What can be used to stop a dragon?

asajosh · Unread post by **asajosh** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:32 pm

I have a player using a Night Stalker dragon hatchling and I need a way to neutralize his abilities of teleportation and turn into mist. Preferably a trap of some kind that he can walk into while in the shape of a human. Im drawing a total blank on the teleportation.... it works thru force fields and magical barriers right? Thanks!

asajosh · Unread post by **asajosh** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:44 pm

Josh Hilden wrote:nuke

I suppose I should have specified that I'd like to minimize collateral damage

Nekira Sudacne · Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:40 pm

asajosh wrote:I have a player using a Night Stalker dragon hatchling and I need a way to neutralize his abilities of teleportation and turn into mist. Preferably a trap of some kind that he can walk into while in the shape of a human. Im drawing a total blank on the teleportation.... it works thru force fields and magical barriers right? Thanks!

There is a spell called Dimensional Barrier that will specifically take a zone and make all teleportaion into and out of that zone inpossible by any means.

asajosh · Unread post by **asajosh** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:33 am

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
asajosh wrote:I have a player using a Night Stalker dragon hatchling and I need a way to neutralize his abilities of teleportation and turn into mist. Preferably a trap of some kind that he can walk into while in the shape of a human. Im drawing a total blank on the teleportation.... it works thru force fields and magical barriers right? Thanks!

There is a spell called Dimensional Barrier that will specifically take a zone and make all teleportaion into and out of that zone inpossible by any means.

Killer, I look it up now.
Does it have circle version to cover a large space?

EDIT: Nekira, your my hero

verdilak · Unread post by **verdilak** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:54 am

You could make a circle/ritual version of it. And complete it with a permanent ward

t0m · Unread post by **t0m** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:10 am

mystic energy drain wards might be of some help also, if you can get him trapped within their radius of effect.

verdilak · Unread post by **verdilak** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:35 am

Well, also think about anti-magic cloud. Or when he tries to teleport, there should a percentage, when he fails, have his teleport inside the Library of Bletherad. No magic can be cast insid ethere and the dragon will soon take damage direct to HP if he stays there long enough. The whole library is like an anti-magic cloud and mystic energy drain all wrapped in one. Or have his teleported when he fails the roll to some underground chamber similar to the Library of Bletherad, and needs to have his group member help him out. Of course, he will be nearly dead, but maybe that will make him think before trying to teleport, he will be afraid of loosing the roll and go someone even worse the next time.

DhAkael · Unread post by **DhAkael** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:53 am

verdilak wrote:Well, also think about anti-magic cloud. Or when he tries to teleport, there should a percentage, when he fails, have his teleport inside the Library of Bletherad. No magic can be cast insid ethere and the dragon will soon take damage direct to HP if he stays there long enough. The whole library is like an anti-magic cloud and mystic energy drain all wrapped in one. Or have his teleported when he fails the roll to some underground chamber similar to the Library of Bletherad, and needs to have his group member help him out. Of course, he will be nearly dead, but maybe that will make him think before trying to teleport, he will be afraid of loosing the roll and go someone even worse the next time.

Yeah..an dthe 2nd edition versions of 'Anti Magic Cloud' are really nasty now.
Heck, they even can cancel out "natural" abilities (percentage chance).
Only problem is, it IS a beast of a spell for PPE expenditure.

drewkitty ~..~ · Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:14 pm

asajosh wrote:
Nekira Sudacne wrote:
There is a spell called Dimensional Barrier that will specifically take a zone and make all teleportaion into and out of that zone inpossible by any means.

Killer, I look it up now.
Does it have circle version to cover a large space?

EDIT: Nekira, your my hero

If you are the gm you can make it cover as large a space as you want. Otherwise look up the spell megaversal spell creation rules in through the glass darkly, under spell varients.

There is the aspect of the Dimin Barrior spell that it only works on D-Tela-Porting. Doesn't block normal T-Porting. That part NS got incorrect.

There is the spell Deep Freeze, in LoB, which would stop the dragon from doing anything for a short time.

The only barrior that might be arguablily to stop a t-port into an area woulf be sanctum. Its not in the text, but the text has language that could be taken to hint at this, so I use the word arguablily.

Ahulane · Unread post by **Ahulane** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:31 am

Almost Human from one of the rifters with the new shifter varients...renders him completely human for the duration (24 hrs / level). Could have him run around like that for a while and see how he likes it, hmmm, he could fight one of the new LLW varients from ultimate...LLR I think and have the caster continually teleport with him so he can't get away. Could always have him get struck by some really potent hallucinogen mixed with a sedative...hard to teleport around when your seeing crazy **** all over the place and your all sluggish from the drugs...or at least I would think that would inhibit your ability since your not able to think clearly and your 1/2 asleep...may make an error in judgement and teleport into a wall or something. Teleport is by far the hardest thing to eliminate...he could stumble into a magic circle after failing a perception check and it renders him unable to teleport while he's inside it.

kamikazzijoe · Unread post by **kamikazzijoe** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:59 pm

bio manipulation paralysis.

Talavar · Unread post by **Talavar** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:11 pm

Ed3 gives relatively low level spells like magic net & carpet of adhesion way too much ability.

The spell Almost Human didn't even deserve to be in the Rifter, it's just awful. Please, don't use it.

Dragon teleportation is flawless, by the way - the percentage they get is to see whether they initiate it or not; if the roll is successful, they always go where they meant to, with no chance of teleporting into walls, or random locations, and if the roll isn't successful, they just don't teleport. Time Maelstrom will still screw it up, but the dragon can't just screw it up on his/her own.

Mystic/energy drain won't stop a dragon teleporting or shapeshifting - neither of those require the expenditure of PPE or anything, after all.

I don't even think biomanipulation: paralysis would stop a dragon's teleportation ability.

finn69 · Unread post by **finn69** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:03 pm

the spell universal balance from spirit west. makes em sdc and vulnerable to sdc weapons like 50 cal machine gun fire full melee burts is 7d6 X 50 or something like that. also the spell little force (same book same section) reflect any attack made against the caster back at whoever sent that attack. house of glass federation of magic (first printing) similar effect.

ill think of more later.

jade von delioch · Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:52 pm

Electricity/lightning. The mist is made of water which can still act as a conduit as long as there is ground close by... ouch

as to the teleport: adopt a ramdom table or something to see if the teleport worked well, much like they have for D&D. if you /they roll bad enough they could end up half buried in the ground or a mountain.

oni no won · Unread post by **oni no won** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Dragon lance!

....wait, wrong setting...

then again, this is RIFTS!

Talavar · Unread post by **Talavar** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:42 pm

sawg138 wrote:Just curious where you got that interpretation. I've always seen it played the teleport always goes off, but the roll is to see whether or not the teleporter is on target.

Well, I suppose I got it from the rules. According to Rifts 2nd Edition, RUE, Dragons & Gods, and Conversion book 1, the percentage associated with a dragon's ability to teleport does not determine the accuracy of the dragon's teleport, but whether it occurs at all. If the roll is failed, the dragon goes nowhere; if the roll is successful, the dragon goes where it intended.

Now, I would rule that a dragon would either need to see where it was going, or have a really good idea, but if those factors weren't met I would rule that the teleport just won't work at all - none of this teleporting into solid rock garbage.

Talavar · Unread post by **Talavar** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:01 am

sawg138 wrote:Mind giving a page for that?

Well, in Dragons & Gods, it's described on page 12; in RUE it's described in the natural abilities of the Cat's Eye dragon hatchling - all the other species refer back to this first description - on page 159; in Rifts 2nd edition it's in the natural abilities of the Great Horned Dragon hatchling, same deal as the Cat's Eye hatchling, on page 100.

finn69 · Unread post by **finn69** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:34 pm

there are also several spells just in the original rifts main book that will cloud a beings mind make them lose attacks and put minuses on any skill attempted the majority of them are 2 action to cast spells like luck curse but look around and puruse the spells listed. you might surprise yourself and find a new way to use an old spell that you otherwise thought was useless.

Ahulane · Unread post by **Ahulane** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:20 am

The spell Almost Human didn't even deserve to be in the Rifter, it's just awful. Please, don't use it.

Why is it awful? Its only moderatly munchkin but its still limited since its what 12th level + and has a huge PPE cost. Or are you saying its awful because if you fail the save your pretty much done for? Remember if its used on a dragon you'd better have a really high spell strength because he's most likely going to resist...

You always have agony though..."can't take any action for the duration of the spell" duration is 1 minute...have fun

Talavar · Unread post by **Talavar** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:20 pm

Ahulane wrote:
The spell Almost Human didn't even deserve to be in the Rifter, it's just awful. Please, don't use it.

Why is it awful? Its only moderatly munchkin but its still limited since its what 12th level + and has a huge PPE cost. Or are you saying its awful because if you fail the save your pretty much done for? Remember if its used on a dragon you'd better have a really high spell strength because he's most likely going to resist...

You always have agony though..."can't take any action for the duration of the spell" duration is 1 minute...have fun

It's awful because I find it incredibly stupid, right up there with super-mutant capybaras. I mean, all True Atlanteans are immune to physical transformations, but this spell can turn an ancient dragon or alien intelligence or god into a human, even temporarily? Stupid.

Plus, if I'm remembering correctly, if the human form "dies" they go right back to normal. The instant anything magical or supernatural gets hit with this spell, they would just go, "hmm, I got that stupid spell from the Rifter cast on me," and then snap their own necks to get their awesome natural abilities back.

Ahulane · Unread post by **Ahulane** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:19 am

It's awful because I find it incredibly stupid, right up there with super-mutant capybaras. I mean, all True Atlanteans are immune to physical transformations, but this spell can turn an ancient dragon or alien intelligence or god into a human, even temporarily? Stupid.

Maybe because its actually an illusion and not a transformation spell...the illusion just has extra spells tacked on to it that make it more useful than normal...seriously though...try casting that on Zeus and see how horribly you fail because he's got a +10 to whatever to save, laughs in your face...and erases you from existance because you annoy him...

Magic sucks because if your a dragon, god, AI, demi-god, godling or anything above 5th level...your going to have a good save vs. magic usually...

Plus, if I'm remembering correctly, if the human form "dies" they go right back to normal. The instant anything magical or supernatural gets hit with this spell, they would just go, "hmm, I got that stupid spell from the Rifter cast on me," and then snap their own necks to get their awesome natural abilities back.

They'd have to have Lore: Magic and Principles of Magic or have encountered or read the spell details from a tome to know that killing themselves would break the illusion...soooo nice try...they'd have to rely on their already awsome + to save before they commit suicide...but if they failed the person who cast it is probably going to have some other means of restraint ready to hold him at bay...ball gag, drugs, rope, manacles, etc...

So if the caster of the spell was really really really lucky when casting the spell on a dragon and it failed it save...then ya...the dragon is done for...but the dragon saves...well...bye bye caster...

Talavar · Unread post by **Talavar** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:26 pm

Ahulane wrote:Maybe because its actually an illusion and not a transformation spell...the illusion just has extra spells tacked on to it that make it more useful than normal...seriously though...try casting that on Zeus and see how horribly you fail because he's got a +10 to whatever to save, laughs in your face...and erases you from existance because you annoy him...

Magic sucks because if your a dragon, god, AI, demi-god, godling or anything above 5th level...your going to have a good save vs. magic usually...

They'd have to have Lore: Magic and Principles of Magic or have encountered or read the spell details from a tome to know that killing themselves would break the illusion...soooo nice try...they'd have to rely on their already awsome + to save before they commit suicide...but if they failed the person who cast it is probably going to have some other means of restraint ready to hold him at bay...ball gag, drugs, rope, manacles, etc...

So if the caster of the spell was really really really lucky when casting the spell on a dragon and it failed it save...then ya...the dragon is done for...but the dragon saves...well...bye bye caster...

Even gods can roll ones and twos, so it could effect them. As to it being a "nice try" for a god or adult dragon to know how this spell works - a lot of adult dragons & gods know all spells of levels 1-12, or more, so I think they'll know how it works. Beyond that, they almost all have lore: magic at the least, so I'd say it would be pretty common for a being like this to know how to defeat the spell.

But, you spend most of the time pointing out the spell's weaknesses; I don't think it's stupid because it's a super-good munchkin spell, I think it's stupid because it's a dumb concept.

Borast · Unread post by **Borast** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 11:04 pm

Remember the dragon can only make one attempt per minute(?), can only attempt (successful or no) "X" number of times a day, and there is a percentage the teleport fails.

The metamorphosis is also limited by duration.

Add the fact that a simple flash-bang would likely stun it automatically, since they are EXTREMELY sensitive to bright light...

A million candle-power flashlight would probably have it blind and twitching on the floor until it could escape, or the flashlight was extinguished.

Ahulane · Unread post by **Ahulane** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:10 am

Even gods can roll ones and twos, so it could effect them. As to it being a "nice try" for a god or adult dragon to know how this spell works - a lot of adult dragons & gods know all spells of levels 1-12, or more, so I think they'll know how it works. Beyond that, they almost all have lore: magic at the least, so I'd say it would be pretty common for a being like this to know how to defeat the spell.

But, you spend most of the time pointing out the spell's weaknesses; I don't think it's stupid because it's a super-good munchkin spell, I think it's stupid because it's a dumb concept.

True they can, but still they have wicked good base bonuses to save so they still stand a better than 50% chance of going shrugging off the spell and squishing your head.

Well I point out the flaws because it really only has a few good points, good duration @ 24 hrs/level and a good way to nutralize a fairly powerful supernatural creature. I mean, you'd have to be lucky just to have this spell and even more lucky to be able to cast it and even luckier to have it work on the first use...it was merely a suggestion since it pretty much covers all the bases that the OP was looking for.

Ya you make a good point about their spell knowledge...I forgot that dragons are uber munchy and have crap loads of innate spell knowledge.

Most of the best disabling spells have very little PPE cost and saves that either only reduce the duration or are based on dodge. Even blinding flash is better than many because it has a -1 sv for 3PPE.

Personally though I guess I'd use Agony over anything since its an instant win spell if your opponent ever fails his save...

Crazy Lou · Unread post by **Crazy Lou** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:34 pm

Borast wrote:Remember the dragon can only make one attempt per minute(?), can only attempt (successful or no) "X" number of times a day, and there is a percentage the teleport fails.

The metamorphosis is also limited by duration.

Add the fact that a simple flash-bang would likely stun it automatically, since they are EXTREMELY sensitive to bright light...

A million candle-power flashlight would probably have it blind and twitching on the floor until it could escape, or the flashlight was extinguished.

since when are dragons super sensitive to light to the point they're immobilized by brightness?

asajosh · Unread post by **asajosh** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:19 pm

Crazy Lou wrote:
Borast wrote:Remember the dragon can only make one attempt per minute(?), can only attempt (successful or no) "X" number of times a day, and there is a percentage the teleport fails.

The metamorphosis is also limited by duration.

Add the fact that a simple flash-bang would likely stun it automatically, since they are EXTREMELY sensitive to bright light...

A million candle-power flashlight would probably have it blind and twitching on the floor until it could escape, or the flashlight was extinguished.

since when are dragons super sensitive to light to the point they're immobilized by brightness?

Its a Night Stalker dragon hatchling, as posted in post 1

Exiled_one · Unread post by **Exiled_one** » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:52 pm

sawg138 wrote:
Ubistvo wrote:Dessicate the Supernatural

May not kill him in one shot, but he'll think twice about fooling around next time.

Or really **** him off.

Not even that, The Dragon just laughs, not being affected because it is a Creature of Magic not Supernatural

(And even the spell description specifically excludes them from its effect)

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