House rules for point-buy character creation?

[Cyrano de Maniac]

I've long been a fan of point-buy systems for character creation, which might have something to do with my first real exposure to role-playing being two different systems (not sure if I should name names) which used that method. A second reason I prefer point-buy systems is that, as a player, I find my best characters are created when I have a strong rational back-story, and a random die-roll for basic stats can seriously damage the character concept.

Do any of you happen to have a set of house rules for implementing point-buy character creation for Rifts (or other Palladium systems, which I could use as a starting point)? If so, would you mind sharing?

I've thought of writing such a set of rules myself (hmm, maybe that could be Rifter material), based upon the "lethality" (for combat skills/spells/psionics/equipment) or "influence" (for everything else) of everything a character has. In theory characters with a similar point-value would have similar effectiveness and potential impact on the game. However, to comprehensively apply such a system to the massive stack of Rifts books I have on hand would be a major undertaking, so I haven't even begun to think about it.

Anyway, I'd sure like to hear your thoughts on this.

Brent

[leonmallett]

I've long been a fan of point-buy systems for character creation, which might have something to do with my first real exposure to role-playing being two different systems (not sure if I should name names) which used that method. A second reason I prefer point-buy systems is that, as a player, I find my best characters are created when I have a strong rational back-story, and a random die-roll for basic stats can seriously damage the character concept.

Do any of you happen to have a set of house rules for implementing point-buy character creation for Rifts (or other Palladium systems, which I could use as a starting point)? If so, would you mind sharing?

I've thought of writing such a set of rules myself (hmm, maybe that could be Rifter material), based upon the "lethality" (for combat skills/spells/psionics/equipment) or "influence" (for everything else) of everything a character has. In theory characters with a similar point-value would have similar effectiveness and potential impact on the game. However, to comprehensively apply such a system to the massive stack of Rifts books I have on hand would be a major undertaking, so I haven't even begun to think about it.

Anyway, I'd sure like to hear your thoughts on this.

Brent

Rather than point buy what about generating sets of 8 scores and then assigning those as best fits the charater concept (potenially rolling say and choosing the best 8, or whatever variation). That way you are fitting to concept without stepping too far toward 'enforced balance'. The system is inherently imbalanced (which I like because the genre i will be playing in next is based on source material in which characters aren't balanced in power levels, but I digress), so a point-buy approach becomes a little self-defeating.

[teulisch]

technicaly, you can roll in the range of 3 to 30 for 8 stats on a human.

personaly, i would say 4d6 drop lowest, unless its a 16+ then add the lowest die to that amount. if you roll four 6's, roll a 5th die. arrange as needed.

for point buy...
stats of 8 or less (usualy 7) have a penalty in R:UE. you dont get bonuses until 16+, but you can easily get a few bonuses from skills or just picking the right OCC. lets say that we put stats at a neutral 12 base, and for each -1 you can get a +1. six nines, a twelve, and you can grab one 30. or six nines and you can get two 21s. that would be fairly impressive stats by itself. just change your base number for how high you want to see stats.

biggest problem with point buy, is some people will take some very high stats, and some very low, then pick an augmentation that raises those 'very low' stats above 20 (juicer, crazy, borg). so you need to make that stat relate to where it will end up post-augmentation. If i drop speed to 3, and then get partial conversion, that low speed is replaced and i got 'free' points.

[KillWatch]

Cyberpunk has a scale of points for your average joe to nigh superhero stats.
There are 8 canon stats
Average =10
So if you want an average character then give everyone 80 points to spend on their atts up to a max of 30 or whatever their racial max is
Strong=15=90
Very Strong=20=160
Ultimate=30 and then it just doesn't matter since everything will be 30 anyhow.

The problem is is that there are skills that bump stats.

IQ 30
ME 3
MA 3
PS 30
PP 3
PE 3
PB 5
Spd 3
=80 pts

[Cyrano de Maniac]

That all makes sense, and the method of figuring out how many points to run seems reasonable.

I guess I didn't elaborate enough though. I'm thinking of a more complete point-buy system, similar to Champions/Hero or GURPS. So buying up stats through the use of implants and stuff would cost character points, bringing things back into balance. But such a drastic reworking of character creation would be inhumanly difficult -- you may as well just throw out the rules and use another system's rules with Rifts' setting.

I do agree that it's nice, in certain ways, that Rifts doesn't take care to balance OCCs/RCCs. I think you have to depend on players having a solid character concept as their motivation rather than power-madness. I guess I just don't have a lot of faith that lots of groups have that mentality.

Anyway, to me its an interesting idea. If I ever come up with such house rules myself, I'll be sure to post them here.

Brent

[Nelly]

We usually roll 4d6 leave the lowest out and put them where we want them to have. Don't like the buy system and I don't like it when I am forced to use the rolls for the stats as they fall, that way I can never play what I want in the first place.

[NovenTheHero]

I just pick stats I want for a character concept...no stat rolling over here.

[Grell]

I usually give the player the option of rolling per attribute and letting the stats fall where they man or rolling and place to tastes.

Some of my players like the randomness and establishing a character concept from what is generated. A few (most notably in recent days) want to base their PC's on a comic character or some such and require specific strengths and weaknesses, but I still make them roll 3d6 per attribute before assigning them.

[Nemo235]

I know exactly what you are talking about, especially when it comes to Heroes Unlimited.

It claims that players can create any kind of character, but that's just not true if you play the rules straight out of the book.
We're stuck with origins which are essentially classes.

What if I wanted to create some different types of characters, like a mutant animal that uses magic or a robot with super powers?
I would have to come up with my own house rules.
And that can work for some GM's.

I think what you are asking about is creating characters from the ground up including attributes, skills, special abilities, etc.
You would have to create some pretty extensive house rules and figure out point values for all that.

[shiiv-a]

well if that works for you i guess thats fine.

me? .. i'ld state .. all stats START at 3 points.

here are 20 additional points for you to use. contact me when you THINK you have your stats organized

i ended up being talked into allowing an ELF char 80 points with a 3 base .. and ended up with a 30 PB elf with stats in the high numbers in 3 other fields. like .. excuse me? .. THEN i got told 'well i'm adding in the racial bonuses for the elf and for the class of ... ' i stopped listening at that point. that person wanted to be the munchie be all end all of the game prima dona .. so after thinking about the idea a while more .. i said i think i'll be thinking this over a bit more.

the ... person stated publically 'i figured you'ld back out .. you're nothing more than cheal talk .. ' then logged off and didn't show up for about 3 days when he thought it was safe to come on ... i was waiting in a different name .. and acted like i had just heard the latest gossip ..

the guy spilled the beans on how he had pumped his char up .. basically cheated after pressuring the idiot GM wanna be into doing it his way. then i switched to my normal name and said 'really? .. thats so comforting to know. i ask for honesty and you pull the wool over my eyes and then brag about it behind my back .. thats really grown up of you .. '

he sorta went quiet then logged off .. didn't see him for about a week .. and when he saw me enter the room, he fled .. ... i don't GM for him .. err her .. he travels about with a fem's name. go figure. *shrugs*

[[ and NO i didn't state a name .. so its not flaming ]]

so long story short ... be really careful about the 'point buy' system. there are those out there that will push you until you give them what you want .. and when you complain aobut it .. will rag you into quitting.