Archie's building capabilities

[Greeter]

Greetings All,

Archie has been a main component of my Rifts campaigns ever since that sourcebook was released. As a result many questions have developed through the years. The biggest one is just what is his robot building capabilities? How many robots can he manufacture each month or year?

[Jefffar]

Lots and lots.

I get the impression that the Hagan gear from Mechanoids was actually produced in a few hours to a couple of days.

[Killer Cyborg]

Lots and lots.

I get the impression that the Hagan gear from Mechanoids was actually produced in a few hours to a couple of days.

Agreed.
Basically, he can build as many robots as the GM wants him to, within reason.

[Greeter]

Lots and lots.

I get the impression that the Hagan gear from Mechanoids was actually produced in a few hours to a couple of days.

Agreed.
Basically, he can build as many robots as the GM wants him to, within reason.

Therein lies the catch. What is reasonable? Can he build 100 robots a month? How about 1000? Unfortunately I am not aware of any numbers given anywhere as to how many Titans robots are sold.

[Jefffar]

Despite their surprisngly low (many would say suspiciously low) price, Titan bots are extremely rare on the market. Archie could produce lots more than he does, but he only produces a few units - just enough for them to be seen regularly, but not enough to challenge Northern Gun market domminace.

The quality relative price of the Titan bots - if Archie wanted to start cranking out hordes of them he could put Northern Gun out of the robot buisness within a few years and firmly keep Triax out of the North American market.

Of course, if he did that, then the CS, NG and Triax would come looking for him.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Well, it really depends on this:

What would you say archines Mining ability for raw material is?

I'm certain he exsauted the spares in the Aberdeen complex centuries ago. he's GOT to be getting new raw material from somwhere.

[Jefffar]

I got the idea that Archie uses nanites in a lot of his manufacturing. Depending on the nature of the nanites at his disposal, he could conceivibly be capable of converting one type of matter to another on a molecular level. This would give him an effectively unlimited supply of materials as he could convert the dirt and rock around him into high density super resiliant alloys and ceramics.

Yes it would be less efficient than using existing alloys - but then again - I think he has all the scrap of a demolished Mechanoid Base to work with. That gives him a hugh ammount of high grade raw material he could convert into his preferred formats.

So I think that Archie is probably doing quite well on the amterials front (though he would probably prefer to secure a constant supply of super alloyto simplify and increase the efficiency of his manufacturing process).

[Greeter]

The first sourcebook specifically says Archie's nanotechnology is "quite limited". Even with that, I agree he probably doesn't have any problems getting materials. For the sake of argument, let's suppose he has all the materials he will ever need (at least for a year). What is his maximum output (robots created) per month or year? What is plausible? Archie's Aberdeen complex is the largest robot manufacturer in North America right (if not the world)? Are there manufacturing stats listed for any business in any of the Rifts books so we can get an idea?

[Danger]

The first sourcebook specifically says Archie's nanotechnology is "quite limited". Even with that, I agree he probably doesn't have any problems getting materials. For the sake of argument, let's suppose he has all the materials he will ever need (at least for a year). What is his maximum output (robots created) per month or year? What is plausible? Archie's Aberdeen complex is the largest robot manufacturer in North America right (if not the world)? Are there manufacturing stats listed for any business in any of the Rifts books so we can get an idea?

Don't forget that Archie got a huge upgrade with Mechanoid tech.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The first sourcebook specifically says Archie's nanotechnology is "quite limited". Even with that, I agree he probably doesn't have any problems getting materials. For the sake of argument, let's suppose he has all the materials he will ever need (at least for a year). What is his maximum output (robots created) per month or year? What is plausible? Archie's Aberdeen complex is the largest robot manufacturer in North America right (if not the world)? Are there manufacturing stats listed for any business in any of the Rifts books so we can get an idea?

Don't forget that Archie got a huge upgrade with Mechanoid tech.

which made no mention of nanotech.

[Danger]

The first sourcebook specifically says Archie's nanotechnology is "quite limited". Even with that, I agree he probably doesn't have any problems getting materials. For the sake of argument, let's suppose he has all the materials he will ever need (at least for a year). What is his maximum output (robots created) per month or year? What is plausible? Archie's Aberdeen complex is the largest robot manufacturer in North America right (if not the world)? Are there manufacturing stats listed for any business in any of the Rifts books so we can get an idea?

Don't forget that Archie got a huge upgrade with Mechanoid tech.

which made no mention of nanotech.

Neither did I.

[Toc Rat]

I think it was either in Aftermath or one of the Rifter's...possibly even the Merc Ops book but in one of them it gave a general idea of Archie's manufacturing capability and it is incredible. His underground complex was huge in Pre-Rifts time and he has expanded it sense then.

As I said I forget the exact book(s) but it said that he can produce thousands of robots, weapons, etc. per month. He just lacked the motivation to do so until recently. After the brush with the Mechanoids, he and Hagan have been galvanized to increase their efforts at North American/World domination.

Where does he get the raw materials? I imagine the same place the CS, FQ or NGR does. That being Ether, Thin Air, Never ending supply of Pre-Rifts ruins that are somehow still useable, Massive nano-bot mining/construction teams or the ever popular "It's just a game!"

[finn69]

the titans sales center and the submarine shipping thing was in one of the rifters but i dont remember which one.

[rat_bastard]

Archie has as many or as little factoriys/mines/materials/plungers/nuclear power plants as your story requires, plus a few because he's archie and he gets what he wants. In addition he has a network of people who work for him who have no idea they are working for him. Archie can manufacture completely identical replicas of any lesser mechoniod, some kittani items and any earth made item he can examine. Archie has less worrys about titan robt construction because his new factory can have a clear paper trail, publicly tracable materials etc... it can also be used to suplement his side projects. Archie is also in a good place to divert coalition resources to his supplies without diffuclty because of his spy skelebot program and his mastery of tech (need some nuclear material? Forge some orders for a couple of platoons of skelebots to march into shemarian terrortory and take the ramains to Archie.).

[Greeter]

Thank You gentlemen That was exactly what I needed to know.

[grandmaster z0b]

I like the idea of some high tech recylcing being involved to produce materials (nanites or even something energy based). That way he could take any MDC armour scraps from fallen enemies and broken old robots and recylce it into new materials. He could probably buy raw materials through his Titan network as well.

[Braden Campbell]

Baltimore is not too far away from ARCHIE. Recycle the city.... that's a LOT of robots right there.

Maybe that's why the Republicans vanished... they found out that someone was recycling all the cities on the east coast...

[rat_bastard]

lets not forget that archie knows the location of every pre-rifts military base, dump, land fill, city etc... I can imagine explorers turned into giant walking recyclers just marching from pre-rifts city to another consuming old treasures.

[Shorty Lickens]

Lots and lots.

I get the impression that the Hagan gear from Mechanoids was actually produced in a few hours to a couple of days.

Agreed. Basically, he can build as many robots as the GM wants him to, within reason.

Therein lies the catch. What is reasonable? Can he build 100 robots a month? How about 1000? Unfortunately I am not aware of any numbers given anywhere as to how many Titans robots are sold.

If you're a player, whatever the GM tells you.

If you're a GM, whatever works in yor campaign.

In my current campaign, I have a small group of PC's forming allies all over the eastern seaboard to try and wipe out the Mechanoids. If they cant seem to get enough help then I may have to let ARCHIE built a little robot army.
If they can get enough help then then the only ARCHIE bots available will be one or two of each type.

[DocS]

For drama purposes, I'd run ARCHIE like the proverbial sleeping Giant. The party will see his robots occasionally and occasionally run into small scale Robo-shennanigans (the odd android infiltrator, etc)...

Then when they're doing other things and pretty much convinced that this robot thing is small potatoes...

I run an adventure where they end up somewhere underground, and stumble on a massive subterranean robot factory and tunnel complex with tunnels stretching hundred of miles. This is when Archie makes his big move, locks down a huge hunk of New England as the 'Shemmarian Lands', with neo-cyborg/druidic looking decoy things on the surface and massive underground production underneath waiting for a chance to send wave after wave of death machine into Atlantis... this would of course first involve infiltrating CS nuclear control, hijacking a nuclear missile, and launching a pre-emptive strike on splynn kicking the whole North American continent into huge Chaos....

The idea is to have the party learn of the plan, escape New England by the skin of their teeth (Arch wants to eliminate the only witnesses to the true nature of the Shemmarian Empire), and try to foil the Mad Robot overlord since no one else believes them when they say the Shemarrians are robots.

By the way, would installing bacterial cultures into robots be enough to give them PPE? Not much, I'm thinking this sort of 'Bio-gel' would have maybe 1 PPE for every 50 pounds of gel, but enough to throw guys off the 'robot' scent when them Shemmarians seem to have 1 or 2 PPE.

I love that big-ol psycho brain..... I really do.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Lots and lots.

I get the impression that the Hagan gear from Mechanoids was actually produced in a few hours to a couple of days.

Agreed. Basically, he can build as many robots as the GM wants him to, within reason.

Therein lies the catch. What is reasonable? Can he build 100 robots a month? How about 1000? Unfortunately I am not aware of any numbers given anywhere as to how many Titans robots are sold.

If you're a player, whatever the GM tells you.

If you're a GM, whatever works in yor campaign.

In my current campaign, I have a small group of PC's forming allies all over the eastern seaboard to try and wipe out the Mechanoids. If they cant seem to get enough help then I may have to let ARCHIE built a little robot army.
If they can get enough help then then the only ARCHIE bots available will be one or two of each type.

he's asking for advice on HOW to do that, methinks.

[Toc Rat]

By the way, would installing bacterial cultures into robots be enough to give them PPE? Not much, I'm thinking this sort of 'Bio-gel' would have maybe 1 PPE for every 50 pounds of gel, but enough to throw guys off the 'robot' scent when them Shemmarians seem to have 1 or 2 PPE.

I love that big-ol psycho brain..... I really do.

I too love Archie, he is really a staple NPC of Rifts for me.

Regarding giving the She-Marrians PPE, I don't think "Bio-Gel" would do it. If I remember correctly plants dont have any PPE and that's what "Bio-Gel" sounds like to me, plant matter. Even if it was "flesh" based I think a living creature must have some kind of intelligence to have PPE, even that of a mouse but still some kind of actual intelligence.

In the past in my games I had Archie use his connections with the Black Market (via Titan Industries) to aquire small Techno-Wizard PPE batteries. Combined with a over lay of organic skin, muscle and blood, it gave the appreance of a living, if cybernetic, being.

[Shorty Lickens]

Lots and lots.

I get the impression that the Hagan gear from Mechanoids was actually produced in a few hours to a couple of days.

Agreed. Basically, he can build as many robots as the GM wants him to, within reason.

Therein lies the catch. What is reasonable? Can he build 100 robots a month? How about 1000? Unfortunately I am not aware of any numbers given anywhere as to how many Titans robots are sold.

If you're a player, whatever the GM tells you.

If you're a GM, whatever works in your campaign.

In my current campaign, I have a small group of PC's forming allies all over the eastern seaboard to try and wipe out the Mechanoids. If they cant seem to get enough help then I may have to let ARCHIE built a little robot army.
If they can get enough help then then the only ARCHIE bots available will be one or two of each type.

he's asking for advice on HOW to do that, methinks.

Well, I would just say that ARCHIE has a big plant at his home base in Aberdeen and maybe smaller plants throughout New England.

As for exactly HOW, well if the guy wants to role-play every little detail, he needs to start of by getting an electrical and mechanical engineering degree, with a minor in metallurgy. Then he needs to go out and join the workforce in the field of factory assembly.

Personally, I think thats WAAAY too much background knowledge just to run a game.
Its sort of like all the guys who think they're economics majors trying to analyse where every single credit on Rifts Earth comes from.
We can't do that now and we have computers tracking almost everything on a global scale.
I never figured out why people need that kind of information to HAVE FUN IN A GAME!
===================
End Of Rant.

[Toc Rat]

Personally, I think thats WAAAY too much background knowledge just to run a game.

I never figured out why people need that kind of information to HAVE FUN IN A GAME!
===================
End Of Rant.

Have you ever had one of those players that hit you with some out of the box thinking on how to deal with a plot hook you throw at them? Or the ones that just seem to like going a completly different direction then what every single clue you left for them points to? You've had to run with them, the Inspector Clouseau types.

Perhaps the GM in question just wants/needs all the information and or ideas he can possibly get for running his group. The proverbial "Loading up for Bear".

[Greeter]

Personally, I think thats WAAAY too much background knowledge just to run a game.

I never figured out why people need that kind of information to HAVE FUN IN A GAME!
===================
End Of Rant.

Have you ever had one of those players that hit you with some out of the box thinking on how to deal with a plot hook you throw at them? Or the ones that just seem to like going a completly different direction then what every single clue you left for them points to? You've had to run with them, the Inspector Clouseau types.

Perhaps the GM in question just wants/needs all the information and or ideas he can possibly get for running his group. The proverbial "Loading up for Bear".

Thank you Toc Rat.

The campaign is a very old one (started in 1991 with the release of the Rifts Conversion Book). The group has been through multiple timelines. In this particular one the group (with knowledge gained from past timelines) has gained control of Archie3's Aberdeen complex (minus Archie). They are now trying to save Tolkeen. It would be very helpful to know, or at least have a ballpark figure on, how many robots can be built per month (especially since three of the player characters are techno wizards with hardware skills from HU).

The players really want to know what are Aberdeens capabilities (especially since sooner or later the Coalition is going to show up on their front door step).

Now I could take the numbers of all the robots built (given in various sections of the books), add them together, and divide by the amount of time that passed since the arrival of the Mechanoids. Unfortunately we are given numbers that possibly include robots manufactured at other locations so it throws things off a bit.

I figured I could simply come here, where there are many Rifts enthusiasts, to see what ideas they had. Many of them have been very helpful (especially with the reference to Rifts Aftermath).

I have been blessed with many players who like to really get into the game. They could tell you what are the PCs favorite colors, vehicles, movies, etc. Most things I can figure out "on the fly", but this particular one had me clueless. I didn't have a good reference for just what are Archie's building capabilities. I needed to know what type of impact it could have on saving Tolkeen.

A big THANK YOU to those who have been very helpful.

[Greeter]

Fascinating Greeter,

Are you going to publish what your game has been up to the recent years?

My FLGS has been generous in allowing us to keep track of our game on their website. I haven't added the timelines of past groups yet so it only has the timeline for the present group (started shortly after the store was opened) plus the timeline for that world.

I had mine taking over the Archie complex after the mechanoids.

ARCHIE has now relearned the advantage of working with good humans.

I bet they enjoyed it. All of my groups have loved access to Archie3 and/or Archie units.

I was thinking aberrant mechanoids in Shemarrian bodies?

It sounds like a fun idea. I'll have to remember that one.

[finn69]

you dont need any more ideas you have enough of your own.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Archie should be underwater. If Baltimore is underwater then Aberdeen sure should be as well.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oi=map&q=Aberdeen,+MD

where does it say baltimore is underwater?

[Shorty Lickens]

I dont know if Baltimore is underwater or not, but its been made very clear in multiple books that Aberdeen is above water.
HOWEVER, as with all things its your campaign, and if you think ARCHIE would be based underwater then go for it.

Those can be some fun adventures, especially if the group has no native aquatics. Trying to keep your underwater gear working might be more exciting than combat.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Archie should be underwater. If Baltimore is underwater then Aberdeen sure should be as well.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oi=map&q=Aberdeen,+MD

where does it say baltimore is underwater?

Baltimore is at sea level and it is on the Chesapeake Bay. So is Aberdeen proving grounds. I have created a complex mathematical formula that takes into account the land mass of Atlantis and the subsequent water displacement it would cause. However I cannot share this with you

You are right it never explicitly states that Baltimore is underwater. Logically it should be.

this is rifts logic has nothing to do with it

baltimore city ranges in height from sea level to 480ft above it

[R Ditto]

On the subject of Archie and Nanotech.

I got to thinking about how Archie's nanotech is supposed to be limited... that means he should still have nanotech that does some of the basic things nanotech can be used for.

IMO, "basic" nanotech means Archie should be able to make materials and parts/components for things, but in a somewhat complex and time consuming manner.

One of the most basic things that could be done with nanotech is to process/recycle materials by simply removing what you want (or don't want) to make a 'pure' collection of material that you want/need, or even just turning one material into another or breaking it down into its base elements.
It would probably have to be done in a controlled environment and require a bit of time and power, and be limited to working with materials and making parts that need to be built small (such as computer components).

Sure, he cannot just toss a blob of nanites outside and have it turn a big tree into a few dozen robots in a matter of minutes, but "basic" nanotech should mean he at least has the ability to the things I mentioned above. Things such as taking said tree, tossing it into a nanotech based processing system and just wait a while (maybe a few hours) for the nanites to take it apart on the molecular scale. He could then use the base elements acquired to make just about any other material he might need. Then he could use those elements in another basic nanotech based system that is made to make/form materials into assorted shapes or parts, one part at a time.
He lets his industrial capacity and other stuff handle the tasks of making all the other parts/components that can be made faster than just waiting for nanites to building something 'complex' on the molecular level.

It is limited in what it can do, but it still gives him an advantage in that he could expand his base underground, and then use the dirt/rock excavated to make the materials needed for the walls and such. Or even just recycle other things into materials he needs. With time and patience, he can probably even duplicate complex items over time by making it piece by piece and then assembling the pieces with his factory stuff.

If Archie had "good" nanotech, he could use it to make much of his stuff, probably put out a few robots in an hour using whatever he had on hand. If he had "advanced" nanotech, he could do stuff like in the Deus Ex or System Shock 2 computer games and other sci-fi settings with 'advanced' nanotech, right down to the point where he could recycle just about anything(including dirt, rocks, living things, water, etc) and make it into useable stuff in a matter of seconds. He could even have one of his Skelebot spies sneak a small canister into a CS base, wait for it to activate, and after a few minutes, no more CS base and a whole lot of Archie brand stuff running around.

On the scary side, "basic/limited" nanotech means that Archie could create a "gray goo" scenario if he wasn't careful (or if he wanted to)... and yes, even stuff like vampires and supernatural beings like a Splugorth probably would not be safe from it... even basic nanotech can be scary stuff.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

and yes, even stuff like vampires and supernatural beings like a Splugorth probably would not be safe from it... even basic nanotech can be scary stuff.

How do you figure?

I could see the argument for the other two, but Vampires? No, I can't see that working on them.

~ Josh

[R Ditto]

and yes, even stuff like vampires and supernatural beings like a Splugorth probably would not be safe from it... even basic nanotech can be scary stuff.

How do you figure?

I could see the argument for the other two, but Vampires? No, I can't see that working on them.

~ Josh

Vampires are made up of solid matter like anything else, if the nanites are fast enough, they can tear apart a vampire into its base molecular componants faster than it can regenerate, resulting in nothing left to regenerate.

Vampire fully regenerates in a matter of minutes (if they weren't recovering from being un-staked, iirc), a "gray goo" scenario with enough nanites, (or just a lot of nanites wanting to take the vampire apart) will reduce the vampire (and just about anything else)at a terrifying speed, a matter of a few seconds. Even werebeasts might not be safe. It's technological overkill, like having cave men messing around with and accidentally setting off a strategic nuclear device.

For nanites being released specifically to take out "difficult" stuff, prep the little buggers with silver type stuff or make their casings from pure silver or some magically infused material then they would probably make them very much more lethal to vampires and werebeasts... heck, such tweaking could probably make them affective against a vampire in mist form... before the vampire realizes what hit it, it doesn't have a physical body left... (Hmm... vampire ghost anyone?)

Heck, have them just convert the vampire's/werebeast's mass into silver (and/or water for vampires), even "stake" them from the inside... If the nanites aren't to fast... well, I don't want to think about it...

Nanotech is scary, freaky, and is a nightmare waiting to happen if not properly used (probably why Archie hasn't done much with it over the years, one wrong move and...)
With the right modifications, nanites would be able to do just about anything...

If Archie did put his mind into developing his nanotech capabilities, he could probably get the ball rolling pretty fast.



Nanotech, Sci-Fi's very scary "Big Stick".

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Archie knowledge of Nano-tech is limited and archie and hagan normally do the large sizes but archie didnt have the means back in SB of doing Nanotech , but now he might have the means now just lacks the vision lets say NEXUS has

[shadrak]

Unless your nanites are made of wood or silver, or have microscopice water picks, or are magical in nature, I don't see it happening...Vampires are invulnerable to most things.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Unless your nanites are made of wood or silver, or have microscopice water picks, or are magical in nature, I don't see it happening...Vampires are invulnerable to most things.

Exactly.

Vampires operate outside the realm of scientific understanding.

So thus, the nanites would do squat to them, unless they were wooden, silver, etc.

~ Josh

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Unless your nanites are made of wood or silver, or have microscopice water picks, or are magical in nature, I don't see it happening...Vampires are invulnerable to most things.

Exactly.

Vampires operate outside the realm of scientific understanding.

So thus, the nanites would do squat to them, unless they were wooden, silver, etc.

~ Josh

lets see, speciality design nanties, (in this case, nanaties designed to draw water from the body) could draw water from a vampire body by drawing fluids and release them when they are full

one minute vampire is fine, next moment his head fall off and torso falls in a couple of pieces via the nanites jet blasting the water out in a quick burst.

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Unless your nanites are made of wood or silver, or have microscopice water picks, or are magical in nature, I don't see it happening...Vampires are invulnerable to most things.

Exactly.

Vampires operate outside the realm of scientific understanding.

So thus, the nanites would do squat to them, unless they were wooden, silver, etc.

~ Josh

lets see, speciality design nanties, (in this case, nanaties designed to draw water from the body) could draw water from a vampire body by drawing fluids and release them when they are full

one minute vampire is fine, next moment his head fall off and torso falls in a couple of pieces via the nanites jet blasting the water out in a quick burst.

Vampires have water in there body?

AFAIK and IIRC they don't.

Even if they did, how would the nanites draw the water?

~ Josh

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Unless your nanites are made of wood or silver, or have microscopice water picks, or are magical in nature, I don't see it happening...Vampires are invulnerable to most things.

Exactly.

Vampires operate outside the realm of scientific understanding.

So thus, the nanites would do squat to them, unless they were wooden, silver, etc.

~ Josh

lets see, speciality design nanties, (in this case, nanaties designed to draw water from the body) could draw water from a vampire body by drawing fluids and release them when they are full

one minute vampire is fine, next moment his head fall off and torso falls in a couple of pieces via the nanites jet blasting the water out in a quick burst.

Vampires have water in there body?

AFAIK and IIRC they don't.

Even if they did, how would the nanites draw the water?

~ Josh

the body dies its doesnt dehydration, if it did, it would look like a mummy, but remember blood has plasma and plasma is 92% water, but then again no one has really took the job of figuring out a vampire and what it does with the blood so.............take that how ever you want

[R Ditto]

Unless your nanites are made of wood or silver, or have microscopice water picks, or are magical in nature, I don't see it happening...Vampires are invulnerable to most things.

Exactly.

Vampires operate outside the realm of scientific understanding.

So thus, the nanites would do squat to them, unless they were wooden, silver, etc.

~ Josh

lets see, speciality design nanties, (in this case, nanaties designed to draw water from the body) could draw water from a vampire body by drawing fluids and release them when they are full

one minute vampire is fine, next moment his head fall off and torso falls in a couple of pieces via the nanites jet blasting the water out in a quick burst.

Vampires have water in there body?

AFAIK and IIRC they don't.

Even if they did, how would the nanites draw the water?

~ Josh

Vampires were once living beings.
Vampires drink blood, and don't they bleed if you stake them in the heart?
Blood has water in it.
And last I checked, the vampire killing bite doesn't freeze dry the body of the victim (and the human body is made up of over 70% water)

Nanites are capable of taking apart, assembling, reassembling, rearranging and even moving molecules/atoms, so one just needs to have the nanites only collect a specific amount of a certain molecule, in this case, water.

The water jet thing could also be possible, the nanites build up a water supply, link themselves together to build some sort of water venting system, and then go to work. If people want to say there is no water in a vampire (in which case they should be dry as a brick and have no blood in general), then the nanites just hang around the skin area and get the water from the air.

Vampires were living beings that were killed and then came back as a vampire, they don't turn into some indestructible dehydrated super alloy, they simply have the habit of regenerating at extreme speed IMO...

IMO, their invulnerability is more due to their super regeneration rather than simply not taking 'damage' from stuff. Like a bullet going clean through them or otherwise going in and quickly being ejected, rapid healing with no pain makes the wound vanish in the blink of an eye. (kind of like in some movies with things that can only be truly harmed by certain things.)

On the note of being "invulnerable" to almost everything.
In HU2 is the Invulnerability power... One group (S.H.O.C.K.) in Aliens Unlimited has a containment cell with special ion/particle beams for bars, with the particle beams even effecting the invulnerable characters, because it affects them on the molecular/atomic level.
Similar to how Impervious to Energy doesn't protect against nuclear effects, because nuclear effects are taking place on the atomic/nuclear level.

What is invulnerable on the macro scale may not be invulnerable on the micro or nanoscopic scale.
A GB might be able to take an LRM nuke and be intact, or not even be scratched by a small army with UZis and Assault Rifles, but even a small amount of nanites can have a GB reduced to its base elements, all they need is a little bit of time (or a lot of time if they aren't to fast/advanced).
To the big world, something is a super dense and nearly indestructible material, to nanites, it a forested area made of toy building blocks that can be taken apart and put back together anyway they please, or just take apart and leave the blocks laying around..

For a very scary anti-vampire tactic...
Take 'larger' nanites and have them carry a payload of holy water. Nanites are so small/light, they could literally "swim" through air (even on a windy day)... they get within a vampire, and when enough get into the vampire, they congregate around the heart and then unleash their payload into the vampires heart...
Or have them carry a payload of silver (or bring along nanites made of silver) and rapidly assemble a silver needle in the vampires heart.
The first will hurt like heck, the second will probably cause the vampire to twitch funny and fall over due to being staked from within.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Unless your nanites are made of wood or silver, or have microscopice water picks, or are magical in nature, I don't see it happening...Vampires are invulnerable to most things.

Exactly.

Vampires operate outside the realm of scientific understanding.

So thus, the nanites would do squat to them, unless they were wooden, silver, etc.

~ Josh

lets see, speciality design nanties, (in this case, nanaties designed to draw water from the body) could draw water from a vampire body by drawing fluids and release them when they are full

one minute vampire is fine, next moment his head fall off and torso falls in a couple of pieces via the nanites jet blasting the water out in a quick burst.

Vampires have water in there body?

AFAIK and IIRC they don't.

Even if they did, how would the nanites draw the water?

~ Josh

Vampires were once living beings.
Vampires drink blood, and don't they bleed if you stake them in the heart?
Blood has water in it.
And last I checked, the vampire killing bite doesn't freeze dry the body of the victim (and the human body is made up of over 70% water)

Nanites are capable of taking apart, assembling, reassembling, rearranging and even moving molecules/atoms, so one just needs to have the nanites only collect a specific amount of a certain molecule, in this case, water.

The water jet thing could also be possible, the nanites build up a water supply, link themselves together to build some sort of water venting system, and then go to work. If people want to say there is no water in a vampire (in which case they should be dry as a brick and have no blood in general), then the nanites just hang around the skin area and get the water from the air.

Vampires were living beings that were killed and then came back as a vampire, they don't turn into some indestructible dehydrated super alloy, they simply have the habit of regenerating at extreme speed IMO...

IMO, their invulnerability is more due to their super regeneration rather than simply not taking 'damage' from stuff. Like a bullet going clean through them or otherwise going in and quickly being ejected, rapid healing with no pain makes the wound vanish in the blink of an eye. (kind of like in some movies with things that can only be truly harmed by certain things.)

On the note of being "invulnerable" to almost everything.
In HU2 is the Invulnerability power... One group (S.H.O.C.K.) in Aliens Unlimited has a containment cell with special ion/particle beams for bars, with the particle beams even effecting the invulnerable characters, because it affects them on the molecular/atomic level.
Similar to how Impervious to Energy doesn't protect against nuclear effects, because nuclear effects are taking place on the atomic/nuclear level.

What is invulnerable on the macro scale may not be invulnerable on the micro or nanoscopic scale.
A GB might be able to take an LRM nuke and be intact, or not even be scratched by a small army with UZis and Assault Rifles, but even a small amount of nanites can have a GB reduced to its base elements, all they need is a little bit of time (or a lot of time if they aren't to fast/advanced).
To the big world, something is a super dense and nearly indestructible material, to nanites, it a forested area made of toy building blocks that can be taken apart and put back together anyway they please, or just take apart and leave the blocks laying around..

For a very scary anti-vampire tactic...
Take 'larger' nanites and have them carry a payload of holy water. Nanites are so small/light, they could literally "swim" through air (even on a windy day)... they get within a vampire, and when enough get into the vampire, they congregate around the heart and then unleash their payload into the vampires heart...
Or have them carry a payload of silver (or bring along nanites made of silver) and rapidly assemble a silver needle in the vampires heart.
The first will hurt like heck, the second will probably cause the vampire to twitch funny and fall over due to being staked from within.

well done

[R Ditto]

I'm surprised that Archie has only limited nanotech still.
With his capabilities, if he were to put any real effort into improving his nanotech, he should be able to advance it really fast, perhaps in a period of years or even months, since he is an effective expert when it comes to robotics, computers and such.

Archie is sitting on a veritable technological gold mine, and he probably doesn't even realize it... let's pray he doesn't find a pre-rifts copy of any Deus Ex or System Shock computer game or other sci-fi story/setting (or scientific/technological data) that shows him just what all nanotech could do...
If he did realize the potential power it would offer him, the world is going to have a big problem on its hand.

well done

Thanks.
I'ts amazing when some creativity and thinking outside of the box can come up with some very effective points...
That and nanotech is one of my more favorite sci-fi subjects at times, even if their potential does scare me at times.
(although being a fan of games like Deus Ex and System Shock series helps)

I got evem more ideas for science/tech triumphing over pesky supernatural critters such as vampires.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I'm surprised that Archie has only limited nanotech still.
With his capabilities, if he were to put any real effort into improving his nanotech, he should be able to advance it really fast, perhaps in a period of years or even months, since he is an effective expert when it comes to robotics, computers and such.

Archie is sitting on a veritable technological gold mine, and he probably doesn't even realize it... let's pray he doesn't find a pre-rifts copy of any Deus Ex or System Shock computer game or other sci-fi story/setting (or scientific/technological data) that shows him just what all nanotech could do...
If he did realize the potential power it would offer him, the world is going to have a big problem on its hand.

well done

Thanks.
I'ts amazing when some creativity and thinking outside of the box can come up with some very effective points...
That and nanotech is one of my more favorite sci-fi subjects at times, even if their potential does scare me at times.
(although being a fan of games like Deus Ex and System Shock series helps)

I got evem more ideas for science/tech triumphing over pesky supernatural critters such as vampires.

nanotech is deadly if you know how to use it, look at T'Zee of Phase world and N.E.X.U.S. of the nastier side of nanotech.

Archie ever moves towards using nantech more , the more dangerous he will become, and sooner or later its going to happen

[Greeter]

Just think of the possibilities. The group is fine one moment and suddenly both their bodies and their equipment is experiencing problems. They can't detect any magic or psionics at work. It sounds like some neat stuff to get the players to think out of the box.

[R Ditto]

Just think of the possibilities. The group is fine one moment and suddenly both their bodies and their equipment is experiencing problems. They can't detect any magic or psionics at work. It sounds like some neat stuff to get the players to think out of the box.

Other things to get them to think outside of the box would be the interior of a strange building or other enclosed location, and when they aren't looking, the walls actually shift around. They go back to check a previous corridor to find there is a wall instead, and a different corridor branches off a little farther down the present corridor they are in.

Another thing would be things that appear or disappear without warning, like some sort of techno-organic or tech based thing that either appears when they aren't looking (say coming from a dead end around a corner the just checked) or even vanish without a trace (it goes around a corner, they follow, they see a dead end with no where to go).
It could be due to the walls moving, or because the thing is really made of a collection of nanites that simply "melts" and passes through the walls seamlessly, or perhaps the walls have nanotech and they create or absorb the thing.

It makes for one big shifting labyrinth complete with wild goose chases.

Another thing that comes to mind would be nanites built as energy capacitors, they could either carry/transfer and energy charge, or draw it right out of something. Imagine the shock on the groups faces when they realize all their weapons have had their e-clips mysteriously drained while passing through a room that seemed to be filled with a light erie mist... or explosive weapons (such as grenades, missiles, fusion blocks, maybe even bullets) effectively "defused" and unable to function.

Or what happens if a juicer finds themselves feeling really odd, and they pass out, they wake up to worried friends and find their bio-comp is fried, their chemicals gone, and their bodies turned back to their original non-juiced selves...
Heck, imagine a borg (or crazy) that goes through a hideously painful sounding experience that leaves them a normal person in the middle of a bunch of now unused cybernetics.

It would be a good way to stick them in a situation where they have to use their brains for a change, because all of their main offensive options have been disabled or rendered 'normal'.

And the big kicker, Telemechanic powers might not work well, the nanites are so numerous and tiny that it would be 'impossible' for a psychic to focus on 'one' of them. They would probably have to "think small" to figure it out, but even then, if they did get the specs for a 'complex robot', it does them no good if they can't figure out why they can't see any robot that matches what the psychic got a visualization of when using telemechanics... they might think they are dealing with ultra-cloaked robots if they don't figure out the nanotech angle... but then again, toss in a hive mind AI to make it next to impossible for even a psi-tech to do much with them other than figure out there is tiny robots/nanotech involved.