Super humans and the economy

[Prince Cherico]

Ok heres a what if
how would super humans change the world economy?

Assuming a super human population of 2% of the worlds population
with populations spread out in the land of orgin table
with

10% of mutants in Australia
10% in great brition
34% in the USA
14% in canada
9% in europe
5% om africa
5% in Latin america
10% in East Asia
and 3% spread across the rest of the world.

Also assuming the power catagorys are spread out in the
same manor as Page 7 of powers unlimited two and the
Super powers are spread on in the same manner as Pages 106-108
of powers unlimted 3

[sinestus]

man, you guys are forgetting some of the more dangerous powers...


how many can touch a machine and know 80% (IIRC that's the number for telemechanics) about it...
80%...
OS
Schematics
Materials

no computer is safe,
let alone the data on it...


then there's the mind readers...

the pre-cognatives...

the intangable,

and indestructable...


but then... the question arises...
out of all these,
how many enter a position where they'd discover their abilities,
and how many of those would actually believe it happened...

humans are fond of disbelief...

for every one nutjob that wants to be superhuman and unique,
there'll be thousands who'd rather be another normal joe who doesn't draw everyone's attention...

[Prince Cherico]

5% experements
5% symbiots
5% robotics
5% empowered
5% natural genus
5% special training
5% super invention
5% mutant
5% imbued
5% psionics
5% super soldger
5% physical triaing
5% imortal
5% bionics
5% magic
5% Eugenics
5% hardware
5% weapons training
5% alean
5% Gestalt

With a 0.5 chance of getting a given power in ether the major
or minor catagorys.

A superhuman population of 120,000,000
This means people with actual super powers are 45% of the
superhuman population.

For america this means we have
40,800,000 or 7.35% of americas population
The break down
2,040,000 Natural Genuses
2,040,000 mutants
2,040,000 experements
2,040,000 symbiots
2,040,000 bionics
2,040,000 robotics
2,040,000 Special training
2,040,000 Empowered
2,040,000 Super invention
2,040,000 Imbued
2,040,000 Psionics
2,040,000 Supersolger
2,040,000 Physical training
2,040,000 imortals
2,040,000 Eugenics
2,040,000 Hardware
2,040,000 weapons experts
2,040,000 aliens
2,040,000 Gestalt

[londonbaz]

Applying logic to the question of Superhuman numbers is a dangerous game to play. Down that path lies madness.

[Sir_Spirit]

5% experements
5% symbiots
5% robotics
5% empowered
5% natural genus
5% special training
5% super invention
5% mutant
5% imbued
5% psionics
5% super soldger
5% physical triaing
5% imortal
5% bionics
5% magic
5% Eugenics
5% hardware
5% weapons training
5% alean
5% Gestalt

With a 0.5 chance of getting a given power in ether the major
or minor catagorys.

A superhuman population of 120,000,000
This means people with actual super powers are 45% of the
superhuman population.

For america this means we have
40,800,000 or 7.35% of americas population
The break down
2,040,000 Natural Genuses
2,040,000 mutants
2,040,000 experements
2,040,000 symbiots
2,040,000 bionics
2,040,000 robotics
2,040,000 Special training
2,040,000 Empowered
2,040,000 Super invention
2,040,000 Imbued
2,040,000 Psionics
2,040,000 Supersolger
2,040,000 Physical training
2,040,000 imortals
2,040,000 Eugenics
2,040,000 Hardware
2,040,000 weapons experts
2,040,000 aliens
2,040,000 Gestalt

The world as we know it would be reshaped by the sheer power and numbers of superhumans.
Violent pro-super groups would harshly put down anti-super bigots who mistake this for an x-men movie.
THeru's CArtels and unions(which do exist) would be similarly destroyed by or be forced to recruit supers.
Someone with Grant Superpowers could just grant AIDS patients random minor abilities until they got a healing factor(assuming they didn't have healing factor themselves or one of the major regen powers).
While the courts would have to deal with the fact that telepaths could just read an guys mind an KNOW whether or not they did the crime.
If they and other psychics get folded into our justice system instead of rejected, then our current system would dissolve.
And if 60% of 2% of the worlds population that had supers were in the
U.S. Religious regection would be all but impossible except for a few small religions(kinda like phelps church, but with not chance of it's website surviving for even a moment).

[Sir_Spirit]

Well yes, of course they would recruit supers,

And while they were doing that, the world would be changed by supers.

The point I'm making is this. Your a superbeing that wants to change something major, very quickly. Let's say you want to save the enviroment by releasing alternative energy sources.

Then you do so while the cartels are recruiting supers to stop you, by the time they recruit a guy you have changed the world and it's too late.

These supers who know where their money is coming from are also going to be pretty well motivated.

Unfortunately power is no longer a matter of numbers and money.
They can be motivated all they want, it won't help them resist the Eco-terroist Metalla 'mistress of minds' when she forces them to shoot their greedy bosses in public, and then revealed their duplicious practices to the public. Nor will it help the cartels spin control when you can command all the cameras to show your manifesto and not their spin.

Being fundementally human beings, superbeings are for the most part going to fold into the existing infrastructure,

Since when do human beings levitate and fire death rays from their eyes?

Now you might say "okay Theru, but what about minor changes that add up"

No, I wouldn't.

Well look at it this way. If some guy decided he wanted to save parts of Africa by say increasing the economy by giving them wealth through using his earth-powers for massive diamond mining, he'd wind up getting a bullet in the head.

But since he's got the Bulletproof power that just means he has ammo to kill his woudl be assassin.

The reason is that even on a small scale things like international Diamond cartels don't want the market glutted.

And people in hell want a glass of ice water, doesn't mean their gonna get it.

A good super-hero world concept usually tries to include reasons (outside intervention) to prevent things like this from happening.

To bad the good guys loose quite often(even in "a good super-hero world").

Perhaps I'm wrong, but one thing I'm pretty sure of is any level of superhuman development (huge scale, or small scale) probably wouldn't turn out like any comic concept yet conceived, even the "gritty" and "realistic" ones.

Quite true, about since they all pretty much turn out like you said, I 'm not worried about them.

Superhumans would be just like anything else. Cooler in the imagining than in the reality.

I quite sure the cartels would (painfully)agree with you.

[Nekira Sudacne]

1. We're talking about HU, I will address the sample world of "uber heroes" in a second as point 3.



2. The thing about Cartels is that they are extranational, and aren't nessicarly going to play nice. If a politician doesn't play the way they want, then they will just back a differant one to replace him.

If all else fails they will just resort to outright violence. A lot of these groups already have private armies and such looking out for their interests (look at how the Diamond Cartels run the diamond mines in Africa). These armies would of course include super humans in their employ.

Basically if for some reason they "Dropped the ball" and somehow couldn't regulate a "teleportation service" or whatever then there would suddenly be a lot of accidents taking place. They'd kill the teleporters, infect people with viruses and have "experts" produce studies proving
the sickness was due to superhuman teleportation, or whatever.

Arguably, you might find things going in similar directions to "The X-men" in certain places specifically to protect business interests, as opposed to genuine fear starting among the general population. Guys with certain (very useful) powers that have a tendency not to play ball with the powers that be might find themselves stigmitized through a campaign of lies, misinformation, and outright sabotage. Either that or hunted and killed, perhaps indirectly.

For example a young kid who displays teleportation powers might find himself a target specifically because of the long-term potential threat he might present to powerful international business interests.

The point is that for every arguement that can be made about how super-beings might change the world, there are arguements that can be made about why people wouldn't let it, or how they would stop it. In general people are against sudden, radical, change so ultimatly societal inertia would work against the superhumans.

That's why I feel that ultimatly things would get a little more interesting and colorful, but ultimatly life would go on more or less unchanged unless other world shattering events happened at the same time.


3. The development of large groups of super-powerful beings like was described probably wouldn't turn out quite that way. Humans are ultimatly social creatures, and believe that having a society is better than Anarchy and the strong outright preying on the weak.

The super-humans are ultimatly people to, so inevitably your going to wind up with some kind of pecking order being established. Especially seeing as it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if they basically walk all over the infrastructure the various things they want
are going to disappear. I mean noone is going to build houses, manufacture TVs, etc... if society suddenly becomes irrelevent, or if everyone is afraid of getting crushed by walking down the street.

What's more if the general masses feel like they have been replaced entirely, you'd be surprised at how quickly things would fall apart. I mean if nothing matters and people have given up hope they aren't going to go to work or whatever, and things are slowly going to decay.

I mentioned Aberrant before, and to an extent it dealt exactly with this issues (although the number of 'Novas' was relatively low suppodedly). The entire point of "Project Utopia" was that they became the world's most powerful force simply by having the greatest number of
superbeings under one banner, united under the general cause of keeping things working. They were ultimatly extra-national more than a group of patriots.

You had a very powerful "patriotic" faction that was forgotten in a lot of the writing too that was called "The Directive" which was made up of the world powers and it's own Superbeings (less than Utopia) which existed to largely keep the existing world powers in charge and maintain the existing pecking order. There was a loose alliance/uneasy peace between them, Utopia, and Utopia's ummm.. covert side (which I won't go into in case you ever read it, it was an interesting metaplot... which is saying a lot coming from me, since I don't like Metaplots in general, and usually loathe White Wolf Metaplots).

The point is that eventually some group would establish some kind or order instead of letting the world become reduced to an Anarchist ruin. If nothing else, being the ones establishing order comes with a lot of power and perks.

Oddly, very little would probably change from the average person's perspective as the existing infrastructure would still have been preserved and anyone in charge would realize that trying to enslave/conquer everyone and radically change things would probably ultimatly result in doing away with many of the things that they want.

>>>----Therumancer--->

The problem is, Theru, after a certain point there's only going to be so much they can do.

a super with really fast flight, like rocket, invunerability and a few other powers can more or less take them out.

Seriously, having a problem with anti-super laws? an uber mega hero can kill all the politicians in the capital before lunchtime. Cartel guys causing them greif? THEY have to go underground or they die before dawn.

Sure, we're talking a heartless villan here, but a single relaly powerful or a group of well knit moderatly powerful guys can cause enough harm to all these 'established' cartels and such without much problems by not bothering with the legal system at all and just killing everyone until THEY have a goverment that's pliable to their whims.

[Sir_Spirit]

Hmm, just wanted to point out that it's not that I don't believe that there aren't "power cartels" of various sorts that are uber rich and influencial.
they may not be politicians, but they certainly have their numbers( and in some cases there pictures).

However, by the sheer numbers in LC's example simple odds say that atleast one would slip through the cracks and take over a Cartel, and then they coud simply open the door for others.
This is especially true if they appeared slowly, though then the Cartels would have a better chance at recruiting some of them(and for the more legal cartels, legislating some "control measures").

If they simply appeared at once:
There would simply be chaos, as millions of the average citizen now have actual power without wealth or political aprioval or military apointment/backing.
And many wouldn't need any of the above to keep it.

Think about the (lefts/foreigns)hatred of Bush.
While for most people it was just words or political action, if they could have gotten away with it, I think more than a few would have tried something. Espcially in the confused beginning before anyone can organise a Super Defense Initiative, or Psi-division in DoHS, much less the Secret Service!. And If I can think of that, then you can bet somone with powers would think of that too, that they needed to strike now, before any organised response could be made to control those in power(and don't think they'd all be concerned with just Bush either...).

Of course, if I had gained powers my first response would be to insure Order around where I live. There are enough cult-esque churchs, and KKK wanna be's, with an uber small number of "vocal lefties" that I would probably have my hands full.

[Sir_Spirit]

Ever read The Authority? This theme has been tried before, and in the end, even those who did it had to admit it was a mistake.

Or rather, the latter writers didn't agree with the earlier ones descisions and so had the characters "admit" what that writer felt about their actions.

[Sir_Spirit]

Ever read The Authority? This theme has been tried before, and in the end, even those who did it had to admit it was a mistake.

Or rather, the latter writers didn't agree with the earlier ones descisions and so had the characters "admit" what that writer felt about their actions.

Well, I was speaking from the standpoint of the story, but in the larger context of the creative team, it was largely a matter of "what now? ...crap, the current status quo pretty much kills the book."

Not saying that the book was bad, just that if they DIDN'T go back on a few things, there was nowhere else to go. The former creative team left because they had told the story they had set out to tell, and they didn't really care if it went anywhere after that.

On an off note, I had a somewhat similar conversation with a friend who wanted me to run an Authority-style campaign, where all the PCs were Mega-Heroes and Immortals, and they would take over the planet.

I asked him "Then what? In conquering the world, you've eliminated all resistance. That pretty much leaves us playing a bland game of 'maintain the status quo, doesn't it? Since there's nothing left to challenge your status, wouldn't we pretty much end up role-playing poker games?"

Really?
All cops do is play poker?
Cause is you don't think cops defend the status quo....
then I can see why you'd think the game would stall.
Once you have changed the status quo to your liking, then you have to defend it. This requires certain amount of foresight and planning(usually).
So, in the long run, if your goal is to change the world, then you need to paln on how you keep the world changed to our liking, and prevent some one else from changing the world to their liking.
And once you succeed you need to defend it from those who don't ilekthe world as you've made it.

[Sir_Spirit]

IF you have taken everyone possiblility on the planet into comsideration and used first strikes and planted counter-resistance agents to wipe out any possible resistance you your rule, that doesn't meanGOd wan't get pisssed and send his Son back by an army of angels Kick your ASS.
NOr does if prevent that ALien armada who plans for a covert take over were disrupted by your take over form seeking revenge by arming otherwisw powerless resistance fights who could take you on without their massive support.

Also, what about other similar super gorups who get bored on their Earths and decide to take over yours?
Or similar groups with radically different idealogies who want to do to your earth what they did to their own.
FOr instance, if you have created a world with nations treated as states and replace the UN with a world goverment that is essentially a democractic Republic with extensive rights, and social saftely nets, that you are empowering to take over when you guys are gone, what if a group of supers from a world that has been made into a libertarian utopia decides to "liberate" your world, or what if a meritacracy decies to try to save you world from itself after discovering crossworld travel?

That's not even bringing up peopel form the future who are tryingot keep you from "ruining the planet" or people from the past who faked their deaths and jumped ahead to be alive and free to fight your regime after your group has passed on.

[Sir_Spirit]

IF you have taken everyone possiblility on the planet into comsideration and used first strikes and planted counter-resistance agents to wipe out any possible resistance you your rule, that doesn't meanGOd wan't get pisssed and send his Son back by an army of angels Kick your ASS.
NOr does if prevent that ALien armada who plans for a covert take over were disrupted by your take over form seeking revenge by arming otherwisw powerless resistance fights who could take you on without their massive support.

Also,w hat about other similar super gorups who get bored on their Earths and ecide to take over yours?
Or similar groups with radically different idealogies who want to do to your earth what they did to their own.
FOr instance, if you have created a world with nations treated as states and replace the UN with a world goverment that is essentially a democractic Republic with extensive rights, and social saftely nets, that you are empowering to take over when you guys are gone, what if a group of supers from a world that has been made into a libertarian utopia decides to "liberate" your world, or what if a meritacracy decies to try to save you world from itself after discovering crossworld travel?

...and you just proved my point. Every single one of these ideas is exactly the sort of 'maintain the status quo' stuff that I've been trying to say you'd be reduced to. Sit around and wait for something more powerful than you to show up, then take it on, largely to break up the monotony. After the third adventure like that, most players I've worked with wouldn't care if the character lived through it..

Then have a time traveller jump back in time and plant a delayed nano-bomb in their mothers wombs, so that once the Time Tqavellor gets back to the present he can set it off and permantly strip the characters of their powers while his Chronotroopers blow up their headquarters.
Of course, once that happens the futures changes and He unexpectedly becomes a 'reality shard', the only survivoring peice of that timeline, with only his surviving Chronotroops with him to make his bid for world domination(a few thousand).
While his chronobands were disabled when he became a reality shard, thus preventing him form using any time travel tricks, the now powerless and headquarterless characters effectively removed anyone else who could stop him.
And even if they stop him(and that's abig if) they now have to deal with the world that they made!