Wolven or Oni

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:15 pm

Who is the greatest warrior race in the three galaxies.

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:17 pm

Sure I could see atlantean, take a look at the undead slayer.

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:28 pm

Humans, because even without the various racial advantages the rest of the list has, they still manage to meet them on nearly equal terms (and sometimes superior ones).

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:42 pm

I'm voting Human, out of sheer ornery species-pride...Kreeghor(my first choice) are megadamage, but bound by a social system that has them pretty much doomed to be pawns of powers they don't suspect...Seljuk are strong, but limited in numbers...Wolfen are creative and fierce, but honor-bound...Oni have been listening to Amateratsu talk them up as favored kids...

Humans are pathetic...we're weak, slow, deaf, dumb, and blind...what have we got going for us? Calling us warriors is like saying one day rabbits will rise up and take vengeance on the whole food chain above them....Yeah, right!
But we're so soft and squish easily,and there's such a freakin' variety of us in so many professions that even (or maybe ESPECIALLY) knowing how badly we'd get our internal organs re-arranged in a fight with everybody else, we feel we have nothing left to lose...so we get innovative and bloody creative...and we fight dirty...When other races are blabbing about their Duke of Queensbury rules in combat, we're raiding their baggage train....

Screw honor...whoever's standing at the end spins the history...
Megadamage bodies?...Some people take that as a CHALLENGE to overcome....

Braden Campbell · Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:56 pm

I said the Oni, thinking of the Cyberai...

they have to be the most dedicated and skilled killers on the list.

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:22 pm

Well in a surprise victory the humans take the poll with the wolven coming in second palce. I fugures somebody would vote Kreegor...oh well.

The Greatest Warriors are...
Wolven 21% [ 3 ]
Oni 14% [ 2 ]
Kreegor 0% [ 0 ]
Human 35% [ 5 ]
Seljuck 7% [ 1 ]
Other. 21% [ 3 ]

Total Votes : 14

Kesslan · Unread post by **Kesslan** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:39 am

Personally I think you just cant beat the adaptability of humans. The fact that they are also, bar none, the most prolific race out there I think says something.

The T'zee might be a close second to that except their pretty much confined to a single plannet. Humans (or some minor variant thereof) are everywhere, in just about every dimension at least as far as Rifts goes. Even if their just slaves/food/etc.

Course if your talking on an individual basis on the whole, the question gets a great deal more complex in my mind since then you have to start taking agumentations, gear etc into the mix to assess the true 'potential'.

KLM · Unread post by **KLM** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:37 am

Braden, GMPhD wrote:I said the Oni, thinking of the Cyberai...

they have to be the most dedicated and skilled killers on the list.

Well, the Cyberai are less effective killers, then ninja...

Yet, there is a slight, but important distinction
between killers and warriors. Wars are not always
won by piling up enough cold bodies.

After all, wars are the extension of diplomacy.

On the other hand, if in a war one side decides to
solve the matters permanently, it it not the open
kabuto and the sharp monokatana, which will
decide the outcome.

More like the flashy ladies painted on the bombers.

Adios
KLM

Nekira Sudacne · Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:14 pm

Ya know, this isn't a poll of who's the BEST race in the three galaxies. it's not even who'd win the most wars. it's about who's the best WARRIORS, and that rules humans out. pound for pound, they're the worst warriors. that's WHY we get creative, and that's why we win. but that dosn't make us warriors.

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:54 pm

Which is why my vote for Wolven counts as 10 so teh Wolven win Yeaaaaa

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:03 pm

We are the best warriors because, pound for pound, we have so many disadvantages compared all these other races yet we still manage to meet them on an equal footing and even beat them.

A warrior is the one who overcomes challenges, not one beats down lesser oppoenents.

Nekira Sudacne · Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:13 pm

Jefffar wrote:We are the best warriors because, pound for pound, we have so many disadvantages compared all these other races yet we still manage to meet them on an equal footing and even beat them.

A warrior is the one who overcomes challenges, not one beats down lesser oppoenents.

Wrong on both counts. A warrior is someone who fights.

Sure, we can suit ourselves up in fancy tech suits and high tech weaponry and win.

But give exsactly the same circumstances to the other?

The warrior is a person, the equipment is extranious. having better equipment or even better tactics does not a better warrior make.

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:09 pm

Jefffar wrote:We are the best warriors because, pound for pound, we have so many disadvantages compared all these other races yet we still manage to meet them on an equal footing and even beat them.

A warrior is the one who overcomes challenges, not one beats down lesser oppoenents.

Your argument works until you throw a human and a wolven into a pit and watch the wolven eat the humans heart out after he has killed him. Pound per pound humans are disadvantaged enough to loose most fights in the Phase world setting. Our only real advantage is our ability to reporduce like rabits and make friends. That is how humans survive in PW.

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:37 pm

But not every wolfen would beat every human. The fact that a human could win agaisnt such an obvious disadvantage is proof we are a warrior race.

Also, if you want to go pound for pound, you would put 2 or 3 humans in against the Wolfen.

Sgt Anjay · Unread post by **Sgt Anjay** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:48 pm

The question I believe is which is the best warrior race. As a species, who produces the best group of warriors.
The best warriors are the ones who win. Call it simplistic, but it works.
Other races might have stronger warriors, or more talented warriors, or more skilled warriors, or tougher warriors, or faster warriors, or more noble warriors, or less noble warriors, but if they loose then they're not better warriors.
Humans manage to win. They have been outdoing physically superior opponents since their state of the art tech was the pointy stick, their food could sprint many times human top speed, crush them underfoot in stampede or individually, were generally tougher, could gore them with antlers/horns/tusks, had natural camouflage, and sharper senses; at the same time, their rivals for this prey were more heavy-muscled, tougher, fang-laden, claw-bearing predators with sharper senses that evolution had primed to specifically take their chosen prey.
Humans have won when outnumbered, or outgunned, or outequiped, or outsmarted, when things are hopeless, when the fight was already thought lost, when in retreat, when thought destroyed. Its no wonder or miracle since they're born fighters. They win mad, or sad, or reluctant, eager, disheartened or hopefull, hungry or full, in love, or for hate. They'll fight over anything with anyone for nothing, and win.

Rockwolf66 · Unread post by **Rockwolf66** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:38 am

taalismn wrote:Humans are pathetic...we're weak, slow, deaf, dumb, and blind...what have we got going for us? Calling us warriors is like saying one day rabbits will rise up and take vengeance on the whole food chain above them....Yeah, right!

I take it you have not seen a rabbit beat up a large dog. Or even more impressive get up and run after being shot centermass with a .454 Cassul. Rabbits can be surprisingly tough critters.

Kesslan · Unread post by **Kesslan** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:45 am

Rockwolf66 wrote:
taalismn wrote:Humans are pathetic...we're weak, slow, deaf, dumb, and blind...what have we got going for us? Calling us warriors is like saying one day rabbits will rise up and take vengeance on the whole food chain above them....Yeah, right!

I take it you have not seen a rabbit beat up a large dog. Or even more impressive get up and run after being shot centermass with a .454 Cassul. Rabbits can be surprisingly tough critters.

The desire for survival is a powerful motivator. I recall seeing a video of a deer that, when shot with an arrow, turned around and beat the living hell out of the hunter.

Kesslan · Unread post by **Kesslan** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:23 am

Darkmax wrote:err.... survivors are hardly warriors... in fact the hardiest of survivors are literally scums....

Not roaches?

As to scums being the hardiest survivors. I'm not entirely sure of that. There's assorted microbes apparently living in lava and other seemingly impossible places if I recall correctly.

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:31 am

Jefffar wrote:Humans, because even without the various racial advantages the rest of the list has, they still manage to meet them on nearly equal terms (and sometimes superior ones).

It's because the writers are a bit too human-centric.
I picked Wolven. Next would be oni...

Vrykolas2k · Unread post by **Vrykolas2k** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:33 am

taalismn wrote:I'm voting Human, out of sheer ornery species-pride...Kreeghor(my first choice) are megadamage, but bound by a social system that has them pretty much doomed to be pawns of powers they don't suspect...Seljuk are strong, but limited in numbers...Wolfen are creative and fierce, but honor-bound...Oni have been listening to Amateratsu talk them up as favored kids...

Humans are pathetic...we're weak, slow, deaf, dumb, and blind...what have we got going for us? Calling us warriors is like saying one day rabbits will rise up and take vengeance on the whole food chain above them....Yeah, right!
But we're so soft and squish easily,and there's such a freakin' variety of us in so many professions that even (or maybe ESPECIALLY) knowing how badly we'd get our internal organs re-arranged in a fight with everybody else, we feel we have nothing left to lose...so we get innovative and bloody creative...and we fight dirty...When other races are blabbing about their Duke of Queensbury rules in combat, we're raiding their baggage train....

Screw honor...whoever's standing at the end spins the history...
Megadamage bodies?...Some people take that as a CHALLENGE to overcome....

To be a warrior is to have honour. Many humans do. To be a murderer/ killer is to be without honour.

Sgt Anjay · Unread post by **Sgt Anjay** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:27 pm

Were that true humans wouldn't be nearly as important as they are.

Sgt Anjay · Unread post by **Sgt Anjay** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:57 pm

Look around me? There are many, many, many animals with higher reproductive rates that do not dominate the Earth. There are many animals who give birth to young that are self-sufficient at birth, that do not dominate the Earth. There are many animals whose young become self sufficient, and capable of breeding themselves, much more quickly than the rather slow rate of human young; they do not dominate Earth either.
Orcs are said to be prodigious breeders, outdoing humanity, yet have yet to conquer Palladium. The T'zee breed at an enourmous pace, and are bit players.

BTW, where are the reproductive rates of the different races listed?

Greyaxe · Unread post by **Greyaxe** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:13 pm

Sgt Anjay wrote:Look around me? There are many, many, many animals with higher reproductive rates that do not dominate the Earth. There are many animals who give birth to young that are self-sufficient at birth, that do not dominate the Earth. There are many animals whose young become self sufficient, and capable of breeding themselves, much more quickly than the rather slow rate of human young; they do not dominate Earth either.
Orcs are said to be prodigious breeders, outdoing humanity, yet have yet to conquer Palladium. The T'zee breed at an enourmous pace, and are bit players.

BTW, where are the reproductive rates of the different races listed?

Wolven reproduce like dogs in litters of 2d4 every 6 months. Tzee are specified in the PW sourcebook, not sure about orcs.

Sgt Anjay · Unread post by **Sgt Anjay** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:09 pm

So humans reproduce less than wolfen. Humans certainly reproduce less than the T'zee. Are there breeding numbers on the other races? The proposal that humans rely on higher breeding rates for success seems to hold less water.