What's happening with Ninjas and Superspies

[drewkitty ~..~]

speaking from an on-line perspective, The NSS and MC books are mostly used to suplament the other game settings, where "Ninja" chars are few and far between. This is because there is not much interest in gming Nss online. It wouldn't suprise me to see that in the future that Nss and MC will be merged into the HU setting. Mostly becasue that is the game where most of the NSS/MC chars seam to end up in.

[Guest]

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[sinestus]

alas, gming the detailed kung-fu that make N&SS unique is rather difficult online...

then there's the skill and power balance...

comparing players i've introed into the Palladium worlds, the ones that did N&SS first always think the rest of the worlds are underpowered (skill wise)...

that and teaching how to make a N&SS character takes far longer than any of the other systems...

then chain in that unlike the other books, N&SS never really seemed to have a dedicated world setting... just a loose knit of stories and secret agencies...

perhaps some happy-go-lucky fan should create a N&SS specific world...

[Boundbyfatefo13]

alas, gming the detailed kung-fu that make N&SS unique is rather difficult online...

I like Palladium chat but try Openrpg it is really good for that sort of thing
maps minitures and all

then there's the skill and power balance...

I thinks that is pretty set but then again you can always as Kuseru about that

comparing players i've introed into the Palladium worlds, the ones that did N&SS first always think the rest of the worlds are underpowered (skill wise)...

That is because in N&S all the OCCs in the game have had very intense
training lacking in the other games/settings

then chain in that unlike the other books, N&SS never really seemed to have a dedicated world setting... just a loose knit of stories and secret agencies...

They based it on the real world....the easiest game setting you can have.
Want maps? go on Mapblast....want a good history for a conflict look it up in history books cant get much easier than that.

perhaps some happy-go-lucky fan should create a N&SS specific world...

Refer back to what previously stated about what setting the N&SS game has to start out with

[Boundbyfatefo13]

That is because in N&S all the OCCs in the game have had very intense
training lacking in the other games/settings

Seems to me that, from description, most of them were not starting characters but were already a few levels in.

Yes and No....When I was in the military...we had alot of training in a short period of time...also to comparing average Rifts people to people in the modern world are on average far more educated than most people in Rifts...Literacy makes that much of a difference....But I will say they do have more training, however taking into account all of the N&SS O.C.C.s have alot of training it balances out in the end. Basically all the N&SS O.C.C.s are at the top of their game...So to be in their fields they have to be good at what they do.

[Colt47]

Yeah, I have to agree, compared to most of the Rifts characters I've been making, a Mercenary Commando can pretty much mop the floor with even the Coalition States finest considering the kinds of abilities they have at their disposal. Only thing is I am having a headache trying to convert my N&SS character to Rifts since I only have the Rifts Ultimate edition where the skills have been altered. Plus all the skill percentages and stuff are completely different in N&SS. I mean, I thought Desert survival was part of Wilderness Survival...

And then there is that education bonus, which I still don't completely understand. I mean, is that added to all skills the character gets, just Language and basic math, or to all of the OCC Skills?

And where is the physical skill Archery detailed? Several of the martial arts in the book say the character gets the skill, but the skill isn't written in the book!

[RockJock]

I always saw the world of N&SS/MC as sort of a a portion of the HU, or Nightbane world. It is a the underbelly and hidden side of a slightly post modern world. The shadow war going on behind the scenes. You have ancient martial arts schools with their rivalries, spy vs spy, gadgeteers and demons. It just lends itself to being a portion of one of the other modern to slightly post modern worlds.

[Kryzbyn]

I have to agree with Alejandro (what happened to your rabid bunnies sig? I laughed my ass off).
In my experience, you play N&SS fer a few sessions then everyone gets the bright idea "oooh these characters would kick ass in ________ " whether _____ is Rifts or HU or Robotech (had a guy play one to show up Lynn Kyle THAT was funny as hell, and he was takin out Zents...) it seems to be the universal add-on to all other palladium games. I made an elven ninja for PFRPG, so I am guilty of it as well. I love the game though and have played in a several campaigns that take place in modern day earth, the GM just reading headlines to come up with adventures.
Anyway, to sum it up, NS&S appears to be dead as a stand alone game.

[Kryzbyn]

This may sound a bit off, but when wanting to play Palladium and want a dose of realism, I play N&SS...

[Kryzbyn]

Was the one that hit the camera wielding a toilet brush?

[Sureshot]

I wish they would come up with a new edition of N&SS. It is somewhat dated and could use an update. If there would be a new edition I would buy it in a heartbeat.

[Kryzbyn]

Was the one that hit the camera wielding a toilet brush?

Toilet brush or tennis racket I think. If you want I can PM you the link for it.

yes please

[Guest]

Palladium's stated they aren't interested in updating it unless Erick proposes to do so. It also looks like the promised games Warpath: Urban Jungle and/or Recon: Modern Combat are slated to replace it.

[Kryzbyn]

I think the RECON and N&SS franchises could be easily merged.

[Kryzbyn]

An SDC game that takes place on Earth, just like N&SS.
Its about military actions and such...like roleplaying blackhawk down. Its more based in realism that N&SS, but you don't HAVE to use the mystic chi stuff or lasers from gadgets from it. I think they'd mesh just fine.
I guess to be more succinct, you could play a Recon game using N&SS rules.

[Kryzbyn]

Maybe PB should just make a PMRPG (M=Modern) and just include N&SS, Recon, BTS options all in one book/rule set. It'd get alot more use i think. Subsequent sourcebooks could add either more monsters, martial arts abilities, or squad combat tactics and the like. Thoughts?

That way, they've got PFRPG, PMRPG, and Rifts. kind of a past/present/future set up. "Roleplay in any setting, any time, all within the PB Megaverse...with little conversion, everything is compatable!"
Then you could market any new releases as add-on genres or settings to one of the above. have 3 big franchises to worry about instead of several small ones. Heck I like the idea Who came up with this?

[Kryzbyn]

Awww dammit. You just pee'd in my Wheaties...

Robotech, I think would have to stay it's own franchise. No matter how much I would love to see the title "Rifts: Dimension Book 20 ROBOTECH"
I don't think HG would allow that. But it would fit, would account for power creep, and overall would give me a chubby.
ATB...could get absorbed by HU as it involves mutants, and HU has mutant animal tables iirc. Leave what setting you play a mutant animal in up to the GM.
HU should be its own as well. HU, VU, AU, AU:G, PU1,2&3...too much to incorporate into another system, but could be incorporated into PMRPG via source books if done properly.

[Goblin-Jack]

One thing I find extremely appropriate for our times and ahead of it's time when Erick Wujcik wrote it, was the idea of a coporate mercenary groups (or PSD firm). That is the future, as national armies are more and more reluctantly deployed, it makes for skilled individuals willing to go to war for money (ala N&SS), a reality.

Erick was ahead of his time, and I say this as a former employee of one such firm. In this light, I think N&SS only needs to be updated to account for the prevalance of terrorism rather than rival spy agencies being the source of evil to be confronted and beaten into submission.

N&SS just needs a new cover and a new editing, other than that it's ready to go and should be re-released (Palladium's money and Erick's time permitting).

--GJ.

[Sureshot]

Palladium's stated they aren't interested in updating it unless Erick proposes to do so. It also looks like the promised games Warpath: Urban Jungle and/or Recon: Modern Combat are slated to replace it.

Correct me if I'm wrong was not Recon Modern combat postponed indefinately?

[Pepsi Jedi]

I always saw Ninja's and Superspies as a sort of.. Mini system, but yeah, mostly a suppliment to add on to other systems.

You could play it alone if you wanted to (( and it went surprisngly well with TMNT)) but past that you sort of dropped the OOCs and used the "STUFF" in other games. Be it the super spies stuff or a martial art or two.

[bar1scorpio]

And most ended up being culled form other games, as well.

I though it was PMCs (PRivate Military Contractors). And Erick wasn't too far ahead... remember... there are barely any mentions of the internet or cellphones in the game... think about how much *those* have changed information gathering!

Your spy organization relies on clues&information left my forward observers posting to YouTube....

[bar1scorpio]

Well, even for the period of the Roger Moore era bonds, much of the in-game tech doesn't hold up. 1 item I found was actually from a Matt Helm movie!

Yeah... alot of the game needs to be made more :modern" a-la BTS:2. Would actually allow for easier play in the past as well.

[Colt47]

I play Ninjas and Superspies because I like all of the complex hand to hand moves. It's one thing to shoot someone with a boomgun from two Kilometers away; going hand to hand with some CS pilot in the cockpit of a Spider Skull walker is a lot more interesting.

[GA]

I love Ninjas and Superspies as a stand alone game. The world is essentially our world. I'm not real sure why people like to import it to other games worlds. It is dated and it is mechanically flawed and it can get crazy with all the Chi stuff but you can play a realistic modern game with what is presented in Ninjas and Superspies. Personally I think its the best concept Palladium ever released.

[oni no won]

The Jacki Chan cartoon would make a great setting for N&SS.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

Im currently running a Ninjas & Superspies campaign for the first time in about ten years. I've had alot of ideas swimming around for how to update the game and make the combat a little more interesting. So far everyone seems to like what I've done. I'd forgotten how much I love this game and how much fun it is to play it.
My players and I usually play Rifts, but they love the openness and low-power setting of N&SS. When the group is comprised of spies trying to locate a hidden terrorist cell or track down an enemy spy, they get alot of freedom in choosing how to do it. While you can certainly do that in Rifts, that game tends to rely more on a "shoot first, ask questions never" approach. The characters don't need to be creative; they just cast a spell that gives them all the answers, then roll in and blast the enemies into cinders. N&SS is a welcome change from that kind of pace.
The setting is also more relatable. I have my game taking place in the early '90s, and the characters' missions revolve loosely around actual events. This means everyone can relate to what's going on because its all historical and its all more "real".
It's a shame that there isn't more of this kind of RPG in the market. Yeah, there's spycraft, but Spycraft is D20, which automatically makes it 90% lame. D20 just doesn't do well with games that require creativity and hard thinking. Good for hack and slash, though.
I would love to see more material for N&SS, like a "World Book" describing the political climate, major world events, and how superspies fit into all of it. Or a big book of NPCs, toys, skills, OCCs etc. Whatever.
I'm quite psyched for Warpath; I'm hoping there's alot of material I can port over into my N&SS game.
It's still a great game, and a game never really dies as long as there are people playing it.

[Goblin-Jack]

Im currently running a Ninjas & Superspies campaign for the first time in about ten years. I've had alot of ideas swimming around for how to update the game and make the combat a little more interesting. So far everyone seems to like what I've done. I'd forgotten how much I love this game and how much fun it is to play it.
My players and I usually play Rifts, but they love the openness and low-power setting of N&SS. When the group is comprised of spies trying to locate a hidden terrorist cell or track down an enemy spy, they get alot of freedom in choosing how to do it. While you can certainly do that in Rifts, that game tends to rely more on a "shoot first, ask questions never" approach. The characters don't need to be creative; they just cast a spell that gives them all the answers, then roll in and blast the enemies into cinders. N&SS is a welcome change from that kind of pace.
The setting is also more relatable. I have my game taking place in the early '90s, and the characters' missions revolve loosely around actual events. This means everyone can relate to what's going on because its all historical and its all more "real".
It's a shame that there isn't more of this kind of RPG in the market. Yeah, there's spycraft, but Spycraft is D20, which automatically makes it 90% lame. D20 just doesn't do well with games that require creativity and hard thinking. Good for hack and slash, though.
I would love to see more material for N&SS, like a "World Book" describing the political climate, major world events, and how superspies fit into all of it. Or a big book of NPCs, toys, skills, OCCs etc. Whatever.
I'm quite psyched for Warpath; I'm hoping there's alot of material I can port over into my N&SS game.
It's still a great game, and a game never really dies as long as there are people playing it.

Hi Taylor, great comments! I wonder, would you ever consider pitching to Kevin an update for Ninjas or perhaps asking Erick if you could help him do an updated revision of the game?

--GJ.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

If Erick Wujcik wanted to work on a N&SS project with me, I would totally do it. HARD.

[oni no won]

The characters don't need to be creative; they just cast a spell that gives them all the answers, then roll in and blast the enemies into cinders. N&SS is a welcome change from that kind of pace.
The setting is also more relatable. I have my game taking place in the early '90s, and the characters' missions revolve loosely around actual events. This means everyone can relate to what's going on because its all historical and its all more "real".
It's a shame that there isn't more of this kind of RPG in the market. Yeah, there's spycraft, but Spycraft is D20, which automatically makes it 90% lame. D20 just doesn't do well with games that require creativity and hard thinking. Good for hack and slash, though.
I would love to see more material for N&SS, like a "World Book" describing the political climate, major world events, and how superspies fit into all of it. Or a big book of NPCs, toys, skills, OCCs etc. Whatever.
I'm quite psyched for Warpath; I'm hoping there's alot of material I can port over into my N&SS game.
It's still a great game, and a game never really dies as long as there are people playing it.

While I'm tempted to dispute about your statement that d20 doesn't lend to players being creative in dealing with obstacles, I instead want to state that SpyCraft has moved away from the d20 license. While first ed required D&D to play, the OGL version, Spycraft 2 is totally self sufficient and many of the changes are markedly different from d20 while the core itself stays familiar (classes, use of d20 to determine outcome, classes, and feats). It has a new XP system, new challenge system (you won't see CR ratings), NPC generation (much easier to scale to the difficulty of the mission), and a cool system called Dramatic Conflict which determines things like chase and interrogation (much faster but with the same intensity as if you were roleplaying it).

If you go to their website, they also have free missions for you to download. It shouldn't be too hard to adapt it to N&S. There is also a rpg supplement called the Pan Pacific Alliance that dealt espionage in the East (from the Archer Foundation setting now defunct although they still sell the PDF version with updates) which you can mine for ideas.

There is a new setting coming out called World on Fire which will give more insight into the art of spycraft. The setting is based on a dead CCG (named SpyCraft) by AEG. One of the factions in that book is composed of martial artists.

Also, from their website, I believe they have links to other espionage/spy websites giving you even greater wealth of info.

I hope you have fun with your campaign!

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

SpyCraft has moved away from the d20 license. While first ed required D&D to play, the OGL version, Spycraft 2 is totally self sufficient and many of the changes are markedly different from d20

killer. I'll have to check it out.

[Colt47]

What I would love to see is Spycraft meets N&SS. That would be an interesting combination.

[oni no won]

What I would love to see is Spycraft meets N&SS. That would be an interesting combination.

In what way?

[Mantisking]

In what way?

Spycraft setting and background with N&S rules?

[oni no won]

In what way?

Spycraft setting and background with N&S rules?

The core SpyCraft book is devoid of a setting. There is a World on Fire setting coming out that will use SpyCraft rules though. It also gives more insight into the world of spies which should be a great tool for setting up a spy genre ambience for N&S since N&S doesn't go much into detail about the art of spycraft.

There is also the Archer Foundation updated for 2nd ed. The difference between Archer Foundation and World on Fire is that the former delves into the paranormal and the latter attempts to keep it real.