Female NPC's and believability

[Marrowlight]

Male GM's, I'm wondering how you go about making your female NPC's realistic. Any tricks of the trade that you use?

depends on the situation in question. Not having them sex up every male PC in sight is always a good first step however.

[DhAkael]

Male GM's, I'm wondering how you go about making your female NPC's realistic. Any tricks of the trade that you use?

depends on the situation in question. Not having them sex up every male PC in sight is always a good first step however.

Here here...and also don't make them all lesbian or Bi either.
Ummm... another pointer; ballance out the 'damsel in this dress' with 'Kick-butt heroine'. It takes lots of practice, but as long as you avoid Buffy the Vampire Layer..err SLAYer as your template, you should do okay.

[Talavar]

Don't make gender the focus of the character. Make up your NPC and then think: is anything about them actually dependent on what gender they are?

[Killer Cyborg]

Male GM's, I'm wondering how you go about making your female NPC's realistic. Any tricks of the trade that you use?

Put on a stuffed bra and keep a variety of wigs handy.
Nine times out of ten, this will keep players from pulling the standard "I try to seduce her!" response to any/every female NPC that they encounter.







that tenth time gets pretty weird, though

[asajosh]

Females are people, just play them like male NPCs only with a sexy voice so your players know what's what.. J/K about that last part hehe

Seriously dont let the fact that they are women throw you.

[Marrowlight]

Make them people first, like the male NPCs.

you make your male NPCs people? Objection!

[Marrowlight]

Male GM's, I'm wondering how you go about making your female NPC's realistic. Any tricks of the trade that you use?

Put on a stuffed bra and keep a variety of wigs handy.
Nine times out of ten, this will keep players from pulling the standard "I try to seduce her!" response to any/every female NPC that they encounter.







that tenth time gets pretty weird, though

Now that's a six hour game session I'd pay $1000 to see. Take that Jason!

[shiiv-a]

Male GM's, I'm wondering how you go about making your female NPC's realistic. Any tricks of the trade that you use?

depends on the situation in question. Not having them sex up every male PC in sight is always a good first step however.

Here here...and also don't make them all lesbian or Bi either.
Ummm... another pointer; ballance out the 'damsel in this dress' with 'Kick-butt heroine'. It takes lots of practice, but as long as you avoid Buffy the Vampire Layer..err SLAYer as your template, you should do okay.

i protest a little here.



and DONT give me any of those looks guys .... AND i protest over the obvious censorship of MALE GM'S only .... *sigh*

its not a fact of the female being the one with the over active hormones ... 99% of hte time its the males that have it and act on it.

you should be asking 'how do i make female NPC's realistic?' from various females that visit the forums .. and NOT just assume that male GM's are the know all and be all of information.

1 - not all females wanna jump in the sack. be it with a male or a female or with a whole troop of soldiers
2 - not all females wanna parade about in tight clothing or talk about how their love life is going - and if they do? .. sad ...
3 - not all females are gonna respond to 'hey baby, wanna make my night?' or some other cheesy pickup line
4 - females HAVE interests just like males
5 - females have jobs .. like males
6 - females have responsibilities .. just like guys
7 - some females ARE interested in sports ......

yes .. they are difficult to make up so that they are balanced .. but as a female .. i'm tired of seeing the little sexpot PC's [either male or female running them] .. having the PB's maxed out .. and powerful enough to kill you without trying .. who suddenly when a guy comes about ... suddenly becomes all fingers and ooey gooey giggle pots that suddenly have NO freakin brains.

that is NOT how you run a female ....

now .. besides that. i wish you the best of luck with your designing the female NPC for your game.

[shiiv-a]

you upset cause i'm speaking from a females perspective .. on a subject that i've seen abused to the point of vomiting ... or because i'm female and DARED to post on something that was stated for MALE GM's only ... ?

deal with it

[Marrowlight]

you upset cause i'm speaking from a females perspective .. on a subject that i've seen abused to the point of vomiting ... or because i'm female and DARED to post on something that was stated for MALE GM's only ... ?

deal with it

I was "upset" because you flew off the handle, but removed my post to construct a deeper point by point analysis....and before I could even get to it you're doing so again. If anyone needs to deal with something, it isn't me.

[Marrowlight]

and DONT give me any of those looks guys .... AND i protest over the obvious censorship of MALE GM'S only .... *sigh*

There's always a factor of the unknown when you're role playing as something different than what you are. When a white man portrays a black man, when a black man portrays an asian man, when a man portrays a woman, when a woman portrays a man. As women GM's are already women, they wouldn't necessarily approach this question the same way, because they know what it is like to be a woman. Be upset about this "obvious censorship" all you want, or step back and realize it would be no different than a woman GM asking other women GM's how they roleplay male characters.

its not a fact of the female being the one with the over active hormones ... 99% of hte time its the males that have it and act on it.

Well, that's a matter for Sound Off -- feel free to bring it up there if you want.

you should be asking 'how do i make female NPC's realistic?' from various females that visit the forums .. and NOT just assume that male GM's are the know all and be all of information.

Answered above.

1 - not all females wanna jump in the sack. be it with a male or a female or with a whole troop of soldiers

Covered that myself.

2 - not all females wanna parade about in tight clothing or talk about how their love life is going - and if they do? .. sad ...

it's sad to want to talk about your love life? Huh.

3 - not all females are gonna respond to 'hey baby, wanna make my night?' or some other cheesy pickup line

Well, I'd imagine they'd respond, just not in the way the player wants.

4 - females HAVE interests just like males

Women have interests, that doesn't mean they are just like male interests -- males don't even have the same interests. Which is why, again, I said in my original response it depends on the same situation.

5 - females have jobs .. like males

Well, the job is going to be dictated by the scenario most likely. If he needs a scientist, she'll be a scientist, etc.

6 - females have responsibilities .. just like guys

Which in an NPC role is basically none -- NPC's should be there to further the plot, not carry it.

7 - some females ARE interested in sports ......

Really? Man -- I thought all those professional and amateur women's sports leagues were just guys in drag.

yes .. they are difficult to make up so that they are balanced .. but as a female .. i'm tired of seeing the little sexpot PC's [either male or female running them] .. having the PB's maxed out .. and powerful enough to kill you without trying .. who suddenly when a guy comes about ... suddenly becomes all fingers and ooey gooey giggle pots that suddenly have NO freakin brains.

Honestly, in 15+ years I've gaming I've never seen a player male or female playing a character male or female that's had the character turn into a brainless giggle pot under any circumstance -- what kinda game was that which has multiple people doing it?

[Killer Cyborg]

Honestly, in 15+ years I've gaming I've never seen a player male or female playing a character male or female that's had the character turn into a brainless giggle pot under any circumstance -- what kinda game was that which has multiple people doing it?

BBSW?

[Jesterzzn]

you upset cause i'm speaking from a females perspective .. on a subject that i've seen abused to the point of vomiting ... or because i'm female and DARED to post on something that was stated for MALE GM's only ... ?

deal with it

I'm sure it wasn't meant as an insult. He probably just figured all the women would be happily busy in the kitchen, and thus unable to post.

[Killer Cyborg]

Male GM's, I'm wondering how you go about making your female NPC's realistic. Any tricks of the trade that you use?

I think of a man....then I take away reason and accountability.

When'd we get those?


(and yes, I get the quote: As Good As It Gets)

[Nekira Sudacne]

My take?


One: I find it kind of sad that every time the issue of female NPC's comes up the issue of being a sexpot or not is dragged out.

I mean, why rag on the male player that has a female character/NPC hop in the sack with every male NPC, when no one rags on the male player playing the male PC that jumps in the sack with every female NPC? No one seems to bat an eye...

Two: I'm a female player/GM as many on this forum know. and over time i've come to realize something very basic. Sex is a powerful motivator for both male and female players. After years of gaming, i've found virtually no player, male or female, dosn't like a little romance and prehaps a little sex in games. And really, there's nothing wrong with it coming up in game. It's just another aspect to add to the fun. how much should be in? not enough to interfear with the game proper. Sidelines only. i've seen sexpots played by both males and females of both sexes for both. i've seen both be played as more realistic.

One can try blaming it on the sterotypical lonely male RPer all you want, but I know many gamers that break that mold and can still do the sex-orented player. also I know they can choose not to.

So why does it keep coming up? Maybe people just like sex. I mean, I can look around my own hometown and see it. Most people I know loose their virginities in highschool. and why do you think cheeting spouses come up so often on TV? here's a hint: art imitates life.

Is it good or is it bad? I don't know, that's for far wiser heads than me to decide. But what I do know is that sex in games is here to stay.



With that in mind, the real question comes how to deal with it responsibly. One, there is nothing wrong with discribing attractive female or male characters. Face it, everyone wants to look good and this very often translates into characters as well. Why do all movie stars look good? the same reason why people try to max out their PB's. People like looking good. RPG's are inherently about playing out a fantasy tale, and if you want your fantasy character to look good nothing wrong with that. You can go for rediculously high if you want, but don't do it to the point where it's all you do.


Secondly, and most importantly for gods sake, is to give them a real personality! likes, dislikes, turn ons and turn offs. You can play a sexy character without having them become sluts. How many great looking girls in nice outfits never let most people past third base or even get their in the first place? decide, before you start playing, what kinds of things will turn your character on or off, and stay in character, sticking to that. Doing this upfront could help keep some levels of sanity to the games.

Next of all, don't get cheesy. This is hard to define sinse it varys from group to group, but one shouldn't make other players feel uncomftable at any point. if your in a sterotypical pervert group that loooooves going into details *shrugs* that's your thing. if you have someone, even one person who only likes a little romance than getting on with things, you should try to do that. It's a touchy topic, and for the sake of the game you should err on the side of caution.

Most of all, try to put some ordinary NPC's in there. for both. People who are average looking and have average personalities for their given roll. This might seem minor, but it can help put a spash of water and keep everyone grounded in reality. I've found it helps more often than one would think. In my nightbane game, I have a genious kid that has a habbit of doing something crazy every now and then, providing comic releif and reminding everyone that life goes on. a splash of realioty(or a slap in the face) can keep everyone comftable.

Last but not least is the subject of femme fatals/slutty seductresses. These have long been classical character archtypes. Why? because catching guys with their pants down has, is, in fact, an effective tactic. These can be very hard to play properly. I've tried my own hand and generally think I succeeded well, but there has to be more too it, a deeper character.

All in all there's nothing wrong with wanting to play a sexy character, male or female, it's just that you have to remember to have balance to the character and to not go further than the ENTIRE group is comftable with.

And that's mostly my thoughts on the subject of Sex in games. should it exsist? absolutely. Just remember there's a lot more to the game and the characters than just that.

[Talavar]

Thanks to all of you who have contributed. I suppose I'm looking more along the lines the thought processes different sexes use to get to goals.


For example, me being a male, I understand that men can be quite independent in wanting to accomplish something. We want to feel that we've done it on our own and that we can crow about it. We don't want help unless we ask for it, but when we ask, we really do need and want it. There's a great deal of pride in men, for better or worse and we often let our pride dictate our actions. We are typically aggressive in what we want and some of us definitely lack a sense of tact:)

As for women, they still remain somewhat of a mystery to me. We might share the same goals but the methods employed are very different. Anyone care to share how they make the methods of female NPC's different than those of men?

I think there's far more difference between individuals of either gender than between men & women as groups. There are very proud women who will want to do something without help; there are men who won't care if someone helps them. There are aggressive women and tactless women too. Generalizing should be avoided, its a quick path down to stereotype-town.

[DhAkael]

This thread is now officialy borring.
Grow up.

[Killer Cyborg]

I want my female NPC's to believable and real. So far, they are coming off as either information dumps or over dramatic. It's hard to find the right balance of emotion and logic to portray a female correctly from a male point of view.

You don't have that problem with male characters?

[Rallan]

My take?


One: I find it kind of sad that every time the issue of female NPC's comes up the issue of being a sexpot or not is dragged out.

I mean, why rag on the male player that has a female character/NPC hop in the sack with every male NPC, when no one rags on the male player playing the male PC that jumps in the sack with every female NPC? No one seems to bat an eye...

Or you can be a hypocrite like me. The last character I played tried to jump in the sack with pretty much every NPC (pro tip: picking up Black Furies in a World of Darkness campaign when you're a Son of Ether is harder than you'd think), yet I still roll my eyes at the way gender and sexuality are normally handled by gaming groups

[Rallan]

I have a very simple policy to handle gender relationships in game. Male players play male characters and female players play female characters. That's it. Otherwise it usually just leads to all the bad kinds of drama.

There is a time and place for romance. It's called college.

I absolutely positively under no circumstances RP any romantic PC scenario's whatsoever. It's un-necessary, un-interesting, and most of the time guaranteed to make at least one person uncomfortable (namely me).

I'm running an action, suspence, horror, sci-fi, or space opera game... not a harlequin romance game.

Hail Xenu!

You're missing out. Romantic subplots, especially the badly thought out romantic subplots with unexpected complications, can add a lot if the campaign is very character-driven. They're a cheap and easy way to create a lot of character development and drama, and are an endless source of plothooks as long as you're playing it a bit more realistic than the Fear Of Girls model ("I wanna have sex with her!" "Okay... gimme a roll").

[Shorty Lickens]

I was gonna post a while ago, but I was enjoying the gender debate that popped up (which almost always happens here).

I read an article from a novelist some time ago that said: When creating a character, the last thing you should pick is the name. By picking the name first you already have subconscious, preconceived notions about that persons traits and characteristics and even looks. You should decide on all that stuff beforehand and then pick a name at the end which you think fits the character.

I use that article a lot as a GM when designing PC's and NPC's of importance, and I offer it to players as well (when we roll up new PC's).

I would offer the following suggestion to GM's and players:
Sex should be the second to last thing you decide on, right before the name.
Like others have said, make them a person first, complete with family and personality and character flaws. The Rifts Adventure Guide and the Ultimate Edition have a little more info on fleshing out characters than the Main Book had.
When you have all this figured out the desired gender may be a little more obvious or you could even roll randomly. Unless their gender and relationship to other characters is a key plot element, it shouldn't matter.
And it shouldn't be a deciding factor during character generation either.

[Rallan]

I have a very simple policy to handle gender relationships in game. Male players play male characters and female players play female characters. That's it. Otherwise it usually just leads to all the bad kinds of drama.

There is a time and place for romance. It's called college.

I absolutely positively under no circumstances RP any romantic PC scenario's whatsoever. It's un-necessary, un-interesting, and most of the time guaranteed to make at least one person uncomfortable (namely me).

I'm running an action, suspence, horror, sci-fi, or space opera game... not a harlequin romance game.

Hail Xenu!

You're missing out. Romantic subplots, especially the badly thought out romantic subplots with unexpected complications, can add a lot if the campaign is very character-driven. They're a cheap and easy way to create a lot of character development and drama, and are an endless source of plothooks as long as you're playing it a bit more realistic than the Fear Of Girls model ("I wanna have sex with her!" "Okay... gimme a roll").

And before you think Rallan means detailing that icky sex thing, it's also pillow talk and the like. Afterglow conversations and such.

Yeah detailing the icky sex thing can get a bit weird and freaky, especially at a tabletop session. Nothing weirds everyone out like two fat bearded guys in Gandalf t-shirts describing a passionate lesbian bondage scene

[Rallan]

I have a very simple policy to handle gender relationships in game. Male players play male characters and female players play female characters. That's it. Otherwise it usually just leads to all the bad kinds of drama.

There is a time and place for romance. It's called college.

I absolutely positively under no circumstances RP any romantic PC scenario's whatsoever. It's un-necessary, un-interesting, and most of the time guaranteed to make at least one person uncomfortable (namely me).

I'm running an action, suspence, horror, sci-fi, or space opera game... not a harlequin romance game.

Hail Xenu!

You're missing out. Romantic subplots, especially the badly thought out romantic subplots with unexpected complications, can add a lot if the campaign is very character-driven. They're a cheap and easy way to create a lot of character development and drama, and are an endless source of plothooks as long as you're playing it a bit more realistic than the Fear Of Girls model ("I wanna have sex with her!" "Okay... gimme a roll").

And before you think Rallan means detailing that icky sex thing, it's also pillow talk and the like. Afterglow conversations and such.

Yeah detailing the icky sex thing can get a bit weird and freaky, especially at a tabletop session. Nothing weirds everyone out like two fat bearded guys in Gandalf t-shirts describing a passionate lesbian bondage scene

I've never been there and I've got the heebie jeebies now. Thank's Rallan.

If you haven't already seen it, check out Fear Of Girls on YouTube. Among other things, it has some fine examples of how not to run romantic subplots in RPGs

[DocS]

Well, for starters...

There is very little sex in my games. That little there is, happens 'off screen' as it were. I'm just not comfy role-playing a seduction with any seriousness with my friend Al.

As for *how* to play women, my NPC's are not terribly complex, male or female. Most are noted in one or two defining traits that I stick to. In most cases, this means that gender is largely irrelevant, the female 'humorless jerk' and the male 'humorless jerk' are very similar. I'm ok with a Rifts world where MD weapons and the utter need for survival has pretty much obliterated defined gender roles.

The only time I had NPC's where gender was really important was when the party came to a cabin which was spotlessly clean, the woman cooked and cleaned while the man smoked a pipe and called everyone 'sport'. That's how The Party met Bob and Mary Stepford, and yes, Bob and Mary were robots.

[BillionSix]

ballance out the 'damsel in this dress' with 'Kick-butt heroine'.

Um... I am curious.

Is "damsel in this dress" a deliberate pun?

Brian

[Mech-Viper Prime]

I never had a problem with players respecting female npcs, then again i never played with total geeks either and if any female was played that way, was getting paid by the players for her services, and that was normally off screen.

[shiiv-a]

BillionSix ........ Dhak was having a pun actually. he's seen more than one female char wearing a dress that forgets they ARE wearing one .. and when reminded go 'oh .. .. teehee .. '

*shrugs* ...

Lost Waif ....... sadly someone had to be the one to call the situation a black kettle. it was humourous actually to see how many were DENYING it being a black kettle tho ...

*shrugs*

you can usually count on me to stir up and muddy the waters in some manner. i enjoy everyones true colors coming into play. its very informative and lets me see how i'm not really that wrong about some people.

[Marrowlight]

BillionSix ........ Dhak was having a pun actually. he's seen more than one female char wearing a dress that forgets they ARE wearing one .. and when reminded go 'oh .. .. teehee .. '

*shrugs* ...

Lost Waif ....... sadly someone had to be the one to call the situation a black kettle. it was humourous actually to see how many were DENYING it being a black kettle tho ...

*shrugs*

you can usually count on me to stir up and muddy the waters in some manner. i enjoy everyones true colors coming into play. its very informative and lets me see how i'm not really that wrong about some people.

[Marrowlight]

take a look at your mother, girlfriend and sister ad see how they act. base the npcs off of that, normal freakin women, not killer sex goddsses.

for some of the folks around here, that is the worst advice ever.

[batlchip]

It shouldn't matter if the person playing a character is male or female.I find that playing a female character like their part of my family tends to help

[Jesterzzn]

Why do girls always want us to pick up a living bug/arachnid and toss it outside? I don't get why they don't prefer to hear the satisfying WHUMP of a large shoe coming down and freeing said creeper from this mortal coil.

For some reason, my fiancee's apartment is always producing fairly good sized, scary lookin' spiders. When she sees one, she'll race across the room, point at it and scream, "KILL IT! KILL IT!!!" She'd call me a girl if I took it outside...but she won't kill them herself. And its hard too, cause I'm just as scared of the damn things as she is!

She has trained you well.

[Marrowlight]

Actually, I discovered the absolute best spider killer of all time. Never fails and always produces excellent results.

RAID Hornet & Wasp Spray. I use it indoors, outdoors....wherever. Huntsman Spiders? Hose em' down and they start going into conniptions but never charge at you. Plus, it's got a 20ft range so you can still act like a big man even though deep inside you're screaming like a schoolgirl. As for thoughts of the smell, I find it smells like victory. Short of spraying the bugs down with sulphuric acid, this stuff has no rival.

RAID Ant & Roach Spray works as a replacement too...just need more of it.

Watching a large spider die in the throes of an NBC-style attack is actually quite satisfying. Especially for an arachnophobe.

I despise mosquitoes, so I appreciate spiders.

[Jesterzzn]

Actually, I discovered the absolute best spider killer of all time. Never fails and always produces excellent results.

RAID Hornet & Wasp Spray. I use it indoors, outdoors....wherever. Huntsman Spiders? Hose em' down and they start going into conniptions but never charge at you. Plus, it's got a 20ft range so you can still act like a big man even though deep inside you're screaming like a schoolgirl. As for thoughts of the smell, I find it smells like victory. Short of spraying the bugs down with sulphuric acid, this stuff has no rival.

RAID Ant & Roach Spray works as a replacement too...just need more of it.

Watching a large spider die in the throes of an NBC-style attack is actually quite satisfying. Especially for an arachnophobe.

I despise mosquitoes, so I appreciate spiders.

I hate both, so hurray for Birds and Lizards. But birds are nasty little creatures, so hurray for cats! And another word for cat is...

Yea, this topic had it comin.

[Marrowlight]

Actually, I discovered the absolute best spider killer of all time. Never fails and always produces excellent results.

RAID Hornet & Wasp Spray. I use it indoors, outdoors....wherever. Huntsman Spiders? Hose em' down and they start going into conniptions but never charge at you. Plus, it's got a 20ft range so you can still act like a big man even though deep inside you're screaming like a schoolgirl. As for thoughts of the smell, I find it smells like victory. Short of spraying the bugs down with sulphuric acid, this stuff has no rival.

RAID Ant & Roach Spray works as a replacement too...just need more of it.

Watching a large spider die in the throes of an NBC-style attack is actually quite satisfying. Especially for an arachnophobe.

I despise mosquitoes, so I appreciate spiders.

I hate both, so hurray for Birds and Lizards. But birds are nasty little creatures, so hurray for cats! And another word for cat is...

Yea, this topic had it comin.

Are you implying women eat spiders and mosquitoes?

[Jesterzzn]

Actually, I discovered the absolute best spider killer of all time. Never fails and always produces excellent results.

RAID Hornet & Wasp Spray. I use it indoors, outdoors....wherever. Huntsman Spiders? Hose em' down and they start going into conniptions but never charge at you. Plus, it's got a 20ft range so you can still act like a big man even though deep inside you're screaming like a schoolgirl. As for thoughts of the smell, I find it smells like victory. Short of spraying the bugs down with sulphuric acid, this stuff has no rival.

RAID Ant & Roach Spray works as a replacement too...just need more of it.

Watching a large spider die in the throes of an NBC-style attack is actually quite satisfying. Especially for an arachnophobe.

I despise mosquitoes, so I appreciate spiders.

I hate both, so hurray for Birds and Lizards. But birds are nasty little creatures, so hurray for cats! And another word for cat is...

Yea, this topic had it comin.

Are you implying women eat spiders and mosquitoes?

No, I'm implying that Al is another word for cat.

[batlchip]

An NBC attack on a spider?Isn't that against the Geneva convention

[cyber-yukongil v2.5]

Actually, I discovered the absolute best spider killer of all time. Never fails and always produces excellent results.

RAID Hornet & Wasp Spray. I use it indoors, outdoors....wherever. Huntsman Spiders? Hose em' down and they start going into conniptions but never charge at you. Plus, it's got a 20ft range so you can still act like a big man even though deep inside you're screaming like a schoolgirl. As for thoughts of the smell, I find it smells like victory. Short of spraying the bugs down with sulphuric acid, this stuff has no rival.

RAID Ant & Roach Spray works as a replacement too...just need more of it.

Watching a large spider die in the throes of an NBC-style attack is actually quite satisfying. Especially for an arachnophobe.

That is the single greatest thing I have ever read.

Today

Though I feel ya Al on the arachnophobia, I keep trained dogs near me at all times to deal with bugs. Though I have found my female dogs, do not hunt them with the gusto or skill that my manly dogs do or did, I miss Bud

[Marrowlight]

Cyber is out to be in everyone's sig lines.

[Kelorin]

Might I suggest a book that can probably be tracked down at your local Chapters, entitled Dynamic Characters, author: Nancy Kress. The book is mainly a reference book for would be fiction writers, but can be applied to gaming to help make more believable three dimensional NPC's of BOTH genders.

[Marrowlight]

Cyber is out to be in everyone's sig lines.

What life is complete without cyber?

Damn, missed this till now -- so tempted to sig it.

[Marrowlight]

Cyber is out to be in everyone's sig lines.

What life is complete without cyber?

Damn, missed this till now -- so tempted to sig it.

Do it....you know you want to.

It's ok, no one will tell on you....

Jester would. It's how he rolls.

[cyber-yukongil v2.5]

Cyber is out to be in everyone's sig lines.

What life is complete without cyber?

Not Cherico's...

SIGGED!!