Nightmaster wrote:Hi guys!
its my debut here in the boards and i want to bring up a idea and a question at the same time
After i have buyed a Rifts: Japan at a old book store, i noticed that some martial arts presented in the N&SS book were presented here as well.
My surprise was twofold. First there was no more chi (but i admit its better) and second the martial arts were divided in two categories: mystical and non mystical martial arts.
You're thinking of Rifts China, not Rifts Japan.
The mystical martial arts were cool, but i noticed they were quite different in some ways compared to the version presented in the N&SS book but in other ways they were the same.
The non-mystical ones on the other hand were really different, at least they were remodeled for the rifts environment. Up to 5 level advancements were different from the N&SS version, either changed completelly or exchanged in position.
Then come my idea: conversion of the martial arts presented in the N&SS book to the format of the Rifts japan.
It's not a new idea,
Creating Quickie Styles to Replace Hand to Hand Martial ArtsThe idea is to make then available for players in the non-mystical forms.
This will make Character more unique in my opinion, but i must admit that i dont have the skills to judge the changes nescessary to make that conversion, so i am here asking for help.
See the previously posted link.
Ps: for those that like me have the N&SS Revised book and will quote the note about the martial arts in N&SS not been available for Rifts players, i must said that its very unlikelly that those martial arts would not survive the coming of the Rifts.
That note has been pretty much rendered moot in Rifts.
Because saying that is like saying that all martial arts schools that exist today in a modern city like Berlin would be destroyed and its masters and teachers hunted down in the first moment the Rifts and the Ley Lines come back to life.
Then my idea is that although much has destroyed during the Coming of the Rifts, there are still ways to find persons that could teach those forgotten styles. Of course that would be difficult to find, but not impossible.
For the martial arts powers presented in the Rifts: Japan book, they are available to characters that get the "Secrets" of his style, learning then from a master somewere in the megaverse.
I say that because not all persons that pratice martial arts have knowledge of the all techniques of his/her style, even after they attained black belt or similar grade in the style. So its possible for two characters have the same style of martial arts, but one was learned the "Secrets" of hys style (mystical form), while the other dont (non-mystical form).
pwhee... quite long for a fist post, but i hope you guys understand my opinion and what i am saying and help me make that conversions.
Yeah, I've already worked through the idea long ago.
Sentinel wrote: [SNIP]
MrNexx wrote:
I built one that I think works well, though I will admit it lacks playtesting.
I am still looking at your system, and will give it some playtesting, time permitting.
On one hand, I agree with Sinestus' findings: a modular system leads to min-maxing. Use the GURPS Martial Arts supplement and you'll see that quickly. There is something to be said for the style that Palladium took with N&SS, which lends itself to a more balanced approach to hand-to-hand combat in the game. While not reflective of reality per se (and really, what game is?), making players select a style based on
style(that is to say, on the flavor of thier fighting style) as opposed to selecting a combat style based on game mechanics and stat mongering is a good thing. There is a certain give and take when selecting a style that players must go through in N&SS. For example: while Tae Kwon Do has great attack types (punches, kicks, jumping and flying kicks) it is weak in terms of mystic martial arts powers, grappling, and weapons. Shaolin Kung Fu is better about grappling, and weapons, although it too lacks substantial mystic disciplines. Tien Hsueh has excellent mystic abilities, but you lose the dynamic manuevers and have fewer attacks per melee. Aikido gives great automatic actions, good for close quarter fighting, but lacks weapon skills, and is more defensive than aggressive which may limit it in some situations. No one style has everything, which is good, and so players must choose the style that truly suits their concept and not merely one that has every kind of attack, power, and additional skills, etc.
I agree Sentinel. I much prefer N&S's martial art system to those of many other games.
Sentinel wrote:The martial arts as presented in Rifts: Japan are good for most characters who have a martial art background but would not possess legendary or mystic abilities from those fighting arts. HtH Karate and HtH Jujustsu are good examples.
I'd also recommend HTH Kung Fu (Rifts Manhunter) ... if it wasn't so limited and the skills from Rifts China, if they weren't so incomplete.
I use the HtH styles of Rifts Japan for my HUII (Heroes Unlimited, 2nd Edition) so that super-powered characters can have martial arts training without getting overloaded with martial arts powers on top of their super abilities. For the true masters of the martial arts, and for non-powered characters who make martial arts the focal point, I use N&SS styles as they are presented.
I personally would prefer that Rifts be converted to N&SS/Mystic China instead of the other way around. Chi is better as a separate realm of power, distinct from PPE and ISP.
Actually, there's more than just the problems of equating Chi to PPE or ISP, more on this later.
I would like to see the rest of the Palladium games adopt the N&SS maneuvers like Parry/Attack, and other specialized moves that (IMHO) make combat more exciting and less bland.
Ditto.
Nightmaster wrote:Well Sentinel, i am not saying that PPE is better than the Chi system, just that for the Rifts game, its better to stick with the PPE/ISP for easy of use only. Adding a 3rd new power source is very complicated at best because of all the OCCs and RCCs that exist in the Rifts game setting.
Actually, it isn't, though the "here's why" will be presented later.
For the part about min-maxing, i disagree. That only occur if the GM and the players are all muchkings, and besides, the overal martial arts presented in the Rifts: Japan are not stat mongering at all.
My idea was to make the martial arts presented at N&SS more like the versions presented are Rifts: Japan. Why? simple.
In N&SS all martial arts are presented in the following format:
Level Advancements:
1st - bonus
2nd - bonus
3rd - +1 martial art power
4th - bonus
...
Not quite, but close enough.
In Rifts: Japan all martial arts are presented in the following format:
Martial arts powers:
one at level 2, 3, 5, 9, 12 and 15
You must have a wildly different copy of Rifts Japan than I do. None of the HTH skills in RJ are so presented. The OCCs on the other hand often have such martial art powers listed as level advancement bonuses.
Level Advancements:
1st - bonus
2nd - bonus
3rd - bonus
4th - bonus
...
Again, not quite, but close enough.
The way they are presented in Rifts: Japan, its now possible for you to have the possibility that diferent characters with the same martial art will not be the same. Some (very few) will have access to the martial arts powers while others (the majority) will not, because his/her respective masters either dindt have the martial art powers to teach or dindt see the character worth of learning the secrets of the style.
Actually, you're describing the difference between N&S styles and RJ's format.
So my objective is to format the styles not presented in Rifts: Japan that are presented in N&SS to allow then to be selected by players. The only problem i have is the fact i am not good to judge what will be placed in the Level Advancements in exchange for the martial arts powers, so i am looking for help by people of this board.
Again, see the link above.
Ps: Sentinel, the only martial arts that were made for the Rifts setting that need to be converted to N&SS format are Hand-to-Hand Commando and Tengujustu. All others are presented in the N&SS books.
*Blink* I take it you're not entirely up on the complete range of Hand to Hand skills available.
Hand-to-Hand: Aggressive and Deadly Combat 04
Hand-to-Hand: Aikido 30
Hand-to-Hand: Arkenas 61
Hand-to-Hand: Aslyl Okta 48
Hand-to-Hand: Assassin 01, 02, 03, 04, 10, 14, 30, 37, 38, 39, 62
Hand-to-Hand: Assassin 13
Hand-to-Hand: ASSASSIN COMMANDO (AGENT) 08
Hand-to-Hand: Basic 01, 02, 03, 04, 10, 14, 30, 32, 34, 37, 38, 39, 62
Hand-to-Hand: BASIC (AGENT) 08
Hand-to-Hand: Blade Master 57
Hand-to-Hand: Bull Fight 01
Hand-to-Hand: Commando 30, 37, 62 (as CS Commando)
Hand-to-Hand: Defensive and Fast Combat 04
Hand-to-Hand: Dog Boxing Kung Fu 27
Hand-to-Hand: Donathair 48
Hand-to-Hand: Dragon Combat 63
Hand-to-Hand: Drunken Style Kung Fu 27
Hand-to-Hand: Eighteen Weapons Kung Fu 27
Hand-to-Hand: Evasive Combat 15
Hand-to-Hand: Expert 01, 02, 03, 04, 10, 14, 30, 32, 34, 37, 38, 39, 62
Hand-to-Hand: EXPERT COMMANDO (AGENT) 08
Hand-to-Hand: Fencing 72
Hand-to-Hand: Foot Ninjitsu 39
Hand-to-Hand: Gladiator 16, 70, 72
Hand-to-Hand: Judo 30
Hand-to-Hand: Jujitsu 30
Hand-to-Hand: Karate 30
Hand-to-Hand: Kendo 30
Hand-to-Hand: Kirndayv'Zhyf (Kirn) 31
Hand-to-Hand: Knight 13
Hand-to-Hand: Kung Fu (Terran) 31
Hand-to-Hand: Long Bowman 13
Hand-to-Hand: Martial Arts 01, 02, 03, 04, 10, 14, 30, 32, 34, 37, 38, 39, 62
Hand-to-Hand: MARTIAL ARTS (AGENT) 08
Hand-to-Hand: Martial Arts Master 04
Hand-to-Hand: Mercenary 13
Hand-to-Hand: Mngutch (Ular) 31
Hand-to-Hand: Monkey Style Kung Fu 27
Hand-to-Hand: Ninjitsu 39
Hand-to-Hand: Ninjitsu/Tai-Jutsu 30
Hand-to-Hand: Nomadic Tribesman 18, 72
Hand-to-Hand: Non-Men of Arms 13
Hand-to-Hand: None 02
Hand-to-Hand: Palladin 13
Hand-to-Hand: Ranger 13
Hand-to-Hand: Shao-Lin Kung Fu 27
Hand-to-Hand: Shtek-iyr (Chiropti) 31
Hand-to-Hand: Slaver/Enforcer/Bounty Hunter 18, 72
Hand-to-Hand: Soldier 13
Hand-to-Hand: Tai-Chi Ch'uan 27
Hand-to-Hand: Talitsu 29
Hand-to-Hand: Tarlok Martial Arts 29
Hand-to-Hand: Teng-Jutsu 30
Hand-to-Hand: Thief 13
Hand-to-Hand: White Jade Fan 27
Hand-to-Hand: Zanji Shinjinken-Ryo (Ryu) 30
Hand-to-Hand: Zanji Shinjinken Ryu 59
Hand-to-Hand: Zero Gravity Combat: Basic 05, 30, 31, 41
Hand-to-Hand: Zero Gravity Combat: Elite 05, 30, 31, 41
Of these; Aikido, Assassin, Basic, Commando, Dog Boxing Kung Fu, Dragon, Drunken Style Kung Fu, Eighteen Weapons Kung Fu, Gladiator, Judo, Jujitsu, Karate, Kendo, Kirndayv'Zhyf (Kirn), Kung Fu (Terran), Martial Arts, Monkey Style Kung Fu, Ninjitsu/Tai-jutsu, None, Shao-Lin Kung Fu, Shtek-iyr (Chiropti), Tai-Chi Ch'uan, Talitsu, Tarlok Martial Arts, Teng-Jutsu, White Jade Fan, Zanji Shinjinken-Ryo (Ryu), Zero Gravity Combat: Basic, and Zero Gravity Combat: Elite, can ALL be found in Rifts.
Sentinel wrote:Well Sentinel, i am not saying that PPE is better than the Chi system, just that for the Rifts game, its better to stick with the PPE/ISP for easy of use only. Adding a 3rd new power source is very complicated at best because of all the OCCs and RCCs that exist in the Rifts game setting.
Chi = P.E. Attribute.
Simple, no?
Every living creature with P.E. has that much Chi.
At LEAST that much Chi, don't forget there's modifiers for some creatures, and not all creatures use P.E. as their base for Chi (particularly entities and undead).
What made things complicated was trying to convert Chi into ISP, or PPE, and re-interpret the martial arts powers as psuedo-psionics, or as psuedo-invocations.
It's much worse than that.
[SNIP]No one says two different practitioners of the same style will choose the same powers as they level up. One might choose Chagi, while another chooses Kanshu. The only thing that is uniform is when they get to select a new power, not what that power will be. Most often characters get to select from more than one catagory of powers: thus one may choose a Martial Arts technique, while another chooses a Body Hardening, or perhaps a Specialty Kata. So, they can still be different.
Strictly speaking, in Rifts all Samurai get new abilities at the same level. They all get the same OCC bonuses. They all get the same selection of martial arts. So, really, you haven't taken the "sameness" away. Especially considering Rifts characters have fewer Martial Arts Powers to choose from in the first place.
The format for Rifts: Japan is more standardized, but that doesn't make it better. Personally, I like the N&SS formatting better.
It depends on what you're trying to do with it.
MrNexx wrote:Sentinel wrote:MrNexx wrote:
I built one that I think works well, though I will admit it lacks playtesting.
I am still looking at your system, and will give it some playtesting, time permitting.
On one hand, I agree with Sinestus' findings: a modular system leads to min-maxing.
This is true; it's somewhat possible to min/max anything, though, even the N&SS styles. My system can't entirely get away from that, I know, especially where multiple martial arts involved (if you focus your bonuses from 1 martial art on initiative, another on general strike, and another on general damage, you're pretty formidible... but, then, you've bought 3 top-of-the-line hand to hand styles, so you should be). However, it also allows people to build styles based on style, rather than Palladium's standard, which locks them into a set progression.
While I agree that there should be some room for customizable progression, Sentinel's points about min/maxing are spot on. Of course, that's relatively easy to get around by making the custumizable section the actual moves/powers/techniques, and have set bonuses that can be learned for those.
Rifts Problems with equating Chi to PPE/ISP.
Rifts Japan
Page 47. Chi M.D. Death Blow: "Note: A "chi" death blow draws on the character's P.P.E. reserve of mystic, inner energy and can be considered a magical attack.
Zanji Shinjinke Ryo "14 Double existing P.P.E. (inner spirit)..."
Page 53. P.P.E. "The ninja's power is derived from an inward focus through meditation and ninjutsu; as a result, they cannot draw on others, ley lines or nexus points for more P.P.E."
Page 55. Chi-Gung: Woo, having trouble keeping their story straight yet once again. This description clearly lists Chi as "inner spirit" and P.P.E. as "mysticism." (Which has to make one wonder how all those Double P.P.E. (inner spirit) level advancement bonuses crept into the book.)
Chi M.D. Death Blow; "A death blow that draws on the character's inner spirit with mega-damage and mystical effect..."
Psionics: "Hours of daily meditation...allows him/her to "tap into" the vast resources of the mind with inner will power (chi)."
Page 59. Chi M.D. Death Blow; "A death blow that draws on the character's inner spirit with mega-damage and mystical effect..."
Page 63. Chi M.D. Death Blow; "A death blow that draws on the character's inner spirit with mega-damage and mystical effect..."
Page 64. Just a clarification note here; "Mystic Body Hardening Exercises ... the body hardening exercises enable the character to draw on mystic energy at a cost of 1 P.P.E. point (thanks to Chi-Gung)..."
Chi M.D. Death Blow; "A death blow that draws on the character's inner spirit with mega-damage and mystical effect..."
Page 197. Chi-Gung Mega-Damage Skin. "Part Chi (inner spirit), part physical training, part mysticism (P.P.E.), chi-gung results....
Zenjoriki Powers. "Zenjoriki are supernormal "Spirit Powers" that draw on myhstic energy...All zenjoriki powers are attained through the mastery of martial arts, meditation and inner spirit (chi). All require the conscious or subconscius channelling of mystic energy (P.P.E.)."
Summary: As we can see, the "difference" or "sameness" of Chi and P.P.E. can't even be kept straight in this book, complicating things further by adding in some clearly psionic abilities and developments from the same source, WITHOUT clarifying the differences in the sources of the three types of energy.
Net Result: Attempting to equate Chi to P.P.E. or I.S.P. fails due to internal inconsistancy.
Rifts China.
Page 7: Asian Meditation vs Western Psionics. Lame justification trying to make Chi = I.S.P. #1. basically all this talk of inward vs outward doesn't mean anything.
Page 8: Magic Spells vs Martial Art Powers. Lame justification trying to make Chi = I.S.P. #2. This one is even better, since if both magic and martial art powers are "both seem to end up with characters throwing around mystic energies..." then Chi = Magic. But this predisposes the energies being thrown around are "mystic" which is to say Magic which is to say P.P.E. If the stated difference is that magic uses PPE and martial art powers use ISP, then the energies aren't mystic.
Hand to Hand Martial Arts vs Mystic Martial Art Powers. Note that Martial Art Powers provide "mystical benefits" hence magic.
Dragon Lines vs Ley Lines. I got a kick out of this. Absolutely no mention of I.S.P. In fact, the description reads more like some of the N&S chi descriptions than even the PPE they try to use. On a more interesting note, since 6 chi can be converted to 1 PPE, the note about dragon lines having less than a single PPE makes things even more interesting. Especially compared with the natural flows listed for Fhu Zhensong in N&S.
Chi. Lame justification trying to make Chi = I.S.P. #3. You have to wonder why the writers try to stress this so much. It's almost like they know there's going to be problems, yet went through with this anyway. This however, is the lamest justification yet. First they try to categorize I.S.P. as "totally internal and mental." Okay, how does that explain the various kinetic abilities? Next they talk about positive and negative energy calling it "Chi/I.S.P." That's extremely interesting since I.S.P. has no negative energy aspect. But then we get "So, in one way Chi is just another way of saying I.S.P., but Chi should also be thought of as spiritual energy, flowing everywhere, and especially as the force behind Mystic Martial Art Powers." From this sentence we get three things that are mutually exclusive. "Chi is another way of saying I.S.P." with nothing to support it (that's right, everything up to this point has not supported this statement." "Chi should also be thought of as spiritual energy" again, with nothing to support it (it flows through the environment, how does that make it spiritual?). Lastly we have "especially as the force behind Mystic Martial Art Powers." Hmm...well we know that Mystic = Magic = P.P.E. so how does this statement justify Chi = I.S.P. Answer: It doesn't, quite the opposite in fact.
Page 9: Dragon Lines. Lame justification trying to make Chi = I.S.P. #4. I personally love this one, since it is a key to letting us do away with Rifts poor handling of Chi. "...Chi (represented as I.S.P.)." What? They aren't the same thing? Amazing. And there you have it folks. Your true answer as to just what's going on here. I.S.P. isn't Chi, it's being used to represent Chi in Rifts China (and doing a bad job of it).
Pages 13-18: China Skills. Many of these are straight up Mystic China conversions, no real problems there. There are several new skills as well, of which only some rate mention.
Hand to Hand Tai-Chi Ch'uan. What's this, "a system for regenerating mystical energy (P.P.E.)" That's interesting with the supposed focus of Rifts China 2 of Chi = I.S.P.
Lore: Feng Shui. A skill that actually deals with Chi, making no mention of I.S.P. or P.P.E. in the description.
Page 19: Ancient Chinese Weapon Proficiencies. Hmm...all four of these work by using "the movement of the weapon to scoop up, redirect, and twist the flow of magical energy to turn a seemingly ordinary weapon into one that can inflict Mega-Damage on demons, dragons and other creatures of magic, supernatural beings and M.D.C. creatures" Then goes on to state "is capable of scooping up enough ambient P.P.E. to do real Mega-Damage." That's pretty unambiguous as far as describing these skills as using magic and PPE.
Pages 19-20: Hand to Hand Tai Chi. Hmm...didn't we just see on page 16 that Tai Chi is supposed to regenerate mystical energy? Yes, we did...why is it there are no PPE based modifiers in the Level Advancement Bonuses for this hand to hand skill? In addition, why are there I.S.P. modifiers listed?
Page 25: Mystic Martial Art Powers of Rifts China. Okay, it's pretty obvious to the MC folks that these are ALL martial art styles, not martial art powers. Also note the special emphasis placed on "Mystic" or "Mystical" throughout the descriptions.
Pages 25-28: Ba Gua Kung Fu. What, the powers are I.S.P. powered, yet "mystical"? Yeah, fundamental breakdown in the established system of PPE and ISP. But wait, what's this, "Ba Gua Map P.P.E. Absorbtion." OOH, I really like this one. It absorbs PPE but converts it to ISP. Funny, I thought psychics converted PPE to ISP permanently to fuel their psychic powers (BTS1 for those of you who don't get the reference). What this whole ability boils down to (as well as some of the later abilities) is PPE fueled psionics. What's the point of even having ISP if it's the same thing as PPE?
Pages 29-30: Gui Long Kung Fu. Awaken Personal Chi Blade. More fun with "Awakened I.S.P. in Chi Blade:" How about "Blade Chi Healing" which uses a flow of Positive Chi to generate healing.
Pages 30-31: Hsien Hsia Kung Fu. This is notable for it's use of I.S.P. based Zenjorike powers. Also note Mind Walk's usage of "pure Chi (pure I.S.P.)," "I.S.P./Chi"and my personal favorite "I.S.P. necessary for healing." Since when has I.S.P. been necessary for healing (Hell, in Spirit West it was P.P.E. that was necessary for healing)? Let's not forget more references to I.S.P. as "spiritual energy." I also like the 15th level advancement bonus that doubles existing P.P.E.
Page 33: Pao Chih. "Living I.S.P." Huh? I also like "various Martial Art Powers, I.S.P. based abilities, and psionics" These are all different now? How interesting. Ooh, I also like the Animus Sense PPE and Dragon Lines ability which senses "The movement or flow of P.P.E., I.S.P. and the even weaker Chi." Oh look, they're all different yet once again. We also get a differentiation between, "I.S.P.-based energy attack" and "magical P.P.E.-based blast." Next we move on to Animus Sense Souls & Spirits, which senses "P.P.E., I.S.P. and Chi..." Let's not forget Detach Animus, with it's ability of "using its Chi senses, and any of the mortal character's Chi Mastery Abilities." What Chi Mastery Abilities? Ooh, I laso like the part about "the physical body of the Pao Chih Master." Maybe they meant "(Pao) Chih Mastery Abilities." Animus Absorb also provides us more PPE->ISP fuel conversion.
Pages 34-35: She Shen Kung Fu. Ooh, "Yin Energy"
Pages 35-37: Tien-Hsueh Kung Fu. I applaud the acupuncture requirement for taking this. Healing Tien Hsueh appears to be an advanced version of N&S's Duatsu, yet I have to wonder why acupuncture has an I.S.P. cost. I also have to wonder how healing and resuscitating the human body provides a chance to do "Cybernetic Device/Engine/Machine Repair, Installation or Removal." For the Touch Mastery Tien-Hsueh Powers in general, I have to wonder why any have an I.S.P. cost. All of these are physical attacks based on the study of the human body. The only exceptions are Electronic Tien-Hsueh (see comment above on how healing humans works with electronics) and Long Distance Tien-Hsueh (which actually makes sense to have a cost value).
Pages 39-40: Xian Pu Kung Fu. Another "Martial Art Power" that stresses the "mystic." "Mystic" Slime that's composed of "psychic energy."
Pages 40-41: Xian Tai Chi Chuan "(Chi Manipulation)". Here's a fun usage, "body's inner Chi (I.S.P.)" But even better is the Note: "While I.S.P. and Chi are essentially the same thing in Rifts China, it's possible for someone like a Xian Tai Chi Master to see the subtle flow of Chi, where I.S.P. is too slight to observe." Hmm..based on the description, this "Mystic Martial Art Power" uses Chi to evoke the Chi Ball, but gathers I.S.P. (I love how I.S.P. has magically become an ambient energy myself). Ooh, I like that Chi Ball Defense, where it acts as a shield against "I.S.P. and magical attacks...can be used to absorb psychic, mystical, spiritual, spectral, or demonic energies and other non-physical attacks." But further goes on to note, "As effective as a Chi Ball might be against Chi, psionics, and magic, it is totally useless as a shield form attacks from physical weapons, bullets, lasers, and (non-magical) energy blasts."
Pages 43-45: Jian Shih. Okay. Power Number 4 is "Trained to Sense and Manipulate Chi" which goes on to define "Chi" as "the life force that exists even in very weak P.P.E. environments" However, this power is actually W.P. Wen Jen (Scholar's Sword) found under skills on page 19. Powers of Meditation is interesting because is stresses "focus all internal energies of the mind (Inner Strength Points) into meditation...and increasing internal sensitivity to the stirring of subtle Chi." You know, this sort of makes sense in a "Cheesy cop out" way. Evidently PB is trying to say that Chi Manipulation in Rifts China is the result of using your psychic powers to attune yourself to the manipulation of Chi. Unfortunately, this has already been broken in multiple places with the evident confusion between just exactly what Chi, psionics, and magic are.
Pages 45-48: Chun Tzu. See Jian Shih for all points already covered. (Pretty much the same here, some class specific differences, not enough to make me cut and paste the Jian Shih stuff and change a couple of words.)
Pages 48-51: Nei Chia Wu Shih. See Jian Shih for all points already covered. (Pretty much the same here, some class specific differences, not enough to make me cut and paste the Jian Shih stuff and change a couple of words.)
Pages 52-54: Wai Chia Wu Shih. Here's a new Hand to Hand Skill...of sorts. Basically this is HTH Tai Chi PLUS Xian Tai Chi with some new powers. The notes for Jian Shih about Trained to Sense and Manipulate Chi and Powers of Meditation apply. In addition, this character gets Psychic abilities.
Pages 54-56: Chi-Gun Seng Ren. What I found interesting is how Chi-Gung is a mystical energy flowing from the spirit but is also a "fountain of Chi-of I.S.P." Actually, looking over the writeup, I don't see Chi at all. This energy would be either Jing or Jing. Yes, that's right, in fact it looks like Erick tried to combine Jing with Jing so they would be one thing instead of two. Confused you haven't I? There's a reason for that. There's two forces of energy in Chinese called Jing. The first is separate and clearly identified as not being Chi, it is Jing, the essence, or more accurately, sperm, where Chi is breath. The second Jing is coiled energy, often used in martial arts to increase the force of blows and other movements. Everything under Chi-Gung Seng Ren pretty much eliminates it as Chi. However Jing could be more easily equated to I.S.P. than Chi.
Pages 63-67: Soothsayer. Under Hand to Hand Martial Arts Skill there is an interesting note. "...no Martial Art Power, but make up for it with intuition and psychic ability." Interesting phrase that. It pretty much eliminates martial art powers as being psionic-based.
Read Chi is also interesting, because we get the mention of Chi Mage (which appeared first in RC1). Unfortunately we've got no real details on Chi Mages in Rifts yet. It will be quite interesting what Erick and Kevin try to do to make this class work in Rifts. Recognize the Face of Evil tries to equate good and bad energy with Chi (I.S.P.) And magical energy (P.P.E), yet there is nothing inherently evil about negative chi, much less magic or psionics.
Pages 67-72: Spirit Host. Born to Sense and Manipulate Chi notes as per Jian Shih.
I particularly love the View Ghost Drama ability. This "Power" is almost a direct cut and paste from Mystic China, changing only the specific wording under saving throw (interestingly, the saving throw is the same as the Chi Magic version of this), pretending it costs I.S.P. instead of P.P.E (without even bothering to change the cost), changing the last sentence of the first paragraph of the description from "This spell" to "This special Psionic power of the Spirt Host" the first few sentences of the second paragraph, combining the third paragraph of the spell into the second paragraph of the ability (and adding an i.e. note into one sentence), and dropping the "As Celestial Calligraphy" note, but NOT the play-test paragraph, including the exact wording on who was using the spell, and that it was cast.
Pages 72-77: Blind Mystic. Yup, the description is pretty much cut and paste from Mystic China. The Chi Sight power is pretty much identical to the original, substituting "Pure Negative Chi" creatures with supernatural beings. In fact, most of the abilities are pretty much cut and paste, with I.S.P. substitutions whenever they try to make the game mechanics work. It's also interesting that they get psychic and magic abilities in addition to their MC-derived powers.
Pages 77-83: Fu Yao Da Chia. See Jian Shih for notes on Mystic Martial Art Power, Trained to Sense and Manipulate Chi, and Powers of Meditation.
Pages 86-91: Goblin Wrangler. See Jian Shih for notes on Trained to Sense and Manipulate Chi and Powers of Meditation
Pages 92-94: Demon Queller Mystic Body Hardening Exercises. Only a few things of note here. One, these aren't really "Mystic" at all. Two, there's some new ones to add to your MC list. Three, Resist Psychic Drain has the most interesting game mechanic, "ignore the forces that fill or drain it (the body) of P.P.E., I.S.P. or Chi." However, the description of this power is pretty much the same as Kangeiko from N&S.
Pages 96-101: Reformed Demon. See Jian Shih for notes on Mystic Martial Art Power (Called Human Martial Art Powers here), Trained to Sense and Manipulate Chi (called Human Sense and Manipualte Chi here), and Powers of Meditation (Called Human Powers of Meditation here). See Hsien Hsia for Mind Walk Power notes. Of interst is the note under P.P.E. that states, "Unlike those indoctrinated in Chinese magic, the Enlightened Demon understands all about sucking the P.P.E. From living beings and blood sacrifices." This is a result of the note on page 69 of Mystic China concerning Drawing PPE from other living creatures.
Pages 116-121: The Geofront. I love how the caves are filled with Positive Chi. I also like how foul beings' "bio-regenerative powers and available Chi - in this case, both I.S.P. and P.P.E." are affected.
Page 123: Chi Warrior. I like how Chi is developed into "inner strength" by these guys. Uhm...didn't we see this sort of confusion in Rifts Japan? I also like how they have a Permanent I.S.P. Base (Chi) that acquires additional Chi. Most importantly I like that this class (and most of the ones that follow) don't waste time repeating OCC stats from the OCC they are derived from.
Pages 123-124: Chi-Commando. See Chi Warrior for notes.
Page 124: Geofront Military Specialist: See Chi Warrior for notes.
Pages 124-125: Geofront Scout/Ranger. See Chi Warrior for notes.
Pages 125-126: Technical/Communication Officer. See Chi Warrior for notes.
Pages 126-127: Whack Job Scientist. See Chi Warrior for notes.
Page 127: Mystic Consultant. Interestingly enough, there's a note here that "They see the use of Chi, Martial Art Powers and psychic or spiritual abilities as separate from magic and part of the natural world." Uhm...so why do we keep seeing magic in reference to Martial Art Powers and spiritual abilities?
Pages 128-132: Geo-Borgs. I can lump all these together for the simple reason that the only important note is the interference of bionics on I.S.P. (which is based on the M.E. attribute as opposed to Chi's basis on the P.E. attribute...that's one of the big fundamental differences between Chi and I.S.P.).
Pages 132-134: Lightning Warrior. Here's another indication of the difference between I.S.P. and true Chi. The Lightning Warrior's I.S.P. is doubled. Chi on the other hand is affected by the insanities of a person, depending on the type of insanity present.
Pages 134-135: Metal Warrior. See Chi Warrior for notes.
Pages 135-136: Shadow Warrior. See Chi Warrior for notes.
Pages 136-141: Gun Master. See Jian Shih for Trained to Sense and Manipulate Chi and Powers of Mediation Notes.
Page 141: Losing the Power of Chi. I love how "Chi" changes outside of China. This has to be the most bogus part of the entire book.
Summary: What? What's exactly what here?
Net Result: Attempting to equate Chi to P.P.E. or I.S.P. not only fails due to internal inconsistancy, now we have a wide possibility of things to choose from, all of which cause problems:
Chi = Chi, but is represented by I.S.P.
Chi = I.S.P.
Chi = P.P.E
Chi = P.P.E = I.S.P.
P.P.E = I.S.P.
As you can see, the various attempts to try and make Chi something it is not in Rifts (I haven't even covered the many other problems from "Revised" Conversion Book 1, Phase World Sourcebook, Spirit West, or other books) has resulted in not only more confusion, but a complete breakdown of the original two energies as well.
