GR AMMO Totally screwed

[Greyaxe]

Ok Boys and girls, here is my rant:
PW pg 125 GR-10 Pistol 15 rounds 500 credits 33.3 credits a bullet
PW pg 126 GR-45HP .....27 rounds 1000 credits 37 credits a bullet
PW pg 126 GR-15AR .....30 rounds 2000 credits. 66 credits a bullet.

See any logic. I vote we charge rail gun ammo prices for these weapons therefore according to rue railgun ammo costs 1 credit for two rounds (pg 259) which means a clip for the GR-15AR will cost 15 credits for the ammo plus the cost of the clip and packaging etc so lets say 100 credits a clip. Any thoughts, too cheap?

[Braden Campbell]

Since the rounds are all probably depleted uranium sabots in a titanium jacket, they should cost 5 credits per round. The clip holding them should cost 50 credits.

So a loaded clip of 30 rounds costs $200, which is just one 0 slashed off the end of the book listed price.

[Greyaxe]

So i could get a box of 120 for 1000 credits, no clips just a cardboard box with bullets in styrofoam.

[Aramanthus]

I'd say that these prices are a lot better than the book. Which I agree is way over priced!

[KLM]

Since the rounds are all probably depleted uranium sabots in a titanium jacket,

Why DU?

Since the 3 Galactic community likes to play a bit more
hazard-free, than on the RIFTS Earth (no juicers,
much less borgs, etc.), I guess GR bullets are made of
something less hazardous. Tungsten carbine comes into
mind, but even MDC ceramics will do it.

Why jacketed?

Today's chemical slugthrowers (you know: guns) use
sabot ammo, because materials used in the gun limit
the maximum gas pressure . Now gas pressure must
work on an area - so sub-caliber rounds need sabot.
But that is not neccessary for even EM railguns.
(sabots might only serve to reduce inbarrel friction,
and therefore wear, but nothing else).

Why so expensive?
1, Probably someone wrote the "E-clips cost less than
on RIfts Earth" section, and someone else wrote
the CG ammo costs...

2, CG bullets might be cheap. But the clip is way more,
than bullets and spring. It is also an E-clip like device,
which contains the energy needed to fire those slugs.

Conclusions: a loaded CG railgun clip still might cost
2000 credits. Reloading however... around 100-150?
Or - if you have a socket on your spaceship, and
bother with handloading, around 30 credits.

Adios
KLM

[Braden Campbell]

[quote="KLM]
2, CG bullets might be cheap. But the clip is way more,
than bullets and spring. It is also an E-clip like device,
which contains the energy needed to fire those slugs.
[/quote]

That's an even more retarded design. In the middle of combat, no one is going to take the time to think, "Gee, I better save my clip for later so I can I can recharge/reload it". They are gong to fire the magazine dry, drop the empty thing in the dirt, slap in a new one, and keep fighting.

Maybe afterwards, if anyone thinks about it, they'll go pick up spent clips, but wouldn't it make far more sense for the CG generator to be in the gun, which you are less likely to discard in the midst of a fight, rather than in a disposable clip?

For the record, I have the same issue with e-clips for energy weapons. I don't think they should be so expensive, but rather should be made like big, disposable Duracells.

[Greyaxe]

That does beg the question, what does the GR weaponry run off of, a micro fusion reactor in the but of the gun? In most of the new books, the railguns have an eclip and ammo. WHich makes them a lot more expensive to fire than previously thought.

[Aramanthus]

I think the combination eclip and ammo clip makes the most sense in that regard.

[KLM]

[

Actually, e-clips can be reloaded by the squad's APC, thus
giving the unit a prolonged battlefield endurance.

Plus - as a side note - the CG generator IS in the gun.

But the energy needed to power it must come from somewhere.

Adios
KLM

[Esckey]

Doesn't it take 2 attacks to reload? I figure with 2 your not dropping the clip your putting it away and getting a new one.


I agree that a thousand credits for a clip is to much, but 100 is too little. Depends on how durable the clip is, ya don't want it to be made of tinfoil when your in a MDC fight.

[KLM]

you don't keep your clips?....

Well, it is the same stuff todays men at arms are instructed to
not dispose their spent magazines. However, under fire,
most people think, that something useless, like an empty
magazine does not worth the 2-3 sec attention.

Understandable.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Of course.

Question is, are you the one, who controls the field after
the fight, and how much heavy firepower was used in
"terraforming"...

Adios
KLM

[Greyaxe]

Not just alive but in control of the battlefield as well.

There must be a battery in the bottom of the clip to power the rifle. or a second eclip is applied to the rifle somewhere which will provide it with X number of bursts before it must be repalced, say 1000 rounds of ammor or 100 long bursts.

[Aramanthus]

That would be the way to go Greyaxe. I agree.

[KLM]

Not just alive but in control of the battlefield as well.

There must be a battery in the bottom of the clip to power the rifle. or a second eclip is applied to the rifle somewhere which will provide it with X number of bursts before it must be repalced, say 1000 rounds of ammor or 100 long bursts.

Might be... For my part, I would prefer one kind of reload.

(OK, the DMB2 mentions that the clip contains the slugs and the
CG generator... Which is probably false. Especially, when one
considers, that the gun while supposed to look like a Luger
it is actually fashioned after the "broomhandle"Mauser C96
- aka "Blastech DL44" used by Han Solo in a galaxy far-far
away...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luger_pistol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_C96 )

And that means the magazine holds a mini-e-clip.

Adios
KLM

[Aramanthus]

I know what that looks like. My Uncle used to have a broom handle mauser. I got to look at it when I was a kid. It was pretty cool.

[KLM]

I started shooting with the MCM - made famous by
Princess Leia in SW

Adios
KLM

[Aramanthus]

That wasn't mine. And it was sold either just before or after his death.

[KLM]

Neither had I a personal weapon - just found a
sports club.

Adios
KLM

[Rallan]

Bah, if you really want screwy prices in Phase World, Naruni Plasma Cartridge weapons have got GR-Gun ammo beaten hands down.

[Rallan]

Brands are always more expensive... get the knock-offs..... Hey that have me thinking... could those stated prices be those of the OEMs? There would be parallel manufacturers who produce a lower (or equal) quality stuffs at far cheaper prices?

The problem with Plasma Cartridge weapons is that anyone could make them, even low-tech folks like Northern Gun back on Rifts Earth. I mean think about it, they're the simplest MDC energy weapons in town. They've got no power source, they don't generate the plasma themselves, they're basically just nothing but the barrel and trigger of a plasma rifle with all the complicated stuff taken out. Anyone who can make a plasma ejector that won't blow up when you use it would be capable of making a knock-off Plasma Cartridge weapon for a fraction of the cost of a normal energy weapon.

So what do they do? They charge like a wounded bull and give their Plasma Cartridge weapons prices comparable to normal energy pistols, rifles, and heavy energy weapons. It's almost like they want people to think "Hey I could knock that off at half price and still make obscene profits" or something, when if they were smart they'd be flogging those weapons at bargain basement prices and makign their profits on the ammo.

[Greyaxe]

Bah, if you really want screwy prices in Phase World, Naruni Plasma Cartridge weapons have got GR-Gun ammo beaten hands down.

How is that, i was under the impression the costs were prety consistant.

[Aramanthus]

Sometimes things slip by. Trust me it happens to everyone once in a while.

[Aramanthus]

I'm glad we have already figured out the answer for the topic! And yet the topic still lives!



What sort of limit would you put on the number of rounds that a massive mass driving canon could fire per round? I'm talking starship based weaponry.

[Greyaxe]

I'm glad we have already figured out the answer for the topic! And yet the topic still lives!



What sort of limit would you put on the number of rounds that a massive mass driving canon could fire per round? I'm talking starship based weaponry.

DB6 Three Galaxies answers that question. I dont recall the specifics but the mass driver is listed int he weapons section. I believe it is one shot every other melee, dont quote me on that.

[Greyaxe]

The mass driver is a large weapon fires 20 tonne rocks and inflicts hundreds upon thousand of md to planetary surfaces.

[Aramanthus]

That makes sense. I was trying to return the topic back onto track with that last question.

[KLM]

If it is a nickel-ferrous asteroide, then it is about 3 cubic meters.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Iron has a densitiy of like 7 tons per cubic meter.

That of course presumes, that the chunk of metal
shot from the mass driver is a solid piece of metal, not
the "heap of pebbles", asteroids are supposed to be.

-------
On the other hand... a 20 ton asteroid probably will burn
away in the atmosphere... unless it has an MDC heat shield
cap.

Adios
KLM

[Aramanthus]

Maybe not. If you fire it at the right speed and angle it should be able to punch thru the atmosphere long before it burns up.

[KLM]

I guess a ship able to mount a mass driver (ie. more than
a kilometer long) is able to mount a small furnace to melt and
forge MDC projectiles which are able to enter an atmosphere.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Why not?

After all, those furnaces can be used to forge
armor plates after a battle. Or create spare
parts... And so on. Remember, the Quatoria
and the Machine People have nanotech which
is able to create MDC armor plates or even
complicated cybernetic (boinic) parts.

Again, this is something that must be classified,
and written up as "standard spaceship equipment".

Adios
KLM

[Rallan]

I guess a ship able to mount a mass driver (ie. more than
a kilometer long) is able to mount a small furnace to melt and
forge MDC projectiles which are able to enter an atmosphere.

Adios
KLM

Dude, that's easy. The USA and USSR back in the 1960s were capable of creating projectiles which are able to enter an atmosphere, and those projectiles were almost all empty space. And that was pretty damn simple stuff. If you wanted to drop a humungous asteroid onto a planet, all you'd need would be the computational abilities available to the 1960s, and the mass available to... well, the math available to a sci-fi system where spacecraft several times the dimensions and mass of a 20th century aircraft carrier can be hurled at faster-than-light velocities all over the place.

[Aramanthus]

Also thinking along Rallan's line is that the US had an idea for a weapon system called "Thor". It never went beyond design and mathematical stage. All they had to do was to lob a small piece of Transuramic metal at a target and wa-la you have a non-nuclear nuclear explosion. It would have been able to take out major parts of cities. (I'm not sure of the blast damage, but it was said to have been prety big. Even the MOAB would have been very tiny to compared to this.) And now you think about a piece of iron about 20 tons hurled at near light speed. It'll be bigger than 100 megatons. So think about that. It'll devastate entire sections of a continent.

[Aramanthus]

It was never built as far as I know. It was only a feasibilty study. And they mentioned how much it could devastate.

[Aramanthus]

The one thing you could say about it was that it would have been a clean hit. There would have been no radiation from the blast.

[Aramanthus]

Shockwave and fireball from the impact but it's clean!

[Aramanthus]

Not really. It is still carrying an immense amount of heat with it. It may not be as big as a nuke's fireball, but it'll toast the target. And if it doesn't the shockwave will!

[Aramanthus]

Since we really don't know what it was..... And actually I thought it did have a blast radius. There were knocked over and burnt trees for miles from around the point of impact.

[Aramanthus]

You had better do better research Darkmax. I remember there being mentioned a blast radius that strecthed for miles.

[Aramanthus]

LOL! Good one! Back on topic! Although the space based capitol ship weapons are still on target. Maybe someday we'll know what "Tunguska" was.

[Aramanthus]

No one knows what Tunguska was! There are a lot of theories on it.

Any way back on target!