Demon Bones...

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:31 pm

I would answer:

1. Yes.
2. As much as the most expensive components listed are.

Maddog · Unread post by **Maddog** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:23 pm

The prices for Demon bones can be found in the main book, remember Alchemists may only buy for 1/2 retail price. The real question is: How many Lbs of bones will you get from a Demon?

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:24 pm

20% of the demon's weight.

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:26 pm

I do not remember seeing demon bones price given.

Come to think of it.. how many pounds of bone is the book pricing?

I wish I were at home right now...

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:58 pm

On the other, finding an alchemist or a trusthworthy buyer with that kind of bank might be an adventure all by itself.

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:41 pm

Where is my diabolist when I need her!?

I am pretty sure it was never that specific though.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 7:20 pm

Also remember that, per RUE ad BTS2, supernatural creatures dissolve into goo when killed away from their home plane.

Northern Ranger · Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:00 pm

Mr. Nexx is right (as usual), when a demon is killed away from it's home plane they pretty much just melt away to nothingness. Which means, in order to retrieve bones or anything like that, you'd have to kill it on it's home plane of Hades (or Dyval, depending on what you're fighting). Correct me if I'm wrong (Mr. Nexx might know the answer to this one), but doesn't being on it's home plane make it more powerful than if it is faced on the mortal plane?

Northern Ranger · Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:28 pm

insanigoth wrote:
MrNexx wrote:Also remember that, per RUE ad BTS2, supernatural creatures dissolve into goo when killed away from their home plane.

that is helpful.. but.. for my sake.. since my Acronym decipherer fizzed out on me this morning.. could you let me know which books they are?

That would be "Rifter Ultimate Edition" and "Beyond the Supernatural 2nd Edition" Insanigoth.

J. Lionheart · Unread post by **J. Lionheart** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:30 am

Northern Ranger wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong (Mr. Nexx might know the answer to this one), but doesn't being on it's home plane make it more powerful than if it is faced on the mortal plane?

We don't yet have the Hades and Dyval books to confirm, but at this point, I'm not aware of any canon material that would suggest demons or deevils are more powerful on their home plane.

Reagren Wright · Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:34 am

When that rule about demons & deevils dissolving into goo came out
in BtS, I was so glad because the few times that my players
did kill one, some of them would go hog wild trying to
chop them up. However, I'm wondering how exactly are these
"parts" going to be taken if their bodies do dissolve. I'm thinking
if a part is severed, it doesn't go gooy, but if the entire body dies,
then it does. Does this seem fair?

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:16 am

Seems fair.

On the other hand, if you are playing with the rules you have available (or choose to make available), this might be a non-issue.

Bones and skins of such beasts are an integral part of PFRPG. Citing RUE and BTS take that aspect of the game away.

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:19 am

CaptRory wrote:I thought the permanance ward had to be made out of one piece of bone. The the question isn't how much bone can you harvest, but how many bones large enough can you harvest? Legs and arms might give you 4 to 8 if you're lucky. Demon skull would be 1 I think.

The permanence symbol is cared in the bone. Most bones would be big enough for the ward, and I would not rule against sawing a femur into a few slices either...

Northern Ranger · Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:24 pm

J. Lionheart wrote:
Northern Ranger wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong (Mr. Nexx might know the answer to this one), but doesn't being on it's home plane make it more powerful than if it is faced on the mortal plane?

We don't yet have the Hades and Dyval books to confirm, but at this point, I'm not aware of any canon material that would suggest demons or deevils are more powerful on their home plane.

Thanx Lionheart, you've just given me even more reason to await those books, (as if I needed one). Hopefully it does come up with some sort of rule to that effect, as it seems to make sense to me.

J. Lionheart · Unread post by **J. Lionheart** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 2:05 pm

CaptRory wrote:The permanence symbol is cared in the bone. Most bones would be big enough for the ward, and I would not rule against sawing a femur into a few slices either...

I wouldn't rule against chopping up a bone either, that's easy enough.

Thing is, the ward isn't carved in the bone, it is carved from the bone. The main symbol must remain one single part, and the other symbols must be carved from the same bone. This is the big part of why it takes 120 hours to make one. You're can't just scratch this in the surface, you have to get yourself a flat-sided wafer out of the middle of the bone, and carve away everything that doesn't belong.

The minimum size of a ward is one inch - can you imagine trying to carve an item as precise and complicated as a permanance ward out of bone, keeping it only an inch high? That's just about "Actual Size" of the drawing in the PF mainbook, with significant portions well under a millimeter wide. That should take some serious skill rolls to do; bone is strong, but not THAT strong. One scrape slightly too hard with the knife, and it's broken, not to mention completely useless.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:33 pm

Precisely, J. Lionheart. It is not an easy job that Diabolists have. And I agree with the suggestion that a removed piece from a non-killed supernatural creature wouldn't dissolve.

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:09 pm

J. Lionheart wrote:Thing is, the ward isn't carved in the bone, it is carved from the bone.

Hmm. So whittling not carving?

J. Lionheart · Unread post by **J. Lionheart** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:25 pm

lather wrote:
J. Lionheart wrote:Thing is, the ward isn't carved in the bone, it is carved from the bone.

Hmm. So whittling not carving?

I suppose that's one way to put it, yes. I'm not a wood-worker, so I don't know if those are technically different than each other, but I think in common parlance that might be a fair distinction.

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:02 pm

Huh, never read the "from" like that in the description.

Cool, thanks.

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:33 pm

Lord NorDeth wrote:I think (in this case) the distinction is very important.

It is important, but it is not clear which way to go. They are demons, even if sub. They are not demons because they are sub. Hmm. Could go either way. I would say they are demons. I am not opposed to it going the other way; I just would not do it that way.

J. Lionheart · Unread post by **J. Lionheart** » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:24 am

Personally I could have sworn that I've read some very specific text stating the Gargoyle bones can NOT be used as demon bones, but I can not find it, so didn't post anything.

In my games, that wouldn't work, but I don't want to give a definite answer here without being able to cite it :-/

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:01 pm

We do not do that goo thing either.

Need to buy more books, I guess

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