Mechanoids versus Dominators

[Killer Cyborg]

How many Dominators were there at the height of their power?

they had a large planetful. i'd guess several billion, but it never actually says.

I would tend to agree with this assessment.

Okay, that is a heck of a lot of them.
They'd give the mechanoids a run for their money, but they'd eventually fall in the end.

why do you say that?

There's a heck of a lot of mechanoids, and they're pretty tough even if they're not as powerful as Dominators one-on-one.
Sure, Dominators have about 10,000 MDC (the stronger ones) and guns that do 1d4x100 MD.
Let's put him up against a small swarm of 100 Wasps.
We'll assume that he rolls really well and he fires, he kills one wasp.
We'll also assume that the Wasps hit with their shots, for an average damage of 50 MD.
First attack, the Dominator takes 5000 MD worth of damage, and he kills 1 wasp.
Second attack, the Dominator takes 4950 MD worth of damage, and he kills a second wasp.
Third round of damage, he takes 4900 MD worth of damage, and he kills a third wasp.
And he's dead.

There are about 1 billion wasps on every single mother ship.

While Wasps are formidable opponents (especially in swarms), they're far from the most powerful mechanoids around.

A Digger has 180,000 MDC and a plasma generator that inflicts 1d6x1000 MD per blast.
There are 30,000 Diggers per mother ship.

A Black Widow has 9000 MDC to the main body and does 3d6x10 MD on a melee strike, and they're not even fitted for combat. If the mechanoids were up against serious opposition they'd likely add some guns.

And that's not counting Battle Cruisers and Motherships themselves.

Then there's the real cannon fodder; the robots.
Thinmen have 150 MDC and can dish out 1d4x10 MD per attack (or 4d6x5 with a variable frequency laser rifle firing bursts).
A Dominator up against 100 Thinmen, with the same rules as the Wasp scenario:
Dominator kills a Thinman, but takes 2500 MD.
Dominator kills a second Thinman, but takes 2475 MD.
Dominator kills a third Thinman, but takes 2450 MD.
Dominator kills a fourth Thinman, but takes 2425 MD.
Same net result: he gets in some kills, but gets killed before causing really serious casualties.

There are 45 Billion Thinmen on every mothership.
As well as 90 billion runts and 57 billion various other robots (Repair units, assault probes, Skimmers, Weevils, etc.)

Say the Dominators are on a large enough planet that there are 10 billion of them, their entire population would be outnumbered almost 20 to one by the robots minions of one Mothership.

But maybe the Dominators have more tricks up their sleeve (they undoubtedly do), and they could end up winning against the robots from one mothership.
They'd still take losses, probably massive losses.
I don't know how quickly Dominators breed, but I'm sure that they don't do it fast enough to replace their losses before the mechanoids build a bunch more robots to replace the ones they lost.
Or just send in a few more motherships to finish the job.

[Nekira Sudacne]

How many Dominators were there at the height of their power?

they had a large planetful. i'd guess several billion, but it never actually says.

I would tend to agree with this assessment.

Okay, that is a heck of a lot of them.
They'd give the mechanoids a run for their money, but they'd eventually fall in the end.

why do you say that?

There's a heck of a lot of mechanoids, and they're pretty tough even if they're not as powerful as Dominators one-on-one.
Sure, Dominators have about 10,000 MDC (the stronger ones) and guns that do 1d4x100 MD.
Let's put him up against a small swarm of 100 Wasps.
We'll assume that he rolls really well and he fires, he kills one wasp.
We'll also assume that the Wasps hit with their shots, for an average damage of 50 MD.
First attack, the Dominator takes 5000 MD worth of damage, and he kills 1 wasp.
Second attack, the Dominator takes 4950 MD worth of damage, and he kills a second wasp.
Third round of damage, he takes 4900 MD worth of damage, and he kills a third wasp.
And he's dead.

There are about 1 billion wasps on every single mother ship.

While Wasps are formidable opponents (especially in swarms), they're far from the most powerful mechanoids around.

A Digger has 180,000 MDC and a plasma generator that inflicts 1d6x1000 MD per blast.
There are 30,000 Diggers per mother ship.

A Black Widow has 9000 MDC to the main body and does 3d6x10 MD on a melee strike, and they're not even fitted for combat. If the mechanoids were up against serious opposition they'd likely add some guns.

And that's not counting Battle Cruisers and Motherships themselves.

Then there's the real cannon fodder; the robots.
Thinmen have 150 MDC and can dish out 1d4x10 MD per attack (or 4d6x5 with a variable frequency laser rifle firing bursts).
A Dominator up against 100 Thinmen, with the same rules as the Wasp scenario:
Dominator kills a Thinman, but takes 2500 MD.
Dominator kills a second Thinman, but takes 2475 MD.
Dominator kills a third Thinman, but takes 2450 MD.
Dominator kills a fourth Thinman, but takes 2425 MD.
Same net result: he gets in some kills, but gets killed before causing really serious casualties.

There are 45 Billion Thinmen on every mothership.
As well as 90 billion runts and 57 billion various other robots (Repair units, assault probes, Skimmers, Weevils, etc.)

Say the Dominators are on a large enough planet that there are 10 billion of them, their entire population would be outnumbered almost 20 to one by the robots minions of one Mothership.

But maybe the Dominators have more tricks up their sleeve (they undoubtedly do), and they could end up winning against the robots from one mothership.
They'd still take losses, probably massive losses.
I don't know how quickly Dominators breed, but I'm sure that they don't do it fast enough to replace their losses before the mechanoids build a bunch more robots to replace the ones they lost.
Or just send in a few more motherships to finish the job.

Ummm, you are forgetting that each dominator has a PLANETOID spaceship with technology that makes everything the three galaxies has look like flintlock muskets, right? just one of those ships could go toe to toe with a mothership.

your exsamples are inherently flawed in that they assume the Dominator is fighting them in one on one combat. but you can no more take the dominators out of their machines than the mechanoids.

hows this: to be fair, when you had the Dominators fighting hte wasps, take the wasps out of their bodies and fighting in their own flesh as well.

now how well do the mechanoids do?

[Killer Cyborg]

Ummm, you are forgetting that each dominator has a PLANETOID spaceship with technology that makes everything the three galaxies has look like flintlock muskets, right? just one of those ships could go toe to toe with a mothership.

I'm not forgetting it; I'm just not aware of it.
Elaborate on their spaceships.

your exsamples are inherently flawed in that they assume the Dominator is fighting them in one on one combat. but you can no more take the dominators out of their machines than the mechanoids.

hows this: to be fair, when you had the Dominators fighting hte wasps, take the wasps out of their bodies and fighting in their own flesh as well.

now how well do the mechanoids do?

No idea what you're talking about.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Ummm, you are forgetting that each dominator has a PLANETOID spaceship with technology that makes everything the three galaxies has look like flintlock muskets, right? just one of those ships could go toe to toe with a mothership.

I'm not forgetting it; I'm just not aware of it.
Elaborate on their spaceships.

essentially they're listed as being the size of small planets with weapons and systems several orders of MAGNITUDE more powerful than anything else in phase world.

your exsamples are inherently flawed in that they assume the Dominator is fighting them in one on one combat. but you can no more take the dominators out of their machines than the mechanoids.

hows this: to be fair, when you had the Dominators fighting hte wasps, take the wasps out of their bodies and fighting in their own flesh as well.

now how well do the mechanoids do?

No idea what you're talking about.

simply put: your taking the dominators away from their usual machines they fight with in your exsamples, and if you do that, you have to take the mechanoids out of their mechanical weapons as well, fighting flesh to flesh

[Killer Cyborg]

Ummm, you are forgetting that each dominator has a PLANETOID spaceship with technology that makes everything the three galaxies has look like flintlock muskets, right? just one of those ships could go toe to toe with a mothership.

I'm not forgetting it; I'm just not aware of it.
Elaborate on their spaceships.

essentially they're listed as being the size of small planets with weapons and systems several orders of MAGNITUDE more powerful than anything else in phase world.

Okay, so what is the next most powerful thing in phase world?

simply put: your taking the dominators away from their usual machines they fight with in your exsamples, and if you do that, you have to take the mechanoids out of their mechanical weapons as well, fighting flesh to flesh

I went off of the standard armor and weapons that they were listed as carrying. Just like I went with the standard weapons and armor for the mechanoids.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Ummm, you are forgetting that each dominator has a PLANETOID spaceship with technology that makes everything the three galaxies has look like flintlock muskets, right? just one of those ships could go toe to toe with a mothership.

I'm not forgetting it; I'm just not aware of it.
Elaborate on their spaceships.

essentially they're listed as being the size of small planets with weapons and systems several orders of MAGNITUDE more powerful than anything else in phase world.

Okay, so what is the next most powerful thing in phase world?

Either the Doombringer or Iron Ship. Phase World Sourcebook contains both. it's a toss up (though I'd bet on the Iron Ship)

simply put: your taking the dominators away from their usual machines they fight with in your exsamples, and if you do that, you have to take the mechanoids out of their mechanical weapons as well, fighting flesh to flesh

I went off of the standard armor and weapons that they were listed as carrying. Just like I went with the standard weapons and armor for the mechanoids.

c'ept they wouldn't fight them personally...they'd use the ships.

[Killer Cyborg]

Ummm, you are forgetting that each dominator has a PLANETOID spaceship with technology that makes everything the three galaxies has look like flintlock muskets, right? just one of those ships could go toe to toe with a mothership.

I'm not forgetting it; I'm just not aware of it.
Elaborate on their spaceships.

essentially they're listed as being the size of small planets with weapons and systems several orders of MAGNITUDE more powerful than anything else in phase world.

Okay, so what is the next most powerful thing in phase world?

Either the Doombringer or Iron Ship. Phase World Sourcebook contains both. it's a toss up (though I'd bet on the Iron Ship)

I don't have either book anymore.
What's the gist of the stats?
(And come to think of it, were these things around when the Dominators were at the height of their power?)

I went off of the standard armor and weapons that they were listed as carrying. Just like I went with the standard weapons and armor for the mechanoids.

c'ept they wouldn't fight them personally...they'd use the ships.

So would the mechanoids, obviously.
But it always comes down to personal combat in the end.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Ummm, you are forgetting that each dominator has a PLANETOID spaceship with technology that makes everything the three galaxies has look like flintlock muskets, right? just one of those ships could go toe to toe with a mothership.

I'm not forgetting it; I'm just not aware of it.
Elaborate on their spaceships.

essentially they're listed as being the size of small planets with weapons and systems several orders of MAGNITUDE more powerful than anything else in phase world.

Okay, so what is the next most powerful thing in phase world?

Either the Doombringer or Iron Ship. Phase World Sourcebook contains both. it's a toss up (though I'd bet on the Iron Ship)

I don't have either book anymore.
What's the gist of the stats?
(And come to think of it, were these things around when the Dominators were at the height of their power?)

I was wrong about the Iron Ship--it's a cruser, not a dreadnought (though having 1d4x1000 MD cannons as it's secondary weapons is nice)

but the CAF Protector has roughly 250,000 MDC main body, 15,000 MDC force feild on each side, 2 main laser cannons which do 2d6x1000 MDC per at 100 mile rnage, 40 secondary guns that do 1d6x1000 each, tritary cannons that do 1d6x100, missle batteries, ect.

the Doombringer has 350,000 MDC for the first 2/3 of the ship, 200,000 MDC for the last 1/3 of the ship, 15,000 MDC force feilds around each side, two main cannons that do 4d4x1000 each, secondary cannons that do 1d4x1000 each, tritry cannnons that do 2d4x100 each, missle batteries, ect.

and they might well have been fighting them

I went off of the standard armor and weapons that they were listed as carrying. Just like I went with the standard weapons and armor for the mechanoids.

c'ept they wouldn't fight them personally...they'd use the ships.

So would the mechanoids, obviously.
But it always comes down to personal combat in the end.

why? they have no reason to when they can just blast the ships rubble to rubble.

[Killer Cyborg]

the Doombringer has 350,000 MDC for the first 2/3 of the ship, 200,000 MDC for the last 1/3 of the ship, 15,000 MDC force feilds around each side, two main cannons that do 4d4x1000 each, secondary cannons that do 1d4x1000 each, tritry cannnons that do 2d4x100 each, missle batteries, ect.

Okay, let's crunch some numbers.

Let's increase a Doombringer to be "Several orders of magnitude" more powerful:

Front Part: 10,500,000 MDC
Rear Part: 6,000,000 MDC
Force Fields: 450,000 MDC

Guns:
2 main guns: 4d6x30,000 MD
Secondary Cannons: 3d4x10,000 MD
Tertiary Cannons: 6d4x1000 MD
Plus missile batteries, etc.

The wing-like protrusions of a Mechanoid Mothership make up the bulk of the ship. These "wings" each have 40 billion MDC.
The front part of the ship, the "assault unit", has 100 million MDC.
The Rear Section has 60 million MDC.

The Dominators have a clear superiority in actual ship's weapons, though. The only gun listed for the Mothership itself does 6d6x20 MD (although there might be others that the author didn't think to list).

But this is likely where the 1 billion onboard Wasps come in handy (along with the Battlecruisers, Seekers, etc.).
Each Wasp does up to 2d4x10 per shot, for an average of 50 MD.
If only 1% of the wasps hit with their Particle Beams, they would inflict a combined damage total of around 10,000,000 MD in one attack.

But it always comes down to personal combat in the end.

why? they have no reason to when they can just blast the ships rubble to rubble.

Ships can always be boarded, although you are quite correct that the Mechanoids wouldn't likely need to board to win.

[Nekira Sudacne]

the Doombringer has 350,000 MDC for the first 2/3 of the ship, 200,000 MDC for the last 1/3 of the ship, 15,000 MDC force feilds around each side, two main cannons that do 4d4x1000 each, secondary cannons that do 1d4x1000 each, tritry cannnons that do 2d4x100 each, missle batteries, ect.

Okay, let's crunch some numbers.

Let's increase a Doombringer to be "Several orders of magnitude" more powerful:

Front Part: 10,500,000 MDC
Rear Part: 6,000,000 MDC
Force Fields: 450,000 MDC

Guns:
2 main guns: 4d6x30,000 MD
Secondary Cannons: 3d4x10,000 MD
Tertiary Cannons: 6d4x1000 MD
Plus missile batteries, etc.

The wing-like protrusions of a Mechanoid Mothership make up the bulk of the ship. These "wings" each have 40 billion MDC.
The front part of the ship, the "assault unit", has 100 million MDC.
The Rear Section has 60 million MDC.

The Dominators have a clear superiority in actual ship's weapons, though. The only gun listed for the Mothership itself does 6d6x20 MD (although there might be others that the author didn't think to list).

But this is likely where the 1 billion onboard Wasps come in handy (along with the Battlecruisers, Seekers, etc.).
Each Wasp does up to 2d4x10 per shot, for an average of 50 MD.
If only 1% of the wasps hit with their Particle Beams, they would inflict a combined damage total of around 10,000,000 MD in one attack.

again, your forgetting scale. the stats you listed are what a light cruser for the Dominators would be. now, take their PLANET-SIZED spaceships and put it to scale. we're talking around 100 billion MDC at a low estimate

I mean seriously, they could easially have MILLIONS of teritary cannons to blast said wasps with room to spare, AND significatly greater range, meaning the number of wasps that get close to the dominators are quite a bit less than a billion

[Killer Cyborg]

again, your forgetting scale. the stats you listed are what a light cruser for the Dominators would be. now, take their PLANET-SIZED spaceships and put it to scale. we're talking around 100 billion MDC at a low estimate

I mean seriously, they could easially have MILLIONS of teritary cannons to blast said wasps with room to spare, AND significatly greater range, meaning the number of wasps that get close to the dominators are quite a bit less than a billion

I'm not forgetting scale, I'm going by what you said:

Ummm, you are forgetting that each dominator has a PLANETOID spaceship with technology that makes everything the three galaxies has look like flintlock muskets, right? just one of those ships could go toe to toe with a mothership.
essentially they're listed as being the size of small planets with weapons and systems several orders of MAGNITUDE more powerful than anything else in phase world.

It's not my fault that you're changing your story.

[Nekira Sudacne]

again, your forgetting scale. the stats you listed are what a light cruser for the Dominators would be. now, take their PLANET-SIZED spaceships and put it to scale. we're talking around 100 billion MDC at a low estimate

I mean seriously, they could easially have MILLIONS of teritary cannons to blast said wasps with room to spare, AND significatly greater range, meaning the number of wasps that get close to the dominators are quite a bit less than a billion

I'm not forgetting scale, I'm going by what you said:

Ummm, you are forgetting that each dominator has a PLANETOID spaceship with technology that makes everything the three galaxies has look like flintlock muskets, right? just one of those ships could go toe to toe with a mothership.
essentially they're listed as being the size of small planets with weapons and systems several orders of MAGNITUDE more powerful than anything else in phase world.

It's not my fault that you're changing your story.

i'm not at all, you apparently misunderstood it. I said their technology is several orders of magnatued above anything phase world has. the Doombringer is hte best Phase World can cough up. the problem is, it's not even the same CLASS of ship. by trying to assign your listed statso to the Dominators planetoids, your basically saying a wood rowboat with increased stats compars to a battleship straight across.

the only way your "direct magniture" from PW tech would work is if you used a "Doombringer" planetoid nad not a "doombringer" dreadnought, because it's several orders of magnitude above a current planetoid. get it now?

and no, there is no current planetoid in PW. which should tell you the doombringer isn't a good comaprison--I thought that was obvious from what I was saying.

[RainOfSteel]

It's very difficult to guess at the Dominator population and major weaponry capabilities and stats because, unfortunately, they aren't listed.

The Mechanoids have had two entire game editions and a supplement about them published. They are also mentioned in a number of other locations.

The Dominators have one page in DB1: Phase World.

Naturally, we know a bit more about the Mechanoids and what they can do.

[Killer Cyborg]

again, your forgetting scale. the stats you listed are what a light cruser for the Dominators would be. now, take their PLANET-SIZED spaceships and put it to scale. we're talking around 100 billion MDC at a low estimate

I mean seriously, they could easially have MILLIONS of teritary cannons to blast said wasps with room to spare, AND significatly greater range, meaning the number of wasps that get close to the dominators are quite a bit less than a billion

I'm not forgetting scale, I'm going by what you said:

Ummm, you are forgetting that each dominator has a PLANETOID spaceship with technology that makes everything the three galaxies has look like flintlock muskets, right? just one of those ships could go toe to toe with a mothership.
essentially they're listed as being the size of small planets with weapons and systems several orders of MAGNITUDE more powerful than anything else in phase world.

It's not my fault that you're changing your story.

i'm not at all, you apparently misunderstood it. I said their technology is several orders of magnatued above anything phase world has.

No, what you said was that those ships are listed as:
a) being ths size of a small planet
b) having weapons and systems several orders of MAGNITUDE more powerful than anything else in phase world.

Perhaps you mis-spoke, and what you said is not what you actuall meant, but you did say it.

How about quoting the book directly on the subject, so that there can be no more confusion?

[Killer Cyborg]

It's very difficult to guess at the Dominator population and major weaponry capabilities and stats because, unfortunately, they aren't listed.

The Mechanoids have had two entire game editions and a supplement about them published. They are also mentioned in a number of other locations.

The Dominators have one page in DB1: Phase World.

Naturally, we know a bit more about the Mechanoids and what they can do.

True, and we don't really know much about the Mechanoids either really.

[RainOfSteel]

and no, there is no current planetoid in PW. which should tell you the doombringer isn't a good comaprison--I thought that was obvious from what I was saying.

Amazingly enough, that is also what I understood.

However, just increasing stats is itself not an accurate representation of an increase in technology.

What good are the bazillions of MDC on a Mechanoids' mothership if you fire a black hole at it? None. It gets gulped up and vanishes, untold masses of armor, troops, and all, just gone.

What good would the Mechanoids' weapons be if they all do 0 damage vs. the Dominator's superior systems?

In the end, we just don't know.

The Dominators have whatever an individual GM assigns them, and that can be pretty much anything based on the source material we have.

[RainOfSteel]

True, and we don't really know much about the Mechanoids either really.

That is quite true, but in comparison to what we know about the Dominators, we know a lot more about the Mechanoids . . . even if what we know about the Mechanoids isn't that much itself.

[Subjugator]

But this is likely where the 1 billion onboard Wasps come in handy (along with the Battlecruisers, Seekers, etc.).

Where are you getting the number of 1 billion Wasps onboard? IIRC, the highest number is ThinMen at 600,000,000.

Also - remember that this is not a one on one fight between one Dominator and one mothership. You're looking at closer to say...1,000,000,000 Dominators per mothership.

Sub

P.S. The 40 billion MD per wing IS a bit daunting, I'll admit.

[Subjugator]

It's very difficult to guess at the Dominator population and major weaponry capabilities and stats because, unfortunately, they aren't listed.

The Mechanoids have had two entire game editions and a supplement about them published. They are also mentioned in a number of other locations.

The Dominators have one page in DB1: Phase World.

Naturally, we know a bit more about the Mechanoids and what they can do.

True, and we don't really know much about the Mechanoids either really.

Like hell we don't. Have the books on 'em and we know quite a bit. We know there were (I think) six motherships. We know how many of each type of Mechanoid was maintained per mothership. We know the stats for each of them.

We know a LOT.

[Killer Cyborg]

But this is likely where the 1 billion onboard Wasps come in handy (along with the Battlecruisers, Seekers, etc.).

Where are you getting the number of 1 billion Wasps onboard? IIRC, the highest number is ThinMen at 600,000,000.

Mechanoid Invasion Trilogy, p. 124
The number of Thinmen is listed as 45 billion. Same page.

Also - remember that this is not a one on one fight between one Dominator and one mothership. You're looking at closer to say...1,000,000,000 Dominators per mothership.

No, I was looking at one mothership vs. one Dominator Planetoid Ship, because Nekira suggested that the Dominator would easily win in a one-on-one fight.

I'm not sure why you assume that the Dominators would have more of their planetoid ships than the Mechanoids have Motherships.

[Subjugator]

But this is likely where the 1 billion onboard Wasps come in handy (along with the Battlecruisers, Seekers, etc.).

Where are you getting the number of 1 billion Wasps onboard? IIRC, the highest number is ThinMen at 600,000,000.

Mechanoid Invasion Trilogy, p. 124
The number of Thinmen is listed as 45 billion. Same page.

Also - remember that this is not a one on one fight between one Dominator and one mothership. You're looking at closer to say...1,000,000,000 Dominators per mothership.

No, I was looking at one mothership vs. one Dominator Planetoid Ship, because Nekira suggested that the Dominator would easily win in a one-on-one fight.

I'm not sure why you assume that the Dominators would have more of their planetoid ships than the Mechanoids have Motherships.

Each Dominator had its own ship. IIRC, they *STILL* have their own planet-sized ships.

Sub

[Vrykolas2k]

Ummm, you are forgetting that each dominator has a PLANETOID spaceship with technology that makes everything the three galaxies has look like flintlock muskets, right? just one of those ships could go toe to toe with a mothership.

I'm not forgetting it; I'm just not aware of it.
Elaborate on their spaceships.

essentially they're listed as being the size of small planets with weapons and systems several orders of MAGNITUDE more powerful than anything else in phase world.

Okay, so what is the next most powerful thing in phase world?

Either the Doombringer or Iron Ship. Phase World Sourcebook contains both. it's a toss up (though I'd bet on the Iron Ship)

I don't have either book anymore.
What's the gist of the stats?
(And come to think of it, were these things around when the Dominators were at the height of their power?)

I went off of the standard armor and weapons that they were listed as carrying. Just like I went with the standard weapons and armor for the mechanoids.

c'ept they wouldn't fight them personally...they'd use the ships.

So would the mechanoids, obviously.
But it always comes down to personal combat in the end.

I don't know if "those things" were around, but since the Dominators destroyed every avanced civilization or seriously weakened those who weren't destroyed, we can assume that such things were extant. In fact, the Three Galaxies book has an "artifact" in it which likely dates to the time when the Dominators were doing their thing. It's nearly indestructable, and has super-advanced phase weapons that the prometheans know nothing about.
I still posit the theory that the main guns on a Dominator ship are likely as powerful as those on the SDFs, and as such could obliterate a mechanoid mothership. Can't be argued either way, however, as we don't have the dominator ship stats...
Or the promethean dreadnought stats, for that matter.

[Killer Cyborg]

Like hell we don't. Have the books on 'em and we know quite a bit. We know there were (I think) six motherships. We know how many of each type of Mechanoid was maintained per mothership. We know the stats for each of them.

We know a LOT.

Not so much.
We know the stats on the main gun of the Mothership, but we don't know if that's the only gun that the ship has.
We know that Black Widows crawl around the outside of the ship, but we don't know whether other Mechanoids do (Spider Fortresses, for example, might do this to add protection and firepower during combat).
We know that the mechanoids' artificial world took up nearly their entire solar system, "290 trillion square kilometers" to be specific, be we know nothing about what sort of technology or weaponry was there, or even the design of this world. Was it a Dyson Sphere of sorts? The books never say.

We know that they had an Apocalypse Machine that was very real, but we don't know exactly what it did or how it was supposed to work.

As for the number of Motherships, no hard numbers are ever given.
AFTER the entire (well, nearly) mechanoid race self-destructed, we know that there were still 12 left, but there is no mention of how many there were before that (although we do know that there were more than 12).

[Killer Cyborg]

I'm not sure why you assume that the Dominators would have more of their planetoid ships than the Mechanoids have Motherships.

Each Dominator had its own ship. IIRC, they *STILL* have their own planet-sized ships.

Sub

So where are we coming up with our estimated number of Dominators again?

[Killer Cyborg]

I feel the need to point out that the planetoid sized ships are PERSONAL ships, not war ships. And that three were able to waste three of the most powerful gods Ive seen in print (pre-Dominator anyway).

What gods would those be?

[Killer Cyborg]

I have borrowed a copy of Phase World, and read the section on Dominators. I have discerned the following:

1. They likely didn't have planet-destroying technology, or if they did then it wasn't widespread. They waged a "war of genocide" against every other race and after the war was over, every starfaring race was "wiped out or bombed back to the stone-age".
Death-Star type planet destruction wouldn't bomb people back to the stone-age; it would destroy them. This indicates that the most that they could to (at least, for the most part) was to do massive bombings of worlds that would kill off the life on that planet, not to destroy the planet entirely.
Unlike the mechanoids.

2. It is unlikely that they had a very high population.
They have a presumably indefinite life-span, and a lone-wolf disposition. Neither concept fits with the idea of prolific breeding. Also, they were 30' tall. Bigger creatures means less room, and likely lower populations than for smaller creatures.

3. There is no indication that their technology was "several orders of magnitude" greater than other races.
What the book says is, "The ancient technology of the dominators is superior to everything current designers can created. Their weapons and armor is unmatched. Fortunately, their numbers are few and most of them work alone."
There is no indication of how superior their technology is. It could be roughly 2x as powerful, or 10x as powerful, as "current" Phase World technology, at least in the areas of weapons and armor. But there's no real reason to assume that they had god-like technological capabilities that would out-gun the mechanoids.

4. They did not all have planetoid sized spaceships.
What the book says is that when their planet was blown up by a black hole projector (a doomsday weapon, and probably not their own), "a few hundred dominators escaped in their personal spaceships, giant planetoid sized behemoths with enough firepower to devastate a planet."
This can mean one of two things:
a) Of the entire population of the planet, only a handful possessed such ships.
b) The entire population possessed such ships, but their population was really, really low. To the point that all of them but a few hundred could park their planetoid-sized ships around the same planet at once.
Either way, such ships weren't high in number.

[Killer Cyborg]

You missed something KC. This is a matchup between the Mechanoids and the Dominators at theier respective peaks those Dominator ships that escaped the destruction of thier world -each the size of a planetoid- were personal ships. Shuttles and yahts.

Put the classic "personal ship" in comparison to a Ship of the Line.

I didn't miss anything.

You seem to be missing the logistics of it, though.

-The Dominators were mostly wiped out when their planet was destroyed.
That's planet. Singular.
-Only a few hundred managed to escape on their personal ships.

Follow so far?

Now ask yourself how these few hundred, and only these few hundred managed to survive.

Scenario A-
EVERY single Dominator in the three galaxies were all back at their home planet for tea-time or something when the doomsday weapon went off. Out of their entire race, a few hundred managed to find out about the impending doom, run to their personal shuttles, and escape.
Not one of these Dominators happened to fly off in any sort of war ship or other, larger, more powerful craft; they all just happened to take small personal shuttles that are the size of a planetoid.

Scenario B-
The ships were the pinacle of their technology, used for personal transportation and for war. More than that, these ships were the homes of the few hundred Dominators lucky enough to have one. That's why they were the size of a planetoid; they were meant to be lived in by 30' tall creatures that like a roomy, luxorious home with a lot of firepower.
There were only a few hundred of these ships in existence at the time, and most or all of them were away from the homeworld when it was destroyed. There were no other warships, and there were not not more of these ships, because the Dominators simply didn't need any more. Hundreds of warships, each capable of killing off the population of a planet (or bombing the population back to the stone-age) was really all that was required for them to conquer the galaxies.

Personally, I think that Scenario B makes a lot more sense than to think that ships the size of planetoids were the equivilant of common civilian transport. That's like assuming that every human on Earth, or the majority of them, could someday have a car the size of Europe.

[Killer Cyborg]

I fail to see how because they didn't destroy all the planets in the three galaxies, you infer that they do not have the capabilities. They like to take slaves are, as the name says, dominate others. They would want to have they planets in the galaxy to be used. That would be the most logical deduction from the continuing existence of planets in the three galaxies, not "they couldn't do it".

You don't take slaves in a war of genocide, and you aren't particularly concerned with taking ground either.
And clearly the Dominators weren't worried about taking other planets, because if they wanted them they'd have taken them.
And they wouldn't have all been wiped out when their home world was destroyed.

I'll also say not every Dominator would have a ship like the ones mentioned in Phase World, but those ARE personal ships. Personal ships that are inferred at being able to fight fleets of current tech TG ships. Their war ships would be terrifying.

What's your view, then?
EVERY single one of these terrifying warships was parked at the homeworld when the doomsday weapon wen off?
I don't buy it.

Lastly I'll say that the TG at the time of the "Dominator Wars" could quite possibly have been at a higher tech level then now, based on the existence of a black hole projector. Though this is merely a guess.

That is certainly possible.

[Killer Cyborg]

1. I think the term genocidal was misused in this description. Though thats my opinion.

2.The war ships finnally fell the to the forces of the combined might of THREE Galaxies, who used thier last ships in suicidal death runs. Again my opinon.

Possible, but (as you say) only opinion.

If the combined forces were able to destroy all the larger warships, though, then why would they feel the need do use the doomsday weapon?

I also say no real answer can be made on this until more about the Dominators is stated. Though I like the Doms more, so they win.

[Killer Cyborg]

I think they managed to detroy the warships, but lost THIER war ships in the process. I have NO idea what a black hole projectors range is, but ill guess: ALOT.

I don't buy it, but it's not an implausible theory.

[RainOfSteel]

Lastly I'll say that the TG at the time of the "Dominator Wars" could quite possibly have been at a higher tech level then now, based on the existence of a black hole projector. Though this is merely a guess.

That is certainly possible.

A garden variety legendary scientist could also have invented the black-hole generator just to get rid of the Dominator's planet, as well. It would have been the type of weapon that was built for a single purpose, was fired once, and destroyed itself upon discharge or was destroyed with counter-battery fire after it had already sent a singularity on its way.

[Killer Cyborg]

Lastly I'll say that the TG at the time of the "Dominator Wars" could quite possibly have been at a higher tech level then now, based on the existence of a black hole projector. Though this is merely a guess.

That is certainly possible.

A garden variety legendary scientist could also have invented the black-hole generator just to get rid of the Dominator's planet, as well. It would have been the type of weapon that was built for a single purpose, was fired once, and destroyed itself upon discharge or was destroyed with counter-battery fire after it had already sent a singularity on its way.

That seems more possible.

[Subjugator]

You missed something KC. This is a matchup between the Mechanoids and the Dominators at theier respective peaks those Dominator ships that escaped the destruction of thier world -each the size of a planetoid- were personal ships. Shuttles and yahts.

Put the classic "personal ship" in comparison to a Ship of the Line.

I didn't miss anything.

You seem to be missing the logistics of it, though.

-The Dominators were mostly wiped out when their planet was destroyed.
That's planet. Singular.
-Only a few hundred managed to escape on their personal ships.

Follow so far?

Now ask yourself how these few hundred, and only these few hundred managed to survive.

Scenario A-
EVERY single Dominator in the three galaxies were all back at their home planet for tea-time or something when the doomsday weapon went off. Out of their entire race, a few hundred managed to find out about the impending doom, run to their personal shuttles, and escape.
Not one of these Dominators happened to fly off in any sort of war ship or other, larger, more powerful craft; they all just happened to take small personal shuttles that are the size of a planetoid.

Scenario B-
The ships were the pinacle of their technology, used for personal transportation and for war. More than that, these ships were the homes of the few hundred Dominators lucky enough to have one. That's why they were the size of a planetoid; they were meant to be lived in by 30' tall creatures that like a roomy, luxorious home with a lot of firepower.
There were only a few hundred of these ships in existence at the time, and most or all of them were away from the homeworld when it was destroyed. There were no other warships, and there were not not more of these ships, because the Dominators simply didn't need any more. Hundreds of warships, each capable of killing off the population of a planet (or bombing the population back to the stone-age) was really all that was required for them to conquer the galaxies.

Personally, I think that Scenario B makes a lot more sense than to think that ships the size of planetoids were the equivilant of common civilian transport. That's like assuming that every human on Earth, or the majority of them, could someday have a car the size of Europe.

How about - a few hundred were on the outskirts of the event horizon and were able to escape, but the rest were inside the point of no return of a freaking BLACK HOLE!

What would you estimate the kill radius of a black hole to be? Collapsars demolish entire solar systems. Collaxars demolish entire galaxies.

I'm starting to lean toward the Dominators winning this fight.

Even if those ships were not *common* civilian transport, I bet they were as common as say - Mercedes Benzes. Further, the point is that if personal ships had those capacities, what were the MILITARY ships like? I think it's reasonable to imagine that the best personal ship was only 1/10 of what a good military ship was.

As far as effective weaponry goes, a wealthy American civilian can own a GE Minigun as a top end weapon (they certainly do bring good things to light!). A more 'typical' high end weapon would be an M-16, MP-5, M-60, Uzi, MAC-10 (Ingram Model 10), or M-2.

Our military has rocket launchers, tanks, helicopters, bombs, APCs, airplanes, and the like. The difference between civilian and military is substantial. As this was written by a person from North America, it is safe to assume that they imagine military capacities as being distinct from civilian capacities.

See?

Sub

[Killer Cyborg]

Now ask yourself how these few hundred, and only these few hundred managed to survive.

Scenario A-
EVERY single Dominator in the three galaxies were all back at their home planet for tea-time or something when the doomsday weapon went off. Out of their entire race, a few hundred managed to find out about the impending doom, run to their personal shuttles, and escape.
Not one of these Dominators happened to fly off in any sort of war ship or other, larger, more powerful craft; they all just happened to take small personal shuttles that are the size of a planetoid.

Scenario B-
The ships were the pinacle of their technology, used for personal transportation and for war. More than that, these ships were the homes of the few hundred Dominators lucky enough to have one. That's why they were the size of a planetoid; they were meant to be lived in by 30' tall creatures that like a roomy, luxorious home with a lot of firepower.
There were only a few hundred of these ships in existence at the time, and most or all of them were away from the homeworld when it was destroyed. There were no other warships, and there were not not more of these ships, because the Dominators simply didn't need any more. Hundreds of warships, each capable of killing off the population of a planet (or bombing the population back to the stone-age) was really all that was required for them to conquer the galaxies.

Personally, I think that Scenario B makes a lot more sense than to think that ships the size of planetoids were the equivilant of common civilian transport. That's like assuming that every human on Earth, or the majority of them, could someday have a car the size of Europe.

How about - a few hundred were on the outskirts of the event horizon and were able to escape, but the rest were inside the point of no return of a freaking BLACK HOLE!

What would you estimate the kill radius of a black hole to be?

Good question.
Got a solid answer?

Collapsars demolish entire solar systems. Collaxars demolish entire galaxies.

I'll take your word for it, but it doesn't matter.
Because we know two important things:
1. The Dominators were all over the 3 Galaxies at the height of their power.
2. The 3 Galaxies did NOT get sucked into a black hole.

So it's back to the "All of the Dominators were at home when the bomb hit" theory, or the "A few hundred Dominators in planetoid-sized ships were all that were really needed to wage war" theory.

I'm starting to lean toward the Dominators winning this fight.

Even if those ships were not *common* civilian transport, I bet they were as common as say - Mercedes Benzes.

And you base this on...?

Further, the point is that if personal ships had those capacities, what were the MILITARY ships like? I think it's reasonable to imagine that the best personal ship was only 1/10 of what a good military ship was.

My point is that these ARE their military ships.
Again, look at it.
IF they had other, more powerful military ships, then these ships (some or most of them) would be off at war when the bomb hit the homeworld.
Some of them would have survived.
But none did.
Which brings us back to:
1. All the warships were inexplicably at the home-world during wartime.
or
2. The ships mentioned ARE the warships.

As far as effective weaponry goes, a wealthy American civilian can own a GE Minigun as a top end weapon (they certainly do bring good things to light!). A more 'typical' high end weapon would be an M-16, MP-5, M-60, Uzi, MAC-10 (Ingram Model 10), or M-2.

Our military has rocket launchers, tanks, helicopters, bombs, APCs, airplanes, and the like. The difference between civilian and military is substantial. As this was written by a person from North America, it is safe to assume that they imagine military capacities as being distinct from civilian capacities.

See?

Sub

Not really.
I mean, I get the difference between modern US military firepower and modern US civilian firepower... I just don't get why you think it's applicable to this conversation.

[Killer Cyborg]

Is it just me, or didn't I already address those issues above?

It's not just you, no.

[Subjugator]

Is it just me, or didn't I already address those issues above? I dunno, maybe my point was lost or unclear. But to recap: you are assuming the Dominators have a social and military structure similar to our own. There is no reason to assume that. And I really think you need to rethink the logistics of having possibly millions of planetoid ships in the same solar system.

Black Holes aren't necessarily enormous. I would assume that the weaponized version was on the smaller end. After all, it says it destroyed their planet, not their galaxy. You could maybe figure it took the rest of the solar system with it, I think that could be fair (not too likely there would be more than 1 habitable planet in a single solar system). Still, having millions of those personal ships is like saying you have a solar system with millions of planets. It just doesn't really work, especially since if any decent fraction of them ever left, or left and came back, or just moved around a lot, the gravitational effects would screw up everything else in the system.

I hadn't gotten to your statements when I wrote my reply.

I'm also not suggesting that they had millions of ships, but that there were perhaps several thousand total.

I only mentioned collaxars to point out the destructive potential of a black hole.

Also - my main point was that the military ships were almost certainly more powerful than the civilian ships, and as the civilian ships for individual were planetoid sized (say - Pluto-ish), then I imagine that the military ships for many beings were larger.

As for my reasons for thinking that they had big ships and militaries similar to ours; Occam's razor. The writer of the book was human and from North America. It is safe to assume that he has a particular vision of a military presence that is colored by his experiences in his life. As such, Occam's razor dictates that it is probably similar to our own.

Sub

[Subjugator]

Scenario A-
EVERY single Dominator in the three galaxies were all back at their home planet for tea-time or something when the doomsday weapon went off. Out of their entire race, a few hundred managed to find out about the impending doom, run to their personal shuttles, and escape.
Not one of these Dominators happened to fly off in any sort of war ship or other, larger, more powerful craft; they all just happened to take small personal shuttles that are the size of a planetoid.

I forgot to mention that this is the most likely, if asinine, explanation as to why they were all killed.

What would you estimate the kill radius of a black hole to be?

Good question.
Got a solid answer?

Not really, no. I suppose I could find one, but any significant black hole has got to have a HUGE area of effect.

I'm starting to lean toward the Dominators winning this fight.

Even if those ships were not *common* civilian transport, I bet they were as common as say - Mercedes Benzes.

And you base this on...?

Just to be clear, I said "I bet", not, "I know for a fact". I base it on averages in the world and the fact that some people will have nicer stuff than others. Maybe...what...1/2% of people in this world own Benzes? You think that's too common for a luxury ship in a hyper-advanced society?

My point is that these ARE their military ships.
Again, look at it.
IF they had other, more powerful military ships, then these ships (some or most of them) would be off at war when the bomb hit the homeworld.
Some of them would have survived.
But none did.
Which brings us back to:
1. All the warships were inexplicably at the home-world during wartime.
or
2. The ships mentioned ARE the warships.

My thoughts are that they were off at war, but without support from the main fleet from the mother-world, they eventually were killed.

Not really.
I mean, I get the difference between modern US military firepower and modern US civilian firepower... I just don't get why you think it's applicable to this conversation.

Because military firepower tends to exceed civilian firepower.

Sub

[DhAkael]

One thing thats been occupying my thoughts about this thread is this question. The only chart with the Mechanoid population is page 124 of the collected trilogy. Does that count the total number of in existence everywhere, or just the population of a single mothership? Something tells me thats just the numbers on a single mothership. Why I say this is because it lists the human population of the only planet featured as only 180,000.

And another thing, would be there Mechanoid types beyond the 15 listed in the books. Will we see types beyond the overlord, ones that only exist in KS's head for now?

Yes...or not...
You do know that we ain't ever seeing Mech-Space, yes?

[SkyeFyre]

I should submit my home brewed Mechanoid stuff to the Rifter. Maybe that would add a bit of motivation to that.

From what I understood the population chart in the Mechanoid book is that of the mothership, and not that of the entire population of their race.

[sHaka]

Because military firepower tends to exceed civilian firepower.

Sub

A lot has been read into the line from DB2 that mentions "personal" planetoid sized ships.

Personal doesn't always mean civillian - Most of the PCs in my campaigns have personal military grade weapons and vehicles (the best Naruni and Triax have to offer).

We don't know that the Dominator's personal ships weren't their military, assuming they were organised into a military.

[Killer Cyborg]

As for my reasons for thinking that they had big ships and militaries similar to ours; Occam's razor. The writer of the book was human and from North America. It is safe to assume that he has a particular vision of a military presence that is colored by his experiences in his life. As such, Occam's razor dictates that it is probably similar to our own.

Sub

No, it doesn't.
The simplest explanation is that the writer is capable of writing outside of his own experiences. Othwerwise he would not be capable of coming up with such creatures in the first place.

[Subjugator]

As for my reasons for thinking that they had big ships and militaries similar to ours; Occam's razor. The writer of the book was human and from North America. It is safe to assume that he has a particular vision of a military presence that is colored by his experiences in his life. As such, Occam's razor dictates that it is probably similar to our own.

Sub

No, it doesn't.
The simplest explanation is that the writer is capable of writing outside of his own experiences. Othwerwise he would not be capable of coming up with such creatures in the first place.

I didn't say he couldn't. I said it was probable that he didn't. When you consider that he made the Dominators distinctly humanoid, made them beings that attempted to control the three galaxies, and even made their weapons similar to those we would use, it's FAR simpler to believe that they had some sort of military and that it was similar to our own (i.e. organized by strata, weapons issued, etc).

Sub

[Killer Cyborg]

Scenario A-
EVERY single Dominator in the three galaxies were all back at their home planet for tea-time or something when the doomsday weapon went off. Out of their entire race, a few hundred managed to find out about the impending doom, run to their personal shuttles, and escape.
Not one of these Dominators happened to fly off in any sort of war ship or other, larger, more powerful craft; they all just happened to take small personal shuttles that are the size of a planetoid.

I forgot to mention that this is the most likely, if asinine, explanation as to why they were all killed.

How so?

Even if those ships were not *common* civilian transport, I bet they were as common as say - Mercedes Benzes.

And you base this on...?

Just to be clear, I said "I bet", not, "I know for a fact". I base it on averages in the world and the fact that some people will have nicer stuff than others. Maybe...what...1/2% of people in this world own Benzes? You think that's too common for a luxury ship in a hyper-advanced society?[/quote]

We're not talking about luxory cars; we're talking about ships the size of a planetoid.
A more applicable comparison would be the percentage of people who own private jets.

My thoughts are that they were off at war, but without support from the main fleet from the mother-world, they eventually were killed.

Your thoughts go against what is stated in the book.

Not really.
I mean, I get the difference between modern US military firepower and modern US civilian firepower... I just don't get why you think it's applicable to this conversation.

Because military firepower tends to exceed civilian firepower.

Sub

As I said, I get that.
IF you find a statement in the books saying that these ships were civilian craft, and something stating that the Dominators had any formal military, then you might bring this in as being relevent. Until then, it just isn't.

[Subjugator]

Basically, I think you're misusing Occam's Razor (which happens a lot, I think). You are figuring that since the Dominator's vaguely resemble us physically, then they are based off the author's life experience and their military therefore will be like ours. However, the book is pretty explicit that they are not socially like us at all, which is a far more relevant quality when it comes to how their military will be structured.

I'm going to reply to the rest of the stuff later.

What I'm saying is that we know the following:

The author described a race of beings that took on three galaxies at once and almost won the fight. The author is a human being with experiences relevant to North America. Yes, the author can create things outside of his scope of experience, but as a rule, those things are colored by an author's experiences.

The book is in fact NOT explicit that they are not like us at all on a social level. They are solitary - that doesn't mean there is no structure. When you're talking about beings on that power level, you're talking about people that had BETTER have rules of behavior or there will be self extinction. I tend to be a solitary person (due to my autism). That does not mean I do not recognize the need for some structure in the world.

Also - if they were all solitary, then they would be divided and conquered. If they were so solitary, why were the vast majority of them on their home planet at the time of its destruction? If they were so solitary, how could they breed?

Also - how was their stuff created? Machines? How was it invented? Machines? Slave races? Who acts as overseer? Who acts as overseer to the overseer? Who settles disputes of property? Who handles the bureaucracy necesssary to maintain an advanced technical civilization?

I know how to use Occam's Razor, and the simplest answer is that their military is structured the same way as every other race in the three galaxies. Given that the rest of the races in the three galaxies are structured with military and civilian weaponries - why is it unnatural to assume that given the lack of evidence one way or the other with the Dominators, that they are different than everyone else?

Sub

[Nekira Sudacne]

Scenario A-
EVERY single Dominator in the three galaxies were all back at their home planet for tea-time or something when the doomsday weapon went off. Out of their entire race, a few hundred managed to find out about the impending doom, run to their personal shuttles, and escape.
Not one of these Dominators happened to fly off in any sort of war ship or other, larger, more powerful craft; they all just happened to take small personal shuttles that are the size of a planetoid.

Uh, just to point out, but there's a fundamental flaw in your thinking--your assuming that there's even a difference between civilian and military. it's possible the dominators advanced to such a state that every single one could build a ship that incorperates everything they no. maybe they don't even have different classes of ship like we do. after all, the reason why we have different classes is conservation of resources, you can build a dozen decent ships for the same resources as you could put into one dreadnought.

on the other hand, if you have enough rescourses, you could simply make every unit a dreadnough, no need to waste time on lesser ships.


I know--I do that all the time in SMAC.

[Subjugator]

Scenario A-
EVERY single Dominator in the three galaxies were all back at their home planet for tea-time or something when the doomsday weapon went off. Out of their entire race, a few hundred managed to find out about the impending doom, run to their personal shuttles, and escape.
Not one of these Dominators happened to fly off in any sort of war ship or other, larger, more powerful craft; they all just happened to take small personal shuttles that are the size of a planetoid.

Uh, just to point out, but there's a fundamental flaw in your thinking--your assuming that there's even a difference between civilian and military. it's possible the dominators advanced to such a state that every single one could build a ship that incorperates everything they no. maybe they don't even have different classes of ship like we do. after all, the reason why we have different classes is conservation of resources, you can build a dozen decent ships for the same resources as you could put into one dreadnought.

on the other hand, if you have enough rescourses, you could simply make every unit a dreadnough, no need to waste time on lesser ships.


I know--I do that all the time in SMAC.

Well, every other race that has been depicted in the Three Galaxies has a difference. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest answer is that they too have differences.

Sub

[Killer Cyborg]

Basically, I think you're misusing Occam's Razor (which happens a lot, I think). You are figuring that since the Dominator's vaguely resemble us physically, then they are based off the author's life experience and their military therefore will be like ours. However, the book is pretty explicit that they are not socially like us at all, which is a far more relevant quality when it comes to how their military will be structured.

I'm going to reply to the rest of the stuff later.

What I'm saying is that we know the following:

The author described a race of beings that took on three galaxies at once and almost won the fight. The author is a human being with experiences relevant to North America. Yes, the author can create things outside of his scope of experience, but as a rule, those things are colored by an author's experiences.

The book is in fact NOT explicit that they are not like us at all on a social level. They are solitary - that doesn't mean there is no structure.

The fact that they are Solitary by nature DOES explicitly mean that their society would be different from human society. Humans are inherently social creatures. A race of inherently solitary creatures would develop a radically different society.
There would be structure; but the structre would have little resembelence to our own.

Also - if they were all solitary, then they would be divided and conquered.

Not really. They had better tech than anybody else. One of their planetoid-sized ships could ruin an entire planet.

If they were so solitary, why were the vast majority of them on their home planet at the time of its destruction?

Because a planet has a HECK of a lot of space.
Take an Earth-Sized planet, populate it with 1 billion creatures, and each of them would have quite a bit of elbow room.

If they were so solitary, how could they breed?

Because "solitary" does not mean "NEVER, EVER gets near another living being."
They hook up to breed, then they part. Life goes on.

Also - how was their stuff created? Machines? How was it invented? Machines? Slave races? Who acts as overseer? Who acts as overseer to the overseer? Who settles disputes of property? Who handles the bureaucracy necesssary to maintain an advanced technical civilization?

Perhaps you should explain what you think the word "solitary" means. Because you don't seem to be using it in the common definition.

I know how to use Occam's Razor, and the simplest answer is that their military is structured the same way as every other race in the three galaxies. Given that the rest of the races in the three galaxies are structured with military and civilian weaponries - why is it unnatural to assume that given the lack of evidence one way or the other with the Dominators, that they are different than everyone else?

Sub

Where does it say that the rest of the races in the Three Galaxies are structured with military and civilian weaponries?

(Not that it matters; the Dominators are different from the other races in a LOT of ways)

[Killer Cyborg]

Scenario A-
EVERY single Dominator in the three galaxies were all back at their home planet for tea-time or something when the doomsday weapon went off. Out of their entire race, a few hundred managed to find out about the impending doom, run to their personal shuttles, and escape.
Not one of these Dominators happened to fly off in any sort of war ship or other, larger, more powerful craft; they all just happened to take small personal shuttles that are the size of a planetoid.

Uh, just to point out, but there's a fundamental flaw in your thinking--your assuming that there's even a difference between civilian and military. it's possible the dominators advanced to such a state that every single one could build a ship that incorperates everything they no. maybe they don't even have different classes of ship like we do. after all, the reason why we have different classes is conservation of resources, you can build a dozen decent ships for the same resources as you could put into one dreadnought.

on the other hand, if you have enough rescourses, you could simply make every unit a dreadnough, no need to waste time on lesser ships.

All of which is essentially my point.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Scenario A-
EVERY single Dominator in the three galaxies were all back at their home planet for tea-time or something when the doomsday weapon went off. Out of their entire race, a few hundred managed to find out about the impending doom, run to their personal shuttles, and escape.
Not one of these Dominators happened to fly off in any sort of war ship or other, larger, more powerful craft; they all just happened to take small personal shuttles that are the size of a planetoid.

Uh, just to point out, but there's a fundamental flaw in your thinking--your assuming that there's even a difference between civilian and military. it's possible the dominators advanced to such a state that every single one could build a ship that incorperates everything they no. maybe they don't even have different classes of ship like we do. after all, the reason why we have different classes is conservation of resources, you can build a dozen decent ships for the same resources as you could put into one dreadnought.

on the other hand, if you have enough rescourses, you could simply make every unit a dreadnough, no need to waste time on lesser ships.

All of which is essentially my point.

and my point is your point aginst it, isn't really a point at all. it's quite plausible.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well, every other race that has been depicted in the Three Galaxies has a difference. In the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest answer is that they too have differences.

Sub

No, the simplest answer that fits all of the facts is that Dominators only have one type of major ship; the planetoid-sized one listed specifically.

Use Occam's Razor yourself, and quit ypothesizing the existence of other ships, then trying to come up with theories why none of these hypothetical ships managed to survive the destruction of the homeworld.
The simplest explanation is that these ships didn't survive the destruction of the home-world because the ships never existed in the first place.