Missiles & Armor Piercing Missiles

[GreenGhost]

In one of the Rifters there are rules that indicate SDC damage that can be done to a character while wearing MDC armor (much like a modern bullet resistant vest). This works well by making the game much more realistic for laser, plasma, ion, kinetic weapons, etc. in the games that I GM. My question is what would the affect be, on a charcater or NPC, when stuck by a direct impact from a mini missile? Also what would the affect be for an Armor Piercing Mini-Missile. I would assume that an Armor Piercing Missile should be severe considering the fact that these missiles are designed to help rupture (or pierce) vehicle armor and using one against MDC Body Armor or MDC Environmental Body Armor should be pretty severe.

What opinions do you all have about this?

[Mouser13]

Can't remember the exact rules in RUE. I think they added that they do triple damage on crit(may have add a increase crit range to not for sure). Also I think they added a direct it on a person does double damage(all missiles), but I have only read the RUE once so. I maybe mixing facts.

[Killer Cyborg]

In one of the Rifters there are rules that indicate SDC damage that can be done to a character while wearing MDC armor (much like a modern bullet resistant vest).

Since the main book, high-speed impacts and explosions have been able to inflict SDC damage on people inside MDC armor.

This works well by making the game much more realistic for laser, plasma, ion, kinetic weapons, etc. in the games that I GM.

Officially, it's just kinetic damage, and not even from railguns.
Just from explosions and crashes.

[qutoe] My question is what would the affect be, on a charcater or NPC, when stuck by a direct impact from a mini missile?[/quote]

RUE, p. 355-356
1 SDC/HP of damage for every 20 MD from an explosion
(Although as of RUE this rule is Optional)

Also what would the affect be for an Armor Piercing Mini-Missile.

Same.
The "Armor Piercing" is represented by the high damage and improved critical hit.

[glitterboy2098]

Can't remember the exact rules in RUE. I think they added that they do triple damage on crit(may have add a increase crit range to not for sure). Also I think they added a direct it on a person does double damage(all missiles), but I have only read the RUE once so. I maybe mixing facts.

IIRC, its x2 damage on a roll of 18 and 19, and x3 damage on a nat 20.


if you were to make this a generic rules that could be applied elsewhere, this might help alleviate the low damages of the anti-tank weapons on bots and vehicles. so that 1D6x10 MD laser cannon of the linebacker tank counts as an "armor piercing weapon" and can do much extra damage on a lucky hit.

[Phadeout]

Can't remember the exact rules in RUE. I think they added that they do triple damage on crit(may have add a increase crit range to not for sure). Also I think they added a direct it on a person does double damage(all missiles), but I have only read the RUE once so. I maybe mixing facts.

IIRC, its x2 damage on a roll of 18 and 19, and x3 damage on a nat 20.


if you were to make this a generic rules that could be applied elsewhere, this might help alleviate the low damages of the anti-tank weapons on bots and vehicles. so that 1D6x10 MD laser cannon of the linebacker tank counts as an "armor piercing weapon" and can do much extra damage on a lucky hit.

Ooooo, good thought.

[Proseksword]

It does say in the missile section of RUE that Armor Piercing missiles do triple damage on a critical strike.

[GreenGhost]

When working with "house rules" or modified rules like this I always take a few things into consideration.

1) It's been said that using a large anti-vehicle weapon against infantry is difficult...like swatting a fly with a .50 caliber pistol. Whenever I use "realistic" rules in my games, I always include a negative for any artillary and missle weapons to direct-hit man size or smaller targets (that's what fragmentation rounds and missles are for).

2) Yes, if a AP missle somehow manages to score a DIRECT hit it will really mess up the day of the person in the armor. With most modern AP missles, most of the explosive charge is spent softening and weakening the armor before the penetrator is sent shooting through the softspot. My personal ruling on this is 10% of the damage of the AP round gets transfered to the person inside the armor (and for most non supernaturals this means instant death). Yes, getting hit with an AP missle can and should kill a human wearing even the most high tech armor.

The answer: Wear a forcefield.

Makes sense to me. I would probably rule on the damage done to the character in the armor a bit more than 10% (I think the damage should be more threatening for MDC creatures), but it's still the best answer for those who want the game to be a bit more realistic.

[Phadeout]

When working with "house rules" or modified rules like this I always take a few things into consideration.

1) It's been said that using a large anti-vehicle weapon against infantry is difficult...like swatting a fly with a .50 caliber pistol. Whenever I use "realistic" rules in my games, I always include a negative for any artillary and missle weapons to direct-hit man size or smaller targets (that's what fragmentation rounds and missles are for).

2) Yes, if a AP missle somehow manages to score a DIRECT hit it will really mess up the day of the person in the armor. With most modern AP missles, most of the explosive charge is spent softening and weakening the armor before the penetrator is sent shooting through the softspot. My personal ruling on this is 10% of the damage of the AP round gets transfered to the person inside the armor (and for most non supernaturals this means instant death). Yes, getting hit with an AP missle can and should kill a human wearing even the most high tech armor.

The answer: Wear a forcefield.

Makes sense to me. I would probably rule on the damage done to the character in the armor a bit more than 10% (I think the damage should be more threatening for MDC creatures), but it's still the best answer for those who want the game to be a bit more realistic.

Against MDC creatures, I normally allow double damage for called shots to an un-protected MDC head

[GreenGhost]

When working with "house rules" or modified rules like this I always take a few things into consideration.

1) It's been said that using a large anti-vehicle weapon against infantry is difficult...like swatting a fly with a .50 caliber pistol. Whenever I use "realistic" rules in my games, I always include a negative for any artillary and missle weapons to direct-hit man size or smaller targets (that's what fragmentation rounds and missles are for).

2) Yes, if a AP missle somehow manages to score a DIRECT hit it will really mess up the day of the person in the armor. With most modern AP missles, most of the explosive charge is spent softening and weakening the armor before the penetrator is sent shooting through the softspot. My personal ruling on this is 10% of the damage of the AP round gets transfered to the person inside the armor (and for most non supernaturals this means instant death). Yes, getting hit with an AP missle can and should kill a human wearing even the most high tech armor.

The answer: Wear a forcefield.

Makes sense to me. I would probably rule on the damage done to the character in the armor a bit more than 10% (I think the damage should be more threatening for MDC creatures), but it's still the best answer for those who want the game to be a bit more realistic.

Against MDC creatures, I normally allow double damage for called shots to an un-protected MDC head

[Nxla666]

Official rule for AP missiles (all)...

Double damage on an 18+ (bonuses included).

Triple damage on a Natural 20.

Yes this means most of my players have switched from plasma to AP warheads as the main anti-whatever missile.

[cyber-yukongil v2.5]

Official rule for AP missiles (all)...

Double damage on an 18+ (bonuses included).

Triple damage on a Natural 20.

Yes this means most of my players have switched from plasma to AP warheads as the main anti-whatever missile.

be forewarned, that when using this rule, all your players will turn into CS missile rifle hunting zombies. They will drop all that they are doing to try and get these rifles, normally resutling in their deaths, but then that means the game has ended, so it's a lose/lose.

And slap any fool who wants to be a Sea Inquisitor with one of these.

[mellowmaveric]

In one of the Rifters there are rules that indicate SDC damage that can be done to a character while wearing MDC armor (much like a modern bullet resistant vest). This works well by making the game much more realistic for laser, plasma, ion, kinetic weapons, etc. in the games that I GM. My question is what would the affect be, on a charcater or NPC, when stuck by a direct impact from a mini missile? Also what would the affect be for an Armor Piercing Mini-Missile. I would assume that an Armor Piercing Missile should be severe considering the fact that these missiles are designed to help rupture (or pierce) vehicle armor and using one against MDC Body Armor or MDC Environmental Body Armor should be pretty severe.

What opinions do you all have about this?

Most misles are designed to explode on impact but armor piercing is designed to punch through one side and hopfuly go throught the other. Armor piercings usualy dont carry an explosive charge but are more of a solid object with a point covered with a hardened surface to help punch through what ever they hit. While both damaging in their own way they have verry different effects. Most missles are area effect weapons much like grenades sending out and explosion, shockwave and shrapnel. Armor piercing would be used to target a lone individual or object. Much like a sniper firing of one round in to a crowded room compared to somone using a mac 10 and the pray and spray hitting several targets but not nesicarly killing everyone they hit and posibly missing hitting some with impresice aim.

[The Beast]

Arise. ARISE! ARISE YE DEAD THREAD!!!


I could have sworn I did this spell once already...

[GreenGhost]

In one of the Rifters there are rules that indicate SDC damage that can be done to a character while wearing MDC armor (much like a modern bullet resistant vest). This works well by making the game much more realistic for laser, plasma, ion, kinetic weapons, etc. in the games that I GM. My question is what would the affect be, on a charcater or NPC, when stuck by a direct impact from a mini missile? Also what would the affect be for an Armor Piercing Mini-Missile. I would assume that an Armor Piercing Missile should be severe considering the fact that these missiles are designed to help rupture (or pierce) vehicle armor and using one against MDC Body Armor or MDC Environmental Body Armor should be pretty severe.

What opinions do you all have about this?

Most misles are designed to explode on impact but armor piercing is designed to punch through one side and hopfuly go throught the other. Armor piercings usualy dont carry an explosive charge but are more of a solid object with a point covered with a hardened surface to help punch through what ever they hit. While both damaging in their own way they have verry different effects. Most missles are area effect weapons much like grenades sending out and explosion, shockwave and shrapnel. Armor piercing would be used to target a lone individual or object. Much like a sniper firing of one round in to a crowded room compared to somone using a mac 10 and the pray and spray hitting several targets but not nesicarly killing everyone they hit and posibly missing hitting some with impresice aim.

Very true. Just out of curiosity what would be your "House Rule" on the percentage or amount of damage the individual wearing the armor would take?

[Spinachcat]

Here's my house rules.

worn MDC armor = wearer takes damage as SDC
MDC power armor = wearer takes half damage as SDC
MDC vehicle armor = occupants take half damage as SDC on criticals only

[Dog_O_War]

A 18-19 for x2 damage isn't worth your while. Neither is x3 on a 20.

You will roll 1-17 way more times than you would the above, and for what? 2d4x10? 3d4x10?

2d4x10 has a damage average of 50, and a maximum of 80.
1d6x10 has a damage average of 35, and a maximum of 60.

Assuming all hits are average, and you hit on any strike that is 8+ you are doing 25 for the first 10 hits, 50 for the next two, and 75 for the last one with AP missiles, for a damage average of 425.

With plasma you are doing 35 for the first 12 hits, and 70 for the last one, for a damage average of 440.

The majority of your hits, as well as the combined total damage from your hits is greater than that of an AP missile - always. And this doesn't even factor in the 15 foot radius of the plasma MM, versus the 3 foot radius of the AP MM.

To make AP missiles more appealing, I've changed it so that AP missiles always deal double-damage (2d4x10) on direct hits. Targets that dodge the missile are still affected by the 6-foot area, but take only half damage (1d4x10 / 2) (they can dodge the area too, but that's another roll). Plasma missiles do a steady 1d6x10 damage regardless of direct or area-hits.

[Talavar]

I might be remembering this wrong. But with the RUE I'm pretty certain with AP missile you do x2damage if your to strike total was 18+, not just if you rolled 18+. Unfortunetly I'm at work and don't have my book with me so I can't verify my memory right now.

You are correct, Armour-piercing missiles do double damage on 18-19 with bonuses as of RUE at least, not just a natural roll. Now, bonuses to strike with heavy MD weapons generally aren't great, but that does increase the threat range somewhat, so it's worth mentioning....

[Nxla666]

I might be remembering this wrong. But with the RUE I'm pretty certain with AP missile you do x2damage if your to strike total was 18+, not just if you rolled 18+. Unfortunetly I'm at work and don't have my book with me so I can't verify my memory right now.

You are correct, Armour-piercing missiles do double damage on 18-19 with bonuses as of RUE at least, not just a natural roll. Now, bonuses to strike with heavy MD weapons generally aren't great, but that does increase the threat range somewhat, so it's worth mentioning....

Correct, and x3 damage on a Nat. 20

They have pretty much replaced plasma as the "must have" missile, at least in the games I have run... and the way to few I get to actually play.

[Nxla666]

For pass through damage I use a base of 10 to 1 for most, against explosives and certain other attacks 5 to 1.