Noble Land Divisions.

GA · Unread post by GA » Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:37 am

I was reading one of Kuseru's stickies about GM Tools- Medieval Demographics Made Easy (which had some really good information by the way) when I started wondering abut titles of the townships. For instance are townships ruled by Barons, Counties by Viscounts (or Earls/Counts), Provinces by Earls and Major Cities/Districts by Princes and Dukes? I did some research on the questionable Wiki and it seems to be that way but not really. How would this apply if trying to create and carve out your own kingdoms in an existing world or your own? Or more importantly (since in my own world i can do what I damn well please) how did it play out in ancient Britain?

If going by the every township has at least a baron route, will they all have castles (or forts, keeps)? And will the barons be subject only to the King or will he owe his loyalty to a Count, Earl or Duke before the King?

And don't go Holy Roman Empire on me I don't need that kind of headache.

asajosh · Unread post by **asajosh** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:01 pm

IIRC, in medieval europe (generally) Barons reported to a Count, and the Count reports to the King.

And as to every Baron having a fortress, it would depend largly on the wealth of the Barony.

Guest · Unread post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:02 pm

There isn't a relationship like you're describing.

However, that being said, when a noble does rule a region, they are generally known as the following:
Knight = Fee
Baronet = Baronetcy
Baron = Barony
Viscount = Viscounty
Count/Earl = County*
Marquis = March
Duke = Duchy
Prince = variable; including Principality, Princedom, Grand Duchy, among others
King = Kingdom
Emperor = Empire
*I won't get in to the German system.

As far as sub-infeudation (that is, what rank of noble is sworn to which other rank of noble), there is no standard.

asajosh · Unread post by **asajosh** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:24 pm

heh, seems i missed a few layers

Guest · Unread post by **Guest** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:32 pm

asajosh wrote:heh, seems i missed a few layers

That's why there's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_ranks (incomplete though it is).

GA · Unread post by GA » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:12 am

Ok I did some searches on viscounty to see what kind of land area it would encompass and all I got was an area controlled by a viscount. Well that doesn;t help much. Are viscounties subdivisions of counties? Are they smaller counties. Some historical domains might help in this context. Also how large is a barony...or rather than how large since that varies just as counties do, what is the political size of a barony. Is it a town, a village a city a county a province?

The only political distinctions I seem to have a handle on are Earls who were essentially governors and ruled a Shire. They appointed shire reeves (hence the later Sheriffs) to enforce laws in their areas. I think later viscounts became synonymous with Sheriffs which would make viscounts i suppose more an administrative title within an Earls domain...I guess.

Barons seem to control some small area or manor but besides this i have no idea what else. Their authority doesn't seem to go even over a town level and they seem similar to knights.