F-14G2 'Super Tomcat'- Fixing an anachronism.

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F-14G2 'Super Tomcat'- Fixing an anachronism.

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

I've always hated the F-14 from the Coalition navy book, due to the fact that it was horribly written, pretty much ignoring the real plane, which has always been a favorite of mine. So I decided to sit down, and write a decent version. I did some quick research to find out more about it, which also gave me some idea's on how to revise the fluff to make it better fit into the RIFTS universe. In addition, I realized that this fighter could also be used in the Robotech RPG game with little modification, much like the upgraded F-14's seen in the opening segment of Macross Zero.
--------------------------------------------

F-14G2 'Super Tomcat'

RIFTS:
With the advent of the second cold war, brought about by rampant orbital and suboceanic colonization, the world militaries began a crash program to make up for half a century of military neglect. The F-14D "Super Tomcat 21" program had been rejected in 1994, and the remaining fighters were retired by 2005, replaced by the F/A-18E 'Super Hornet'. However, with American military interests at an all time high, and America's allies desperately needing competitive hardware to protect their territorial claims, the project was resurrected. Compared to the technology of the day, the F-14 was primitive, but that lower tech nature made it simple to produce in numbers, at multiple automated factories across the country. Engine, Armor, Avionics, and Weaponry upgrades brought it in line with more recent developments, although it could not be called an equal to any contemporary aircraft being developed.

When the Rifts came on December 22nd, 2098, most of these aircraft were lost. However a great many had been sold worldwide at this point, and hundreds more were in storage for sale. In PA 95, elements of the Coalition States discovered one of these facilities, an armored refitting dry-dock facility containing three CVN(X) series aircraft carriers being refitted for export, and several hundred F-14G2 fighters. The Coalition already had the blueprints for this aircraft, buried in it's factory databases, and as of PA-95, the Coalition had 3 squadrons of F-14's for defense of Coalition territory. However, the manufacture of this fighter was seen as a low priority. When the Coalition Navy was formed, these fighters formed the backbone of the Navy air wings, until the Striker, Shrike, and Dagger could be deployed.



Model Type: Grumman F-14G2 "Super Tomcat"
Class: Advanced Variable Wing Interceptor
Crew: Two. Pilot and Radar Intercept Officer (RIO)

M.D.C. by Location:
*Wings(2)- 25 each
**Wing glove missile pylons- 5 each
Reinforced Pilots Compartment- 20
*Main body- 90
Vertical Tails (2)- 10 each
Horizontal Stabilizers (2)- 15 each
***Engine Nacelles (2)- 30 each

* Destroying both wings or depleting the MDC of the main body will cause the aircraft to crash. loss of a wing will reduce the aircrafts flight range by 1/3rd.
** The Wing Glove missile pylons are small targets and hard to hit, -4 to strike.
*** Destroying one of the engine nacelles will reduce the maximum speed to subsonic (about 500mph/800kmh). Destroying both engine nacelles will cause the plane to crash.


Speed:
Flying: Twin F220-600 Turbofan engines enable the fighter to achieve the velocity of Mach 2.3 (1515mph/2424kmh). typical cruising speed is mach 1.2 (792mph/1267.2kmh). the minimum velocity required to stay aloft is 110 mph (176kmh), any lower and the plane will stall.
Max flight Altitude: 56,000 feet (16,800 meters)
Range: 800 miles (1280km). external fuel tanks mounted on the Nacelle hard points can extend this by 50%, to 1000 miles (1600km)
Bonuses: +2 to dodge.

Statistics:
Length: 18.6 m (61 ft 9 in)
Wingspan: 64 ft unswept, 38 ft swept (19 m / 11.4 m)
Height: 16 ft (4.8 m)
Empty weight: 19,000 kg (42,000 lb)
Loaded weight: 28,000 kg (61,000 lb)
Cargo: none
Power system: Dual F220-GE-600 Turbofans.
Cost:
RIFTS- 32 million credits on the black market. only the Coalition States and Golden Age Weapon smiths are known to produce this aircraft. (GAW versions sell for 22 million credits, and lack the capacity to carry AIM-54E Phoenix Missiles.)

Weapon Systems:
M61A2 "Vulcan" 20mm Gatling cannon-
Primary Purpose: Anti-Aircraft
Secondary Purpose: Ground attack
Damage: 1D6x10 M.D. (30 round burst.)
Rate of Fire: Equal to the pilots Hand to Hand attacks per melee.
Effective Range: 2 miles (3.2 km)
Payload: 600 rounds in an ammo drum behind the cockpit. this is sufficient for 20 bursts.
Bonuses: The M61A2 is designed to 'scatter' the rounds in a shotgun like fashion, creating a cloud of lethal projectiles. This shotgun effect gives the weapon a +1 to strike.

Hard points(10)-
the F-14's primary armament is air to air missiles mounted on it's hard points. two missile's can be mounted on each wing glove missile pylon, 4 missiles can be carried on hard points between the engine nacelles, and two can be carried underneath the nacelles.
standard armament is medium range missiles. AIM-54E Phoenix extended range Air to Air Missiles can be equipped on 6 of the 10 hard points (one on each wing glove pylon, and 4 between the engines nacelles.), for long range interception.

Standard load outs:
Patrol-
2x External fuel tank
6x MRM (2 each wing glove pylon, 2 between engines.)
Fleet Defense-
2x External Fuel tank
4x AIM-54E Phoenix (between nacelles)
4x MRM (wing glove pylons)
Air to Air-
10X MRM
Rate of fire: special (see equipment). may fire volleys of up to 6 missiles at once. these missiles must be of the same type.

AIM-54E Enhanced Phoenix extended range Air to Air missile:
Upgraded versions of this medium sized, long ranged missile have been developed to give the Super Tomcat a massive engagement range.
Damage: 3d6x10 M.D.
Effective Range: 125 miles (200km)
Velocity: 3000mph (4800kmh)
Bonuses: +4 to strike, plus Weapon system bonuses.
Cost: 50,000 Cr. on the black market (per missile)

Medium Range Missile:
These dual guidance (RADAR/IR) missiles have replaced the Sidewinder and Sparrow missiles of the 2oth century.
Damage: varies based on warhead type
Range- varies based on warhead type.

Equipment:
all standard robot systems, plus;
1.) Hughes AN/APG-71C Enhanced radar system. can simultaneously identify and track up to 42 targets. 300 mile (480km) range
2.) Multi-Trac Targeting system: this advanced targeting computer allows the aircraft to engage 6 targets simultaneously using missiles. for 2 melee attacks, a single volley may target up to 6 separate aircraft.
3.) 'Smart Helmet' Vision Target Acquisition and Heads up Display: this helmet mounted system provides the pilot and RIO with an augmented reality heads up display built into the helmet visor. in addition, cockpit sensors track the movements of the pilots head, following his line of vision. this allows the pilot to designate targets by a mere glance, which greatly increases the combat effectiveness of the aircraft. this augmented reality system, combined with the HOTAS controls, means that the pilot and RIO never has to rely on standard instruments. A full set of standard HUD's and displays are included however for redundancy. With the system active, the aircraft has a +2 to initiative.
4.) Flare launchers. this system ejects a quartet of flares on either side of the aircraft, which has the advantage of confusing missile guidance systems. (this system can be activated as a free action. it provides the equivalent of a +2 'Auto-dodge' against missiles. +3 if the missiles are employing only IR tracking methods. if the use of the system is combined with a standard dodge, apply the bonus to the standard dodge.) the Flare launchers contain enough flares for 10 uses.


-----------------
ok, Credit time. first, Grumman, for designing and building the F-14. second, the US Navy, for accepting it over it's competetors. third, wikipedia.org, for information on the F-14D, the M61A2 20mm Gatling, the AIM-54 Phoenix, and the like. it is also thanks to wikipedia, as well as several F-14 image sites, that i had the images i did to accompany this design.

i'd also like to thank Palladium Books, especially Patrick Nowak, as he created the stats in sourcebook 4: Coalition Navy which provided not only a referance point, but also a great example of 'what not to do.' no hard feelings Nowak, the rest of the book was great.



also, since i mentioned possible use in Robotech:


ROBOTECH:
In 1996, with world tensions mounting and war looming with both the Soviet Union and the Peoples Republic of China, the United States drastically needed to update their military. Several proposals that otherwise would have been dropped were instead implemented, including the acceleration of both the YF-22 Raptor program and the YF-23 Joint Strike Fighter program, resurrecting the AH-56 Cheyenne Program, and implementing the F-302 'Dragon' program.

One of the less publicized programs was the F-14E "Super Tomcat 21" program, which replaced the existing F-14 tomcats in Navy service with much needed upgraded versions. The F-14F was introduced in 1996, and added an improved electronics and control suite to the fighter. The F-14G in 1997 upgraded the engines to F110 derivatives, increasing fuel efficiency and providing 'super cruise' capability. These advanced fighters served until the introduction of the multi-role F-302 in 1998, which quickly replaced them in the front line roles.

With the technological renaissance made possible by the crash of the SDF-1, the F-14G models were further upgraded with new 'super-alloy' armor and refitted to utilize the new advanced missile munitions. The F-14E2 saw no action against the Zentreadi during the First Robotech war, although a large number of fighters did survive the Rain of Death due to the scramble orders that placed many of the combat ready aircraft in the air to counter an expected Zentreadi invasion. During the reconstruction, the RDF placed this fighter back into limited production for sale to less advanced allies, and a large number of those aircraft were sold again on the black market to the EBSIS and rebel factions.
Robotech- 52 million plus on the black market. these fighters are not legally for sale except to allied nations.
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Unread post by Alpha 11 »

Good job with it. :ok:
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Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

thanks. the hard part was explaining why 105 year old fighters were sitting in a bunker.

i chose the drop GAW from the discovery entirely, since it never made sense that they would work together, given the CS's stated veiws on GAW's operation in Merc's.
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Re: F-14G2 'Super Tomcat'- Fixing an anachronism.

Unread post by Josh Sinsapaugh »

glitterboy2098 wrote:much like the upgraded F-14's seen in the opening segment of Macross Zero.


*Sigh*

Macross Zero is not part of Robotech.

Macross Zero, Macross Plus, Macross 2, Macross DYRL, Macross Seven, etc. are part of "Macross" the Japanese Anime that Robotech is based (some would say ripped) off of.

It's confusing because of Robotech: The Macross Saga.

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Unread post by BookWyrm »

GB, this brought tears of joy to my eyes. My father was part of Grumman during the F-14 development, and he & I share a small amount of pride for the ol' Tomcat. Your work truly pays homage to it. Bravo. :ok:
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Re: F-14G2 'Super Tomcat'- Fixing an anachronism.

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:much like the upgraded F-14's seen in the opening segment of Macross Zero.


*Sigh*

Macross Zero is not part of Robotech.

Macross Zero, Macross Plus, Macross 2, Macross DYRL, Macross Seven, etc. are part of "Macross" the Japanese Anime that Robotech is based (some would say ripped) off of.

It's confusing because of Robotech: The Macross Saga.

~ Josh


i know i you recall, i've straightened out people on that before. what i was saying was that these stats could be used in robotech the same way we saw a similar upgrade in macross zero.
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Re: F-14G2 'Super Tomcat'- Fixing an anachronism.

Unread post by Josh Sinsapaugh »

glitterboy2098 wrote:
Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:much like the upgraded F-14's seen in the opening segment of Macross Zero.


*Sigh*

Macross Zero is not part of Robotech.

Macross Zero, Macross Plus, Macross 2, Macross DYRL, Macross Seven, etc. are part of "Macross" the Japanese Anime that Robotech is based (some would say ripped) off of.

It's confusing because of Robotech: The Macross Saga.

~ Josh


i know i you recall, i've straightened out people on that before. what i was saying was that these stats could be used in robotech the same way we saw a similar upgrade in macross zero.


:ok: Sorry for the confusion.

~ Josh
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Unread post by Alpha 11 »

BookWyrm wrote:GB, this brought tears of joy to my eyes. My father was part of Grumman during the F-14 development, and he & I share a small amount of pride for the ol' Tomcat. Your work truly pays homage to it. Bravo. :ok:


8) He was, cool! I believe the F-14 is one of the best planes out there. :-( Unfortinitly it is starting to show its age, so it will not be on the front lines for much longer. It will be missed. :-(
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Unread post by Shawn Merrow »

Alpha 11 wrote:
BookWyrm wrote:GB, this brought tears of joy to my eyes. My father was part of Grumman during the F-14 development, and he & I share a small amount of pride for the ol' Tomcat. Your work truly pays homage to it. Bravo. :ok:


8) He was, cool! I believe the F-14 is one of the best planes out there. :-( Unfortinitly it is starting to show its age, so it will not be on the front lines for much longer. It will be missed. :-(


They went out of service March 10th.

Squadron Homecoming Marks End of Era for Tomcats
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Unread post by BookWyrm »

Shawn Merrow wrote:
Alpha 11 wrote:
BookWyrm wrote:GB, this brought tears of joy to my eyes. My father was part of Grumman during the F-14 development, and he & I share a small amount of pride for the ol' Tomcat. Your work truly pays homage to it. Bravo. :ok:


8) He was, cool! I believe the F-14 is one of the best planes out there. :-( Unfortinitly it is starting to show its age, so it will not be on the front lines for much longer. It will be missed. :-(


They went out of service March 10th.

Squadron Homecoming Marks End of Era for Tomcats


I know, it was disheartening. I clearly remember watching the last Tomcat take off from Calverton, on the news. But the fight to preserve ourt aerial freedom must follow the SOTA or be caught lacking.
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Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

BookWyrm wrote:
Shawn Merrow wrote:
Alpha 11 wrote:
BookWyrm wrote:GB, this brought tears of joy to my eyes. My father was part of Grumman during the F-14 development, and he & I share a small amount of pride for the ol' Tomcat. Your work truly pays homage to it. Bravo. :ok:


8) He was, cool! I believe the F-14 is one of the best planes out there. :-( Unfortinitly it is starting to show its age, so it will not be on the front lines for much longer. It will be missed. :-(


They went out of service March 10th.

Squadron Homecoming Marks End of Era for Tomcats


I know, it was disheartening. I clearly remember watching the last Tomcat take off from Calverton, on the news. But the fight to preserve ourt aerial freedom must follow the SOTA or be caught lacking.


the most annoying part is that the Tomcat upgrade proposal in '94 was dropped to free up funding for the 'A-12 Avenger', a planned replacement for the A-6 intruder.

then that program suffered the normal military redtape issues, and costs skyrocketed. and then it was cancelled.

so if the Navy had been smart, we'd still have the Tomcat, and we'd not be relying entirely on 1 aircraft design for more than half the roles. :(

not dissing the hornet, but relying too heavily on one design runs the risk of making our military either too generalized, or too specialized.

the Hornet is a 'jack of all trades, master of none'. making it replace so many specialized aircraft designs reduces over all performance in those roles.

i pretty much feel the same way about the Airforce and their efforts to cram the F-16 into every non-air to air role. a mach 2 general purpose fighter can't replace a slow moving, armored ground attack cradft like the A-10. no matter how many pages of reports you file.

sorry, i'll stop ranting before i get carried away.
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Unread post by Alpha 11 »

glitterboy2098 wrote:
BookWyrm wrote:
Shawn Merrow wrote:
Alpha 11 wrote:
BookWyrm wrote:GB, this brought tears of joy to my eyes. My father was part of Grumman during the F-14 development, and he & I share a small amount of pride for the ol' Tomcat. Your work truly pays homage to it. Bravo. :ok:


8) He was, cool! I believe the F-14 is one of the best planes out there. :-( Unfortinitly it is starting to show its age, so it will not be on the front lines for much longer. It will be missed. :-(


They went out of service March 10th.

Squadron Homecoming Marks End of Era for Tomcats


I know, it was disheartening. I clearly remember watching the last Tomcat take off from Calverton, on the news. But the fight to preserve ourt aerial freedom must follow the SOTA or be caught lacking.


the most annoying part is that the Tomcat upgrade proposal in '94 was dropped to free up funding for the 'A-12 Avenger', a planned replacement for the A-6 intruder.

then that program suffered the normal military redtape issues, and costs skyrocketed. and then it was cancelled.

so if the Navy had been smart, we'd still have the Tomcat, and we'd not be relying entirely on 1 aircraft design for more than half the roles. :(

not dissing the hornet, but relying too heavily on one design runs the risk of making our military either too generalized, or too specialized.

the Hornet is a 'jack of all trades, master of none'. making it replace so many specialized aircraft designs reduces over all performance in those roles.

i pretty much feel the same way about the Airforce and their efforts to cram the F-16 into every non-air to air role. a mach 2 general purpose fighter can't replace a slow moving, armored ground attack cradft like the A-10. no matter how many pages of reports you file.

sorry, i'll stop ranting before i get carried away.


I so agree with you. The Hornet it not a better replacement for the Tomcat. They sould have found a way to make things easier on fixing the plane. Something should not be replaced untile they come out with something that can out do it in that field. In the Tomcats case air to air combate. Washington is SOOOO stupid.
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Unread post by Alpha 11 »

mattling wrote:
Lord_Coake wrote:Washington and the scum-molds therein go by the "cheaper is better" rule. A prime example of why Congress should have absolutely no say whatsoever in the equipment loadout of any military force.

Politicians don't see combat effectiveness and keeping soldiers safe as top priorities. They want their kickbacks and dollar signs.


I know! F-14s would have been perfect for destroying the Al-Qaida Air Force.


Sorry, but I do not think Al-Qaida has an Air Force of any kind. Unless you count hijacking passager air lines and flying them into civilian buildings. :x
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Unread post by Dustin Fireblade »

mattling wrote:
Alpha 11 wrote:
mattling wrote:
Lord_Coake wrote:Washington and the scum-molds therein go by the "cheaper is better" rule. A prime example of why Congress should have absolutely no say whatsoever in the equipment loadout of any military force.

Politicians don't see combat effectiveness and keeping soldiers safe as top priorities. They want their kickbacks and dollar signs.


I know! F-14s would have been perfect for destroying the Al-Qaida Air Force.


Sorry, but I do not think Al-Qaida has an Air Force of any kind.


Then what do we need the F-14s for?


What the heck does this have to do with the topic of a aircraft being used in a fictional setting? :-?
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Unread post by Alpha 11 »

mattling wrote:
Alpha 11 wrote:
mattling wrote:
Lord_Coake wrote:Washington and the scum-molds therein go by the "cheaper is better" rule. A prime example of why Congress should have absolutely no say whatsoever in the equipment loadout of any military force.

Politicians don't see combat effectiveness and keeping soldiers safe as top priorities. They want their kickbacks and dollar signs.


I know! F-14s would have been perfect for destroying the Al-Qaida Air Force.


Sorry, but I do not think Al-Qaida has an Air Force of any kind.


Then what do we need the F-14s for?


Al-Quida is a band of terriest with no standing govenment, so it would not have an air force. At the most, a rag tag band army. If you could call it an army. As for needing the F-14, it is one of the best air superior fighters in the world. It can take on more targets then the F-18, if I remember right and they have not changed the F-18 since I read that info. Plus if we get into a shotting war with Iran, which is most likely, we are going to need the best of the best in fighter plans, with one of them being, the F-14. Plus with all the trouble we could have with China, we need it still. Untill they come up with something that can outdo the F-14 to replace it, they need to keep it.
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Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

please, please, lets not get into an arguement over this stuff.

as it is, the reason's for the F-14's retirement are valid. for all it's ability, it the existing planes are old, and hard to maintain. perhaps things would be different if the update program had been OK'd in '94, but that didn't happen.


i've been called on the choice to 'golden age' the F-14 over at nexusnine.net, and i'll just state my stance here as well.

i merely wanted to fix the plane's RPG stat's, and in doing so i opted to make a 'handwave' excuse for why a 105 year old design was sitting around in a 2098 era facility. sure, it's more likely that the US military would make an all new plane for the job, but it's better than saying the F-14 saw 120 years of service, or the Cs found a museum and actually refitted ancient SDC planes.


i've been asked about this over at N9, and i'll ask here, should i try to stat out a few other fighters same way? things like the F-15, the F-22, the F-35, and some of the old Soviet Mig's and Sukhoi's?
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Unread post by Alpha 11 »

glitterboy2098 wrote:please, please, lets not get into an arguement over this stuff.

as it is, the reason's for the F-14's retirement are valid. for all it's ability, it the existing planes are old, and hard to maintain. perhaps things would be different if the update program had been OK'd in '94, but that didn't happen.


i've been called on the choice to 'golden age' the F-14 over at nexusnine.net, and i'll just state my stance here as well.

i merely wanted to fix the plane's RPG stat's, and in doing so i opted to make a 'handwave' excuse for why a 105 year old design was sitting around in a 2098 era facility. sure, it's more likely that the US military would make an all new plane for the job, but it's better than saying the F-14 saw 120 years of service, or the Cs found a museum and actually refitted ancient SDC planes.


i've been asked about this over at N9, and i'll ask here, should i try to stat out a few other fighters same way? things like the F-15, the F-22, the F-35, and some of the old Soviet Mig's and Sukhoi's?


:oops: Sorry. Did not mean to cause a fuss. :oops: And yes, do it. The more, the merrier!
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Unread post by TechnoGothic »

mattling wrote:
Then what do we need the F-14s for?


to transform into kick arse mecha, thats what!!!! :lol:
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Unread post by Gomen_Nagai »

we do have those planes flying around .... in air shows every year.
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Unread post by Dustin Fireblade »

SheriBear wrote:Uh... sorry but why the hell would an 120 year old plane be in any military hanger in the first place? It would like be having planes from WWI still around and flying today


Well you'll have to ask Palladium why they have/use so many 20th century designs. No it don't make sense. GB2098 is simply fixing what he saw as a error in stats and a alternative back story.
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Dustin Fireblade
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Unread post by Dustin Fireblade »

Again, you'll need to ask Palladium about it. Have you seen Merc Ops? They have a ton of 20th century stuff in it. Like I said it doesn't make any sense, but its there and GB is simply offering a different take on it.
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Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

SheriBear wrote:Uh... sorry but why the hell would an 120 year old plane be in any military hanger in the first place? It would like be having planes from WWI still around and flying today


that was my question.

in Source Book 4: Coalition navy, Golden Age Weaponsmiths discovered a sealed armored drydock submerged along the east coast. inside, they found 3 Nimitz class Super carriers in various states of upgrade,and 144 F-14D Tomcat's, stats Circa 1985. they then modded the planes to carry standard MDC missiles, and sold the whole package to the coalition.
as of the cataclysm, these planes would have been 113+ years old. the planes then sat in a bunker underwater for 300 years. and we're to beleive they were in useable condition.

the stats were pathetic too. 18 mdc main body. one hit with any MDC weapon will kill the thing.

so, since i liked the plane, and didn't mind the anacronism so much as the nonsense we were fed to make it happen, i decided to write my own version.

i researched the proposed upgrade program from back in 95, then added some concepts from more modern programs to boot. i then reverse engineered the plane back to rough SDC stats, and properly converted it to MDC and 21st century technology.

i tied it's fluff into my view of the 'golden age', one where militaries lacked any new design developments between 2020 and the 2080's. because of the tech fueled peaceful relations, no funding was available for most military projects. at best, versions of existing designs modded to use the advancing technology were made. so in 2070, the USA was still using F-22's and F-35's, albiet MDC armored and equipped with MDC missiles and guns.

then the 'new cold war' hit. militaries can now write themselves a blank check. most of the big powers sink billions into combat powered armor, robots, new fighters, ships, powerful energy weapons. the smaller nations also need to arm themselves, but don't have the budget or industry to do homegrown designs. so various companies dust off older designs that would be competitive against the 'golden age' designs, and churned them out and sold them off. the boneyards go bare as retired ships are refit and sold, instead of destroyed. by 2098, the first of the newer designs are in service, there is a new generation being built, and the stopgap designs are being phased out by most and sold off. then it's 2098 and the end of the world.


the armored drydock was a shipping point, and the carriers and planes were one of the last shipments for sale to less advanced nations.


did i answer your question?
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Zer0 Kay
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Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

SkyStreak wrote:I suppose you could argue that when the US/North America moved onto power armor and Ticonderoga style weaponry they may have sold off all of their old, but still usable since the bulk of the world was still SDC, equipment to other nations or even small law enforcement groups....


They never cover what the U.S. Army or USAF get though.
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Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Lord_Coake wrote:Using real-life as an example, the USAF has most likely been reabsorbed by the Army and once again gecome the USAAC (United States Army Air Corps.).

They're also probably the most high-tech of all US military forces, exceeding even NEMA.


Even though we (USAF) are being trained to also take on ground combat roles it is as likely as the Marines being reabsorbed into the Navy. Right now the technology is a toss up between the USAF and the USN.
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Unread post by shadrak »

I doubt the B52 will make it that long. It's already been around too long and its role is very nearly obsolete.
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Alpha 11
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Unread post by Alpha 11 »

I just hope when they do replace the B-52, they have a replacement at least. They need to have at least one dedicated heavy bomber.
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Unread post by shadrak »

Which actually seems to make sense...at least for the hovercraft and weapon systems.
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Unread post by jedi078 »

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Even though we (USAF) are being trained to also take on ground combat roles it is as likely as the Marines being reabsorbed into the Navy.


Kind of hard for the Navy to absorb the USMC when the USMC has always been part of the Navy.....

Just look at the USMC seal you WILL see Dept. of the Navy written on it.
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