Should the TGE have a battleship? (from "Fleets" )

[Braden Campbell]

In the Phase World Sourcebook, CJ claims that the Kreeghor favour dreadnoughts over battleships, but the math doesn't work (I know, I know, what else is new?)

If there are only 23 Doombringers, then how does the TGE defend itself against the other navies who have thousands if not tens of thousands of Battle ships. it's all well and good to have a big scary star destroyer, but if you're outnumbered that badly, it's the end of your regime.

So, I'm thinking that the TGE needs a battle ship. Something to fill the gap between the Smasher and the Doombringer. Thoughts?

[Braden Campbell]

Stupid polling option....

Ignore the duplicate, guys.

[Carl Gleba]

Go for it!

Fleets change all the time. Maybe the old regime liked just the Dreadnoughts. Now this latest emperor wants more battle ships. Sounds plausible to me.

Carl

[Braden Campbell]

Carl... did you vote for handwavium?

[Jefffar]

I say the Kreeghor mindset is more accurately reflected by the use of Cruisers and Dreadnaughts rather than Battleships and Carriers.

If you want to liven up their fleet a bit, why not make an older model of Dreadnaught that is avaialble in numbers, but is not as powerfull as the Doombringer?

[Braden Campbell]

If you want to liven up their fleet a bit, why not make an older model of Dreadnaught that is avaialble in numbers, but is not as powerfull as the Doombringer?

That's a great idea!. Thanks, Jeffar. (BTW>>> you probably just added three or four MORE pages onto this thing )

And as for adding more dreadnoughts: the numbers are kept low for a reason, and when Fleets is read in its entirety, I hope you will see how I have incorporated the canon low numbers so that they kind of make sense.

[Carl Gleba]

Carl... did you vote for handwavium?

Nope. I don't even know what a handwavium is


Carl

[KLM]

If there are only 23 Doombringers, then how does the TGE defend itself against the other navies who have thousands if not tens of thousands of Battle ships.

How did you get to that opinion?

There are less than 100 CCW battleships...

Adios
KLM

[Braden Campbell]

How did you get to that opinion?

There are less than 100 CCW battleships...

Oh... there are a LOT more ships running around than you think, my friend.
______________________________________________
Just How Big Are These Fleets?

There has never been a reliable census of any of the major fleets. There are simply so many ships, spread so far apart from their home ports, that all political leaders can do is take an educated guess based on production numbers. If a ship is destroyed or disappears in the Anvil Galaxy, the CAF HQ on Goldielox will hear about it two months after the fact… if anyone reported it at all. But in order to provide a guideline as to the number of ships that can be fielded by a unified star system, we use population as a measure.

To achieve the total fleet strengths for the various power blocs shown below, their entire population was divided by six billion; the assumption being that for every six billion citizens, 350 capital ships can be built. What we end up with is a mind-boggling number of starships.

One must remember, however, that space is big. The Corkscrew Galaxy alone is eight-tenths the size of our own Milky Way. That puts its stellar density at roughly 18 billion stars. Though huge numerically, the major fleets are spread very thin. Core systems will have substantial numbers of ships nearby. Using the scale below, for example, a solar system with 6 billion people in it could field 17 Dreadnoughts, 122 Cruisers, and 210 Frigates…plus fighters. (Terra Prime alone can sustain 10 times these numbers!) Outback planets, far from the hustle and bustle of galactic life, might only have two or three capital ships…if any.

Incidentally, these estimates are based upon the current fleet strengths of the various nations on Earth.


System Population Fleet Size Available*
10 million 60
50 million 90
250 million 150
1.25 billion 225
6.25 billion 350
*These are numbers of capital ships only. Space fighters are not included.


So now that we have a total number of ships to work with, we can break them down further into their various classes. When the overall fleets in The Three Galaxies are examined, it is found that the majority consists of frigate classes, either freighters or destroyers. These ships are easier to build than cruisers and dreadnoughts, and are more economical for the Independent Systems.

Ship Class Percentage of Fleet
Frigates 60%
Cruisers 35%
Flagships 5%

Approx. Fleet sizes (using above formula)
Consortium – 19,839 Flagships, 142,374 Cruisers, 245,070 Frigates
Transgalactic - 17,000 Flagships, 122,000 Cruisers, 210,000 Frigates
Golgan Republik - 5,661 Flagships, 40, 626 Cruisers, 69,930 Frigates
UWW – 1,411 Flagships, 10,126 Cruisers, 17,430 Frigates
*Splugorth Kingdoms – 187 Flagships, 1342 Cruisers, 2310 Frigates
**Altess Dynasty – 0 flagships, 1200 Cruisers, 2000 Frigates

*These numbers are a total of all four Kingdoms, and may not be accurate in the least.
** The Altess numbers are the exception to the rule. Because there are only 1 million Armoria officers, the remainder of the fleet is staffed by robots. Thus, while their population is low, they are able to field an impressive number of ships. These statistics do not include the vast numbers of mercenaries the Dynasty could hire if it had to.
__________________________________________________________

The spacing on the percentge charts might be off due to my cut-and-paste, but you get the idea.

[KLM]

Oh, we got back to an old thread...

Now, either ditch the "23 Doombringer" idea or expand
the statistics of the Doombringer.

Alternative solutions are intruducing an earlier TGE
dreadnought... A smaller one. A battleship, if you like.

EDITED: Since the Free World Council virtually depends
on the "23 Doombringers, one is captured by the Rebels"
idea, go for smaller, older dreadnoughts. Battleships if you
like.

-----------------------------
Hmm... I would say that the UWW does not have "flagships",
but a vastly greater number of frigates - except of course, if
we count the Asteroid Eaters as "flegships".

Same for the Altess - they can afford a vastly greater number
of ships.


Adios
KLM

[Braden Campbell]

Already done.

Soon to be unveiled: the Executioner-class Battleship.

And the prototype Phase Cruiser...

[Jefffar]

Brandon, nice math for comming up with ship numbers, here are my thoughts.

1) A space craft is much more expensive to design, build and maintain than a naval warship. Also, those ships described as capital ships in the Phase World settings are much larger than naval ships of a similar class. In short, I don't think there as many as you are contending there should be. I think you could divide the numbers you have by 10 and be much closer to the ballpark.

2) You seem to be working on the principle that all collectives in the Galaxy think the same way on the optimal fleet strength ratios.

So a Human thinks like an Elf thinks like a Dwarf thkinks like a Wolfen thinks like a Golgan thinks like a Kreeghor . . . I don't think so. You should compare a lsit of what the US Navy uses for ship classification and what the former Soviet Navy uses, you'll find out that the Soviets had no frigates or destroyers in their classification system.

For example, the Kreeghor seem to put an incredible empahasis on small, well armed ships that can hit as units rather than heavy duty ships of the line that act independantly or lead battle groups. Additionally, they seem to make every ship a combatant first and foremost, then worry about what it transports. The result is a fleet that is very frigate heavy.

So, here is how my Kreeghoor fleet would look (approximate numbers):

2 000 Ships of the Line
10 000 Cruisers & Destroyers
40 000 Frigates & Patrol Ships

Now as for what would be in each class:

Frigates & Patrol Ships: Obviously the Beserker is the main type here. The Frigate is used in large numbers for several reasons:
First, the design is realtively straightforward (Big engines, lots of missiles) making it cheap to produce.
Second, because the Kreeghor government produces so few of the bigger classes, they can produce many more frigates. Each Dreadnaught they don't make, means about a hundred frigates ready for use.
Third, the TGE is so large, that in order to show a pressence in all areas and adequately patrol their borders agaisnt smuggers and spies, they need more ships, rather than bigger ships.

Cruisers & Destroyers: Again at this level, the Kreeghoor fleet maintains a standard, easily produced model, the Smasher

Ships of the Line: Here the Kreeghor begin to depart from their "pure combat" mentality somewhat and include a number of specialized classes that in the CAF would be considered heavy cruisers:

Dreadnaughts: These mammoth ships are as much for psychological impact as they are for combat effectiveness. There should be only 1 - 2 hundred of the older and newer classes. They are generally kept well away from active fighting, except in the case of an actual invasion.
Instead the Kreeghor prefer to have their Dreadnaughts appear, suddenly, above rebellious or potentially rebellious worlds, blotting out the sun. The show of force is often enough to win the battle without firing . . . though most Kreeghor commanders will still open fire anyway.

Battle Cruiser: Rather than a true battleship, the Kreeghor employ a particularly large and powerful cruiser class vessel in this role. The resulting ship is not quite a battleship in terms of size or armour, but it has the firepower of one and is slightly faster. 1 on 1 agaisnt a battleship, it's not likely to win, but a single battle cruiser can devatate a fleet of cruisers and frigates.

Battle Carrrier: Again, rather than use a true carrier design, the Kreeghoor employ what is essentially an extra large cruiser to transport their fighterwings. Despite technically being a cruiser in terms of weapons and armour, the type has a fairly large fighter compliment. Of course, as the Kreeghor value the direct combat capability of their ships, the Battle Carrier is quite well armed on it's own, as good as any other heavy cruiser.

Tender: This is is a uniquely Kreeghoor class. The Tender is used to support the large fleets of frigates. While armed and armoured like a cruiser, the Tender's biggest asset is it's abillity to dock with dozens of Beserker frigates, helping to resupply them, give the crew a chance to relax and do repairs. The Tender is also equipped with a very powerful FTL system, allowing it to haul it's docked frigates rapidly around TGE space, increasing the effective range and speed with which the frigates can opperate. Finally, the Tender has a reasonably large fighter wing for support of it's Frigates.

Assault Ship: Like the Battle Carrier and the Tender, the Assault Ships of the TGE are basically large vessels with cruiser armament and the abillity to carry large numbers of ships. In the Assault Ship's case, the pirmary role is as a planetary invasion support vessel. These ships carry a large numbers of troops and Rain of Death transport shuttles. They also have heavy space-to-surface weaponry for "battlefield preparation" (destroying defences) and "hearts and minds" (destroying cities) fire missions.

Just my thoughts.

[Braden Campbell]

When thinking in terms of sheer numbers of vessels... I still have a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that even 19,000 flagships is still a tiny drop in the bucket when compared to how much SPACE the setting includes.

These fleets are incredibly spread out. At 19,000 flagship, you'd still be lucky to have 1 or two Protectors within a single solar system.

[Drakenred®™©]

(SIGH)

I wish people would realise that the original Dreadnaughts WERE battleships, that were themselves replaced by the "new" Battleships of WWII.

Bascialy the way fleet designs wents you had

"Pre-dreadnaught "Battlships which were a mixed mess of gun sizes

the Dreadnaught herself which lead to what I call the "Dreadnaught Battleships (Basicaly any ship with one grade of heavy and "anti torpedo boat" guns(usualy 5-6 inches) with the ligher armament still in casements

"post dreadnaught Battleships" ships that moved the secondary guns to turrets and got rid of the casemated guns all together followed by

"modern" battleships that included Air defense in the design and not as a refit or after thought.

[Drakenred®™©]

sorry its just a gripe I have where a lot of game designers will toss out "Crusiers" and "battleships" that are little more than cheep cannon foder to masive Escorts (aparently to the . . .) and Destroyers, with "Dreadnoughts" tossed in someplace well before you get to the "Destroyers" "super Destroyers" and whatever else they decide to call the next big ship they come up with.

[KLM]

(SIGH)

I wish people would realise that the original Dreadnaughts WERE battleships, that were themselves replaced by the "new" Battleships of WWII.

Nice thought. But...

...how much impact the HMS Dreadnought have in the Three Galaxies?

If the timeline is paralell (ie. time flows in the 3Gs in the rate as it
flows on Rifts Earth), it means when the HMS Dreadnought was first
conceived, there were gaint starships, dubbed dreadnoughts around
for like thousands of years.

Besides, just research, what the terms frigate meant in Earth's naval
history in different time periods.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Brandon, nice math for comming up with ship numbers, here are my thoughts.

1) A space craft is much more expensive to design, build and maintain than a naval warship. Also, those ships described as capital ships in the Phase World settings are much larger than naval ships of a similar class. In short, I don't think there as many as you are contending there should be. I think you could divide the numbers you have by 10 and be much closer to the ballpark.

viewtopic.php?t=48533

So, I have some numbers to back up, or even superseed Branden.

Cruisers & Destroyers: Again at this level, the Kreeghoor fleet maintains a standard, easily produced model, the Smasher

Ships of the Line: Here the Kreeghor begin to depart from their "pure combat" mentality somewhat and include a number of specialized classes that in the CAF would be considered heavy cruisers:

Pardon me, but the Smasher is already a departing from the
"pure combat" mentality, as it is more like an armed carrier,
supporting Berserkers, than a combat cruiser.

Adios
KLM

[Jefffar]

KLM:

The Smasher design is a combat first design. It's Guns, Missiles, Shields and Armour. It has a moderate sized fighter group and naval infantry force, but that's quite small compared to other ships of it's class.

As for your numbers, you don't seem to include spending on crew training, ship maintenace, star fighters, power armour, combat robots, tanks, air fighters, military bases, orbital defence stations and similar.

Yeah for the budget you outline you can buy 250 Hunters and 25 Warshields . . . but they won't have any starfighters, power armour, combat robots, shuttles or crews.

You also have a tax rate of 50 000 credits a citizen going on. I know I can't afford to pay the government 50 000 dollars a year, can you? Good thing you are buying all those starships, your government is going to need a place to hide when the revolution comes. Not only is the tax rate exhorberant, the populace is not seeing any benefit, just some nice shiney spaceships (which have no starfighters, power armour, combat robots, shuttles or crews).

I'd be interested to see how much a portion of the US Navy's budget it spends on aquiring new ships versus all the other stuff it does. I'm betting it's not all that much.

[Drakenred®™©]

(SIGH)

I wish people would realise that the original Dreadnaughts WERE battleships, that were themselves replaced by the "new" Battleships of WWII.

Nice thought. But...

...how much impact the HMS Dreadnought have in the Three Galaxies?

Quite a bit actualy, considering that the class is Dreadnaught, Not Doombringer(the class name) that and aparently Humans have been around in the three galaxies, Speak english, and have knoweldge of 20th centurey and early 19th century earth

[Jefffar]

Sci-fi writers usually haeva pretty loose grasp on Naval terminolgy, which they subsequently twist to their own dramatic purposes.

I am fully aware that a Dreadnaught is a class of battleship, but the term Dreadnaught sounds so imposing that I can agree with describing an entire ship type with the term.

I am also aware that a cruiser is signifigantly more capable than a destroyer . . . but I still think the Imperial Star Destroyer makes for one of the most intimidating sounding sci-fi spaceships ever.

[KLM]

KLM:

The Smasher design is a combat first design. It's Guns, Missiles, Shields and Armour. It has a moderate sized fighter group and naval infantry force, but that's quite small compared to other ships of it's class.

Yeah, the Smashers contingent of 36 Flying Fangs is quite small to the
Warshield's 12 fighters and 2 Battlerams. And the Warshield has
3 times as much armor, and almost twice as much shields as the
Smasher.
You are... wrong. Do the math again.

As for your numbers, you don't seem to include spending on crew training, ship maintenace, star fighters, power armour, combat robots, tanks, air fighters, military bases, orbital defence stations and similar.

Just about 90% of the budget.

Yeah for the budget you outline you can buy 250 Hunters and 25 Warshields . . . but they won't have any starfighters, power armour, combat robots, shuttles or crews.

Just 95% of the total hardware goes for anything else, then
those 250+25 ships.

READ AGAIN!!!!!

You also have a tax rate of 50 000 credits a citizen going on. I know I can't afford to pay the government 50 000 dollars a year, can you? Good thing you are buying all those starships, your government is going to need a place to hide when the revolution comes. Not only is the tax rate exhorberant, the populace is not seeing any benefit, just some nice shiney spaceships (which have no starfighters, power armour, combat robots, shuttles or crews).

I'd be interested to see how much a portion of the US Navy's budget it spends on aquiring new ships versus all the other stuff it does. I'm betting it's not all that much.

Here:
viewtopic.php?t=48533

BladeWeaver wrote, on the 25th of October, 2005:

Googled the following : The U.S. military Budget request for fiscal year 2005 is $420.7 BILLION Dollars. This is almost as much as the rest of the world combined.

US GDP 2005 = $11,750,000,000,000

Now, since you seem to be bad at math the US spends 3,5 percent
of its GDP on military purposes. The US GDP/person is (calculation
witn 246 million citizens) is: 47764,22764 USD.

And the USA is not an FTL capable civilisation, with advanced
robotics, and with the means to mine a solar system.

So, go back, read, calculate...

...and apologise.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

(SIGH)

I wish people would realise that the original Dreadnaughts WERE battleships, that were themselves replaced by the "new" Battleships of WWII.

Nice thought. But...

...how much impact the HMS Dreadnought have in the Three Galaxies?

Quite a bit actualy, considering that the class is Dreadnaught, Not Doombringer(the class name) that and aparently Humans have been around in the three galaxies, Speak english, and have knoweldge of 20th centurey and early 19th century earth

Humans crashed on Terra Prime 10K years ago, spent like
5000 years of forgetting and redeveloping FTL. DMB 2, page 55.
(It is plausible, that while clubbing each other with stone axes,
those men were clinging to lord Jellicoe's "all big gun" theory...
Yeah, right.)

Now check page 96 - Dominator were wiped out 50K years ago.
Check page 162 - "some very old record's indicate shape-shifting
dreadnoughts."

So what? It looks like some weird aliens (wait a sec... In the three
galaxies WE ARE THE ALIENS!) build a huge starship, and then
comes a squishy human, attaches a label on in, and then claims
the concept as a human mind's jewel.

Oh, come on...

Adios
KLM

[Braden Campbell]

Why don't I just write my article the way I want to, and you guys can change whatever you want afterwards...

[Carl Gleba]

Why don't I just write my article the way I want to, and you guys can change whatever you want afterwards...

Dude, weclome to the world of being a writer.


Carl

[LunarYoma]

Branden. like what you have shown so far. i se eth ekreegor having more powerful smaller ships.

not for the CCW, i see each of the major races(counting the humans, noro & wolfen) haveing their own mentality to what they would produce.

Wolfen(being very warlike, but honorable) would produce a very large number destroyers & having 1 carrier per every 100 destroyers. Having 1 cruiser per every 1000 destroyers(acting purely as command ships). Frigates & patrol ships acting as armed escorts/patroling/ & scouting. Basic military tactic is hunting in packs(4 to 10 destroyers grouped together for offensive purposes).

Humans(being somewhat warlike, expansionist, havinig the 'speak softly but cary a bit stick mentality') producing a more blanced out line in building ships. thinking to how ships are produced & used in star trek for an eays example. cruisers doubling as exploration, & war vessels. having a small but very deadicated force of destroyers(all crew members being a min of 8th level, or min of 10 years of service). then having a very large number of frigates acting as patrol vessels, scouting ships, & doubling as escort duty fo rthe cruisers & destroyers.

Noro(being peaceful minded) having a few cruisers. having 10 destroyers per eveyr 1 cruiser. also having 500 to 1000 frigates per every 1 cruiser.


the UWW i see having no dreadnoughts at all. also eahc race brining their races uniqueness to what is being built for the UWW.

Dwarves use brute force appraach on their ships. meaning destroyers sized ships with firepower approaching that of a cruiser & small number of fighters per ship. then bringing allt he ships in mass once enemy is found. their planetoids/asteroid eaters, also doubling with the firepower & star ship numbers/support being equal to 1 to 10 kreegor dreadnoughts.

elves having numerious ships(comparable to the minbary of bablyon 5), with bonuses in manuverability, but less overall fire power(when ships being comapred to the human ships of the CCW).

[KLM]

Why don't I just write my article the way I want to, and you guys can change whatever you want afterwards...

For my part, I only point out already written stuff, because
I've seen "settings" (RPG Worlds) fall apart, because writers
were so enamored by thier ideas, that they crammed it into
the setting, whether it made sense or not.

And I do not want it to happen to the Three Galaxies - therefore
I point out "canon".

Besides, now there are just like 3 or 4 guys picking on you.
As soon as you writing comes out printed, hundreds will
dissect it. Without anaestetic

(IMO brainstorming over an idea is good, as long as
there are not too many voices)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

LunarYoma: You are assuming too much for racial mindset.
Except for the TGE/kreeghor each races is as diversified
as we, humans.
Even the kreeghors tend to have diversity, but they are under
a totaliarian regime for 4000+ years.

Adios
KLM

[Braden Campbell]

[So could anyone give a definition of dreadnaughts in the 3 galaxies?

Sure.
___________________________________________
Dreadnought: Any ship capable of FTL propulsion with a mass over 60 million tons, but less than 120 million tons, and an overall length of no more than 16,000 feet.
_______________________________________________________

Anything bigger requires a new technological breakthrough in engine design in order for it to move (not likely to happen any time soon).

[Jefffar]

Why don't I just write my article the way I want to, and you guys can change whatever you want afterwards...

And that's the way you should do it. The rest of us are just armchair quarterbacking.

We have got 3 basic cruiser designs. A Warshield has 12 fighters, lets assume a Battleram' space (cca 2200 m3) can be traded for 3 Katanas (cca 650 m3), thats 18 fighters altogether. PAs can be stored in a larger garderobe, so they cannot be traded for a fighter. Plus 40 marines and "a robot squadron of 12" (BTW what is this: 12 dyna-bot like drones or what?) Thats 18 fighters, 10 PAs, 40 (52?) troops.
Smasher: 36 fighters, 200 troops
Ironship: 48 fighters, 150 troops

Thanks for the correction, I somehow recalled the Warshield having a substantially larger fighter group. I remembered the Smasher had 36 and the Ironship had 48, but for some reason had the Warshield at 60 - 72 fighters. Unfortunately I do my posting well seperated from my books, so going back for a fact check is often a hassle.


I went back and re-read the PW: Fleets and military spending and military spending thread.

Then I re-read it again.

And one more time with a scratch pad.

Finally the numbers made sense.

I don't know why, but the European habit of seperating digits with a "." instead of a " " or a ", " always throws my math off.

[Jefffar]

__________________________________________
Dreadnought: Any ship capable of FTL propulsion with a mass over 60 million tons, but less than 120 million tons, and an overall length of no more than 16,000 feet.
_______________________________________________________

So why does it have to be FTL capable?

Isn't it possible to have ships of Frigate and Destroyer and Cruiser and Battleshipa nd Carrier and Dreadnaught capability but designed for in system use and not possessing FTL?

[Braden Campbell]

I guess because at sublight speeds, it would take you years to repell invaders at the edge of your solar sytem.

If the TGE, for example, wanted to set up shop on Mars, our Earth marine force would arrive to take the fight to the Kreghor 9 months after they showed up.

Without even 1 light year per hour FTL, you are trapped on your home planet. Invaders can just take over the rest of your solar system, and dont even have to bother with you.

A dreadnought that cannot move at FTL speeds is a space station.

[KLM]

I went back and re-read the PW: Fleets and military spending and military spending thread.

Then I re-read it again.

And one more time with a scratch pad.

Finally the numbers made sense.

I take it as an apology.

Now, it is my turn, so pardon me if I stepped on someone's
toes.

Case dismissed for my part - back to business.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

BladeWeaver wrote, on the 25th of October, 2005:

Googled the following : The U.S. military Budget request for fiscal year 2005 is $420.7 BILLION Dollars. This is almost as much as the rest of the world combined.

US GDP 2005 = $11,750,000,000,000

Now, since you seem to be bad at math the US spends 3,5 percent
of its GDP on military purposes. The US GDP/person is (calculation
witn 246 million citizens) is: 47764,22764 USD.

And the USA is not an FTL capable civilisation, with advanced
robotics, and with the means to mine a solar system.


Adios
KLM

Don't forget that GDP per person is not how much the government taxes them, it's just how much wealth the US has on average per person according to the Gross Domestic Product. So, tossing that number out there (with an outdated population number) really doesn't do anything to prove your point.
[/quote]

Errr... While I am ready to admit, that it was the statistical
probability, that I passed from Economics in College, but....

Bladeweaver's stats show, that the US goverment spent
like 3,5% of its GDP on the military budget. Now, I am
not interested in the question, that how this pile of dollars
is related to federal budget.

Plus... Wikipedia estimated "GDP per capita 43555 USD" which
is well within my margin of error (ie. a 50000 Cr GDP per capita
is still plausible for an FTL capable civilisation, guessimation
for actual value of the USD and the Intergalactic Credit is
accounted in ).

So, as far as I see, we got back to my opening post in the
forum below:
viewtopic.php?t=48533

I guess any further discussion regarding economics in the
Three Galaxies is invalid in this topic (Sorry Braden)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To contribute to the topic, my dreadnought definiton:
Dreadnought: Any warship capable of FTL propulsion with a mass over 60 million tons, but less than 120 million tons, and an overall length of no more than 16,000 feet.

And just a question:
A "thing" with guns and fighters, with FTL and measuring
like 150 million tons, with mining and manufacturing capabilities
(or more likely repair, rearm and generally service capabilities
for up to cruiser class ships)... Yeah, an Asteroid Eater converted
to be a mobile base... So what is it's designation?

Adios
KLM

[glitterboy2098]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To contribute to the topic, my dreadnought definiton:
Dreadnought: Any warship capable of FTL propulsion with a mass over 60 million tons, but less than 120 million tons, and an overall length of no more than 16,000 feet.

And just a question:
A "thing" with guns and fighters, with FTL and measuring
like 150 million tons, with mining and manufacturing capabilities
(or more likely repair, rearm and generally service capabilities
for up to cruiser class ships)... Yeah, an Asteroid Eater converted
to be a mobile base... So what is it's designation?

Deathstar.


and IIRC, asteroid eaters do have sublight drives, as well as FTl ability (well, using Rift drives.)

[Braden Campbell]

Uh... yeah. "Star Fort" is maybe the best I can think of right now.

Who would like to see the Dominators fleshed out in this thing too? stats for a Dominator Star Fort? It wouldn't be pretty...

[LunarYoma]

And just a question:
A "thing" with guns and fighters, with FTL and measuring
like 150 million tons, with mining and manufacturing capabilities
(or more likely repair, rearm and generally service capabilities
for up to cruiser class ships)... Yeah, an Asteroid Eater converted
to be a mobile base... So what is it's designation?

Adios
KLM

i normally call them mobile planetoids.

but if ya using the dwarven asteroid eaters as mobile offensive weapons platforms, then i would have to agree with calling them 'star forts' or 'star fortresses'

[Vrykolas2k]

Go for it!

Fleets change all the time. Maybe the old regime liked just the Dreadnoughts. Now this latest emperor wants more battle ships. Sounds plausible to me.

Carl

Or, maybe it's the opposite and they're just now starting to crank up dreadnought production...

[Braden Campbell]

I think all the Phase World "dreadnoughts" are super carriers... so yes, with that much room, why not put some space fighters on board?

[Ice Dragon]

I'm missing the destroyers, corvettes, system patrol ships etc.

Also tankers, (armed) troop transports or defense station would be nice.

[Jefffar]

That's no moon, it's a battle station.

I'm also in agreement that the speed in space of starships is horribly nerfed.

In Robotech at least the sublight speeds were between 0.15 and 0.2 C