Genetic Augmentation in Phase World

[Carl Gleba]

Just wondering if anyone has used the Eugenics Hero in Powers Unlimited 2 to modify their characters in the Phase World setting? Last year when I was running my PW group I was letting the human galactic tracer buy upgrades with his bounty money. Of course he was upgrading himself. There were certain stepping stones before he could get some of the big ones, and last I recall he spent several million doing numerous upgrades. Did anyone feel the need to modify the prices or did you convert it dollar for credit?

For those of you itching for hints about the Minion War I'm working on Armageddon Unlimited right now, specifically some of the N.P.C.'s and reading over the Eugenics Heroes reminded me about it. Demon and Deevil DNA. Now what could be done with that?

Carl

[9voltkilowatt]

Demon and Deevil DNA. Now what could be done with that?

Carl

MMMmmm, evil on the genetic level, I like it.

[Greyaxe]

Demonic Supervillans, with shapeshifting powers and enhanced psionics. Ewww, gotta getta rail gun with D-rounds.

[DhAkael]

Two words;
Adeptus Astartes
Thank you.. you may now return to your mundane lives

[Greyaxe]

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Marines_(Warhammer_40,000)" In responce to the previous post.

[Greyaxe]

what's with these people with mightier-than-thee complex?....

Me?

[Esckey]

I've only used it as a way to get an idea on how expensive(and the treatment time) it would be to take someone that's been living in Zero G all their lives and put them back to a 1 G standard of health

[DhAkael]

what's with these people with mightier-than-thee complex?....

Becuase they are... simple
That being said, I'm an Eldar fan my-self.

[taalismn]

I figure most of the advanced Human worlds in Three Galaxies have something similar to the Mild Genetic Engineering discussed in Rifts: Chaos Earth and the Golden Age....minor pre-natal adjustments bought by parents(and perhaps mandated by some governments) adding a few extra points or a dice roll to their initial stats...
More radical enhancements are treated the same way as Lethal(or with combat applications; anything beyond remedial medical work) Cybertech in Rifts....some cultures ban it altogether(and use genetic testing to discover it) while others have a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy...or may require recipients to register(or require special permits to get the stuff), just like weapons...

[RockJock]

I had thought about using PU2 Eugenics for a Naruni employed NPC awhile back, but I went with the genetic augmentations in AU:GG instead. The GG version is more limited, and fit what I was going for. I wanted sort of an Annie Oakley type character to be a roving sales add for Naruni's range of cowboy style handguns. Basically a young, beautiful human, or near human major psychic with genetics mods like Ambidextrous, Motion Detection, Adrenaline Surge, Radar, Advanced Sight, Heightened Sense of Hearing, and Smell. The last was the Pheromone option from Eugenics. It is pretty over the top, especially for a Gunslinger, but several of the powers like the hearing and sight are easy enough to get with cybernetics. Equipped with Naruni handguns, and force fields as well as custom western style Gauntlets of Quick Hands and Boots of Fleetness, and armored duster made for an insane gunslinger. As I said, she was an NPC and pulled the PCs butts out of the flame several times, but always at a heavy price.

I think many 3G world should have access to one level of genetic modification or another. If it was me, I would limit the possibilities somewhat. It would make sense for a human world with more IR light to have IR modified vision as an example. Some worlds would have more powers available then others, some might have unique powers, while some may frown upon the whole idea. I would also think that there would be certain negatives that have kept the practice from becoming common. Price would definitely be one. Another could be the problems with infertility, or even from passing major mutations onto children.

[taalismn]

TOO much augmentation, and you might lose your legal claim to be of a specific species/race, since your DNA is so much a mishmash of others...esepcially if you go with an 'animorph' package....

[taalismn]

Ouch...just considered the further implications/applications of this technology...we have slave cyborgs...why not slave eugens....Mess a person up bad enough and even if they escape, they'll have trouble proving to their own people that they're who they claim to be...or escape is made all the more difficult if they're altered so much as to be unable to live in their former environment(like bioengineering some sap to be a deep sea worker at an underwater mine....they can't come to the surface without bursting like a balloon and suffocating in open air...).

[RockJock]

Look up a book by the author Douglas Dixon. I think the name of this specific book is Man After Man. Anyway it gives a detailed fake history of a future where mankind alters itself to the point of not being human anymore. Another book, After Man deals with some fun ideas for new animals.

[Braden Campbell]

We don't see any obvious signs of genetic modification in the setting (save for the Genesplicers)... so perhaps the question should be: why?

[RockJock]

Gardin, I took over GMing someone else's game which was lets, say pushing the limits? All of the PCs have millions worth of equipment on their bodies, and most are major psychics to boot. I have no problem with a high powered campaign, but this group was use to going up against quick roll book NPCs with super characters. I desired to fight fire with fire. I threw in enemies and sometime allies that were at least a match for the PCs, plus started using over looked rules like the CS, or NG arms dealers not being to thrilled when you walk into town with NE gear strapped to everything. The NPC in question was meant to be the best slinger NE could produce as a sales gimmicks. Observers, and possible buyers didn't need to know that the shooter was magically, and genetically enhanced. They were told it was all the guns, not the girl.

[Braden Campbell]

I was actually thinking why we don't see CAF "Space Marines".

In the Fleets manuscript, it is strongly suggested that the Humans of the CCW hate Artificial Intelligences, and thus the reason why there aren't hordes of battle droids deffending Terra Prime.

Could it be the overt genetic mutation/manipulation is also illegal in the Consortium?

[RockJock]

Well, the hearing and vision are really no different then the cybernetic versions, the same with motion detection. Ambidextrous and the psychics are always a possibility, and the psychics are minor physical powers like TK Leap as opposed to Sixth Sense, and Intuitive Combat. That leaves the Adrenalin Rush, and the magic equipment which could have been done with a suit of exoskeleton body armor. Considering there is Mystic Knight with 6 Atlantean tattoos along with TW armor, a Russian Shock Trooper with a WI rotary grenade launcher as his main weapon, the first European Mega Juicer with a rune hammer (yes, rune hammer), and a Ronin True Samurai with magic Russian armor, and a Zen bow.

[Carl Gleba]

Anyway, I think Carl is talking about in terms of "Player Rewards" more than having a chop-shop on every world (but he'll have to tell us for certain).

Hmmm, a nice dark, run-down factory on one of the lower levels of Center might be another good place to have one. Perhaps the management has gotten so rich that they have their own portal in Gateland...hmmm, good food for thought Carl.

Well not on every world, but Center yes. Now how prevalent would it be in the 3G? I'm thinking it would be available on the ultra tech worlds, but may not be desired by everyone. I could see special eugenics units in the CAF. I would think there would be some cases were some societies went through a period similar to treks eugenics war.

Overall I was just wondering if you guys used it at all? Plus do you think the cost in PU2 are good for PW or should they be adjusted?

Carl

[taalismn]

Look up a book by the author Douglas Dixon. I think the name of this specific book is Man After Man. Anyway it gives a detailed fake history of a future where mankind alters itself to the point of not being human anymore. Another book, After Man deals with some fun ideas for new animals.

Also Life Instead of Man which explores what might have happened if the mammals HADN'T gained ascendancy...(I particularly like the giant floating nautili...)

[taalismn]

Anyway, I think Carl is talking about in terms of "Player Rewards" more than having a chop-shop on every world (but he'll have to tell us for certain).

Hmmm, a nice dark, run-down factory on one of the lower levels of Center might be another good place to have one. Perhaps the management has gotten so rich that they have their own portal in Gateland...hmmm, good food for thought Carl.

Well not on every world, but Center yes. Now how prevalent would it be in the 3G? I'm thinking it would be available on the ultra tech worlds, but may not be desired by everyone. I could see special eugenics units in the CAF. I would think there would be some cases were some societies went through a period similar to treks eugenics war.

Sorry, Carl, to hijack your original intent, but there's too much juicy social material here.....

Also consider that some cultures might regard eugenic engineering as the only way to survive the pre-Starfaring Age 'crunch period' where the ability to move out from the homeworld hasn't yet exceeded the population curve and diminishment of natural resources...Some societies might turn to eugenics to design successors better able to survive...smaller children, who use less resources, are able to eat even poisoned foods, handle toxins in the air, more resistant to disease, etc....or something more radical like Masamune Shirow's 'Dominion' and its 'Project Greenpeace'----docile, nonaggressive humanoids who are essentially living air cleaners...Or human predators designed to weed out the less fit folks....

These cultures could emerge onto the galactic scene with their eugenics technology intact, and possibly for sale, though that might mean taking a 'package' deal, rather than 'pick and choose' what features you wanted...(sure, you get the extra lung and air filters for 25% less than other societies are asking, but do you really want the acid rain-proof leather-skin that makes you look like an iguana that goes with the respiratory improvements?)

[Aramanthus]

I can actually see mankind adjusting itself thru genetics to colonize as many planets as they can as we expand out into the universe. I personally see no problem with it being around in the 3G's. Unlike the present view by so many people who are scared of it.

[DhAkael]

what's with these people with mightier-than-thee complex?....

Me?

No, not you. DhAkael.

Because... I am

[KLM]

Well not on every world, but Center yes. Now how prevalent would it be in the 3G? I'm thinking it would be available on the ultra tech worlds, but may not be desired by everyone. I could see special eugenics units in the CAF. I would think there would be some cases were some societies went through a period similar to treks eugenics war.

Overall I was just wondering if you guys used it at all? Plus do you think the cost in PU2 are good for PW or should they be adjusted?

Carl

For my part, I think that the CCW already uses genetic augmentation
for its human citizens live over 200 years.

The top of the line - as in many fields - are the Altess.

------------------

Now, how widespread is - in "my" 3 Galaxies - genetic augmentation?

Not really.

I mean for medical purposes, yes, it is widespread and every
power spends a measurable part of its budget on genetics.

But the creation of superpowered mutants... Well, it is rare
(even with the Invincible Guard). Kinda similar to bionics,
juicer and MoM augmentation.

It is present, but most people are not itching to get one.

After all, it is not a place where humanity is an endangered species...
(you know, Rifts Earth). Well, mostly.

-----------
The aforementioned "Eugenics War" idea... Definitely happened
a few times. Probably that was a leading reason why the Altess
dynasty looks like this.

Same for artifical intelligences.

We have at least three instances when machines rebelled.
(Machine People, the golgan coffee machines and some
nanotech plagued planet...).

Same for genetically engineered slaves (Kreeghor).

In-game I will blame the Cosmic Forge, saying that that thing
propagates "life"...

Out-of character, as a GM I prefer the "static world" scenario,
where century old warship still pose a threat.

Adios
KLM

[RockJock]

I like the Eugenics War idea. It would explain why little NEMA style genetic upgrades aren't the standard for everyone.

[Aramanthus]

They could have that capability already. But they might not want to run it unless they have too. They are saving it for an emergency.......... Say the Minion wars to deploy their new super soldiers.

[KLM]

I guess it is more like everyone lives over 150 years, noone catches
a cold, and so on.

But no Khan K. Singh-like (or no Spiderman-like) outstanding
individuals (or groups). Just small - carefully tested and dosed -
step, one or two in a generation (and that means like a century).

Otherwise the tension might destroy the culture.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Outbreak of super powered beings?

[Aramanthus]

Yeah, but the Minion wars would force the situation where the super powers of the 3G's will have to do anything to survive the coming maelstrom.

[Carl Gleba]

Yeah, but the Minion wars would force the situation where the super powers of the 3G's will have to do anything to survive the coming maelstrom.

That's assuming said governments even know about the Minion War. Many are currently distracted with the Forge War! Who knows what evil may be lurking just beneath the surface working to corrupt what many worked so hard to build.

Carl

[Braden Campbell]

Forge War in the Anvil...

Intruder Threat in the Corkscrew...

The Scramble for the Thunderclolud...


The Three Galaxies are a busy place right now. Most people will never see the Minion War coming.

[DhAkael]

Oh..and please lets not forget what the individual GM's are doing outside of the meta-plots

The first-born Demon-Stars are returning..slowly but steadily. Ancient evils between the great galaxies are re-awakening in the black void.

...And rather banal evil of mere mortals added into the mix.

GOODE TYMES!

[Carl Gleba]

Yes, let's hope someone doesn't wake the Old Ones up....

Its cool we're all safe. The gate keeper to the old ones is called Kevin, and his sword is named Siembieda, and none shall pass!

Carl

[taalismn]

Yeah, but while he's watching the Old Ones, idiots like Aerihman are sneaking around eager to stoke up more trouble...

Toss in whatever trouble could come crawling through a Rift inadvertantly openned by any of the big three troubles previously mentioned, and it as as cave divers say..."You Prepare for Everything Except What Will Kill You..."

[RockJock]

There are things worse then demons.

I would think that eugenic upgrades would be most common on the fringes. Worlds that are in the process of being terraformed, or are slightly outside the normal comfort zone of the inhabitants would drive minor augmentation. Eyes that work in different light conditions, breathing underwater, or in low O2 environs, maybe even eugenic versions of the HU Alien Environment body changes (high gravity, low gravity, high radiation etc).

I would think groups like humans and elves would go for it more then some of the other races. A big portion of the 3Gs already have natural, genetically modified, or magically induced powers. You have the Kreegor, Draconids, Catyrn, Seljek, Noro, and so on. Even the Wulfen/Wolfen are more then a match for humans unaugmented with enhanced attributes and senses. You also have groups like the Wolfen Star Marshals, or Oni that make heavier then average use of bionics.

[Aramanthus]

You are right Carl about them not knowing it is comong. I'm still guessing that these programs are there and established before the war begins. They might be working at a low ebb, or else they might need to be brought on line. BUt I'd say that the programs are there somewhere.

[Aramanthus]

Not necessarily. Look at ours. It's not one of the priorities today. ALthough it should have a higher one than it does.

[KLM]

IMO some critical scientific breakthrough might come
in a different times than in the case of our civilisations.

Therefore eugenics might predate space flight - or vice
versa.

Adios
KLM

[Carl Gleba]

Darkmax is probably right and eugenics will help out in the final frontier. However I don't think the science of eugenics and space flight are tied together. They could easily evolve independently of each other and could be years or even decades apart.

Carl

[KLM]

Eugenics might have its roots set by Gregor Mendel's peas.

But even before that humans were tampering with genetics

(chiuhaua dogs, apple, tulips, even the taboo of incest...
and the instances that "inbreedin" were used for royal
families, to preserve the "sacred blood".)

-----------
As for space flight... Well, if in the Cold War, they did not pass
the "no nukes in space" agreement, plus if the Soviet Union
paid more attention to economics... Well, 2001 Space Odyssey
is a good start.

Adios
KLM

[Aramanthus]

I'm sure that both techs will continue to develope seperately. Although once we reach the stars we'll be using it as we cross the stars.

[KLM]

random breeding or inbreeding is a form of eugenics?....

What you call "random" breeding is in my perspective
is avoiding a factor of faulty genes.

Inbreeding IS a form of eugenics, just... Well it means
that we have to take out faulty individuals from the
gene pool. Not something most people would like to
do with children (ie.: Taigetos).

But if inbreeding with such a selection is used, the results
are spectacular.

Adios
KLM

[Kesslan]

Well on the subject of offering a diverse number of 'bio mods' one could simply offer bio versions of bionic/cybernetic systems in many situations. Which is infact what Shadowrun is doing. Here is an example from SR..

Wired Reflexes, which is a cybernetic enhancement to the body that increases how many attacks you get, as well as initative etc. It's really abit of a hybrid as it involves some bio augmentation but still has alot of metal going into the body.

This eventualy gave rise to..

Synaptic Accelerator. It does the -exact- same thing as far as the combat system goes. The only differnece is that it costs a great deal more (Since it's much higher tech level basically). But it's pure 'flesh'. No metal etc.

They also have various nano enhancements and thats pretty standard for any cyberpunk type setting. I see no reason why, at least the possiblity shouldnt be there. I mean look at everything allready being done. Supernatural MDC creatures are being bio-engineered. Other, mundane races are beign ehanced to these levels.

And of course being fictional you can make up what ever you like to explain how it works. And just stay rather vague on it since afterall it's a fictional enhancement of the body.

As for handling the legality of such modifications. They'd probably be about the same as cybermetic enhancements. Though in cases where such enhancmeents are illegal biomods would be even more so since they are effectively impossible to detect.

[Blue Eyes]

well i have a comment. approximately 8 years ago one of my players created a geneticly modified race (humans) along the lines of "trying to achieve the ultimate soldier" along the lines of the juicer or crazy creations/augmentations. i really liked the idea and also liked the argument that modifying a human via genetics makes more sense than using drugs or cybernetics. drugs destray the body and cybernetics and bionícs actually dehumanize the human, making him more machine than man.
i believe that the science of geneticly altering humans to improve them, make them faster, stronger, heal faster, smarter, erradicate deseases etc is possible, but the ethics concerning it, is what is holding us back, and maybe that is okay?
i liked my rifts africa book alot and we have played there for years with me as a gm, and one of the ideas i used or followed was that several rogue scientists, both people interested in paranormal studies but also corporations doing genetic research set up centers in africa because they were banned from europe and america during "the golden age of mankind". this was alot of fun hehe

BE

[KLM]

i believe that the science of geneticly altering humans to improve them, make them faster, stronger, heal faster, smarter, erradicate deseases etc is possible, but the ethics concerning it, is what is holding us back, and maybe that is okay?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Noonian_Singh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InVitro

---------
Basically genetic engineering on an adult specimen is
tricky.

I mean one has to alter each and every cell in the body
(that includes the brain), and during that, the individual
must preserve his/her personality, experiences, memories...

And this might not be possible - since just watch
someone suffering from a slight neurochemical
imbalance.

Now, altering embrios (preferably in the single cell
stadium) is easier - only one cell needs to be altered.

Then you will have a baby, with more potential than
normal humans. Why would that kid, when grown
up will need us, cavemen?
Or put it in the other way: Judge Lynch might sentence
him to death, just for having the potential to be a Khan Singh.

So, making a "caste" of supersoldiers is a giant step for
what we referred as Eugenics Wars.

But of course, if genetics augmentation is aviable
for adults, it still can lead to E.W., given the right
situation.

Adios
KLM

[KLM]

Ever since babies are screened for genetic faults
or they performed in-womb surgery...

Adios
KLM

[Aramanthus]

It's going to happen sooner or later.

[Aramanthus]

The waqy medical sciences are advancing. Who knows, maybe before I die of old age.

[taalismn]

Already taking place with regards to sperm and egg banks for 'superior' traits...But ironically, a number of people with distinctive physical traits that we might otherwise consider as liabilities or crippling conditions(relative to our modern society) such as dwarfism, are agitating for invitro selection that would allow(a greater chance of) their condition to be passed onto their children(rather than take a chance that genetic pressure will result in their children having more 'normal' attributes).