Naruni population...

[Braden Campbell]

In coming up with a size for the Naruni space fleet, I have discovered that NE only employs 200 million people in the Three Galaxies.

Hartigal Combine, however, employs 1 billion people in the Anvil Galaxy.

So... typo, methinks. Naruni has 200 billion employees?

[Marrowlight]

In coming up with a size for the Naruni space fleet, I have discovered that NE only employs 200 million people in the Three Galaxies.

Hartigal Combine, however, employs 1 billion people in the Anvil Galaxy.

So... typo, methinks. Naruni has 200 billion employees?

Maybe it was supposed to be 200 million Naruni? Probably not, but potentially.

[glitterboy2098]

the Naruni and NE aren't native to the 3G's, so the 200 million would be mostly sales staff.

Hartigal includes factory workes and support staf, so i can easily see 1 billion for them. of that, only about 100 million of so is likely to be sales.

[KLM]

In coming up with a size for the Naruni space fleet, I have discovered that NE only employs 200 million people in the Three Galaxies.

Hartigal Combine, however, employs 1 billion people in the Anvil Galaxy.

So... typo, methinks. Naruni has 200 billion employees?

Read further in DMB2 : 200 million employers and 1-3 billion temps.

So, Hartigal's 1 billion (probably 90% temps) make more sense.

Still, I would add a zero to those stats - except of course if those
people are only selling stuff, manufacturing is done in their home
dimension. (Which is not the case, according to other NE stuff in
further DMB's).

Adios
KLM

[Braden Campbell]

200 million sales staff is less than one guy per every solar system in the Three Galaxies....

Its got to be a typo.

[Greyaxe]

It is very likley that a company as well established as naruni with sales staff everywhere on space stations planets and such could sustain an employee base of 200 Billion. With multiple representatives on each planet naruni has a presence on and staff that process orders ship them manufacturing, 200 billion must be the correct number of employees

[KLM]

200 million sales staff is less than one guy per every solar system in the Three Galaxies....

Its got to be a typo.

Not really. They can promote their stuffs through their reputation alone. People go looking for them, they do not necessarily look for their clients. Furthermore they don't produce their products in the 3G.

According to Anvil Galaxy, NE has several manufacturing planets.

Whereas the Hartigal needs so many (as mentioned by KLM) to run the plants, the sales team and other operations.....

Nope, I said, that Hartigal have about one half to one third of employees
(temps) compared to the NE.

So, with even the maximum number of temps, NE demographics
is - IMO - off with a magnitude. The Paradise Federation ALONE
commands a billion employed personell (approximately).

So we can go with like 20-25 billion "temps" at most.
This includes (wage)slaves, Repo-bots, whatever.

BtW, DMB2 mentions "Moloch Enforcers". Are they in
Naruni Wave 2?

Adios
KLN

[Ectoplasmic Bidet]

Yep, Moloch are in NW2...they're tree people...

[Braden Campbell]

Ok... lets look at it this way:

RadioShack has nearly 7000 stores in the USA (averaging 140 stores per state..."just around the corner").

When I worked at one of them we had about 9 guys (including one girl) on staff. If that is the average then RadioShack has 63,000 salesmen in the US alone.

This does not include my district managers, regional managers, the nice woman from security who would evaluate our store, Pipa - our hottie Rogers cell phone rep, all the guys who worked in tech support, accounting, and the guys who watched the robots load boxes in the main shipping warehouse.

But wait... after some very general number crunching, I have concluded that Naruni (if it has as many stores as RadioShack) would have about 200 million sales staff in the Consortium.*

But this number still does not include non-CCW planets, R&D staff, factory workers, accountants, or anyone else. So the number must still be way off.

_______________________________________
* figures that a planet with 6 billion people living on it would have 24 times the number of US stores... times 200 member Homeworlds.

[Braden Campbell]

1500 ships of flagship size: that is if they have a population of 200 billion.

That puts them just ahead of the UWW, but behind the Golgan Republik (and way behind the TGE and the CCW)

[Josh Sinsapaugh]

Yep, Moloch are in NW2...they're tree people...

No they're not.

They may be a plant-like alien, but they are in no way tree people...to say otherwise is to say that Narulians (from Splynn) and Cactus People (from New West) are tree people.

Plant-based life form does not automatically = tree people.

~ Josh

[Marrowlight]

Yep, Moloch are in NW2...they're tree people...

No they're not.

They may be a plant-like alien, but they are in no way tree people...to say otherwise is to say that Narulians (from Splynn) and Cactus People (from New West) are tree people.

Plant-based life form does not automatically = tree people.

~ Josh

But plant people just doesn't sound as cool!

[Esckey]

A NE ship is a really good advertisement for them, and since they're always out to make an extra buck wouldn't be to surprised if they use the ship as one big shopping mall(though keep in mind the stuff NE uses is better then the stuff they sell)

[KLM]

I have the gut feeling about NE, that even their (Uteni) personel
use stuff, which is behind their cutting edge by a millenia.

True Narunis of course... Thousand or more MDC personel
force fields, maybe personal D-shifting technology, etc.

After all, they are just a hairline from being an Alien
Intelligence.

And they only give away the absolutely neccessary tech level.
For example in the current Earth they would sell stuff, which is
inferior than the top-of-the-line US stuff, maybe in par with
the russian designs (plenty of market for those stuff, but industrial
espionage still would not threaten them) and definitely not the
Boomerang aerodyne.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Err... Maybe this is unrelated, but maybe an interesting
historical paralell.

So:
We (hopefully from documents) know the Ju-87 "Stuka"
dive bomber, which onboard siren made in analogous
to the "Blitzkrieg".

Now, the craft was outdated in the latter half of the WWII,
yet, hundreds were given to the Soviets. Now, after a couple
of years, those craft appeared in (North) Korea.

I think this illustrates, that the weapons market will buy
seemingly outdated stuff.
---
As for "we have Repo Bots"...

Well, in our GM-ing practice we learned not to include artifacts
or powerfull items for the villains - UNLESS it was ok, for the party
to gain them. The party LOOTS. Always.
I guess this - albeit probably not in this form - is hammered into NE
employees. And again, and again.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Think about it, would you sell the top of the line tech weapons to people who are friendly with your country? Being the government, you would probably never do so, just to keep your edge on these folks. Example: USA and Taiwan.

And there is a reason for it.

Once the British Goverment gave some Hurricane fighters
to Finnland. A couple of them ended in mock dogfight against
Luftwaffe units, evaluating their abilities. The year was 1940.

Adios
KLM

[glitterboy2098]

like the Jaffa helmets in the Stargate movie....

[Braden Campbell]

For even more crazyness, check this out....

The Thundercloud Galaxy is 1800 times bigger than the the Anvil, and the Corkscrew Galaxy is 9.6 times the size of the Thundercloud.

We assume that since Naruni doesn't do magic, and is hated by the Kreeghor, that they really only do business within the Consortium.

If Naruni has 200 million employees in the Anvil Galaxy, then they would have 360 billion employees in the Thundercloud, and 3 trillion employees in the Corkscrew. The total population for NE would then be 3.3 trillion people.

The population of the Consortium is 7 trillion.

So every second person you meet on the streets of a CCW city works, in some way for Naruni Enterprises!

[Braden Campbell]

Yes, it is a bit too much. Still, there is something very appealing to me in a Philip K. D ick-ish way about a society where everyone works for the same company in the long run...

Regardless, even if I multiply that caonical 200 million by three (one group for each galaxy) the resulting 600 million employees will still make them a close fourth place for largest fleet size in the Three Galaxies (4500 flagship-sized vessels, plus many smaller craft)

[Nekira Sudacne]

200 million sales staff is less than one guy per every solar system in the Three Galaxies....

Its got to be a typo.

and not even half the solar systems of the TG are inhabitied. your point?

[taalismn]

Thanks to automated technology and distribution, a handful of agents can do a lot of selling via electronic mediums, and send orders off to be delivered...so even if you factor in that a small percentage of NE employees are actually deployed as agents, and the rest as laborers, and even a percentage as working under non-automated conditions providing bulk raw materials, NE can still get a lot of work done..

Personally, I think NE is not just established in the THree Galaxies...it's just where they have the most visibile public profile...Like the Splugorth, their netwoek stretches over dozens, perhaps hundreds, of dimensions, meaning that they can shift resources from there as well to cover supply short-falls and losses...they don'tv LIKE to do that, as it implies that the staff and resources in a business sector/theater of operations aren't able to handle the situation, but as a last resort, they can do it...
The interdimensional angle also allows Naruni to hide sources of labor and material far from the prying eyes of their Three Galaxies' rivals, making it difficult for them to assess NE's potential manpower reserves and production output by watching what they're buying/producing(in terms of raw materials and food) locally in the THree Galaxies...

[Aramanthus]

These are some very interesting ideas. I like them all. I already use some of these ideas when I run my game. But it has been interesting to read everybodies ideas! Thank you for sharing them. I'm looking forward to reading more of them as time passes.

[Braden Campbell]

Correction:

If the Naruni have 2 Billion employees in each galaxy, then they can have about 14,000 of their super cargo cruisers. This would give them the third-largest number of flagships in the Three Galaxies, but a total fleet strength of only 35,000 ships. (fourth over all behind the Golgan, but bigger than the UWW)

I guess the over-all question is "how big do you want Naruni to be in your game"? And I've decided that they are pretty damn big.

[Aramanthus]

They are very big. But remember they have always conceal the exact size of their corporation. We know they are multidimensional, but we have no idea of exactly how many. GM call. I'd say the populations would have to be proportional to the size of the galaxy that they are working in.

[Braden Campbell]

Also as to relative power levels it mentions that the GSA (yes the CCW police force) is ready to crush the Naruni "like bugs" should they act up over this. So don't go too far in making the Naruni a feared naval presense.

The Consortium fleet numbers 407,283 vessels (19,000 of which are flagships); a ratio of 81:1 in favour of the CCW.

Believe me, it's not a problem...

[Braden Campbell]

"Flagship" is an umbrella term used to describe ships larger than a Cruiser (battleships, carriers,a nd dreadnoughts).

[Gomen_Nagai]

i also noticed the " Tri galactic Military Services " ... has a paltry sized army and only 200 flag ship class vessels.
I think Braden's numbers are going to overpopulate the three galaxies.

[Braden Campbell]

I don't see why it should. They are just a merc outfit after all, not a cross-galactic governement on a 500-year-long military buildup.

[Gomen_Nagai]

Well AU GG started the Grossly populated Spacelanes Anyway.. with The TGC having over 1 Million Ships in just 1 Galaxy.


but the TMS were mentioned as the 3g's largest Army and were used by Gov'ts all over them.


Their fleet size in branden's version makes em all... No more then a profiteering crew in employ of the CCW.

[Gomen_Nagai]

Might we know which page is that?

the first few paragraphs on the tagoniclongomerate mentions that they have over 1 Million craft in their employ and the most metropolis stations in Any one faction.


As for the Trigalactic Military Services, Mentions that they have under 1 million troops and a few thousand shuttles and 200 or so flag ships.
that's in PW Sb 1

[Aramanthus]

Actually the AU GG is not the same setting as the 3 Galaxies of Phase world. And the Tri Galacic are mercenaries not a universal power block.
There is a big difference comparing what you are trying to compare.

[Braden Campbell]

Going to address several things in one thread:

Just out of curiosity, is that just the CCW components (CAF, GSA, Exploration Corps, etc) or does it include the various hegemonies/aliances (Human, Noro, etc) as well as the various IDFs?

That is the entire Consortium fleet... half of which is not rigged for full combat (exploration, science missions, ferrying dignitaries, etc). It includes the Human Alliance, the Noro, the CCW half of the Wulfen Republic, and everybody else.

just wondering what is the firepower of each class compared to the others. Like would a flagship be 2x as powerful as a battleship? something of that sorts.

The difference is in sheer size and number of weapon systems (light, medium, and heavy) that they can mount. Battleships outgun a Carrier, but both are outgunned by a Dreadnought... and the dreadnought carries more fighters than the dedicated Carrier, which is why in the CCW "dreadnoughts" are actually called "super carriers".

but the TMS were mentioned as the 3g's largest Army and were used by Gov'ts all over them.

They are just that. They have 200 frigates (probably rigged as destroyers), 120 cruisers (most likely old Warshields), and 20 battleships (those you'll have to make up... no way are they actual Protectors). That's a total of 340 capital ships. By my writing and mathematics, that is the same sized fleet that an independent planet of 6 billion people could afford to build and maintain! Not too bad for a bunch of ex-soldiers.

It would be waaay cheaper for any single, independent star system to hire TGMS than to build its own space fleet. By far.

Second has to do with the main cost of the high end capital ships. They have HUGE upkeep and personnel costs. THEY have large crew complements and need alot of costly maintenance.

A Warshield cruiser is the same size as an American aircraft carrier. It costs the US (currently) $13 billion to build one, and $1 million a day to keep it running. A battleship in Phase World is 13 times the size of an aircraft carrier... so its fair to say its costs will that much greater. At $13 million credits a day, times 20 battleships... well, they better be getting a LOT of contracts...

So... there you have it.

[Aramanthus]

Actually Braden. Capitol ships should not include Destroyers or smaller. Capitol ships have always been considered to be cruisers or larger.

[Esckey]

I don't think comparing the dollar cost of US aircraft carrier to a PW space ship is all that accurate. No telling how much an officer gets paid compared to a noncom, or how cheap it is to feed them. Or even the manufacturing costs of a sheet of MDC metal.

I think the fleet size of TMS is accurate, 120 warshields(old or new) is still gonna make almost anyone stop and reconsider what their doing.

[Braden Campbell]

Great.

I was going to respond by working out the actual cost, per day, of maintaining a Warsheild cruiser...


Then I realised that CAF Fleet officers have no salary.

Just one more thing to tuck into my manuscript, I guess...
__________________________________________________

BTW: it's very roughly about 48,000 per day

[Gomen_Nagai]

TMS officers Do have a sallary though. I think Salaries are mentioned in PW SB1.

[Aramanthus]

Thanks Gadrin and Inverse! Those are some numbers I can use.

[Aramanthus]

You have to make some money in some way in Phase World. It makes sense to me.

[Aramanthus]

I'm sure it's an eye opener for some of the other posters.

[Aramanthus]

And it is good for GMs to have a figure even experienced ones need help sometimes. But I appreciate all of the imput for this sort of thing. I wouldn't know the cost per ton except a friend and I discussed it for another game. I think it is great to have one for Phase world!

[taalismn]

always nice to be able to apply your real-life experiences to your hobbies....

[Aramanthus]

Yep I totally agree!