Physics Question

Nekira Sudacne · Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:53 pm

I don't see why not!

This is what you would call a Super Invention device with APS: Water, Polymorph, Shapeshifting, possibly Techno-Form, and Extordanary IQ (to give it intelligence and sentiance).

DocS · Unread post by **DocS** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:29 pm

gadrin wrote:I need some weird tech so...

the SpaceMaster Tech Book has an item in it called the "Static Cloak" which repels moisture by static charge on the surface of the item.

would it be possible to build a robot with Liquid Skin (tech variant of APS: Water or Liquid) and a swarm of microbots or nano that kept up a charge to keep it more or less coherent ?

I want something that can morph, from a water-balloon into a water snake or, water-humanoid.

Utterly impossible, see Rifts Sourcebook 1, page 24, "Robots may not have liquid skin because there is no method in the megaverse to keep the skin coherent...... not even nanobots, and not even if it results in a cool cross between the T-1000 and a water wiggle".

It's a lesser known rule made by Kevin Simbeida, although counter-intuitive, one has to understand that Terminator 2 had been recently made so many players were asking about liquid variant cybernetic organisms and Kevin wanted to prevent any possibility of being sued by James Cameron. Lots of money was being made by Warner Brothers at the time, and they were already getting sued by Harlan Ellison so they were feeling rather litigous themselves so Palladium needed to spend a four year period working to prevent anything in their books from having any similarity to any Warner Brothers project, luckily no Knight movies or Ninja movies were made by Warner Brothers at this time, so Palladium simply worked with those elements.

However, tongue implants can be used on the inside of your cheek (see Rifts bionics... page 42), so I'd suggest one of those robots instead.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:36 pm

darkmax wrote:huh?.... my question is does static really repel water droplets or moisture?

No it attractsit and water disipates the static charge.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:49 am

gadrin wrote:damn! I'm missing the head o'hair luckily I have a beard though.

PB canon one word: NPC -- tada! rules no longer apply

for this instance, I want something borderline outrageous, but has a whiff of physics.

hmmm, possibly a mono-filament "arterial" system holding a negative charge, and some sort of microbot "recovery team" to scoop up the lost drops or gain some from external source.

or maybe some sort of spider-web thin membrane to hold the liquid...doesn't have to be H20.

The easiest way that i see is just to have the nanobots BE the liquid.

They could have lots of little grabbers that are constanly propelling them around grabbing onto different nanobots making them liquid but have the outermost ones form a more organized skin that helps the others to retain shape. This is always how I have envisioned "liquid metal" type robots.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:09 am

gadrin wrote:
Thinyser wrote:The easiest way that i see is just to have the nanobots BE the liquid.

They could have lots of little grabbers that are constanly propelling them around grabbing onto different nanobots making them liquid but have the outermost ones form a more organized skin that helps the others to retain shape. This is always how I have envisioned "liquid metal" type robots.

so maybe the bots hold the charge and they form the membrane which attracts the water or liquid and holds it in place.

whew! tough one.

I was thinking that all of the liquid would be nanobots... no water involved.

Unless its gonna be an anti vamp bot there really isn't a reason to make it water.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:26 pm

darkmax wrote:You mean the nanobots will look like liquid to an observer, no?

Not JUST look like liquid but behave (certain behaviors) like it too.

Basically imagine trillions of micoscopic spheres that each have dozens of little grabbers mounted on spining rings that encircle each sphere like latitude lines. They use there little grabbers then twist their rings to move, or flow, but they can be held in shape to mimic people but would not be strong enough to form weapons IMO. Give it a special layer of nanobots that crawl around on the outer service and can be altered to reflect and absorb certain freqencies of the electromagnetic spectrum allowing the outer surface to mimic different colors and even absorb radar.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 12:03 am

darkmax wrote:What one would call a liquid-metal armor.

I used to play a character with a magical suit that acts like that, when not in use it is just a metal belt with a big buckle, but that was in AD&D.

No, the whole of the robot (except maybe a small "core" processor) would be nanobots, not just an outer layer.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 6:07 pm

darkmax wrote:that would require a tch level beyond those that exist in most part of the Tri-galactic area.

Not really if they have nanotech to make bots that go in and knit up damaged tissues then they could make nanites that cling to eachother and can form shapes yet still "flow" when needed.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 9:26 am

darkmax wrote:Simple as it sounds, it does require a lot more than just "cling"...

Sure, they need to grab onto each other, control their ring movement, and have reference to where they are in relation to the trillions of other nanos then be able to receive instructions about where to go and use the above abilities to exicute the command and achieve the desired result...

This is all well beyond our tech today but if they can make robots that can manuver through the human body, detect damage, then can manipulate cells and close wounds, then they likely have the tech to make nanos (that could be very big for nanos) that their only duty is to grab onto eachother, and then using their fairly basic system of locomotion, follow commands to go to a certain place within the total mass of nanos.

Having the specailized layer that can reflect differnt colors would be easy compaired to either the healing nanos or the "liquid body" nanos.

Hard? Sure.
Beyond the tech of the three galexies? Not IMHO. though I don't think that my design would be able to produce rigid weapons like the terminator did but nor could it move very quickly like the T1000. I havent figured out exactly how to produce limb movement... thinking that having the central nanos some how lock into position creating a skeleton with joint then having the others act as muscles to pull against these bones (guess since they arnt just contratatory they could also push).

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:29 pm

Well since IRMMS kits exist, the nano-bot option is definately there.
You could make a nano-'borg conversion...where the endoskeleton is surrounded by nano bots...he could make himself look like anything he wishes, the limits being heigth and weight only becasue of the endoskeleton. The nanobots (ALOT of them) can have a "normal" or dormant state where they appear to be flesh or MDC armor..then at the will of the borg take different shpes (fur, add a tail...etc.). this would make a very cool infiltrator borg. Could even go to the extreme of having the nanobots "sample" a material to mimic...that way they could mimic "geo" type races as well. Or, sample a dead body to absorb thier skin tone/make up...a cyber doppelganger. In combat, they could become rigid and form self-repairing armor...or mimic another creature's regeneration.
They could be tied to an internal processor, that has to be programmed for different species to imitate, and have an operator write programs the character had to buy for each species. An in-game limiting factor.
The achilles heal would be a telemechanic...

I've created a monster...

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:33 pm

As an after thought, ARCHIE would probably go ape**** for this, if only Hagan had come up with it...

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:46 pm

LOL I wish...

"Argent Goodson here with Titan Robotics, Introducing our latest break-Thru! Here it is folks, The Spartas Variable Hover Tank!!"

<DROOL>

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:21 am

Bah i said variable instead of the other v word

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:41 am

It's in your sig

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:16 am

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:29 am

That, my friend was awesome. I really enjoyed reading that.
I understand all of the concerns, and they can be quite limiting.

I did not envision an amorphous mass of nanites, I envisioned <billions?> them tied into a central computer, or the cyborg/Transferred Intelligence's brain, on a robotic body they were meant to work in concert with.
The beauty of Sci-Fi is that I don't need to back anything up...I can just say the technology works :eek:

But for clarification I figured:
1> Central computer/AI sends instructions to the nanites. They follow them, according to pre-programmed conditions.
2> They have the ability to modify each other quickly, but only as directed by previously mentioned computer or internal programs. Need a sensor nanite? it gets modified by the others according to pre-set parameters, and gets a sample of whatever. <imagine a tentacle suddenly bursting forth from the chest, with the tips being sensory nanites...disturbing>
3> They can link up, like a microscopic chain mail, with several layers. The ones on the outmost layer coat themselves with an MDC matrix or poly-alloy. Flexible MDC-tough armor. The kind of MDC provided depends on what's been sampled or programmed into the nanites.
They also do this to mimic other appearances (link to grow tails, extra limbs, make horns, mimic scales, etc.) and body types. Like I said before, the only limit is the size of the internal cyborg/robotic skeleton.
4> Toyed with the idea of having them be able to form weapons...they swarm on the hip for a sec, then part showing a C-20 in a holster, as the rest of the nanites mimic deadboy armor...knives, swords, any melee weapon could be covered easily, but those that make weapons with moving pieces are permanantly stuck that way. Cyborg then needs to go scavenge metal to have his remaining nanites create duplicates to re-store their previous number...and repair those that acted as armor.

I figure this kind of thing would be developed either by A.R.C.H.I.E. 3 or one of the companies in Japan, with the purpose of making a better infiltrator (ninja 'borg).
Just an idea

Feel sorry for my players yet? MUAHAHAHAHA

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:10 am

Bah. The biggest hurdle is creating nanites, and they already exist in Rifts in the form of IRMMS and RMK nanites. Just expand on that a bit and WA LAA!

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:18 am

Dry out? They are cell-sized robots, not actually liquid.
They just appear to be liquid as they shift about and change shape.

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:21 am

Well they could be. Depends on the level of technology.
The borg would prolly prefer machine ones to organic ones.

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:44 am

They CAN be. I thought nanites are just a generic term used to describe nano-sized robots. If it'll help I can start using the term "nano-bots".

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:49 pm

That are some of the nanites that are being worked on in reality. But in Rifts, I thought they were bigger than that. But still way down there in size.

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:54 am

Either way would work for my concept.
They may be easily defeated, i suppose, but you'd have to know what you were dealing with before hand.
I'd go with EMP hardened mechanical nanites.
I'd write it up, but too many armchair physicists crawl out of the woodwork when ya do stuff like that

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:38 pm

BAH
Nano-bot-ites!! MUAHAHAHA

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:10 pm

Cyborg version.
Full conversion nanites.

ROFL

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:47 pm

I know it wouldn't work in real life.
I still think it'd be a cool idea

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:19 pm

Yeah, I mentioned a few ways to limit it in my origional suggestion.
It does need to be limited somehow, or instant munchkin.

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:12 pm

Ack! You cut me to the quick!
Yeah its a bit much...perfect NPC

MUAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:53 am

I understand.
BUT
If i want it to fight 7 PC's...then it needs to be 7 times as good as their average equipment...

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:48 am

NO!
I want it to fight 7 PC's, not NPC's.

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:21 pm

You think I'd let a player have this?
NPC of course!

The only problem is the operator might reverse engineer it...hmmm.

Esckey · Unread post by **Esckey** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:36 am

Or that the whole thing is connected to the NPC so when he dies the armour dies, dissolving into a puddle of mucus on the ground

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:47 am

Thats good too

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:44 am

He just said:
"Yup. Theoreticaly it would work".

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:16 pm

Or or or...the operator has telemechanics.

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 3:44 am

No, not to control Darkmax, to study or recognize them as nanites. To get a schematic in their heads to attempt to reproduce them later.

I decided to make the chassis a neural intelligence robot. i have my SB1 here with me at work (dont tell my boss

) and I'm making the frame.

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 4:26 am

OK..I also came up with projectile weapons only. Like the nantites can form a rail-type gun on a forearm, and the nantites can act as the magnets and propel solid bits at its target, either nanite bits, that hit its target dissipate and then head back to the 'bot or just chuncsk of metal the 'bot can get a hold of...
Vibro blades they can defiantely do...form a long blade that's a molecule thin on its edge, then vibrate along the edges.
I'm still working on the armor and limited shape changing stuff.

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:16 am

Yup..and introduced.
So far the party is saying HUH??? ?
He'll come in handy eventually

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:11 pm

His story is he's a robot of unknown design sent from somewhere to monitor the sentient beings on earth. He has a clean slate right now, and is learning from the party. At some point, he will go all "iron giant", depending on what he's learned from the party. He is the party's collective conscience.
So far, only the operator in the party knowns about his nanites, but the robot hasn't really used em yet. Right now he looks like a borg with musculature with tiny pourous holes in key places.

glitterboy2098 · Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:20 pm

i've noticed that the main issue with the proposed nano-skin was the physical linkages between the nanobots. i agree that it would be a problem.

so get rid of it entirely. use magnetic feilds.

imagine if you will, arrays of 256 cell sized nanobots, each linked together by magnetic bonds. each array links up with others in a larger arrays.

this structure can be as fluid as water, the arrays moving themselves around using these magnetic fields, or as hard and unyeilding as diamond, as the bonds become so strong KE can't move them easily.

(the 256 array base is to allow networked proccessing over the entire structure. binary code with a 64 character programming language.)

either hook this directly into a borg/bots computer systems, allowing the borg/bot to directly control the mallable 'skin', or do an ultra-tech mass of nanobots as a lifeform itself.

this set up i stole from the Buck rogers novel's, particuarly Warlords of Jupiter, where nano-tech charonians invade the inner system. silly book, but it had some great scifi ideas, and makes a good resource for MiO games.

ah, the charonians. fly through space at hundreds of g's on magnetic drives, able to pull right angle turns on a micron in space, derive power from any form of radiant energy (light, heat, radiation), can replicate themselves by eating appropriate amounts of matter, able to shoot pea sized bits of themselves out as KE weapons using their internal magnetic feilds, can change of a silver form to reflect back light based attacks, can interface with the human brain and read it like a hardrive, wear human 'shells' (corpses) as disguises, possessing a massively powerful networked neural net intelligence (one race, one mind, many parts), vulnerable only to EMP and explosive weapons.

not bad for a damaged human built Von Nueman probe orginally designed to terraform extrasolar planets.

Kryzbyn · Unread post by **Kryzbyn** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:56 pm

Yeah I didn' t knwo that was already out there.
But fluid is what Im aiming for...as the nanites swarm out to perform their tasks they look like a black liquid.

abdulwahabmalik · Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:42 am

Yes, it attracts and the charge is dessipated in the water as described in https://science4fun.info/what-is-electricity/

13eowulf · Unread post by **13eowulf** » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:47 pm

Topic Locked for necromancy. 13 years between posts.

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