Bio-tech reproduction

[The Baron of chaos]

I've this thorn in my head and I cannot stop thinking about it.
Bio-tech main differenc efrom non-organic tech is that is alive. Now this means it can heal itself, regenerate and do all thing the living do.
One of key factor in defining life froms, is the plain and simple reproduction.
But in Main book this is unclear. Do the Genepolls are responsible of the actual birthing of ALL the warmounts and bio-equipments ? It seem a bit too much of work, and if is physically taxing even one tenth of normal birthing ,well I hope Engineers got VERY GOOD painkillers and headache pills.
I understand that Host Armor ar eto be build around the wearer, but some standard things like a Bio-energy blaster, or raising warmounts, would work more smoothly if letting the nature do its course. I mean whats the advantage of having a living tank if you cannot breed them? In my mind I think that there are coltivation of some bio-weapons and breeding of warmounts. Unique warmounts woudle ventually get an imporvement later in their life.
It make much more sens this way. Or not?
I wann hear your opinion

[demos606]

In the warmount section I believe the creation of ALL biotech from the pools is discussed. Pretty much the only natural reproduction rates the humans worry about are their own.

Also, gestation for Mounts I've always envisioned as being in something very similar to cocoons from which they emerge fully grown after their initial "birthing" in the pools.

[The Baron of chaos]

If so then the Splicer Humans are possibly the dumbest strain of the species (Well perhaps just a notch below Atlanteans). As i envisioned it, common non military bio-tech and most warmounts are allowed to reproduce, mostly because is more easy keep up this way the request of people. Amongst simple warmounts that do repordcue normally we have mega horse, and gorehounds. Cubs ar elikely not to be MDC or being low mdc being, and expose to further improvement later in life.
Perhaps the most dangerous Bio-tech is kept under more rigid control and is porduced like you said.
Still remeber the Jurassic Park theorema "Life always find a way". Aka Murphy's law of genetic.

I am on this way of thinkign because reproduction is one of the basical common manifestation of life, at least in our environment. for clear it out I write them down:
Organization - Living things are composed of one or more cells, which are the basic units of life.
Metabolism - Metabolism produces energy by converting nonliving material into cellular components (synthesis) and decomposing organic matter (catalysis). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.
Growth - Growth results from a higher rate of synthesis than catalysis.. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter.
Adaptation - Adaptation is the accommodation of a living organism to its environment. It is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity as well as the composition of matabolized substances, and external factors present.
Response to stimuli - A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism when touched to complex reactions involving all the senses of higher animals. A response is often expressed by motion: the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun or an animal chasing its prey.
Reproduction - The division of one cell to form two new cells is reproduction. Usually the term is applied to the production of a new individual (either asexually, from a single parent organism, or sexually, from at least two differing parent organisms), although strictly speaking it also describes the production of new cells in the process of growth.

So as you see it make very more sene to me make , at least those living tech more commonly used and expendable, able to reproduce by themselves rather than left all the job on Engineers(for the chronicle I've some personal issues with such figure, there was no another way to develope bio-tech?).

[demos606]

Humans in Splicers didn't develop bio-tech, it was given to them. As for natural reporduction for any bio-tech, genetic drift is too much a risk in creatures that have to meet such specific genetic goals, plus I doubt highly if there are enough in a given House that any of them can afford to have signifigant portions of their War Mounts unavailable for combat. All bio-tech is quite literally genetically engineered from start to finish and I can't see any wisdom in risking having a ***** go in heat mid-fight and distracting all the nearby males of her species.

[demos606]

Why use food animals underground? Fungus is so much simpler to deal with and doesnt need a food source of its own. HA and Warmounts can forage in the field and quite a few of them need no foodsource at all or feed on their wearer.

[slappy]

Demos is referring to page 67 of the main book. It says that the Librarians created bio-tech plants and fungus that feed the entire population. They can taste like anything from fruit to meat. This allows them to grow enough food underground.

[The Baron of chaos]

Taste is one thing, nutritional value is another thing. That's why you cannot live only eating one type of food. . So unless the poor bastard of human resistanc epass their time eating fungus and vitamin pills(man just whne i thought Splicer cannot be more depressing than it is) think we need somethign else to compensate
and again NOT ALL GREAT HOUSE LIVE UPNDER EARTH. Most do yes, but there are also those th elive . ahem...underwater. Plus how do you imagine the Great House?
I'm pretty sure Demos and Slappy think about large gloomy cavern with little light and fleshy organic stuff all around. Is anice thought if you wanna be driven into a strong depression(I puzzle how suiced rates is going on in Splicer earth). In my mind there are large, very very large d caverns, muhc like those movies depicting the center of earth from Jules Verne books, with some lichen , OLEDs, and super giant glove cells, producing light of the same frequency of sunlight. lot of weed, farms, artificial lakes, hydroponic coltivations, and yes Fleshy orgnaic stuff , but in more armonic and "organic" settlement, not just laying around. After all Bio-tech need space, lot of space. even if you say it come out full gronw, you need some place tonput them. And to prove I'm right, nightvision is not a standard feature.

Returning to the point of the thread. I think that the right way is an average betweem the two position. Military bio-tech, for now at least, do have limited reproduction ability(of course this does not means they are not able to have sexual life, some innate behaviour are build in with the positive featueres of the genes Warmounts are made of. ) I've said limited. Perhaps they are almost all females(more docile and loyal) with few males acting as mounting animal wiht selected specimen. Host armors do not reproduce(for now, but I like to think mutation will solve this problems soon or later), and I think the same is true for most bio-weapon(even if i like the idea of weapon tree, tree that instead of apple or oranges, grow bio-laser or Bio-energy blasters. That would not unbalance things, because it woudl follwo the normal growth time and maturation,). Non military bio-tech(see my other thread) will reproduce, after all the Genepools are damn busy wihtout haivn to build bio-tech to make the human lif eless miserable.
Remeber dude is not only to survive but how you survive. Life , even wihtou outside menace, is short, we are doomed ot end our existance, so making it more acceptable and tollerable is as important as sheer survival.

[slappy]

I'm actually semi-offended you think I have such a dreary outlook and vision.

On the subject of food, the book says the fungus and plant trees were genetically engineered to produce all manner of foods, from meat, to vegetables, to fruit. It says it is "like" fungus because of the fact it can grow without direct sunlight. That doesn't mean that they only subsist off of mushrooms and vitamin pills.

On the subject of my view of life underground, I have a pretty decent understanding of human psychology and I don't think humans could survive the mental stress of living in dark, dreary caves. I have no idea why you decided those are my views.

I have been detailing life underground within my House Artemis sourcebook. Here are some of the highlights:

A. Entertainment. A great deal of the services and physical space within each underground haven is dedicated to entertaining the citizens. Daily life in this era is grim. The cramped conditions, continuous threat of extermination at the hands of the Machine, and the fact that most people never see the sky (or at least only see it in battle) means that the average person is constantly at their breaking point and must be careful not to succumb to hopelessness and despair. Some Great Houses have very little to offer their citizens and try to distract them with vice, but House Artemis tries to provide its people with more positive activities (not that vice is suppressed or ignored). This section will detail:

1. Theater and storytelling: The Nanobot Plague has made playing videos, movies, and all other electronic media impossible, and millions of books and periodicals were consumed in the fires of war. This has forced humanity to return to its earliest roots of theatrical plays and simple story telling to entertain the masses and teach history to the new generations. In the past, recounting history through verbal storytelling led to exaggerated versions of true events, but the vast mental databanks of the Librarians has allowed these stories to stay true to real events even after almost two centuries. Of course, most people feel uncomfortable in the presence of a Librarian so these tales are usually relayed through a human intermediary. House Artemis has also begun transcribing the historical memories of the Librarians to establish a public library. They have also commissioned another Great House to build them a movable type printing press to mass produce these works. The library is in its infancy, but Warlord Artemis sees it as an important step to rebuilding civilization.
2. The Market: House Artemis has a large mall in the middle of their underground haven to give their citizens a central point to shop, relax, and socialize. The mall consists of hundreds of small open air tents or just simple table set ups. It isn’t fancy, but it gets the job done. People can buy all manner of Bio-Tech and inorganic items, including weapons and armor. Bio-Weapons manufactured by House Artemis are sold to residents at a 25 percent discount. This is also where residents can buy items traded from other Great Houses and even items brought from the Retro-Villages. Thousands of people crowd this plaza twenty-four hours a day. Life underground tends to negate the importance of daylight cycles and people tend to make their own hours. The staggered schedules benefit House Artemis since a large percentage of the populace is always awake and alert to guard the home front.
3. Food Court: At the end of the Market is a large plaza filled with nearly one thousand tables encircled by dozens of food stands. These stands serve the Bio-Tech food grown by House Artemis. The strange Bio-Tech fruits and fungus come in all kinds of textures and flavors and the food stands know how to prepare them in hundreds of different ways. Some stands even serve real meat, fruit, and vegetables brought down from the surface. Unlike some other Houses, all residents receive three meals a day for free. Every man, woman, and child is issued food coupons each week. Additional food can be purchased with their own money, but no one in House Artemis ever has to worry about starvation. Of course, some people sell their coupons to feed their addictions.
4. Pub Row: All the bars, nightclubs, and taverns of House Artemis are located within one long dead-end passageway known as Pub Row. Over forty separate bars are carved into the sides of the rock walls. They are all roughly the same size. The sit down taverns are able to comfortably seat 40 people, but the livelier dance clubs are standing room only and can pack in as many as 300 people. They serve all manner of alcoholic beverages, some brewed the old fashioned way and some created by Bio-Tech organisms known as Boozers. Drugs are illegal within House Artemis (which doesn’t mean they aren’t easy to find in Pub Row), but most other vices are allowed. Warlord Artemis tries to discourage these activities, but he knows banning them will just make them more desirable (plus he ultimately thinks they are harmless and he likes to keep his people happy). Gambling is legal as is prostitution, but it is strictly confined to Pub Row. At the end of the passageway is the only sanctioned brothel within House Artemis. The regular stock of prostitutes are routinely scanned and treated by Saints to keep them healthy.
5. Sports: Members of a warrior culture like House Artemis often find it difficult to leave their aggression on the battlefield. Sports and other physical competitions are the perfect way to blow off some steam during the downtime hours, but unfortunately, space is a precious commodity underground. The most popular forms of competition involve one-on-one contests like submission wrestling, arm wrestling, and sparring. There are hundreds of small workout rooms scattered throughout the underground haven that can be reserved for these activities. People also participate in team sports like football, soccer and, dodgeball, but there are only a few rooms available for this and the waiting list is substantial. House Artemis even allows its warriors to compete in full Host Armor, (although use of ranged weapons is strictly prohibited). Warlord Artemis considers it excellent practice plus their equipment naturally regenerates so there is virtually no risk of wasting resources. There are all manner of individual and team sports that are played in Host Armor, and it is becoming more popular than unarmored competition. Aside from all the small rooms, there is one large arena that can also be reserved for sports matches, sparring competitions, and tournaments. It is roughly half the size of a football field and it has stands built around it that can seat 5000 people. There are events going on twenty-four hours a day. Most of these events are free to the public, but popular matches like grudge matches between Dreadguard, team sparring sessions, or challenges for the title of Warlord of House Artemis usually have a rather steep admission fee.
6. Sun Rooms: Human beings need to see the sun periodically to maintain their mental and physical health. Unfortunately, even quick trips to the surface are incredibly dangerous, and the risk is not worth it. To help keep people sane, every Great House builds what they call Sun Rooms. These simple chambers have a large Glow Cell mounted on the ceiling to simulate an artificial sun. It generates the full spectrum of light like real sunlight (it can even feed photosynthetic creatures and devices and a person can actually get a sunburn if he or she is not careful). Most Sun Rooms are small stone chambers large enough for a few dozen people, but House Artemis built a huge chamber they call the Beach. This large dome can hold nearly two thousand people at a time. The ceiling is painted blue to simulate the sky, and it has a white sandy beach surrounding a large pond. It is one of the most popular spots in the underground haven. House Artemis also has dozens of smaller private sun chambers that can be rented out for private parties and romantic getaways. It is easy to throw a dimly lit dinner by candle light underground. The most sought after getaways are brightly lit picnic dinners.

Sorry for the more aggresive tone in the beginning, but you made some rather negative assumptions about how I think.

[The Baron of chaos]

Don't worry, i've being attuned to much more aggressive tone. And again is my fault, I misunderstood you, it is me that should be sorry.

Anyway your posting is interesting, why don't you post something in non-military bio-tech thread?

[slappy]

I was trying to save it (along with everything else) for my sourcebook, but I've pretty much decided to just post everything as I write it anyway. I'm just going to finish off a few O.C.C.'s right now that I'm the most interested in, then I'm going to start from the beginning of the book.

So it'll likely go history of House Artemis, life underground, life above ground, and then some non-military tech.

Here's a few quick notes form my outline just to show you I'm not just about the military aspects:

1. Boozer: Looks like a three-armed squid. They excrete a strong alcoholic beverage. They come in fruit and various mint flavors. Favorite drink among many Splicers, as long as they can ignore the fact they’re drinking the urine from a mutant squid. Also known as “Squid ****.”
2. Power Cells: Living electrical generators that power all the lights and simple nanobot-safe electronic devices throughout the underground havens. Basically looks like a spiky ball of muscle tissue.
3. Recyclers: They prowl the septic tanks in the underground havens and consume the waste and extract viable nutrients and water (haven't really decided what they look like).
4. Silkworm Clothing: Bio-Tech Silkworms that weave a fine mega-damage thread. Specially trained tailors then weave these into M.D. clothing. Silkworm clothing can protect the wearer from energy blasts and slashing weapons, but the flimsy material offers no protection against mega-damage impacts.

[The Baron of chaos]

Ya know reading your posting I noticed a BIG missing fromthe entertaiment, and thinking about the thread subject, I thought why not add it(in the hope to not make the thread being deleted that is)
Pleasure Houses: Or to put it bluntly, brothels. But don't think bad, they are not what do you think. Or not only. Life is precious in Splicer world, and most soldier(the majority of human resistance) are encouraged to spend their free time with their partners and mkae child. Child ar eprecious. But from times to times one could experience problems, of any things, or wanting to make things in their relations spicy, or just wanting to broke the routines. But those are not the most comon guests of the pleasure house. See Splicer world has also many, ahem, subjects thatwill find a normal relation to be hard to create. Scarecrows, Biotics, Saints and so on. Many wrongly assume that they no more feel the desire for carnal pleasures, that they no more feel the need of someone close to them , for the touch of a partner on their monstrous skin. But they are wrong. Lack of human contact often drives them over the edge, and here comes the Pleasure House experts. See the courtesans of these peculiar place, are no just expert in any form of physical pleasure,but are trained psichiatrist and sexuologist, that can give reliefe not only from physical point of view. in some case they don't even engage in sex, but simply treat their guests, as normal people,not monsters or weapon or martyr, but simple , average, people, offering chatting, a relaxing moment, and so on.
The courtesan in some case even undergo minimal bio-enahcement to withstand their suerpowered guests affect expression(being hug with all strenght by a excited biotic will generally crush 3 or 4 chest ribs...).
The Pleasure House are often simple, but elegant buildings, built close to an artificial pool of crystaline water. No weapon is allowed inside, albeit most guest ARE living weapons, and is severly forbidden to hurt or the courtesans in any way.
These women , despite the bad fame, do actually a useful social service, keeping in control some of the mot dangerous subjects of a great house.

[demos606]

Taste is one thing, nutritional value is another thing. That's why you cannot live only eating one type of food. . So unless the poor bastard of human resistanc epass their time eating fungus and vitamin pills(man just whne i thought Splicer cannot be more depressing than it is) think we need somethign else to compensate
and again NOT ALL GREAT HOUSE LIVE UPNDER EARTH.

Modern humans can indeed not live on just one food source, and vegaterians are generally more sickly than meat eaters because there are no veggies that produce (at least) two of the essential amino acids humans require. Bio-engineered foodstuffs bypass this entirely because they're built from scratch to fulfil all nutritional requirements. As for carnivore HA and Warmounts (are there even any carnivore Mounts?) it is still entirely possible to engineer "fungus" to meet their nutritional needs and the fungus could just as easily be grown on human waste (a readily available "foodsource").


As for how I see the Houses living, remember one thing - those who don't carry swords can still die upon them. Even the noncombatants are likely given basic weapons training from probably as young as they can lift the weapons and daily life revolves around the mundane tasks of keeping everyone fed and clothed. Recreation is probably very similar to what the Celts, Vikings and Native American cultures offered - games that train for combat. Football, soccer, track and field, archery, hammer toss etc etc etc. Life in a militant society needs not be dull and boring but it does need to revolve around survival. Very few will have the luxury of sitting around drinking coffee and chatting about the weather.

[The Baron of chaos]

There is always time to drink a coffee.
Ya know Demos is such view of the slicer world that somehow disturb me.
And what's wrong in cattling giant chikens?

[slappy]

Ya know reading your posting I noticed a BIG missing fromthe entertaiment, and thinking about the thread subject, I thought why not add it(in the hope to not make the thread being deleted that is)
Pleasure Houses: Or to put it bluntly, brothels. But don't think bad, they are not what do you think. Or not only. Life is precious in Splicer world, and most soldier(the majority of human resistance) are encouraged to spend their free time with their partners and mkae child. Child ar eprecious. But from times to times one could experience problems, of any things, or wanting to make things in their relations spicy, or just wanting to broke the routines. But those are not the most comon guests of the pleasure house. See Splicer world has also many, ahem, subjects thatwill find a normal relation to be hard to create. Scarecrows, Biotics, Saints and so on. Many wrongly assume that they no more feel the desire for carnal pleasures, that they no more feel the need of someone close to them , for the touch of a partner on their monstrous skin. But they are wrong. Lack of human contact often drives them over the edge, and here comes the Pleasure House experts. See the courtesans of these peculiar place, are no just expert in any form of physical pleasure,but are trained psichiatrist and sexuologist, that can give reliefe not only from physical point of view. in some case they don't even engage in sex, but simply treat their guests, as normal people,not monsters or weapon or martyr, but simple , average, people, offering chatting, a relaxing moment, and so on.
The courtesan in some case even undergo minimal bio-enahcement to withstand their suerpowered guests affect expression(being hug with all strenght by a excited biotic will generally crush 3 or 4 chest ribs...).
The Pleasure House are often simple, but elegant buildings, built close to an artificial pool of crystaline water. No weapon is allowed inside, albeit most guest ARE living weapons, and is severly forbidden to hurt or the courtesans in any way.
These women , despite the bad fame, do actually a useful social service, keeping in control some of the mot dangerous subjects of a great house.

Not ignored, just not highlighted. Now it is...

Pub Row: All the bars, nightclubs, and taverns of House Artemis are located within one long dead-end passageway known as Pub Row. Over forty separate bars are carved into the sides of the rock walls. They are all roughly the same size. The sit down taverns are able to comfortably seat 40 people, but the livelier dance clubs are standing room only and can pack in as many as 300 people. They serve all manner of alcoholic beverages, some brewed the old fashioned way and some created by Bio-Tech organisms known as Boozers. Drugs are illegal within House Artemis (which doesn’t mean they aren’t easy to find in Pub Row), but most other vices are allowed. Warlord Artemis tries to discourage these activities, but he knows banning them will just make them more desirable (plus he ultimately thinks they are harmless and he likes to keep his people happy). Gambling is legal as is prostitution, but it is strictly confined to Pub Row. At the end of the passageway is the only sanctioned brothel within House Artemis. The regular stock of prostitutes are routinely scanned and treated by Saints to keep them healthy.

[demos606]

In all fairness, were humans not forced to live underground, giant chickens as cattle would probably be a good plan. As the world is presented though, there's just no way. Too many factors against such a plan - space, competition for food, dedicated adults to handle things like breeeding.

In an underwater base space and competition for food are even more of an issue because Leviathans are at essentially a fixed size and seedlings grow fairly slowly.

Of course, there is the possibility of creating and stocking fresh water lakes in all the underground bases that could provide fish to suppliment the basic fungal diet. Said fish could also be engineered to cleanse the waters they live in and meet all the dietary requirements of an adult fairly easily.

Don't feel bad about my outlook disturbing you, Marines have that effect on most people. There's just something about the mentality thats near enough impossible to shake and makes us scary to civilians.

[demos606]

Actually, based on the numbers of Saints listed for Barren Marsh, I have to wonder if gene pools actually necessitate the presence of a Librarian or Engineer. If they can simply exist on their own, it would be quite simple to meet the production needs of even Houses as large as Barren Marsh with a few Engineers and Librarians while the genepools just sit there and float gestating or recharging biotech.

[The Baron of chaos]

Interesting question. Why the gene-pools need to enter in symbiosis exactly with humans? And Where they come from? I thought it was a result of human eugenetics but many factor seem to deny this fact. And where is going? I noticed that military bio-tech come out very more easily that non-military(even if i Insist that it shoudl exist more variety of non military bio-tech, I admit it is far less of the weapons that are porduced in very large amounts! Damn some OCC got a bio-weapon for each WP skill they got!) Thye plan to creat large lving flesh cities to fight machiens, but would they stop at that point?.


Ah Demos don't worry, oddly knowing you're a mraine make myself less disturbed. Is not your fault, you were trained to think in such way (Is not a negative thing, every job do that in some way)