Rifts Ultimate Edition Errata

[shadrak]

I don't know if the monsters from the old game are powerful enought to threaten PC's anymore...Psi-Goblins average more power

Seriously, though, maybe a random generator for monsters AND Dbee's. A map would be nice too.

What I could really use is a clear list of saves and combat modifiers.

4+to hit target,
12+called shot (2 attacks) hit specific target
Wild shot: +?, when attacker is walking
Wild shot +? when attacker is running/riding
+ ? when target is moving between 1-10/melee
+ ? when target is moving between 10-50/melee
+ ? when target is moving 50+/melee

etc, etc, etc.

I think I need to put together my own. I saw a great on online but I can't find it anymore...anyone know?

[socom242]

I would definitely buy another copy just for the map if they included one.

Yeah, they need to get hot with a map or an atlas. I've been using a dated Road Atlas and customizing it with ley lines, altered land features, ruins and settlements, etc. It would be so cool if RIFTS had something like that!

[Phadeout]

I would definitely buy another copy just for the map if they included one.

That's why the maps need to be in Sourcebook 1. Adding maps to Rifts: Ultimate "now" would be really uncool to all those that bought the first print. At least if it's in Source Book 1 Ultimate, we won't all feel cheated.

[The Galactus Kid]

As far as I know, there won't be a map. It will be other color art.

[Denaes]

I'm not sure if these things were mentioned. I made it throught the first 10 or so pages...

1. on page 186 in the Magic section under the Note about Drawing PPE from an unwilling subject, if successful, you get 1% of the non-magic users PPE.

Now, assuming the GM is generous and allows you to round up, you're going through the this trouble for 1 PPE. In order to get more than 1 PPE, the unwilling target is going to have to have 200+ PPE. With a technicality, it may be worth it for some races, but most GMs would rule that if something has 200+ PPE and spell like abilities, they would be considered a magic user for being in touch with their PPE. Or technically they're not a magic user OCC, but an RCC

2. 185 "The typical mage will have between 10 and 50 times as much PPE as the normal person"

The average on 2d6 (which I don't think is mentioned in the book even) is 7. So Kevin is saying the typical mage has between 70 and 350 PPE.

I don't think any mortal magic user with an official O.C.C. can really top 350 by that much. And thats a few O.C.C.s rolling max for 15 levels to read the 350 milestone. Thats not "The typical mage".

3. The TW Creation Rules (pg 130-135) have a few bugs in them.

A. There are a few references to Base Size, but this is never mentioned. In the Rifter 21 version, Base Size was a mechanic that ensured that the more complex things were, the larger the device. Or that building things oversize were easier and allowing for miniturization at penalties. This version doesn't even mention what the Base Size is or even broach the subject that maybe the GM is just supposed to choose a number.

B. There is reference to a penality you can take for Miniturization, which doesn't work without a Base Size. Also since you can add extra gems to miniturize your item, this is, IMO, a legacy modifier.

C. Miniturization for more gems totally frokes the step-by-step process and you end up being able to make things smaller for a cheaper price, less PPE to create and less PPE to activate in less creation time because of the way it effects the base PPE Cost.

I did some tests with Diamonds (the most expensive mundane Gem) and even with the cost of extra diamonds, it was still cheaper as well as being able to activate a device for an insanely cheap price.

This reducing the size for extra gems (whatever it's called) needs to be stated that it applies to something else or just the Size (after everything else is computed) to prevent this snowball effect of making everything cheaper. Also it should probobly take more time as a drawback for making it smaller as it's more complex.

D. Black Market Cost (as I believe mentioned earlier) doesn't factor in any sort of markups for time, effort or profit. Just base costs like there was a Not For Profit TW Guild somewere.

I'm sure there are more legacies left over from Rifter 21 that contradict the changes or are nullified by the changes, but I'm not going to keep reading through this with a fine tooth comb

4. In the Game Terms section on page 278 Kevin says:

"Even though Rifts® has Psychic Character Classes, we've found using the term, P.C.C. can be confusing, so we either refer to them as O.C.C.s or R.C.C.s; basically an O.C.C. with psychic abilities."

They were always referred to as RCCs. The first time I've seen a psychic listed as an OCC was in this book and thats the PsyStalker and DogBoy, which I think are also errors as they fit the definition of Racial Character Class - a character class unique to a specific race.

Also note, that no, listing them as R.C.C.s is not less confusing. It may be less confusing than introducing P.C.C. into the game this late, but the concept of a P.C.C. isn't confusing in the least. Especially when compared to R.C.C.

In fact I was hoping they were going to clear up this RCC thing to make things easier. This along with SDC are the two most unprofessional and confusing conflicts for new users.

In Rifts there are three R.C.Cs. The Psychic, The Race and The Racial Class. Even playing in Fantasy which has PCCs, some of the new players still get confused by RCC (Race) and RCC (Racial Class). This can lead to a combination of two different R.C.C.s in Rifts: A Psychic Class and a Race or a Race and a Racial Class.

The definition for RCC seems to only mention the Racial Class, but I don't see another entry for Race in these terms. And if you go by this definition, you'll be confused when you look at an Elf or a Mind Melter.

"R.C.C. (Racial Character Class) is basically the same thing but re­fers to inhuman monsters, demons and aliens with abilities and skill equivalents that come natural to all creatures of that specific race, such as Climbing, Swiming, Seduction, etc. This category is sometimes confusing when an alien being or monster has a range of instinctive skills and abilities, but is also intelligent and driven enough to learn addi­tional skills, just like a human."

[Denaes]

3. The TW Creation Rules (pg 130-135) have a few bugs in them.

I agree there are a few bugs in the system rules. I would love to se them expanded apon.

Well fixing the bugs is my first thought. Adding extra options to it could be nice.

[Denaes]

More opptions would be great. I really wish they would do an entire source book for techno wizards.

Funny you say that. I had typed out just as much and then deleted it because I didn't want to get off topic of Erratta.

In my personal fantasy, they would put out a 50-100 page or so sourcebook on TWs, going back and revisit the Rifter 21 TW rules and streamline them again paying attention not to break them. With all the tests I've done with the 21 rules, they hold up at various power levels from 1st level spells to 15th level spells. That with a little GM common sense would do well. Get some people together, try to break them and see where they need to be fixed.

Then the book would have a lot about TW culture, options, special spells that are likely to be learned for the purpose of Techno-Wizardry, how they interact with other classes, races that love it... focusing on North America, but mentions all around.

Of course in my fantasy I'm the one writing it as well

And Jaguar Wong would do the artwork. He draws a mean TechnoWizard Ferret (or Ferret Techno-Wizard as some would say) and captures that gritty unfinished, unpolished device without getting too carried away.

[Gomen_Nagai]

I would like to see a TW Sourcebook that treats magic as science and not imitation science. Technomancers vs Technowizards.

Ie people who enchant technology to make it better vs people who make wacky devices to imitate science.

[Denaes]

Well, I see Techno-Wizardry as both a quasi-science and a quack-science. I also see some TWs focusing more one one than the other, sometimes exclusively.

No matter how it boils down to it, an Operator opening up a car engine isn't going to be able to make use or fix TechnoWizardry (well, if they're psychic they might have a clue).

Now there are those that might make a TechnoWizard Spark Plug, TechnoWizard Carborator, TechnoWizard Tires, TechnoWizard Air Filter, etc. These guys are making parts that work and have special properties. It wouldn't effect who could use the car overall, or who could take it out. A mechanic still knows they're Spark Plugs and how to take them out, just not why they don't look like normal Spark Plugs. Maybe if they're activated by a mage (in creation, like being charged) the mechanic can put it in even.

Then there is the TechnoWizard who takes out the engine, starts inserting extra parts and a mechanic who opens it up looks at it like "huh??? is this?".

One thought I've had for a long time was some small town, not really Anti-Magic, but not Magic Friendly, who has a TechnoWizard as their sole mechanic. He's making some mundane repairs, but then he's also making magical tweaks on things. And it's a small town and people really don't know better and think it's just technology. Thats how I see some Techno-Wizardry working.

One thing thats bothered me is that were're up at over 30 Rifts Books (closer to 40 now I think) with like 1,000 spells and at least dozens of schools of magic.

Now everyone I knew assumed dimensional beings brought magic to earth and we were learning from Fantasy Mages and 20th century mages and a few 21st centry era mages and thats why we have the same Common Magic.

But Kevin, in CE, says that Earthlings invented magic on their own. It evolved from a more chaotic and unique type of magic into the vanilla standard common magic that every world has. I can handle that.

But if people invented their own magic, in a super high tech environment, why aren't there more spells that effect technology outright? I mean surely there are mages who are total elitists, but if I had magic and could create my own spells, I can think of a dozen spells I'd want around the house and work to help with technological things.

That would help mages a bit and seem like a staple for Techno Wizards

[Denaes]

Sir Ysbadden is quite correct.

Tech in mages doesn't mix.

Metals (and some types of heavier armour) on a mage restricts magic, but that was like the deal with eggs. It was in Fantasy, but not in Rifts (due to mostly non-metallic armors I would assume) then it was stated somewere that it was in Rifts (I think the SoT series) and people complained that the rule didn't exist before and it was hosing mages more. Then later it was revised or repealed (BoM I think?). I don't know what the stance is currently.

But Magic affects tech just fine. You have a spell for recharging e-clips & cutting power... probobly others that escape my notice at the moment.

The major deal with tech & magic in Rifts is that cliche mages want to rely on their magic and probobly not augment tech. I'm quite sure there are others who use tech as well as magic and wouldn't mind magic augmenting tech in the least.

The HU Galaxy Guide has info on magical enhanced hacking and that was derrived from an article which had notes on hacking in Rifts, Nightbane, HU, etc. From what I recall there was a cybermancer OCC and spells that helped you hack, read faster, type faster, etc.

[Denaes]

Thank you

As far as augmenting tech that is the area of the Techno-Wizard. I would like to see spells that dont necesarilly augment tech just give it a temporary nudge or allow it to do things it normally can't.

Well, giving it a "nudge" would be augmenting it, but thats just semantics.

Techno-Wizards are initially described as being able to do this in the RMB (not sure about RU) and then for the next 40 books, their place is just that of making magic items. They really never get into magically augmenting tech. The only mention of it is the conversions section in the RMB (and I assume RU).

And really, this is the sort of magic that would be the "missing link" between Vanilla Conventional Magic and Techno-Wizardy. In fact, many of the spells which augment tech temporarily could be used in perminant Techno-Wizardry.

Really, it's up to each GM. I see no problem in the least for having magic, which alters/bypasses reality to be able to do the same for some form of technology. I think the Techno-Wizards would love these spells and get the specialists discount (50% PPE costs) with them.

[devillin]

3. The TW Creation Rules (pg 130-135) have a few bugs in them.

Okay, here's some questions I had about these rules as well:
Other than for some devices that work on a variable distance, is there really a reason to make a device with a higher Device Level than 1? Most damage spells have a set damage and range, so what would be the point in making a TW device with a level higher than 1? If there is a benefit to making a device with a higher Device Level, could you state it?

If you make a TW weapon, do you combine the ranges and damages of the original spells that go into powering the device or just use the damage and range of the Primary spell boosted by a power-up spell like energy/power bolt or energize spell? On a related note, does a spell effect get a bonus in range from being incorporated into a TW device? If it does, what is the mulitplier? If it does not, how do you justify the Lightning Rod which has a range of 1200 feet, when Call Lightning maxes out at 300? Or is this where the benefit of having a higher level device comes out? If it does, it should be stated that this is where the Device Level also factors in.

Finally, how many Functions can you include on a suit of armor or build into a robot? Do the various costs of building the device scale up as what you are building it into also gets larger? I'm hoping yes.

[Denaes]

3. The TW Creation Rules (pg 130-135) have a few bugs in them.

Okay, here's some questions I had about these rules as well:

I'll try to answer whatever seems to still make sense

Other than for some devices that work on a variable distance, is there really a reason to make a device with a higher Device Level than 1? Most damage spells have a set damage and range, so what would be the point in making a TW device with a level higher than 1? If there is a benefit to making a device with a higher Device Level, could you state it?

For the most part, the level effects the duration in TW devices. Sometimes range (rarely for TW Devides) and sometimes damage or targets.

Now I could totally see a GM saying that you need at least X level to get a certain effect. Especially when you're not doing something exactly as the spell states, but using a spell as a means for a similar yet different effect.

If you make a TW weapon, do you combine the ranges and damages of the original spells that go into powering the device or just use the damage and range of the Primary spell boosted by a power-up spell like energy/power bolt or energize spell?

Primary Spell with any boosts/modifications it may have from other spells.

On a related note, does a spell effect get a bonus in range from being incorporated into a TW device?

Usually not.

A guns' shell seems to set the range for magic blasts. That goes all the way back to RMB.

Other Devices? Most are Thrown, Touch, Self, Area of Effect or a set Range like a gun. I think Area of Effect is the "range" most likely to be set by the level.

But really this is up to the GM/Player and what makes sense.

If it does, what is the mulitplier?

None really, just whatever feels right.

If it does not, how do you justify the Lightning Rod which has a range of 1200 feet, when Call Lightning maxes out at 300? Or is this where the benefit of having a higher level device comes out?

Really, it dosn't make sense, but if you took a spell with a range of 10 feet and put it into a Pistol, it would have a range of a few hundred feet. Put it into a rifle and it would have a range of 1,000+ feet. Just the way TW seems to work. Just part of the Form effecting the Function of the device.

Now I have no idea how a "Rod" would effect range. But this is OG Rifts. There are a select few occasions where you see a Rod as a technological weapon, so it's a specific housing. If a Rod normally shoots 1,200 feet, that explains it.

Also I can totally see adding in secondary spells with the intent of increasing the range or area of effect... nothing hard and fast though.

Finally, how many Functions can you include on a suit of armor or build into a robot? Do the various costs of building the device scale up as what you are building it into also gets larger? I'm hoping yes.

The short answer is that there is no limit to the number of "Functions" you can add to a device/vehicle/etc. You figure each one out seperately and go to it. In general if you're making a device with 10 Spell Chains, you have to make them all at once. You can't make 3 and then decide to add 7 more later without taking everything apart.

The longer answer is that the original Rifter 21 rules factored in Size for this reason. The more levels of stuff you have in your Device, the more complex it is. The more complex it is, generally the larger it is. Generally a good TW could attempt to miniaturize something to make it smaller.

So the end result is that having 3 2nd level "Functions" might net you a 10lb device, having 8 2nd level "Functions" might be closer to 50lbs. Really this is what prevents you from having an Anhiliate Pistol. It would probobly be more like a heavy rifle or a mounted gun. Still doable, but large.

Most higher level spells, with single or multiple "Functions" would be rather large and unweildy. Another reason why they're not so easily moved by the black market.

Unfortunately when they were simplifying/streamlining (I guess) the Rifter 21 rules for RUE, they seemed to remove most references to size. There seems to be no fixed weight depending on how complex it is.

This is really odd because they added in a (IMO broken) step to reduce the size. This step allows you to not only have an Anhiliate Wrist Watch, but it also makes it cheaper for you to have an Anhiliate Wrist Watch than whatever it's normal size would be.

I just assume the "normal size" is set by the GM because it's not stated. Also in the modifiers section, there are still references to increasing the size to make it easier and decreasing the size to make it smaller, which have no effect without actually determining what the size would be.

I'm not 100% with these new alterations, but someone had me look them over and wonkiness was found with Anhiliate and miniturization. How rare/common this wonkiness comes up, I don't know.

[Gomen_Nagai]

before RUE came out it was 3. Now they have it scalable.

[Shorty Lickens]

before RUE came out it was 3. Now they have it scalable.

Your wrong on page 130 of RUE it states that no armor, robot, vehicle ect.. should have more than 4 enhancements for game balance. But it is still up to the GM.

Game balance.

This comming from the people who gave us borgs with 1000MDC.

[Gomen_Nagai]

the Russian Thunderstrike shock trooper. It's 16ft tall and walks over like a Grey back gorilla.

[Denaes]

before RUE came out it was 3. Now they have it scalable.

Your wrong on page 130 of RUE it states that no armor, robot, vehicle ect.. should have more than 4 enhancements for game balance. But it is still up to the GM.

Game balance.

This comming from the people who gave us borgs with 1000MDC.

What borgs have 1000 M.D.C. ?

1000 is incidental. 700, 500 even 300M.D.C.

The point the poster was trying to make was that there is no inherent game balance in the rules and character creation, so it seems like something else for the GM to regulate.

In regards to the TW devices, I'm sure you can come up with 2 spells that that are by far more powerful than 4 (or even 8 ) spells in a suit of armour, so saying that you're limititing it to a number (rather than PPE cost or spell levels maybe) for balance is sort of laughable in a system where you can play a demi-god, a bio-borg, a huge flying metalic dragon borg and a cyberdoc.

The only balance in the game comes from the GM, so it's sort of ironic for them to try to enforce balance somewere.

And who's to say that in a party of scholars, headhunters and my TW that 4 effects wouldn't be too powerful and my TW in a group with a dragon and glitterboy that 4 effects would be incedental?

[Denaes]

I don't think it was the rule so much as the poster mocking the fact that it was explained that the rule was there for game balance... in a RPG with no actual game balance.

[Denaes]

Hey thats an arguement to take up with the writers of RUE as that is the reason stated in the book.

It's not an argument. Just an observation that the other poster seems to have found ironic and I do as well.

[Greeter]

Hey thats an arguement to take up with the writers of RUE as that is the reason stated in the book.

It's not an argument. Just an observation that the other poster seems to have found ironic and I do as well.

My point is that in rifts the game balance is there it is just subjective to the game and it is not always fair.

Or consistent.

[Shorty Lickens]

I guess I was a little too smart-alecky for my own good.

I like the Rifts system. We had this discussion a while back when someone brought up the issue of balance.

I agree that because of the gobs of source material they put out, the system is not inherently balanced. But its also because we have gobs of source material that its easy for a GM to construct an individual campaign that IS balanced.
Granted, D&D was a little easier to run. And with the new D&D rules and the whole Challenge Rating thing, its easier than ever to set up quick encounters if you have to.
But like so many people have pointed out, its the wide-open world of Rifts that makes the game so appealing. We just need to put in a little more effort.

[jgants]

So I see there's still no official word on when me might see the errata, even though it's almost a year since it was out.

Disappointing. Extremely disappointing.

[Blue_Lion]

before RUE came out it was 3. Now they have it scalable.

Your wrong on page 130 of RUE it states that no armor, robot, vehicle ect.. should have more than 4 enhancements for game balance. But it is still up to the GM.

Game balance.

This comming from the people who gave us borgs with 1000MDC.

What borgs have 1000 M.D.C. ?

I can think of a couple. The Thunderstorm weighs in at 1240 MDC (Warlords of Russia). Arrak Chrome weighs in at 1000 MDC (Mercenaries). And the Cyberai weighs in at 900+ the likely force field would bump them to 1060)

All true, but in referance to a borgs high MDC im not worried about it since they dont heal and need to be repaired constantly.

Don't worry about why the rule is there and just focus on the fact it is four, immagine if there was no limit.

(some time it seams to me that they worry more about ballance on mages than they do anything else.)

[Scruffs]

The cs tech off starts as a cpl althought the pay rates for all cs are diferent the in the CWC (they are lower now) less money after the war...

Anyway main question why does the tech off start as a cpl but his promotions notes are for Lt and captain. Non-commissioned members in no military get promoted from corporal to lieutenant otherwise my next promotion (real life) will be super sweet... This was screwy in the old rifts main book as well as well. Due to most of the MOS' skill sets they definetly should not be an officer so I'm assuming he gets sgt etc... with promotion. Refers to them as an officer I know, but a sergeant is a non-commissioned officer (NCO).
However I can see the medic who is actually a full fledged medical doctor being an officer, given that they start at captain in the Canadian millitary, probably the same with you Yanks. So pretty much I'm confused as the different MOS' seem like they'd be different ranks... So this is part errata and part query! Which one (cpl or officer) is wrong!
Thanks

[Colt47]

Some kind of reference to leaping distances would be great!

[Dash]

Got tired of reading at page 14.

THE PLIGHT OF THE BEHEMOTH EXPLORER!
Its gone! *sob* Although seeing how the Titan Exploration Bot and the Titan Recon Bot are also gone, I can hope they get put in Sourcebook 1 v2.0. They better.....

And yes, the Sky King IS gone! That isn't fair either. Not that it really matter to me, I have the book, but the Sky King is too popular amongst NPC to leave omitted.

PS: In future printings of the Worldbooks, Sourcebooks, etc. be sure to print new page numbers for anything that had a page number listed.

[Shotgun Jolly]

The Glitter Boy OCC doesn't have the Pilot Power Armor skill.

Reading the skills section, it states that robot and power armor: elite automaticlly gives you the basic combat skills for power armor in all standard types of power armor and robots at the basic level. Making the OCC power armor combat basic skill redundant.

So, I think that it was a typo of and they ment to put in pilot power armor/robots. That would make more sense to me. I may even give them a +10% to that skill. seeing they should know how to use one pretty well.

Well, thats what I am going to do. What do you guys think?

[Shotgun Jolly]

Just noticed another one for the wilderness scout.


OCC skills its listed to have Horsemanship: General +20

and then down below for piloting skills to choose from it says

Pilot: Motorcycle +14 OR Hovercycle +10 OR Horsemanship: General. Pick one.

Seeing we already have Horsemanship +20, this makes that choice kinda moot.

Was that ment to be another type of piloting skill like ATV, or somthing?


Regards

[Shotgun Jolly]

body fixer has outdoorsmanship as an occ skill but the wilderness scout does not. is this errata or does the wilderness scout get his occ bonuses instead of a skill?

sounds like errata to me...WTH does a bodyfixer need outdoorsmanship for anyhow?

Checked all occ's. Only body fixer and elemental fusionist have outdoorsmanship. none of the military occs get it either. little bit of an oops. house rule addition!

I was looking this one over, and i really dont think it is an error. From what i can see, outdoorsmanship gives only a +5 to those skills listed and only a +1 to PE. Looking at the wilderness scout, he already has those skills as OCC skills with a +20. Also, the wilderness scout also gets a +1d4 to PE anyways.

The skill really doesnt add much to what the wilderness scout already has. But i guess if you wanted your wilderness scout to take that skill, he can be that little bit better at being a scout, then maybe another scout who doesnt have it.

I would guess the outdoorsmanship skill is there for other OCCs to be able to be a little more "out in the wilderness" compatiable.

So, I dont think it is an error. I guess you can picture it as one being a rough and tough outdoor survivalist who can live in the dirt and eat bark to live (having outdoorsmanship skill) Vs. the Moutian Equipment Co-op Discovery channel adventurer who knows how to survive if he has all the gear. (wilderness scout who doesnt have it) Both great outdoorsman and know what they are doing, just one can be a little bit more *rough* around the edges.

But this is how i see it tho. See what I mean?

[Sureshot]

I noticed on page 221 of RUE that the Shadow Beast that is called with the Summon Shadow Beast has no horror factor. Is that a mistake or is that the way it's supposed to be? Same thing with the Create Mummy spell no HF for the mummy. Yet the Create Zombie spell on page 223 does have a HF. I think the two Horror Factors might have been left out by mistake.

[maasenstodt]

Well, the 2nd printing of RUE has arrived. It's prominently posted on the main page. Obviously, Palladium must have the official errata at this point and they promised to release it when the 2nd printing arrived. So.....

Where is it?

[Sureshot]

Well, the 2nd printing of RUE has arrived. It's prominently posted on the main page. Obviously, Palladium must have the official errata at this point and they promised to release it when the 2nd printing arrived. So.....

Where is it?

Let's hope it's only a matter of time for the errata to appear. Otherwise it will be disappointing to say the least.

[Jason Richards]

Well, the 2nd printing of RUE has arrived. It's prominently posted on the main page. Obviously, Palladium must have the official errata at this point and they promised to release it when the 2nd printing arrived. So.....

Where is it?

Brandon (who I assume will be doing the errata) will have to go through and see which of his marks were picked up before writing up an errata. It's not like the printer delivered it with the books.

[The Galactus Kid]

Jason is correct. Kevin and the guys at Palladium are going to send me the finished copy of R:UE second priniting so I can go ahead and see what corrections were picked up and put in this printing. Once I have that in hand it will be a very short time until I get the errata completed and pt in .pdf format so it can be posted either in cutting room floor or the main page for download. Thanks everyone for the concern.

[maasenstodt]

Jason is correct. Kevin and the guys at Palladium are going to send me the finished copy of R:UE second priniting so I can go ahead and see what corrections were picked up and put in this printing. Once I have that in hand it will be a very short time until I get the errata completed and pt in .pdf format so it can be posted either in cutting room floor or the main page for download. Thanks everyone for the concern.

It would be great if Palladium would address errata in their products with a pdf that got updated when new issues came to their attention, without having to wait for new printings. Heck, it would be nice if the staff would make notes on the errata as they proofed the text and release an errata document once the book was sent to print, without having to wait for a 3rd party to receive a copy and then compare notes. Given the company's track record in this area, however, I'll take what I can get.

At any rate, I do appreciate your efforts and look forward to seeing what was fixed and, thereby, whether it is worth purchasing. Thanks!

[Jason Richards]

Jason is correct. Kevin and the guys at Palladium are going to send me the finished copy of R:UE second priniting so I can go ahead and see what corrections were picked up and put in this printing. Once I have that in hand it will be a very short time until I get the errata completed and pt in .pdf format so it can be posted either in cutting room floor or the main page for download. Thanks everyone for the concern.

It would be great if Palladium would address errata in their products with a pdf that got updated when new issues came to their attention, without having to wait for new printings. Heck, it would be nice if the staff would make notes on the errata as they proofed the text and release an errata document once the book was sent to print, without having to wait for a 3rd party to receive a copy and then compare notes. Given the company's track record in this area, however, I'll take what I can get.

At any rate, I do appreciate your efforts and look forward to seeing what was fixed and, thereby, whether it is worth purchasing. Thanks!

The staff have better things to do than write errata, like... carrying on the day to day activities required to keep Palladium afloat. It's the perfect job for freelancers like Brandon.

Many people here have downright cursed Palladium for not doing errata. Palladium said that they would issue errata with the second printing, and they're doing it. There was much rejoicing. Bot now that it's being done, that isn't good enough?

Errata with new printings is a sensible benchmark to maintain.

[Jason Richards]

as long as the errata arrives and it can be called official and not just someone's opinion on what they think needed to be changed, i will be happy

This you shall receive.

[Sureshot]

Many people here have downright cursed Palladium for not doing errata. Palladium said that they would issue errata with the second printing, and they're doing it. There was much rejoicing. Bot now that it's being done, that isn't good enough?

No one saying it's not good enough. All I am asking for is a PDF that is released at the same time the 2nd printing is available. I don't think it's too much to ask. You mentioned that it's being worked on which is good enough for me.

[maasenstodt]

The staff have better things to do than write errata, like... carrying on the day to day activities required to keep Palladium afloat.

Providing customer service and product support are essential activities in any plan to keep any company going. Since, as you say...

Many people here have downright cursed Palladium for not doing errata.

...I would argue that the staff might be wise to invest a bit of time in addressing errata if keeping Palladium afloat is the objective. Given that fans submit the issues that need to be addressed, it's not as though this is a major time commitment, particularly if the editors are doing their jobs.

Palladium said that they would issue errata with the second printing, and they're doing it. There was much rejoicing. Bot now that it's being done, that isn't good enough?

I think a fair reading of my statement would be that there's room for improvement.

Errata with new printings is a sensible benchmark to maintain.

You're very likely correct. If we had errata being addressed or readdressed with every book and printing, both in the texts and freely available online, the number of objections would certainly die down. Unfortunately, Palladium isn't meeting that benchmark. Not by a long shot. And even if it was appropriate to this thread, I don't think I need to list the myriad and egregious issues that have been neglected years after they've surfaced to prove my point.

Frankly, I'm nearly as flabbergasted by the cavalier attitude towards this matter presented by Palladium's most die hard fans as by the problem itself. It perplexes me that those most interested in seeing Palladium succeed aren't the same people pushing this issue the hardest. For all of Kevin's talk of wanting to lead the way in the industry, by the measure of even 3rd tier publishers, Palladium has a lot of catching up to do.

I don't say any of this stuff because I have an axe to grind. I'm a Palladium fan too. I've been playing Kevin's games for decades now and I own the bulk of everything he's published. I want to feel good about supporting Palladium, but to my eyes, the past five years or so have presented as many disappointments and unkept promises as not. Until I see things turn around (and I hope that they are!), my money will keep going to those companies that are doing what Kevin has been talking about.

Now all of that said, let me reiterate that I'm really anticipating this errata. Hopefully, most of the issues brought up in this thread have been addressed. If so, I promise you that I'll make my praises clear, that I'll be much more upbeat about Palladium's direction, and that I'll come back as a paying customer. It may be but a drop in the bucket, but I'm sure Kevin would welcome my purchases and those of my players. I sincerely hope that he earns them.

[The Galactus Kid]

Masenstodt, Thanks for the constructive criticism. Many times on forums like these people get wrapped up in their point and thrive in the anonimity of the internet an just bash away, but your points are good and have been taken to heart. I don't think that Jason was trying to discount your opinions in any way but I do think he was just trying to relay the point that this HAS to start somewhere, and its starting HERE. Palladium needs to do errata, keep it updated, and keep it official. Bt the biggest problem is that Kevin and the guys at the office (of which there are about 6 at any given time and two of them aren't writing or editing) are working on new product and revising freelancer manuscripts, putting together new issues of the RIFTER and just maintaining the business. That is why some of the freelancers like mysef have vowed to do this. We know that it is important to the fans, we know that it needs to be done, and we know that WE are the catalyst for its success. Thanks again.

[Sureshot]

Well said both Maasenstodt and GK.

[maasenstodt]

Masenstodt, Thanks for the constructive criticism. Many times on forums like these people get wrapped up in their point and thrive in the anonimity of the internet an just bash away, but your points are good and have been taken to heart. I don't think that Jason was trying to discount your opinions in any way but I do think he was just trying to relay the point that this HAS to start somewhere, and its starting HERE. Palladium needs to do errata, keep it updated, and keep it official. Bt the biggest problem is that Kevin and the guys at the office (of which there are about 6 at any given time and two of them aren't writing or editing) are working on new product and revising freelancer manuscripts, putting together new issues of the RIFTER and just maintaining the business. That is why some of the freelancers like mysef have vowed to do this. We know that it is important to the fans, we know that it needs to be done, and we know that WE are the catalyst for its success. Thanks again.

You're welcome, and thank you for your thoughtful response. I would love to see a thorough errata for RUE be the first step towards rectifying old problems and keeping on top of new ones. Even if this was simply taken care of one book at a time (as books are released and addressing existing titles), as long as the results are thorough, official, published, and updated as necessary, I firmly believe that Palladium will profit from its efforts.

Again, Brandon, thanks for your work in this area. I sincerely hope to have my doubts concerning Palladium's commitment to quality allayed in the coming days, and to shortly thereafter be placing an order for RUE, SB1, the D-Bee's book, and the two Dinosaur Swamp titles.

[Jason Richards]

It should probably be pointed out ahead of time that in all likelihood all of the comments/errata/edits mentioned in this thread will NOT be a part of the second printing. I'm pretty sure this is clear, but didn't want to leave anyone with wrong impressions. It's just not cost effective for Palladium to fix every single error, as that process is expensive.

If the example set by Chaos Earth is anything to show the way, then the big stuff will be handled, but not everything can be.

[Sureshot]

It should probably be pointed out ahead of time that in all likelihood all of the comments/errata/edits mentioned in this thread will NOT be a part of the second printing. I'm pretty sure this is clear, but didn't want to leave anyone with wrong impressions. It's just not cost effective for Palladium to fix every single error, as that process is expensive.

If the example set by Chaos Earth is anything to show the way, then the big stuff will be handled, but not everything can be.

Fair enough but at the same time I understand the company as a whole can't tackle every issue. Imo it does not have the resources. Nothing that cannot be done down the line later.

[maasenstodt]

It's just not cost effective for Palladium to fix every single error, as that process is expensive.

If Palladium's production techniques make correcting errors in the text too expensive to do a thorough job, then off the cuff, I can think of two important incumbancies that should follow:

First, it should be incumbant upon Palladium to be upfront with their customers about the problem. Kevin ought to explain why those people purchasing subsequent printings of his books can't expect some known errors to have been dealt with.

Second, it should be incumbant upon Palladium to be all the more dilligent when it comes to their errata documents. Both those issues that are fixed in subsequent prints as well as those that couldn't be need to be officially spelled out and addressed.

While I'd say it's unreasonable to expect Palladium to change its production techniques overnight, particularly in this difficult period, this problem (assuming that it is indeed a fact) is just that - a problem. If Palladium desires to lead the way in the industry as Kevin has suggested, this is another area where the company really needs to play catch up relative to even much smaller RPG publishers. In the meanwhile, I'd say that it's very reasonable to expect Palladium to meet those responsibilities I outlined.

If the example set by Chaos Earth is anything to show the way, then the big stuff will be handled, but not everything can be.

Chaos Earth's problems go well beyond errata. Without turning this into a debate on that title, that was a case of false advertising - saying it was "Complete" when it clearly was not. Doing right by those who purchased it under false pretenses would require much more than what a standard errata document would address. I'd not argue that what we saw from Chaos Earth's latest print handled "the big stuff," and I'd surely hesitate to compare, therefore, the way that Chaos Earth was handled vs. the way that RUE should be.

Again, I'm not looking for an argument about Chaos Earth. Rather, I'm hoping that, as Brandon suggested, Palladium's handling of RUE will be the company's first real step in the direction of responsibly (that is, timely, thoroughly, and officially) addressing the issues in its products.

[Shotgun Jolly]

If the example set by Chaos Earth is anything to show the way, then the big stuff will be handled, but not everything can be.

The thing I would like to know is what do people consider "the big stuff"??

Is the example of the borg section something expected to be fixed in the 2nd edition?

Not trying to start anything. But I am just curious to know how that would be done. I am just happy that the errata will be coming out and the hopes that it will be able to clarify some of the rules questions and OCC questions that we have noticed. But, thinking about it. I guess I am looking more for a FAQ release. But stuff like the jucier PP issues and other Skill related issues mentioned here I am hoping will be noticed.

Looking forward to the fact that Brandon is going to work on it, and I hoping he will keep us upto date on the progress.

[Jason Richards]

If the example set by Chaos Earth is anything to show the way, then the big stuff will be handled, but not everything can be.

The thing I would like to know is what do people consider "the big stuff"??

Is the example of the borg section something expected to be fixed in the 2nd edition?

Not trying to start anything. But I am just curious to know how that would be done. I am just happy that the errata will be coming out and the hopes that it will be able to clarify some of the rules questions and OCC questions that we have noticed. But, thinking about it. I guess I am looking more for a FAQ release. But stuff like the jucier PP issues and other Skill related issues mentioned here I am hoping will be noticed.

Looking forward to the fact that Brandon is going to work on it, and I hoping he will keep us upto date on the progress.

In Chaos Earth, for the second printing, the missed or incorrect stats were fixed, but some typos, capitalization or formatting mistakes, or skill issues that worked out strangely weren't all fixed. It should also be noted that many things that were "fixed" were not mistakes, but issues of balance, scale, etc.

So, as for my experience, "Big Stuff" is basically everything involving things you need to properly play the game.

[The Galactus Kid]

Yes. Puntuation marks and things of that sort will more often than not take a backseat to those items which severly are defective in the product (the Borg O.C.C. for example with the switched pages). When one considers the cost of those types of mistakes is the same to correct the "big things" as Jason put it are the most important. I believe there were well over a hundred pages or marks spotted for correction of some sort each which is a flat fee from the publisher to replace on their end. This means that when a reprint is done, it usually ends up costing a large upfront lumps sum before that printing even goes to print.

P.S. Masenstodt: From what I've seen of the D-bee book and from personal experience with the Dino-swamp books I KNOW thatyou will not be disappointed. You can take that to the bank.

[Shotgun Jolly]

So, as for my experience, "Big Stuff" is basically everything involving things you need to properly play the game.

Well thats good, I am happy to hear that. I really dont care much about all the extra ... or lack of ,,,, or improper uses of ;;; To me, thats no big deal.

Its the missing of stats and stuff that get me going.. a spell left out or no damage listed for a weapon. Stuff like that.

I believe there were well over a hundred pages or marks spotted for correction of some sort each which is a flat fee from the publisher to replace on their end. This means that when a reprint is done, it usually ends up costing a large upfront lumps sum before that printing even goes to print.

Now you gone and done it! I got a bunch of questions I need to ask now!

I didnt know it worked like that at all. Do they charge you the flat fee per page ontop of the regular printing fee? I just figured the newer version was sent to the printers and they printed the next edition for the same fee the first edition cost. Or do they charge a lesser fee for the same book and just add in the correction fees?
<-- just trying to make sense of how this whole "gone to printers" thing works.

oh, and one more question. Can some of these errors come after its gone to the printers? Like, can it sometimes happen that a print company may make some sort of error when they transcribe the document? I guess thats you call it????

[The Galactus Kid]

From what I know the it is a flat fee per page that needs correction. The reprint fee is extra, and I believe it is less (but I could be very very mistaken here) than the original.

and yes, some of the errors can occur in printing. I know of at least two of the "errata" that had occured after it went to print.

These observations are also just from my very limited experience, so I don't know if that is how it is done throughout the industry.