Alternate skill system?

[sasha]

Keep and use it as is. Added a few skills though.

[Killer Cyborg]

What problems are you having with the skill system?

[The Beast]

ANyone else felt the need to redo or alter the skill system? Im open to suggestions. (I hate percentile based systems that arent just a hit location, wild surge or random encounter table)

Only to wanting some skills with starting % higher than where they are, and updating the technological-oriented ones.

[sasha]

By rolling percentile.

If I step on a stick, I failed my Prowl.
If I don't, I didn't.

I can see your point. But I don't have a problem with how Palladium does it.

[Killer Cyborg]

What problems are you having with the skill system?

Specifically? Im not a big fan of % based systems. Take a skill such as prowl for example. I grew up on Shadowrun, where if you wanted to sneak up on someone, it was your stealth skill vs. their perception. The same idea goes for D20, its Hide Vs. Spot. With this system, the person being snuck up on is out of the equation. Unless he has a dominant enhanced sense or a danger sense, he is a non-factor. So what this means is that (Using classic marvel characters) Psylock (Professional assassin) has the chance to fail on sneaking up on Joe Schmoe as she does on Captain America. On the other end, Joe Schmoe could sneak up on Thor at the same probability as he could on that blind guy over there.

It has alot to do with the way I grew up I guess. How do you handle skills that should be oppositional when they... arent? Applying an arbitrary penalty to the roll seems insufficient.

This is a common problem, because Palladium didn't put any thought into oppositional skills.
They DO have Perception now, though, and it's something that (IIRC) everybody gets. That started in Nightbane and moved to other games.

But lets say you have two people.
One is trying to prowl up on the other, and that guy has Detect Ambush (which officially can't be used to detect prowling people, but which would logically be the opposing roll, discounting Perception; that's how we always did it before they "clarified" the Detect Ambush skill).

The best house rule I came up with (although other people have apparently come up with it too), is:
Have each character make a skill check.
-If both fail their checks, then whomever fails by the narrowest margin wins (GM's use judgement here; sometimes the failed prowler is just going to make noise that anybody can hear)
-If one succeeds, and the other fails, then the guy who succeeds wins.
-If both make their checks, then whomever rolled the highest (without going over their skill number) wins.

So say the Prowler has a 55% skill in Prowl, and the Detecter has a 35% skill in Detect Ambush:
-If the Prowler rolls a 45, and the Detecter rolls a 50, the Prowler wins.
-If the Prowler rolls a 50, and the Detecter rolls a 35%, then the Proler wins.

And so forth.

[The Beast]

So say the Prowler has a 55% skill in Prowl, and the Detecter has a 35% skill in Detect Ambush:
-If the Prowler rolls a 45, and the Detecter rolls a 50, the Prowler wins.
-If the Prowler rolls a 50, and the Detecter rolls a 35%, then the Proler wins.

And so forth.

Shouldn't it be lower roll wins? If prowler rolls a 47% and guard rolls a 10%, the prowler's alot closer to failing his roll than the guard is.

[bigbobsr6000]

Big Bob's House Rules for MISCELLANEOUS CHECKS FOR RIFTS

These suggestions are for some of the checks that might not be covered in Riftsä or for a quick check, as the situation requires. Use a percentile dice set or roll a one hundred sided die. A successful roll is less than or equal the results given for each type of check below. Hope these help.

Please note that percentages cannot be greater than 98%. There is always a chance for error.

NOTE: M.A. percentile bonus, if any, is divided by 10 rounded down for adjusted M.A. Mod for the formulas below. EX: 35% bonus/10 = 3.5 = rounded down = 3 M.A. Mod used in formulas.

Intelligence Check = 2% x I.Q. Score + I.Q. Mod/Lvl (Minimum of +1) to a Maximum of 98%

Listen Check = 2% x M.A Score + M.A. Mod/Lvl (Minimum of +1) to a Maximum of 98%

Spot Check = Change all numbers to percent.(I.Q. + M.A.) + (I.Q. Mod+ M.A. Mod ÷ 2)/Lvl (Minimum of +1) to a Maximum of 98%

Extremely Difficult Task: -30%
Very Difficult Task: -20%
Difficult Task: -10%
Average Task: +0%
Fairly Easy Task: +10%
Easy Task: +20%
Very Easy +30%

Intelligence Check: Extremely Difficult Task example: Defusing a bomb with no demolitions skills or training in 15 seconds before it blows up you and the school full of children. Easy Task example: Hitting the nail, not your thumb, with a hammer.

Listen Check: Extremely Difficult To Hear example: Ticking of a bomb three rooms away in the basement of a school full of children. Easy To Hear example: The noise you make when you failed the Easy Task and hit your thumb with the hammer.

Spot Check: Extremely Difficult To Spot example: Seeing a dull-pitch-black case containing a bomb in the complete dark basement of the school full of children. Fuse box is out and your flashlight doesn’t work. Easy to Spot example: The swelling of your thumb you hit with the hammer.

Intelligence EX: IQ is 18. 18 x2% = 36% base Intelligence Check + 4% per level starting at level 2.
Listen EX: MA is 20. 20x2% = 40 % base Listen Check + 60%/10 = +6% per level starting at level 2.
Spot EX: IQ is 18 and MA is 20. 18 + 20 = 38% base Spot Check + 18% + (60%/10 = +6%) = 24% divided by 2 = +12% per level starting at level 2.

I have play tested the several times, it has worked so far.

Feel free to use and abuse as you see fit.

Feedback welcome, thanks Big Bob..........................

Orginal post edited

[sasha]

I am curious about why did you select Mental Affinity for these checks?

[bigbobsr6000]

I am curious about why did you select Mental Affinity for these checks?

Closest attribute I think (could be wrong) that would affect hearing/wisdom.

I have edited my orginal post to explain better I hope. Thanks for the FB, Big Bob...................

[Killer Cyborg]

So say the Prowler has a 55% skill in Prowl, and the Detecter has a 35% skill in Detect Ambush:
-If the Prowler rolls a 45, and the Detecter rolls a 50, the Prowler wins.
-If the Prowler rolls a 50, and the Detecter rolls a 35%, then the Proler wins.

And so forth.

Shouldn't it be lower roll wins? If prowler rolls a 47% and guard rolls a 10%, the prowler's alot closer to failing his roll than the guard is.

Higher roll.
Why?

If one guy has 60%, and the other has 10%, then the guy with 60% has a higher chance of outright failure... but IF he succeeds then he's automatically going to be within 9 points of his skill.
Which means that while the situation of "both succeed" will come up less often than it would with two equally skilled people, when it does come up, the less-skilled person has an edge.
Which doesn't sit right with me.

I look at it as wanting to put every ounce of skill you have into the attempt, without over-extending yourself and screwing up (going over the skill).
By that same token, if somebody rolls exactly their skill number, I count it as a critical success (x2 their roll on an opposed check, otherwise just a really good success).

[sasha]

I am curious about why did you select Mental Affinity for these checks?

Closest attribute I think (could be wrong) that would affect hearing/wisdom.

I have edited my orginal post to explain better I hope. Thanks for the FB, Big Bob...................

I see.

Do you use Perception at all?

[bigbobsr6000]

I am curious about why did you select Mental Affinity for these checks?

Closest attribute I think (could be wrong) that would affect hearing/wisdom.

I have edited my orginal post to explain better I hope. Thanks for the FB, Big Bob...................

I see.

Do you use Perception at all?

Yes, I use Perception as well. It's just that certain situations, I feel, call for something more than a general over all perception check. Or why should a PC be penalized for not having any perception bonuses at all.

You can also come up with Wisdom Checks, Concentration Checks, etc. using same idea I have presented here. Of course feel free to come up with your own way. This is just some ideas I had on this thought.

Thanks again, Big Bob.........................

[The Beast]

Or why should a PC be penalized for not having any perception bonuses at all.

Because they're stupid?

[bigbobsr6000]

Or why should a PC be penalized for not having any perception bonuses at all.

Because they're stupid?

Thanks for your input.

As I understand Perception Rule only certain OCC/PCC/RCC's get any bonuses to perception not all.

If that's true, how could someone of high IQ, MA, etc. be so "stupid" as not to be able to perceive clues, memories, spot something, search for stuff and etc. I know there is a fine line between being highly intelligent and being capable of tieing one's own shoe. Albert Einstein reportedly could not count his own change from buying something.

This is my way of allowing for other type of rolls for this. Its just a game mechanic (there's that diry word again) for me.

Thanks again, Big Bob..........................

[The Beast]

Or why should a PC be penalized for not having any perception bonuses at all.

Because they're stupid?

Thanks for your input.

As I understand Perception Rule only certain OCC/PCC/RCC's get any bonuses to perception not all.

If that's true, how could someone of high IQ, MA, etc. be so "stupid" as not to be able to perceive clues, memories, spot something, search for stuff and etc.

People with high IQs do get a bonus.

[bigbobsr6000]

Or why should a PC be penalized for not having any perception bonuses at all.

Because they're stupid?

Thanks for your input.

As I understand Perception Rule only certain OCC/PCC/RCC's get any bonuses to perception not all.

If that's true, how could someone of high IQ, MA, etc. be so "stupid" as not to be able to perceive clues, memories, spot something, search for stuff and etc.

People with high IQs do get a bonus.

Could you please tell where in the rules that high IQ adds bonus to Perception Check? I have not been able to find it or I am just plain "supid".

[sasha]

I'm not sure which check bigbobsr6000 failed!

[The Beast]

Or why should a PC be penalized for not having any perception bonuses at all.

Because they're stupid?

Thanks for your input.

As I understand Perception Rule only certain OCC/PCC/RCC's get any bonuses to perception not all.

If that's true, how could someone of high IQ, MA, etc. be so "stupid" as not to be able to perceive clues, memories, spot something, search for stuff and etc.

People with high IQs do get a bonus.

Could you please tell where in the rules that high IQ adds bonus to Perception Check? I have not been able to find it or I am just plain "supid".

Nightbane main book page 66: Add +1 for every three levels, and for those with exceptional IQs you add the bonus by using the ME bonus for psionics/insanity (IQ's number, ME's bonus).

BTW, I wasn't meaning you were stupid earlier, I was just meaning characters without perception bonuses.

[bigbobsr6000]

Nightbane main book page 66: Add +1 for every three levels, and for those with exceptional IQs you add the bonus by using the ME bonus for psionics/insanity (IQ's number, ME's bonus).

BTW, I wasn't meaning you were stupid earlier, I was just meaning characters without perception bonuses.

I know you weren't, I was just joking about that. Thanks for the info, I only looked in RUE. It doesn't give bonuses for high IQ or levels of experience.

Thanks, Big Bob............................

[sasha]

Nightbane main book page 66: Add +1 for every three levels, and for those with exceptional IQs you add the bonus by using the ME bonus for psionics/insanity (IQ's number, ME's bonus).

BTW, I wasn't meaning you were stupid earlier, I was just meaning characters without perception bonuses.

I know you weren't, I was just joking about that. Thanks for the info, I only looked in RUE. It doesn't give bonuses for high IQ or levels of experience.

Thanks, Big Bob............................

You could tell he was joking by the way Big Bob spelled 'stupid' incorrectly.
Hehe.

Oh yea and the laughing smile.

Thanks for the rule though; I never knew that.

[bigbobsr6000]

"Gosh, almighty, M--O--O--N, that spells 'stupid'."

[bigbobsr6000]

Could you please tell where in the rules that high IQ adds bonus to Perception Check? I have not been able to find it or I am just plain "supid".

attributes beyond 30 under IQ pg 284 of RUE

Thanks, Big Bob.............................

[Killer Cyborg]

I simply want to have skills rewritten this way (I know it won't happen, but it's how envision skills being better)

all percentiles divided by 15 (rounded up) and converted to a number (so that Prowl of 50% becomes Prowl +4.

Attributes would be tied to a particular skill (in the case of Prowl, P.P. and I.Q. /4 (rounded down) would be the Applied Attributes (so an I.Q. of 10 and a P.P. of 12 would result in +5 to the Prowl Skill.

Thus the Prowl would be a Prowl +9.

A roll on Prowl would be 1D20 with the +10 bonus against a chart of degrees of success or failure.

In short, you want to play D20.

[sasha]

What's wrong with % anyway?

[Killer Cyborg]

I simply want to have skills rewritten this way (I know it won't happen, but it's how envision skills being better)

all percentiles divided by 15 (rounded up) and converted to a number (so that Prowl of 50% becomes Prowl +4.

Attributes would be tied to a particular skill (in the case of Prowl, P.P. and I.Q. /4 (rounded down) would be the Applied Attributes (so an I.Q. of 10 and a P.P. of 12 would result in +5 to the Prowl Skill.

Thus the Prowl would be a Prowl +9.

A roll on Prowl would be 1D20 with the +10 bonus against a chart of degrees of success or failure.

In short, you want to play D20.

I've never read a D20 game in my life.

D20 essentially took Palladium's combat system and turned it into the foundation for their own system.
It's all "roll d20, add bonuses" to beat a target number (like shots, called shots, and AR).
In the case of opposed skills (or attributes, or whatever), it's "d20 + bonuses vs d20 + bonueses" (like with dodge, parry, roll, etc).

It's a shame that Palladium didn't think of it, and implement it, but they didn't, so if they did it now it would just be copy-catting.

I suggest you go out and pick up some D20 core books.

[Killer Cyborg]

D20 essentially took Palladium's combat system and turned it into the foundation for their own system.

Except that the basis of the D20 system is old d&d which predates PB by several years. What they did was instead of using THAC0 (to hit armor class zero) you roll to hit the target # the roll is the same, but has less math.

The basis of D20 is old school D&D.
The basis of Palladium is also old school D&D.
The basis of the D20 skills system is D20+bonus vs. D20+bonus, which comes from the Palladium combat system.
The basis of the D20 combat system is D20+bonus to hit the target number, which comes from Palladium's combat system, which predates D20 by about 20 years.

This is how healthy competition works; each company taking ideas created by other companies and improving on them.

[bigbobsr6000]

One way I am going to play test Perception Roll is make it a percentile. For each 1 point multiply by 5%. 1=5%, 2=10%, etc.

If a PC has a Perception of +3 that would mean he has a +15% to add to his Perception Check.

So, if an NPC with a Prowl Skill of 65% were sneaking up on the PC they would both roll an opposing Percentile Check. The PC would roll his percentile and add +15% vs the NPC's Prowl Skill check. Who ever has the highest roll of the two wins. Of course, if the NPC rolls higher than his 65%, he automatically fails.

Also, Perception Checks to spot something would be the same. Let's say the DC to spot is 8 which = 40%. The same PC as above rolls a percentile and adds his +15% if it meets or exceeds the 40% he has spotted the item.

I think this is easier than changing some to several Skills to fit the d20 Perception Rule.

Feedback welcome. Thanks, Big Bob..........................

NOTE: I am recovering from minor surgery drugs kicking in So, my math maybe.................

[sasha]

One way I am going to play test Perception Roll is make it a percentile. For each 1 point multiply by 5%. 1=5%, 2=10%, etc.

If a PC has a Perception of +3 that would mean he has a +15% to add to his Perception Check.

So, if an NPC with a Prowl Skill of 65% were sneaking up on the PC they would both roll an opposing Percentile Check. The PC would roll his percentile and add +15% vs the NPC's Prowl Skill check. Who ever has the highest roll of the two wins. Of course, if the NPC rolls higher than his 65%, he automatically fails.

Also, Perception Checks to spot something would be the same. Let's say the DC to spot is 8 which = 40%. The same PC as above rolls a percentile and adds his +15% if it meets or exceeds the 40% he has spotted the item.

I think this is easier than changing some to several Skills to fit the d20 Perception Rule.

Feedback welcome. Thanks, Big Bob..........................

NOTE: I am recovering from minor surgery drugs kicking in So, my math maybe.................

Why have opposing checks to begin with?

I prefer % rolling over d20 x 5 rolling, so I can get on board with that.

[bigbobsr6000]

Why have opposing checks to begin with?

I prefer % rolling over d20 x 5 rolling, so I can get on board with that.

Because of the Perception Rule, which is a 1d20 roll, you do have a roll off/opposing checks.
RUE Page 368 Perception Rolls vs Stealth & Concealment Skills
A Prowl of 65% = +6 to a d20 roll of the Prowler vs a Perception bonus of +3 add to a d20 of the person on guard. The highest roller wins.

So, instead of switching skills to a d20 roll, I change the one Perception Roll to a percentile roll in keeping with Palladium's percentile system instead of a d2o system.

Thanks, Big Bob..............................

[sasha]

Why have opposing checks to begin with?

I prefer % rolling over d20 x 5 rolling, so I can get on board with that.

Because of the Perception Rule, which is a 1d20 roll, you do have a roll off/opposing checks.
RUE Page 368 Perception Rolls vs Stealth & Concealment Skills
A Prowl of 65% = +6 to a d20 roll of the Prowler vs a Perception bonus of +3 add to a d20 of the person on guard. The highest roller wins.

So, instead of switching skills to a d20 roll, I change the one Perception Roll to a percentile roll in keeping with Palladium's percentile system instead of a d2o system.

Thanks, Big Bob..............................

Ah I'll have to get my grubby hands on RUE.

I dislike opposing checks, except in combat. It's built into the success ratio of the skill.

[sasha]

I agree. Opposing checks are not needed. % works very well.