Primary vs Secondary

[Guest]

I can't find what actual difference there is between primary and secondary martial arts forms - when a character is allowed two martial arts, what is the downside about the secondary one that makes it secondary?
What am I missing in the book (N&SS revised)

There is no downside. A primary martial art is simply the first one selected by your character (fairly moot in the "revised" edition, since only the DMA and NPCs can get more than one style). The actual difference is listed on page 81, under Martial Art Terms: Exclusive.

[Sentinel]

We all wish that Kuseru would take over N&SS, and get all his stuff published in a canon Palladium book, and straighten out the Martial Mess.

If it were up to me, Exclusive Styles would be re-written and would count as two styles each (but their re-writes would actually make worthwhile to do so).

[Guest]

We all wish that Kuseru would take over N&SS, and get all his stuff published in a canon Palladium book, and straighten out the Martial Mess.

That should be "books."

If it were up to me, Exclusive Styles would be re-written and would count as two styles each (but their re-writes would actually make worthwhile to do so).

I don't think I can agree. Exclusive styles should be more powerful than the other styles, certainly, but not twice as powerful in overall terms.

[Sentinel]

We all wish that Kuseru would take over N&SS, and get all his stuff published in a canon Palladium book, and straighten out the Martial Mess.

That should be "books."

If it were up to me, Exclusive Styles would be re-written and would count as two styles each (but their re-writes would actually make worthwhile to do so).

I don't think I can agree. Exclusive styles should be more powerful than the other styles, certainly, but not twice as powerful in overall terms.

Well, if they are going to count as two selections (like Thai Kickboxing and Ninjutsu), then it should be worth it to the player, as well as the GM who makes the NPC opponents for them.

[Guest]

Well, if they are going to count as two selections (like Thai Kickboxing and Ninjutsu), then it should be worth it to the player, as well as the GM who makes the NPC opponents for them.

I found it rather odd that Muay Thai counted as two selections myself, especially in the "revised" edition where it's not significantly more powerful than something like Tae Kwon Do (which isn't even exclusive). The original "Ninjitsu" certainly deserved the cost, as it pretty much provided the same material as two martial art styles though.

[Sentinel]

Well, if they are going to count as two selections (like Thai Kickboxing and Ninjutsu), then it should be worth it to the player, as well as the GM who makes the NPC opponents for them.

I found it rather odd that Muay Thai counted as two selections myself, especially in the "revised" edition where it's not significantly more powerful than something like Tae Kwon Do (which isn't even exclusive). The original "Ninjitsu" certainly deserved the cost, as it pretty much provided the same material as two martial art styles though.

I am in agreement about Muay Thai (Thai Kickboxing) being not worth two styles.
I wondered about Hwarang Do and Aikido, as well as Wu Shu Tsung, Tien Hsueh, and Wui Wing Chun. They could almost be worth it, but they aren't quite there.
I had been toying with adding Weapon Katas to Aikido (WP : Short Staff, and WP: Bokken), to help round it out a little more.
I would like to see more holds/joint locks in Hwarang do as well.

While flipping through the selection of styles in N&SS, I was struck with how few arts provide the combination of Body Hardening and Martial Arts Techniques. Increasing the choices in selecting a Martial Arts power would also help Exclusive styles a bit more worth it.

[Guest]

Well, if they are going to count as two selections (like Thai Kickboxing and Ninjutsu), then it should be worth it to the player, as well as the GM who makes the NPC opponents for them.

I found it rather odd that Muay Thai counted as two selections myself, especially in the "revised" edition where it's not significantly more powerful than something like Tae Kwon Do (which isn't even exclusive). The original "Ninjitsu" certainly deserved the cost, as it pretty much provided the same material as two martial art styles though.

I am in agreement about Muay Thai (Thai Kickboxing) being not worth two styles.
I wondered about Hwarang Do and Aikido, as well as Wu Shu Tsung, Tien Hsueh, and Wui Wing Chun. They could almost be worth it, but they aren't quite there.

Wu Shu Tsung & Hwarang Do certainly fit the bill for being exclusive, but Aikido, Tien Hsueh, and Wui Wing Chun don't quite make it (in fact, Jujutsu has a better shot at being exclusive than Aikido did, oddly enough). Personally, I'm left wondering just what criteria Erick was using when he made some of the styles exclusive and others not...it looks completely random when you sit down and analyze the styles themselves.

I had been toying with adding Weapon Katas to Aikido (WP : Short Staff, and WP: Bokken), to help round it out a little more.

I rewrote it and it's major variants entirely myself (big surprise that, I know).

I would like to see more holds/joint locks in Hwarang do as well.

Talk to Ronin/SeonJin108/Mooyaeja about Korean styles.

While flipping through the selection of styles in N&SS, I was struck with how few arts provide the combination of Body Hardening and Martial Arts Techniques. Increasing the choices in selecting a Martial Arts power would also help Exclusive styles a bit more worth it.

I actually prefer not to do that myself as the choices available help reflect the type of style selected, be it hard/soft, aggressive/passive, internal/external, etc.

[Sentinel]

Quote:
I would like to see more holds/joint locks in Hwarang do as well.
Talk to Ronin/SeonJin108/Mooyaeja about Korean styles.

I have a fair to middling library on Korean styles myself, including Tae Kwon Do, Tang Soo Do, Hapkido, Moo Duk Kwon, and Tae Kyon.

Quote:
While flipping through the selection of styles in N&SS, I was struck with how few arts provide the combination of Body Hardening and Martial Arts Techniques. Increasing the choices in selecting a Martial Arts power would also help Exclusive styles a bit more worth it.
I actually prefer not to do that myself as the choices available help reflect the type of style selected, be it hard/soft, aggressive/passive, internal/external, etc.

I certainly wouldn't go willy-nilly on it, but I think that it wouldn't be unbalancing for a style that offered Body Hardenings to offer MATs (for Tamashiwara, for example), or for a style that granted Specialty Katas (with no restrictions as to weapons) to allow for MATs (for Iaijutsu, or One Hit/etc).

I found it a little silly that Shaolin Kung Fu states in the description that the bonuses can be used with weapons, yet it offers no Weapons Kata.

I personally hate the way certain styles got termed "Martial Arts Powers" in Rifts: China II.
And the way that most of the styles do not offer a complete syllabus of moves (punches, kicks, etc).

[Guest]

I certainly wouldn't go willy-nilly on it, but I think that it wouldn't be unbalancing for a style that offered Body Hardenings to offer MATs (for Tamashiwara, for example), or for a style that granted Specialty Katas (with no restrictions as to weapons) to allow for MATs (for Iaijutsu, or One Hit/etc).

I found it a little silly that Shaolin Kung Fu states in the description that the bonuses can be used with weapons, yet it offers no Weapons Kata.

Sure it does, you can select Special Kata with no limitation on selecting weapon kata.

I personally hate the way certain styles got termed "Martial Arts Powers" in Rifts: China II.

I still maintain that was simply a way to bypass the "only get one hand to hand skill" rule...which was made pretty moot in that book since the Nei Chia Wu Shih gets two anywya (in addition to the so called "Mystic Martial Art Power").

And the way that most of the styles do not offer a complete syllabus of moves (punches, kicks, etc).

Rifts China 2 came across more as a munchkin fest than anything else sadly. Lots of great ideas, but the execution of them almost demands the execution of the executors.

[Sentinel]

I certainly wouldn't go willy-nilly on it, but I think that it wouldn't be unbalancing for a style that offered Body Hardenings to offer MATs (for Tamashiwara, for example), or for a style that granted Specialty Katas (with no restrictions as to weapons) to allow for MATs (for Iaijutsu, or One Hit/etc).

I found it a little silly that Shaolin Kung Fu states in the description that the bonuses can be used with weapons, yet it offers no Weapons Kata.

Sure it does, you can select Special Kata with no limitation on selecting weapon kata.

I meant that the style itself (unlike Te, or Zanji,) does not include weapons in the forms' training.

I personally hate the way certain styles got termed "Martial Arts Powers" in Rifts: China II.

I still maintain that was simply a way to bypass the "only get one hand to hand skill" rule...which was made pretty moot in that book since the Nei Chia Wu Shih gets two anywya (in addition to the so called "Mystic Martial Art Power").

And the way that most of the styles do not offer a complete syllabus of moves (punches, kicks, etc).

Rifts China 2 came across more as a munchkin fest than anything else sadly. Lots of great ideas, but the execution of them almost demands the execution of the executors.

Has Erick W. ever gotten more personal martial arts training beyond that Green Belt he claimed to have?
Sometimes, I wonder what his inspirational influences are...

[Mantisking]

Originally posted by Sentinel.
I meant that the style itself (unlike Te, or Zanji,) does not include weapons in the forms' training.

Just because it's not mentioned, doesn't mean it's not there. At the very least Shaolin should train in the main quartet - staff, broadsword, spear, and straight sword - and some of the other eighteeen weapons.

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by Sentinel.
I meant that the style itself (unlike Te, or Zanji,) does not include weapons in the forms' training.

Just because it's not mentioned, doesn't mean it's not there. At the very least Shaolin should train in the main quartet - staff, broadsword, spear, and straight sword - and some of the other eighteeen weapons.

And those weapons should be included in the Skills Included In Training for Shaolin.

My home-brew re-writes give Shaolin the WPs for Staff, Paired Short Swords, Whipchain, and Pair: Sword and Whipchain.
I give Te the Nunchaku, Tonfa, Bo, Sai, Kama, and the choice of Shield (tortoise shell) and Dagger; Oar; Polearm (Nunte-Bo); or Fist Loads.

I was working on Kuk Sool Won, but I haven't finished it yet.

[Guest]

Originally posted by Sentinel.
I meant that the style itself (unlike Te, or Zanji,) does not include weapons in the forms' training.

Just because it's not mentioned, doesn't mean it's not there. At the very least Shaolin should train in the main quartet - staff, broadsword, spear, and straight sword - and some of the other eighteeen weapons.

And those weapons should be included in the Skills Included In Training for Shaolin.

My home-brew re-writes give Shaolin the WPs for Staff, Paired Short Swords, Whipchain, and Pair: Sword and Whipchain.
I give Te the Nunchaku, Tonfa, Bo, Sai, Kama, and the choice of Shield (tortoise shell) and Dagger; Oar; Polearm (Nunte-Bo); or Fist Loads.

I was working on Kuk Sool Won, but I haven't finished it yet.

And you haven't submitted these re-writes to the PMAN yet?

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by Sentinel.
I meant that the style itself (unlike Te, or Zanji,) does not include weapons in the forms' training.

Just because it's not mentioned, doesn't mean it's not there. At the very least Shaolin should train in the main quartet - staff, broadsword, spear, and straight sword - and some of the other eighteeen weapons.

And those weapons should be included in the Skills Included In Training for Shaolin.

My home-brew re-writes give Shaolin the WPs for Staff, Paired Short Swords, Whipchain, and Pair: Sword and Whipchain.
I give Te the Nunchaku, Tonfa, Bo, Sai, Kama, and the choice of Shield (tortoise shell) and Dagger; Oar; Polearm (Nunte-Bo); or Fist Loads.

I was working on Kuk Sool Won, but I haven't finished it yet.

And you haven't submitted these re-writes to the PMAN yet?

I wasn't aware that I could.
I figured those contributors were selected from an elite group of dedicated posters.

[Guest]

And those weapons should be included in the Skills Included In Training for Shaolin.

My home-brew re-writes give Shaolin the WPs for Staff, Paired Short Swords, Whipchain, and Pair: Sword and Whipchain.
I give Te the Nunchaku, Tonfa, Bo, Sai, Kama, and the choice of Shield (tortoise shell) and Dagger; Oar; Polearm (Nunte-Bo); or Fist Loads.

I was working on Kuk Sool Won, but I haven't finished it yet.

And you haven't submitted these re-writes to the PMAN yet?

I wasn't aware that I could.
I figured those contributors were selected from an elite group of dedicated posters.

ROFLMAO..."elite" I like that, I don't even use 40-50% of the styles on there (the overall percentage would be higher, but 42% of the styles on there are mine) because they're not that great.

Anyone can submit (though there are some email issues with that currently, until I get outlook updated again) styles to the PMAN. Though I should note that the uber-munchkin-can-do-anything-awesomely styles and incomplete styles will most likely be rejected.

[Sentinel]

Well, if you can recover my posts from here on Luche Libre, Professional Wrestling, and Boxing, feel free to post them up.
I need to actually type my handwritten stuff onto the computer in order to share any of it (which I am happy enough to do).