Starting a new PFRPG (1st. ed.) Campaign - any gotchas?

Northern Ranger · Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:18 pm

Hey Cav, first off, I'm shocked that anyone even still plays first edition. I did, (also about twenty years ago), but have long since upgraded. Still, if it's what you've got, it's what you've got. (Welcome back, by the way.) It's been awhile since I've looked at anything first edition, though I do still have a few of the books. As I recall, magic users are a lot trickier in first than they are in second ed., so watch out for that. (The use of PPE in 2nd Ed. has really simplified the use of mages now. I believe first edition still went off of a certain number of spells cast a day, but I could be wrong.) You don't want your players to overdo it if they're that limited by first edition rules. (Just a note, if you are interested in picking up any second edition books, try looking on Amazon.com, as I've found lots of used stuff on there REALLY cheap! And it's in good shape too! That's how I've gotten most of my Rifters. Just yesterday they had a main rule book for second edition on there for under five dollars, so give it looksee.)

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:58 pm

There is a sticky that compares the two editions. you might find some useful info there.

By the way, I play 1st edition, too. Personally, I think it is better.

No major gotchas come to mind, really. Not a big fan of the magic system, but it works. And PPE is easy to drop in.

Otherwise, enjoy.

t0m · Unread post by **t0m** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:53 am

i still use my 1st ed rulebook (had it for 15 years). i do however use the new rules for some things too but i only got 2nd edition about 2 years ago, and there are some things that i didnt like about them so i play a mix now.

we use ppe, and the new rule for rolling stats (extra bonus dice for rolling high), i use the combat charts from 1st ed, and no living creature has an sdc rating. the skills are laid out better in 2nd ed (no charts to look up for % rolls) and the actual book has a bit more world information and stuff in it (but its also minus giants and faeries

).

as for house rules im not even going to start. i have been playing so long that i cant distinguish house from real rules. i highly recommend using miniatures for combat though, which is something the rules dont account for. there are a few threads here on that topic if you choose to try it/dont want to make your own rules/dont know where to start...

good luck with your game, hopefully everyone has a good time. my current group (and my last group) are all ex-d&d guys from 10+ years ago and they all love playing palladium enough to get them back into rpgs with a vengeance. in fact, they enjoy it enough to buy the books i dont have and give them to me (cuz i cant afford it either lol). last xmas i finished my set and finally have every book for fantasy

Ronin Shinobi · Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:15 pm

Play 2nd edition but I still have my 1st edition books. Only use them for references. :wink:

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:47 pm

miniatures for combat is a good advice... for any game.

J. Lionheart · Unread post by **J. Lionheart** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:57 am

Only reason I changed to 2E from 1E is because that's what all the new material came out as :-P

I love 1E.

1E is an entirely valid system in and of itself, and really doesn't have a lot of major problems or hang-ups I can recall. The plate armor issue mentioned elsewhere really doesn't apply to 1E nearly so much as 2E, and personally, I think it isn't a problem there either. It's really no big, and I have many characters in 2E walking around in studded leather or chainmail without an issue. All it takes is players willing to make a character with honest rolls, and pick skills according to logic instead of min-maxing.

I'd say that the one thing you may consider doing is upgrading the hit points of certain major monters and figures. The hit point totals listed in the books for some things that ought to be quite powerful, are laughable. If you're not using those monsters, obviously that's not an issue.

The place issues would arise would be if you had players who had played 2E before, and were now reverting. So long as that isn't the case, you should be golden.

t0m · Unread post by **t0m** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:17 pm

I'm not to worried about that, or min-maxing. I can min-max my baddies, too Smile

thats the spirit

lather · Unread post by **lather** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:23 pm

Good way to handle min-maxers, especially the ones that never come back.

J. Lionheart · Unread post by **J. Lionheart** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:21 pm

Welcome (back) arsgeek. Great to have even more PFers show up on the forums. If you've got questions after your absence, feel free to post them around here. You're likely to get some good answers, and possibly a nice lively debate :-)

t0m · Unread post by **t0m** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:04 pm

but it's always the 3-4 year long Palladium campaign that I compare everything else against.

me too man

Yisterwald · Unread post by **Yisterwald** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:58 pm

cavtroop wrote:Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate it!

We are all looking forward to this - good to know the Plate issue isn't too bad in 1E. None of us have done more than dabble in 2E, and that was years and years ago, so I'm not to worried about that, or min-maxing. I can min-max my baddies, too

Kudos on trying a straight 1st Edition game -- it's simply better. Hybrids with 2nd Edition are nice, and that's how I play now, but if I had to pick one or the other to play as a purebred game 1st Edition would win hands down.

Here's the thing about "gotchas" -- 1st Edition Palladium's rules set isn't very crunchy, and ultimately isn't really about realism. There are a few gotchas in there. The combat round is strangely long, movement is a little cloudy, armor has some minor problems, and so on. (all that having been said, 2nd is no better on the cloudy stuff, and introduces additional hassles of its own) Your group has to be both reasonably mature and comfortable with arriving at sensible rulings on your own. If you can do that it's a great setting with fun characters and a decent rules set emphasizing ingenuity and good play.

Now to your armor question. Armor won't be as much of a problem for you as it is in 2nd because characters aren't as ridiculous. But one problem you will run into is that armor falls apart quite rapidly in combat. The house rule I use to mitigate this is to assign damage to the armor's SDC based on the dice used to determine weapon damage, rather than the damage roll itself. With this in place a 1d6 weapon, like a dagger, does 1 point of SDC damage to armor. A 2d6 weapon, like a flail, does 2 points of SDC. A 3d6 weapon, like a halberd, does 3 points of SDC, and so on. The occasional 1d4 weapon or 1d8 weapon I round up or down to the nearest d6.

It's fast, its easy, and your fighters won't be looking for new armor after every combat -- though they can get to looking pretty battered after a while.

Have fun, man. And look to the Cutting Room Floor section of the Palladium site. There's a fully fleshed out 1st Edition adventure there -- The Arms of Nargash-tor. Don't miss is. It's a good one.

Northern Ranger · Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:05 pm

I can't remember how it works in 1e, but in second the skill for detect concealment and traps also deals with disarming. I believe it is done at something like half the skill total, or something like that. (I've always felt that disarming traps should be its own skill, perhaps strictly used as an OCC skill for rogue classes?) Anyways, you're right in that its a little confusing, this has caused headaches in my own games as well. But check the fine print on those Rogue and espionage skills, it might say something about disarming traps in there.

Northern Ranger · Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:53 pm

cavtroop wrote:Hey all

Just wanted to drop back in and let you know that my foray back into 1st edition went off last Friday night with a bang - we all had a blast (at least I did, and hope the others did!)

A few hiccups, a little confusion (what do YOU do for spot checks?) but otherwise went very well.

Thanks for all the tips, I'll be sure to hang around here for more!

Cav

Hey Cav, just curious, but does your name mean that you are a Cavalry Soldier? I'm only wondering because I was cav in the army too. It's not so common to run into fellow scouts in the world.
As to spot checks, i usually have my players roll perception checks. If you're uncertain what perception checks should be there are several threads about it here on the forums. Check 'em out.

Northern Ranger · Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:04 am

I was stationed in Korea from '95 til the middle of '96. Then Fort Polk till i got out a few years later. Nice to know there are other scouts out there that are into Palladium. didn't know any when I was in.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:01 am

Northern Ranger wrote:I was stationed in Korea from '95 til the middle of '96. Then Fort Polk till i got out a few years later. Nice to know there are other scouts out there that are into Palladium. didn't know any when I was in.

I was in Korea from '88-'90; my Dad was with the TNT. Where were you stationed?

Northern Ranger · Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:28 pm

MrNexx wrote:
Northern Ranger wrote:I was stationed in Korea from '95 til the middle of '96. Then Fort Polk till i got out a few years later. Nice to know there are other scouts out there that are into Palladium. didn't know any when I was in.

I was in Korea from '88-'90; my Dad was with the TNT. Where were you stationed?

"First Tank." First of the Seventy-Second Armor Batallion, Camp Casey Korea, Tongduchon. (Not sure on the spelling of the name, but it's close, I think.)

Library Ogre · Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:25 pm

Northern Ranger wrote:
MrNexx wrote:
Northern Ranger wrote:I was stationed in Korea from '95 til the middle of '96. Then Fort Polk till i got out a few years later. Nice to know there are other scouts out there that are into Palladium. didn't know any when I was in.

I was in Korea from '88-'90; my Dad was with the TNT. Where were you stationed?

"First Tank." First of the Seventy-Second Armor Batallion, Camp Casey Korea, Tongduchon. (Not sure on the spelling of the name, but it's close, I think.)

I got it from that; we were in Seoul, though is unit spent a lot of time in the DMZ; it was about that time they found the fourth tunnel.

The Dark Elf · Unread post by **The Dark Elf** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:49 am

We still play (for now) 1st ed. In fact I have all of the books and convert 2nd ed stuff into 1st ed!!

Mainly cos we are still running the characters we've been campaigning with for the last 13 years! and yes they are uber!

Next campaign will be 2nd ed. (its gonna be and eastern terr, Timiro, Place of magic campaign - then off to LoD - due to the fact that the will have an old one essence traped in a diamond that they need to get rid of hehe).

PS If you play my games then Ive just spoiled it

Yisterwald · Unread post by **Yisterwald** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:22 pm

The Dark Elf wrote:PS If you play my games then Ive just spoiled it

Until they realize the entire thing was a lie... 8-)

maasenstodt · Unread post by **maasenstodt** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:46 am

Given the choice, unless my gaming group simply couldn't find 1st ed. materials, I'd play 1st ed. over 2nd ed. without hesitation. As others have said, in many ways, 1st ed. is just a better game.

One thing that I appreciate is that the core book is much more complete than the 2nd ed. version. It includes a healthy selection of the animals, monsters, dragons, and gods that 2nd ed. forces you to buy two additional sourcebooks to get access to.

While I've been playing Castles & Crusades (a superb FRPG) for the last year, my desire to try out the Mythic GM Emulator with a well crafted gaming environment (PFRPG's strongest feature) has me looking at going back to PFRPG (and 1st ed. in particular) for a spell.