ARCHIE III vs The Republicans

[Subjugator]

Me, too.

HE's the one that I want to run Chi-Town!!

Oh, if you only knew what I know.

Sourcebook 1 ROCKS.

/Sub

[cornholioprime]

Me, too.

HE's the one that I want to run Chi-Town!!

Oh, if you only knew what I know.

Sourcebook 1 ROCKS.

/Sub

As long as Prosek and Family aren't the Robotic Clones of Miles Warren whose real last names are Reilly, I'm prepared for almost anything that comes down.

[Subjugator]

Me, too.

HE's the one that I want to run Chi-Town!!

Oh, if you only knew what I know.

Sourcebook 1 ROCKS.

/Sub

As long as Prosek and Family aren't the Robotic Clones of Miles Warren whose real last names are Reilly, I'm prepared for almost anything that comes down.

Well.

KARL isn't a robot.

I'll say that much.

/Sub

[Subjugator]

OK - I have to admit...that last bit was a joke.

/Sub

[Grell]

im with the brave little toaster.

Nice reference! ARCHIE wins, the Republicans are toast.

ARCHIE in '08!

[rat_bastard]

If the repubs come up with a decent magic division then I may have to swtich sides, Archie is even less prepared than the CS for dealing with magic opponents.

[Preacher]

If the Repubs were to manage to free the Sleeping Army then they have a shot. If not then Archie has it.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Thing is the Repubs think Archie is just archie with some old bots at his disposal and some weapons implacements. I didn't do an exact calculation but flipping though the book last night, Archie has over 30,000 bots to call on if he needs them. Bots that never sleep, never rest, never show fear.... The Repubs better be ALOT sneakier than they seem to have a chance to pull this off.

Granted I haven't finished reading the book. *holds up hands* but... so far their plan seems a bit fanciful and based on "If nothing even minutely goes wrong" from beginning to end.

Not to mention all the working gear they have.. was built by Archie and "given" to them when the Big Toaster felt bad... you think Archie didn't put in a switch that he could flip if they ever turned around and tried to rush him again?

"Oh drat, Hagan they've come for me.. again"
"I'll get Earth Saver one warmed up and meet them in battle!!!"
"Oh don't fret. I just hit the override in all their power armor. They're on the ground twitching. Send out a few bots to shoot anyone that struggles out of their armor in the face. Then clean out the corpses and put the armor back in storage."
"Oh.. well... that's rather anticlimatic"
"Well Hagan.. I never said they were SMART."


Now granted that lil example might be simplistic... but come on. If I could think of it. Hopefully archie and Hagan could have.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Thing is, the Archie Bots arn't like the Star wars Droids. They seriously kick butt. You don't roll once for 100 of them. Each one of those 100 gets upwards of 6 to 10 attacks per melee... ect ect ect...

and reading on though the book.

Yeah over the years the Repubs used up their original NEMA gear, and Archie would make some new stuff and "hide" it close to where ever they were (( or close to other humans)) to "FIND" over and over again.

More recently the Repubs have gotten in over the past year and kinda looted Archie's factories and made a good ammount of power armor for themselves... but... while they might have 1000 suits of GB armor.. they have like... 100 pilots (( HORRIBLY Simplified, I know, the book's across the room and I don't want to quote exact numbers least a form admin smite me)) So yeah their new armor likely doesn't have the override switch. But... they're horribly undermanned too.

[Prince Cherico]

the thing about Arche is that he is pontentially one of the more
powerfull beings in north america.
Hes got all of the Shemarians at his beck and call and he is creating
a whole nation of them. Hes got the ability to make a whole lot
of robots, hes got acess to the best tech of the golden age and
mechanoid tecnology. MECHANOID tecnology force feilds and anti
gravity isnt beyond him any more.
Hes the only one on the planit with satalite comunications, hes got
the best intelligence network in north america. Archee is pretty
freaking awsome.

[Library Ogre]

To recap, the front-line ARCHIEE bots are limited to responses programed into them

Not quite.

According to the old SB1, all of Archie's bots are Class 3s/ Robot Intelligences. They can assess data, draw a conclusion, and act on that conclusion within the parameters of their programs. So, while they can't contradict their programming, they can come up with new ways to respond to things that their programmers hadn't foreseen. It's the class 2, robot drones, who can't break their programming even a little.

For example, the Shemarrians, who are robot intelligences, are able to pass the Turing test as spontaneously administered by thousands of people over the past few years (decades)? On the other hand, the skelebots are class 2. They don't vary from their programs, they do only what they are told, and they're incapable of thinking creatively.

[Shades of Eternity]

yeah, and arch is pretty much the boogie man of north america.

if he's been supplying them equipment (as previous text indicates), he probably has a better idea what he's up against then the other way around.

and that's assuming the overrides have been overrided.

[Nightbreed]

From what I have read on other posts, most peoples complaints with the siege of Tolkeen seems to be it followed no real world military thinking (I normally only use the real world sparingly), if Sun Tzu is used as a basis for the conflict between ARCHIEE & NEMA then the conflict will hang together much better, & there will be less faults for people to pick at.

Actually it was biased against Tolkeen, but that's just my opinion.

I don't know much about these NEMA/Republicans, but it sounds like that they would have a good chance of taking out that doofus of a toaster. ARCHIE isn't that imaginative otherwise he wouldn't need Hagan. Besdies he needs to go, he keeps messing with my 'boys from Atlantis.

As much as i'd like to see the CS get elimiated, i don't see the repubs doing thart. They're too fortified. Besides, they have the FoM and the Splugs to worry about and are a bigger threat.

One game i ran had ARCHIE taken out by the mechanoids as they went Borg on him and merged him and HAGAN into the collective. "Resistance was futile."

[The Baron of chaos]

Archie No Doubt!

[Hotrod]

Humanity's salvation should be humanity. I'm rooting for the Republicans.

[Grell]

Humanity's salvation should be humanity. I'm rooting for the Republicans.

Preach it brother!

[Greyaxe]

Humanity's salvation should be humanity. I'm rooting for the Republicans.

Preach it brother!

Hell Yea go boy go!

[Nightbreed]

Humanity's salvation should be humanity.

Of course, the food/slave source of the various superior races should be allowed to multiply. Supply and demand y'know.

[Greyaxe]

Yea Splugorth, and others...

Boo Archie, robots taste bad.
Yea republicans, old food tastes best.

[Nightbreed]

Yea Splugorth, and others...

Boo Archie, robots taste bad.
Yea republicans, old food tastes best.

Glad you put the Splugs at the top slot.

As far as the old food thing, i was thinking like very fine wine and a new food never eaten before that adds to the delicacy that is humanity.

[Nightbreed]

The flesh is weak!
Despise the weak!
Steel is strong!
Through strength we survive!
With survival comes thought!
With thought comes knowledge!
With Knowledge comes power!
From power we grow!
As we grow we increase understanding!
Understanding leads to enlightenment!
With enlightenment comes realisation!
We realise that the universe is one funny place & we laugh, what else you going to do eh?

Pull the plug?

EMP blast would be usefull too.

[Nightbreed]

Heathen! We realised have selfgenerating methane reactors situated within our abdomin! We need not plugs!

Hmmm.... pierce belly, set interior aflame causing robotic version of intense hearburn...... Hey it's a hope.

We also wear the holy vestments of superior coppermesh underware that protects us from your primitive EMP devices & looks absolutely stunnings with a pair of shiny black stilleto heals!

Ok, we go from Victoria's secret to A.R.C.H.I.E's Secret?

I hate to think what the rates are for these robotic call bots....

[sHaka]

I'm with The Toaster, providing its a four-slicer.

[Crazy Lou]

Um.. Is there any info out on the Republicans yet? B/c all I've ever seen is a brief mention/ a dropped name. So... I feel that I can't really vote yet.

[Jmur]

I think I would side with the republicans. I'm not the biggest fan of Archie. He needs to be stopped before it is too late........

[Crazy Lou]

Can someone give me a really brief summary of the republicans? Pretty much, their stances politically (human supremacist, etc) and their power level is all I'd like to know.

Also, Dracurian, "God from machine" ??? what ??? What are you talking about, that doesn't really even make sense. I know you're saying you support archie, but... huh?

[Crazy Lou]

Ahhh...... Gotcha...... Thanks for the clarification.

[Crazy Lou]

... Um... Maybe not... (with you)

[Greyaxe]

... Um... Maybe not... (with you)

Your just scared oh leotarded one! As I see things that are not there when the imp brings me the next glass.

That's it isn't it. Your scared of imps!

Seems you are imbibing again.....more power too you. And for the record. I am changing my answer to the republicans having read the SB1 now. Republicans all the way.

[Dead Boy]

Well, since the Republicans want to overthrow the CS and take over, while ARCHIE is content to play his games and has a general interest in protecting Humanity, I'll side with ARCHIE in this fight. And besides which, if ARCHIE ever finds that cashe of NEMA stuff and such, I'm betting he'd find a way of directing the CS towards it for them to find. I'd help Humanity and have the CS take care of his Republican problem for him. A total Win-Win scenario.

[Kesslan]

It's a tricky situation.

The Republicans are ultimately no better than the CS save in a few ways. In the end them vs the CS specifically I'd support them.

But vs Archie..

Tricky question. Archie could actually do a great deal of good for humanity, and I think once he was exposed to humanity in general, rather than some throw back savages he might well change his opinion.

Bit of a coin toss there.

[Shades of Eternity]

still with the toaster

[oni no won]

I vote Republicans!

I support my fellow man. To allow a machine to rule over man is unthinkable!

I see one possible future if ruled by ARCHIE in a alternate reality called Splicers. ARCHIE is already crazy. He may develope split personalities due to his detoriation in his programming.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I'm still siding with the brave little toaster

[oni no won]

We let machines rule over us in the real world now. Money is stuck into your bank account by computer, Interest on debts is calculated by a computer which also notes when & what you paid. We recieve bank statements & debt statements via an automated machine, & just try in this day & age to prove your actually you when a computer says you are not.

Being dependent on machines and allowing a machine to make decisions about our future are two different things.

[oni no won]

OK, let me put it in another way...

Machines work for us NOT the other way around.

We dictate a machine's function. Machines don't dictate our actions. They may give us vital iformations but ultimately we have the final say in how we interpret the data and the course of action we will take.

[Jack Daniels]

Robotic troops might have a slight strategic advantage as has been mentioned else ware, they need no sleep/food/water, the advantage is only slight as human troops can live off the land & heal, & the big plus, human troops do not need to use mecha to be effective (though it certainly makes it alot easier).

Actually, not needing sleep, food, or water is pretty much the biggest strategic advantage I can think of outside of being totally omniscient in regards to your opponents every thought. It is very difficult for any decent number of people to live off the land and it takes a significant amount of time and effort to do so. It would be even harder to do it in an area where there are not very many farms or orchards or what have you that can be plundered. Ever consider trying to feed an army on nuts and berries gathered along the way? Read some military histories to find out how important sleep, food and water are strategically.

[Vrykolas2k]

OK, let me put it in another way...

Machines work for us NOT the other way around.

We dictate a machine's function. Machines don't dictate our actions. They may give us vital iformations but ultimately we have the final say in how we interpret the data and the course of action we will take.

Are you SURE?
Maybe we elect machines every four years. Ever notice how Algore moves, for instance?

[Jesterzzn]

OK, let me put it in another way...

Machines work for us NOT the other way around.

We dictate a machine's function. Machines don't dictate our actions. They may give us vital iformations but ultimately we have the final say in how we interpret the data and the course of action we will take.

Are you SURE?
Maybe we elect machines every four years. Ever notice how Algore moves, for instance?

Wow, so you admit that he was elected? That's very big of you.

[Crazy Lou]

Excellent!!!! this is turning into a phylisophical/conspiracy argument...er..discussion. Have not had a good one in a long time!!!!

OK, let me put it in another way...

Machines work for us NOT the other way around.

We dictate a machine's function. Machines don't dictate our actions. They may give us vital iformations but ultimately we have the final say in how we interpret the data and the course of action we will take.

Do you dictate the function of your ATM? or do you rely on the unseen programers to do it for you? Is every computer operator able to dictate what the computer does? If so why do programs crash or unexpected code turn up that can not be explained except as program fragments? & if they're program fragments, why do the programs still work to create more fragments?

The early computer pioneers used the term ghost-in-the-machine for these unexplained occurances. Isaac Asimov was the first to make it publicly known (although Ray Bradbury also did so, he's just not as well known). Speaking as someone who vanishes from databases quite regularly, I am thinking that perhaps, given enough time, computers start developing rudimentry Intelligence (that could be why computers become obsolete so quickly, the industry trying to prevent it) if not sentience.
If we are going to be ruled by a machine, let it be a machine we can have a conversation with!

Actually, not needing sleep, food, or water is pretty much the biggest strategic advantage I can think of outside of being totally omniscient in regards to your opponents every thought. It is very difficult for any decent number of people to live off the land and it takes a significant amount of time and effort to do so. It would be even harder to do it in an area where there are not very many farms or orchards or what have you that can be plundered. Ever consider trying to feed an army on nuts and berries gathered along the way? Read some military histories to find out how important sleep, food and water are strategically.

I said it was slight, as humanity has the greater advantage of adaptability. Humans can survive in climates & conditions that would prove problematic for robots, for example: tropical mangrove swamps (high humidity, highly corrosive), deserts (look what sand blasting does to metal, not to mention the grit getting into joints), & while humans need sleep, food & water, we are also extremely adaptable with regards to types of food we can eat. Hot curries are an excellent example, the more you eat the hotter curry can be eaten, as are bush tucker.

Humanity also heals, something mechanicals can not do, so they need supply lines as well, for parts (plating, lubricants, seals) from their factories, robots also have the limitation of not being able to quickly switch between different factories (try puting a starter motor from a three cylinder Daewoo into a V8 ford), where as humans can quickly change from rice to wheat to meat etc.

So all up, not having to eat, sleep, etc pans out as not being a large strategic advantage, but it is still an advantage none the less.

First off, I want to say I think it's funny that you're arguing that machines are possibly our masters and at the same time that humans are probably better b/c they can adapt and heal.

Secondly, I say that humans rule machines still b/c while we can't always make them do exactly what we want, we have congnitive intelligence that tells us we want to exert control over the machine, while it's just malfuncioning due to an error made in the programming, or because of a virus written by a human. The human error or other intention is the source of the problem not something cooked up by a mischevious AI within the machine to give us inferior humans a hard time (unless a rudimentary AI was put into the code to actively try to block stuff attempted by the operator -- which would've been put there by a mischevious human).

The second paragraph is silly and not worth my time since there's no support behind it...

[oni no won]

Do you dictate the function of your ATM? or do you rely on the unseen programers to do it for you? Is every computer operator able to dictate what the computer does? If so why do programs crash or unexpected code turn up that can not be explained except as program fragments? & if they're program fragments, why do the programs still work to create more fragments?

I don't follow your line of reasoning. You argued that machines already rule us. I countered that there was a difference between being ruled and being dependent. Maybe it is just that our definition of the verb "rule" is not in sync. In this case I'm using the term in the sense of exercising authority or power over. Your definition is more in line with dependency.

Using your analogy of ATMs, in the end ATMs still serve our need for convenience in getting our cash quickly. Does that mean it has power over us? Does it mean we are totally dependent on ATMs? If an ATM malfunctions or it is outside it's parameters to give us what we want, who do we turn to? A person of course. We meet with a bank personnel.

[Vrykolas2k]

OK, let me put it in another way...

Machines work for us NOT the other way around.

We dictate a machine's function. Machines don't dictate our actions. They may give us vital iformations but ultimately we have the final say in how we interpret the data and the course of action we will take.

Are you SURE?
Maybe we elect machines every four years. Ever notice how Algore moves, for instance?

Wow, so you admit that he was elected? That's very big of you.

He was nrver elected.
I was simply pointing out he was malfunctioning, even for a politician. Dangling chads don't count, no matter how much you shake them or how many of the dead vote...

[Jack Daniels]

OK, let me put it in another way...

Machines work for us NOT the other way around.

We dictate a machine's function. Machines don't dictate our actions. They may give us vital iformations but ultimately we have the final say in how we interpret the data and the course of action we will take.

Are you SURE?
Maybe we elect machines every four years. Ever notice how Algore moves, for instance?

Wow, so you admit that he was elected? That's very big of you.

He was nrver elected.
I was simply pointing out he was malfunctioning, even for a politician. Dangling chads don't count, no matter how much you shake them or how many of the dead vote...

If you look at the structure of the sentences that compose the thought, it does indeed look as though you were admitting he was elected. Good thing you're not a politician or a 'mistake' like this would be picked up and run with by that pesky librulmedia and nobody would ever pay any attention to any important topic you ever said anything about ever again. You'd just be "the guy who said Algore won." Good thing you're not a politician.

Actually, not needing sleep, food, or water is pretty much the biggest strategic advantage I can think of outside of being totally omniscient in regards to your opponents every thought. It is very difficult for any decent number of people to live off the land and it takes a significant amount of time and effort to do so. It would be even harder to do it in an area where there are not very many farms or orchards or what have you that can be plundered. Ever consider trying to feed an army on nuts and berries gathered along the way? Read some military histories to find out how important sleep, food and water are strategically.

I said it was slight, as humanity has the greater advantage of adaptability. Humans can survive in climates & conditions that would prove problematic for robots, for example: tropical mangrove swamps (high humidity, highly corrosive), deserts (look what sand blasting does to metal, not to mention the grit getting into joints), & while humans need sleep, food & water, we are also extremely adaptable with regards to types of food we can eat. Hot curries are an excellent example, the more you eat the hotter curry can be eaten, as are bush tucker.

Humanity also heals, something mechanicals can not do, so they need supply lines as well, for parts (plating, lubricants, seals) from their factories, robots also have the limitation of not being able to quickly switch between different factories (try puting a starter motor from a three cylinder Daewoo into a V8 ford), where as humans can quickly change from rice to wheat to meat etc.

So all up, not having to eat, sleep, etc pans out as not being a large strategic advantage, but it is still an advantage none the less.

I disagree. Machines at the level of ARCHIE's robots can function in a much greater array of terrains than humans can. In your examples the humans have serious issues with heat in deserts that don't apply to machines and in mangrove swamps the humidity would be debilitating to human troops, not to mention the swarms of insects that the robots would have no trouble with and the possibility of drowning under a heavy pack of gear and body armor that is not a concern for robots. The one disadvantage I can see robots having is that according to Sourcebook 1 they tend to be heavier than a human would be even when carrying full gear. So they might get stuck in swampy conditions easier, but they are also much stronger and so could more likely free themselves and they don't breath, so who cares if they fall into the quicksand and sink, they have 10 years to get themselves out or wait for their robot buddies to help them out.
As far as healing goes, humans do it so slowly and incompletely that it's difficult to consider it an advantage. Feeling pain and getting hurt is a strategic disadvantage in certain situations it prevents you from moving as you would like to. Of course there is going to be a supply train for a robot army, but without needing to carry food, water, or bedding it is going to be much smaller than the supply train for any equivalent human army.

Dang, I'm sure I had more points to make that I thought were good but I've got to run off to work. . .

[oni no won]

Just for fun:

If we spoke emoticon:

You:

Me:

.
.
.
OK, enough silliness and acting immature. I return you back to the topic of this thread...

[Jack Daniels]

Well I am embarrased

I had my argument all planned but now I have forgotten where it was going. Bugga. I'll have to conceed, let's just put it down to cultural differences & leave it at that.

Bit disapointed really, been so long since I had a good argument I've forgotten how to do it.

I was thinking of it as more of a debate than an argument. I'm disappointed also.