M.D.Cish?

[Dustin Fireblade]

There's a number of possible ways you can deal with it. The most simple is just to convert everything to SDC (yes you may have to adjust the SDC down - it mentions this in the 1st Conversion Book pg 64).

I had a few problems with it as well, for me it's the fact of vehicle weapons doing so little damage. I solved that by simply upping their damage and reducing what infantry weapons can do to vehicles. Been doing that for - maybe 10 years or so now and it works fine for my group.

Now if you simply dislike it because it's "too common" well to be honest thats in how you GM. It's only as common as you let it.

My next game I'm not using MDC at all, and only SDC for inanimate objects. Basically armor will have a damage reduction.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Rift has removed half of the skills from an intelligent player's picks (why take wrestling i'm not getting that close).

Ok, so what does a intelligent player pick, skill wise?

I don't think it's really fair to compare modern weapons technology to a game's weapons technology. Sure I like realism, but using real world weapons as a basis will quickly take a lot of fun out of the game - either by getting your character's killed as fast as you make them or you killing the bad guys all too easy.

[Dustin Fireblade]

I'd pick prowel (big crazy instant death monsters out there), Gymnastic's+acrobatics (in a world of M.D.C. i don't need anything but agility and PP) Running (getting away from scary things), Boxing (extra attack) and some guns. Those physical skills are the only one's I could see player's logicaly choose. Why would you learn to lift weights and build your body when a single shot or scratch from a M.D.C. thing would just drop you.

And those would be great picks if you are playing a gladiator. It really depends on the character you want to play but skills like Land Navigation, Wilderness Survival, First Aid/Paramedic/Field Surgery, Demon & Monster Lore, mechanical skills are all a lot more popular than what you may think.

Again, the game is what you make of it. If you have RUE, take a look at pages 356 to 358 as it says this far better than what I can.

I'm not sure what you mean by a tank not meaning something though. As much as I dislike the minimal damage their weapons typically do, especially vs other vehicles, I've had Iron Hammer tanks smash players in just a few melee's (a few area effect round, gatling laser nails someone, etc. Didn't take too long at all when you factor in multiple gunners) and only suffer minimal damage in return.

[Killer Cyborg]

Lets say I am a smart player, who doesn't min/max who is trying their damnnest to make a strong P.C/ but still have a logcial choice about it.

I'd pick prowl (big crazy instant death monsters out there), Gymnastic's+acrobatics (in a world of M.D.C. i don't need anything but agility and PP) Running (getting away from scary things), Boxing (extra attack) and some guns. Those physical skills are the only one's I could see player's logicaly choose. Why would you learn to lift weights and build your body when a single shot or scratch from a M.D.C. thing would just drop you.

Because every bit counts. That extra muscle can allow you to carry more MDC armor and weapons, to use heavier weapons than you'd otherwise be able to, and on a good day it might just let you break free from some demon's grasp.
And, of course, because some people just like to lift weights and body-build.

As for wrestling, it's one of the few unarmed combat skills that you can use on somebody in EBA. You might not be able to hurt them if you don't have MDC weapons, but you can pin them and keep them from hurting you.

I'm also not saying things should be simple and weak, I'm running a war torn post apoc game (mix between after the bomb and system fail) and things die quickly, and fights are tough. Its just that they are logicaly tough, Pc's can take cover with out worring the baddies gun's will rip it open. And they can undress and possably surive a shot or two so they actully wash their armor. I don't want pure real world things I just wish a tank would mean something in Rifts.

My advice is that you revise your vision of Rifts Earth.
Despite the over-emphasizing of MDC monsters, weapons, and gear, SDC is still the norm for most of the planet. Your PCs should be able to undress, wash their armor, and even hike for a day or more in the wilderness without an MDC demon popping up to eat them.
There are people on Rifts Earth that live their entire lives without MDC capabilities (granted, sometimes that's what kills them in the end, but often it takes decades for that to happen).
Stick with the rules, but lower the power expectations you have, both for PCs and their enemies.
You want the PCs to be able to survive a shot or two? Have them ambushed when their pants are down, by low-tech bandits with SDC weapons. Or by SDC predators.
Don't just throw powerful MDC enemies at them, then complain that all they encounter are powerful enemies.

But I don't expect you to listen to the above, so I'll also suggest you do what a lot of other people have done:
Switch the MDC:SDC ratio to 10:1 instead of 100:1

[Killer Cyborg]

I don't find it hard to belive in MDC I find it hard to belive how commonplace it is in the "core" rifts books, or in a lot of palladium games. I would gladly have MDC if it was rare like in Robotech (first three books). I know the argument of make it rare stands out, but really how? Its not only the demon's that have it, the rifts equivilant to Walmart is brimming with mdc.

There is no Rifts equivilant of Wal-Mart.

Many stores in major cities do have MDC gear, but there's not telling how often they actually sell the stuff.
Check out the prices on average mega-gear; most people aren't going to be able to afford it.
Not much, at least.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Lets face it, MDC equipment is more common than cars.

I disagree. Take a look at the old Sourcebook 1, page 55. The section of "robot and armor repair" to be specific. Less than a dozen places exist on the North American continent that can repair MD, which by extension likely sell it as well.

Other than adding the Colorado Baronies (more magic based), GAW and the Native Americam Preserves (who are not likely to trade with you) and the loss of Tolkeen, there hasn't been any major changes to that list. And I recall somewhere that the CS suspended their armor repair services.

Again that's less than a dozen places that can offer you new sales or repairs for existing equipment.

[panzerfaust]

Try looking here, Charz: viewtopic.php?t=75874 these are the (relatively) simple rules I've come up with for converting Rifts into an S.D.C. setting: The only thing you need to get to make full use of these rules is the Rifts Coversion Book 1 (needed for detemining A.R. of tech machines and coverting magic and some D-Bees/Monsters/Supernatural Beings to the S.D.C. system).