Can a principled good Cosmo Knight Kill? If so when?

[Greyaxe]

Under what circumstances can a principled good CK kill another sentient lifeform?

[Greyaxe]

You mentioned evil. Suppose Im psychic and can sence evil can I just blow it away on sight or should I wait for it to do something

Resisting arrest, leaves the door open quite a bit. Ill be sure to use that.

Does it have to be mass murder or can a simple single murder be enough and if so isnt that more like a revenge thing or vigilante justice?

[Jefffar]

A Principled CK may kill only under the same circumstance that a Principled character may kill - when killing someone is the only way to directly save a life or lives.

[Braden Campbell]

You may also kill all Lords of Entropy, upon sight, without fear of Falling.

Especially since they will be trying to kill you...

[Nekira Sudacne]

actually the discription of the Cosmo Knight in action said pretty plainly they rarely take prisoners or leave criminals alive...

I mean, read what it says under prinicpled.

never kill an unarmed foe
never kill for pleasure.

killing someone whos fighting back is well within alignment.

[Greyaxe]

You may also kill all Lords of Entropy, upon sight, without fear of Falling.

Especially since they will be trying to kill you...

Good to know, Will the lords of entropy be wearing a sign saying who they are? perhaps a name tag.

Seriously I think this Principled good CK will be one of the most cahallanging characters I have ever played. Hopefully the GM will be lenient until i get it down pat.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I keep having trouble calling them principled good. even for a major enemy, unless arrest and jailing is not an option, they should always try to apprehand the criminal first, no?

Ain't that what a principled person is all about? If you have the kill-on-sight thingy for a person, shouldn't you be anything other than a principled character.

depends. absolutly nothing in the principled alignment says they can't kill a crimial who's resisting. of course if the prinicpled character has an oath of duty like a policer offer that says they should, then they will sinse that falls under keeping their word.

but nothing in the cosmo knights code forbids killing.

I see cosmo knights as being fairly ruthless to those who resist. it's a fine line, but hey, that's the whole challange of the class.

[Greyaxe]

Agreed, Im going to play this character like an all time champion of justice but Im trying to get an archtype for him. A "fire and brimstone" force justice down your thorat mercilessly type or the passive be kind to others and they will be kind to you type. We arent really playing a hack and slash game so the fire and brimstone may be disruptive to the game but a whole lot of fun to play. But the I love you you love me barney type may get on my nerves so Im looking for a happy medium. Any advice?

[Vrykolas2k]

I'm trying to figure out when "Principled" came to mean "pacifist".
Nothing about it in the description of the allignment...

[Greyaxe]

I'd play a "take charge" type that's not afraid to order people around.

So when he meets a possible shady character and decides these might be a threat to others, he immediately "pads them down" much like a police officer doing their job.

I doubt I'd take it so far as to abuse the bonded deputy authority and just make up an excuse to conduct a search of Villain X's premises.

Actually some of this is what I've gone thru with a Wolfen Quatoria NPC, who is a "good guy" but also realistic. While he won't break the law himself, he may occaisionally stretch it, so while he won't do the above illegal search, he might make it clear to a Tri-Galactic mercenary team he's hiring that he'd be interested in what a "group of concerned citizens discover about that house", etc., or hiring a Psi-Ghost to board and get a hold of the computer navigation data from a Runner's ship to see where our shady friend has been visiting over the past few months.

by the same token, I liked the fact that the Anvil Galaxy book points out that Cosmo-Knights often target Naruni for "war-mongering" and I'd definitely allow that scenario, as long as the PC approached it logically. My own view, would be the CK wouldn't just outright kill everything in sight, they'd "warn" Naruni first (probably publicly) that they're no longer welcome in this part of space, and then go about hurting Naruni financially, destroying starhips and inventory, but making sure everyone got to lifeboats first so that there's plenty of witnesses to what happened and spread a little fear.

Also, it might be considered "a workout" for Cosmo-Knights to band together in groups of 3 or 4 and "fly to the Threshold" and wreak a little havoc on the Splugorth Stronghold there.

Thoes are some great ideas, I like the strongarm tactics without the violence,

[Nekira Sudacne]

well part of it is also the CK knows he's wearing an incredible set of armor and the average person, even armed with a Naruni plasma blaster really isn't going to do much damage to him, for the most part he's invulnerable.

now the plasma bolt bouncing off him and endangering little Tommy Shopkeeper next door is something else.

in addition, CKs do have vulnerabilities, mainly Magic and Psionics, so someone shooting at him with the Crystal Assault Rifle on Stun setting, means our CK could go down for the count (especially if it's 3 Fallen CKs who are Mind Melters, and all shooting at him)... now that's different, time to start getting serious...

what your discribing is more of valid character veiws on how to approach combat than actually being part of the CK code. i'm sure there are Cosmo Knights out there who use that approach, but i'm also sure they don't all.

[Jefffar]

Want a good Principled Cosmo-Knight Model - Spiderman.

A scion of justice who avoids killing unless it's the only way to save lives and protect the innocent.

A hero who refuses to deny the judge and jury their voice.

A palladin who refuses to play executioner.

Spidey has and will kill. But he'll try to end the encounter non-lethally first

[Greyaxe]

Depending on the armorment and the assessed threat to the CK determins the level of force; however you mentioned plasma bouncing off the CK and endangering little Tommy, should this be the opportunity to use lethal force regardless of the threat to the CK.

And for the Spiderman thing Spidy didn't have potentially lethal cosmic energy erupting from his hands. Even a single balst at third level can kill a man in light armor, if you roll decent damage. Im thinking the CK is a bull in a china shop where even the slightest amount of force can be lethal making the effort to arrest before lethal force is used difficult at best. While the CK may not be endangered the group of heroes he is traveling with most certenly will be with three or four naruni weapons blasting away, is the protection of your friends justification for using the cosmic blast to take oute a few gunmen?

[Braden Campbell]

You're a Jedi. Just act accordingly...

[Kryzbyn]

Don't confuse pricipled with "lawful stupid".
I think Cosmo Knights are supposed to be a-moral.
Black and White.
Evil or Non-evil.
They will not endanger innocents to take out a bad guy, but if that guy is in space, in a ship all by his lonesome...
But, i also think a cosmo knight WOULD kill 10000 to save millions...
They would also engage in genocide...wiping out kreegor or the like..and SPLUGGIES
It's thier call, with power to enforce given to them by a power beyond the realms of human thought or morality. They are only held accountable to the forge, not some mortal flawed beings rationalization of a CK's actions.

I could be wrong, but I think CK's are kinda supposed to be a$$holes that way.

[Greyaxe]

I would agree, but consider the average cosmo knight with armor will have between 700 - 1000 mdc (combined) and the ability to dish out may hundreds of mega damage per melee even aginst a spellcaster they arent that weak. I for one would carry an overlord staff and use anti magic cloud to deal with the mages in my life. So Darkmax yes in principle I would carry some magic to assist.

[Greyaxe]

Actually we use a house rule that only the bottom half of your body converts to energy to acomplish FTL. Otherwise you could never carry a raido and talk to the ship you are about to attack, or rescue.

[Greyaxe]

Why would it be vaporized? There is no drag in space.

[Aramanthus]

I've never seen anything like this indicated. When did physics decide this happens?

[Nekira Sudacne]

I've never seen anything like this indicated. When did physics decide this happens?

Never heard of E=MC^2?

Or more likely, you just never really understood what it ment.

[Aramanthus]

Actually when used in that way you are misquoting that equation. That doesn't say anything about as you approach the SOL the material breaks down. What it say Energy equal Mass times the speed of light squared. There is no where that says as things get closer to the speed of they break down into their component atoms. Einstien never said that.

Now if you are taking the nuclear fission reaction to use that excuse that as you approach the SOL you get particle break down. No. What you do in a nuclear fission reaction is you inject neutrons at near light speed. They impact on the nucleus of an atom. The introduction of the extra neutron causes an instability in the nucleus which causes it to split. The split release 2 to 3 neutrons, these then fly off to continue the chain reaction. The two fragments of the nuclues are now stable elements at a lower nuclear mass. The neutrons continue their chain reaction, but in neuclear reactors they have control rods whose job it is to capture some of the neutrons to prevent an uncontroled reaction.

So in conclusion what you said works for a nuclear reaction, but not if you take say a ship up to the SOL. It wouldn't break down into it's component atoms. Althought accelerating a ship to the SOL would take and infinite amount of mass to do so. So therefore it is impractical.

[Greyaxe]

I personally beleive the cosmo knight has his vulnerabilities and limits to make him part of a group onstead of a stand alone character. Example, no communications in space. Someone will have to do that for you, flash lights when the opponent surrenders and such. I dont feel taking straight damage from magic a real vulnerability considering the 700-1000 md the CK is likely to have. Needing a group is also not a vulnerability it makes the character fuctional in a group.

[Nekira Sudacne]

for a legitimate reason sure

imagine a CK wearing a stock off the shelf OP Phase Field belt. comes and goes invisibly, gets hit with Carpet of Adhesion, flicks the switch on his belt buckle and he's gone!

it could happen, especially if your buddy is a Promethean Phase Adept, you could get access to any phase technology...

but, I'm talking about the CK who can't do anything without carrying a Rune Weapon, couple of Greater Millenium Staves, etc, etc, who suddenly becomes a PPE channeller because the guy who's playing him doesn't know what they're doing or is bored.

"This guy has lots of PPE, give him techno-wizard items!"

and it becomes a farce.

or, "He's got Chi-Chu'an and all Chi abilities and Zenjorike powers, because he spent 1000 years medititating on the Mystic China planet, and almost has tackled all Mudra, carries a 20 point Vajra and..."

or, "He's got the Gift of Magic and using Dimensional Portal and his Cosmic Awareness, he can always open Rifts to the exact spot he needs !!! Forget superluminal flight, he's the greatest Shifter in the galaxies !!!"

and, "I almost forgot about his Ki-Lin familiar..."

or, "he's got six other OCCs he's picked up over the past 1000 years of kicking butt !!!"

at some point it can get absurd and I bet there are characters like that running around.

To address both this post and the one above it...

There's a difference between overt muchkinisem, and just havign a few new TW toys.

Seriously now. Let me put it this way.

There's something very wrong if, after 5 ro 6 levels, the cosmo knight or ANY character only has the toys and/or abilities he started with.

Sure, the diabolist rune cosmic armor and the uber Gun-Ray-of-Death is kinda lame.

But how about a Cosmo Knight with a TW gun of Magic Net for capturing criminals?

Or a TW camera with Blinding Flash?

There's plenty of little things that can be a great and cool help to the cosmo knight. and they SHOULD grow gradually more powerful. because having a static character just plain blows.

[Kryzbyn]

I hope the Cosmoknights book doesn't get axed...

[Kryzbyn]

That's too bad...that's one calss that NEEDS a whole book unto itself...even if just for clarification.

[Kryzbyn]

DBL POST MONSTER!!!!