Question: Hound vision?

[The ineffible GM]

An interesting question has arisen with a player of mine.
Hounds from Nightbane have the following natural ability: Immune to all illusions and powers of concealment (can see through the Shroud Talent, normal invisibility
spells, and any magical or psionic powers of disguise or camouflage)

Does this include powers of metamorphosis?
Does it only include SOME of the powers of Metamorphosis? Such as those where the transformation grants the abilities of the new form? What if the transformation does not? Specifically I am dealing with a Chiang-Ku dragon hatchling. Their power reads: The power of metamorphosis
is a natural power common to most dragons, but
no other dragon possesses the degree of control and duration
as the Chiang-Ku. Even as a hatchling, the dragon is a
shapechanger supreme, able to completely alter its physical
shape to look like any living animal, from human being to raven,
and can even turn into mist (same as the spell). The
transformation lasts indefinitely (mist has the same limits as
the spell) — weeks, months, or years! Even when rendered
unconscious or sleeping, the Chiang-Ku retains its false
shape. Only coma or death will transform the dragon into its
true serpentine body. The dragon's shape-changing prowess
is so great that it can try to copy/imitate a particular person or
specific animal at a skill proficiency of 10% +5% per level of
experience.
Regardless of it's shape, a dragon is a dragon, with all it's natural powers and abilities. So a hatchling metamorphed to look like a goat can still talk, cast spells, and kick with the strength of a dragon. The Metamorphosis does NOT instill any of the abilities of the animal or person the dragon is imitating.


The power description also states that the dragon cannot turn into an inanimate object, and that it cannot transform into anything smaller than a cat.


Can a hound see through a chiang-ku's metamorphosis?

[asajosh]

I would say no.
I draw a distinct line between things like illusions, invisibility, and camoflage and actually changing shape. Metamorphosis, imho, is much more then a simple illusion.
I don't have my 'Bane boos handy so this hound, can it see Nightbane in their facade forms? if not, then deffinately no on seeing thru metamorphosis. Especially not one as good as a Chang-Ku or Auto-G.

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip...

Does this include powers of metamorphosis? No, the hound would see what the after effect of the trasformation only, sence it is not an illusion to bee seen through.

...snip...


Can a hound see through a chiang-ku's metamorphosis? No, for the same reasons above, it is an actual physical change.

As for non-magical camoflage, you might get a negitive to the skill but it will still work because it is not magical in nature.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Nope, Hounds can't see though metamorphasis at all. it's not a form of concealment, but a form of change.

[The ineffible GM]

See, now that is what I would have normally said. Most forms of metamorphosis are full on alteration of physical shape. The Chiang-ku seems a little different. When a chiang-ku alters it's shape, it gain NO abilities of it's new forms. That says to me if it changes to a dog, it cannot track by scent. If it changes to a psi-stalker it does not feed off of ppe. If it changes to a bird, it cannot fly. Is this a true metamorphosis then?

Is this an angle you folks considered?

[drewkitty ~..~]

See, now that is what I would have normally said. Most forms of metamorphosis are full on alteration of physical shape. The Chiang-ku seems a little different. When a chiang-ku alters it's shape, it gain NO abilities of it's new forms. That says to me if it changes to a dog, it cannot track by scent. If it changes to a psi-stalker it does not feed off of ppe. If it changes to a bird, it cannot fly. Is this a true metamorphosis then?

Is this an angle you folks considered?

Framing the answer with in the bounds of the topic...
With dragons its more a shape change then a metamorphisis. Even so it is still a physical change.

[asajosh]

See, now that is what I would have normally said. Most forms of metamorphosis are full on alteration of physical shape. The Chiang-ku seems a little different. When a chiang-ku alters it's shape, it gain NO abilities of it's new forms. That says to me if it changes to a dog, it cannot track by scent. If it changes to a psi-stalker it does not feed off of ppe. If it changes to a bird, it cannot fly. Is this a true metamorphosis then?

Is this an angle you folks considered?

Dragon metamorphosis is different from the spelsl Metamorphosis: Animal and Metamorphosis: Superior. These spells grant the abilities of the animal (psi-stalkers and other RCCs excluded) where the dragon's natural ability does not. Not even Chaig-Ku. Chaing-Ku are different then most in that they can hold their shape indeffinately and change into mist. If any dragon species wants to sniff like a blood hound, they have to use the spell version of metamorphosis to do it (spending PPE like any other caster).

[Nekira Sudacne]

See, now that is what I would have normally said. Most forms of metamorphosis are full on alteration of physical shape. The Chiang-ku seems a little different. When a chiang-ku alters it's shape, it gain NO abilities of it's new forms. That says to me if it changes to a dog, it cannot track by scent. If it changes to a psi-stalker it does not feed off of ppe. If it changes to a bird, it cannot fly. Is this a true metamorphosis then?

Is this an angle you folks considered?

They still physically CHANGE THEIR SHAPE. It's true, they don't become a REAL fish, but they REALLY HAVE A BODY THAT LOOKS just like a fish.

Same difference.