why does everyone hate on underseas?

Crash187 · Unread post by **Crash187** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:18 am

rifts underseas is my favorite worldbook, I have 90% percant of the rifts/palladium books and supplements(I have been collecting them for years and years) and I can honestly say that I find the rifts underseas environment to be the most entertaining. the problem is I can never get anyone to willingly go along with me when i want to run an underseas game. can somone please tell me why I am the only person on earth who digs this book?

Crash187 · Unread post by **Crash187** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:30 am

there is at least as much going on underseas as above if not significantly more. (in my humble opinion) :-)

oni no won · Unread post by **oni no won** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:12 am

Crash187 wrote:rifts underseas is my favorite worldbook, I have 90% percant of the rifts/palladium books and supplements(I have been collecting them for years and years) and I can honestly say that I find the rifts underseas environment to be the most entertaining. the problem is I can never get anyone to willingly go along with me when i want to run an underseas game. can somone please tell me why I am the only person on earth who digs this book?

Why don't you start small then? Part of the overall campaign can take place undersea. Give your players a taste of what an undersea adventure is like and hook them in.

R Ditto · Unread post by **R Ditto** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:54 am

Makes me think of the movie Water World.
If you like that movie, you can like settings with little (or no) dry land.
Pirates/bandits on jet skis, 'nuff said.

Maybe toss together and adventure the oceans in an old WWII sub (from an old museum maybe?) that has a sail rig setup using the raised periscope...
or wind turbines on deck or lots of floating solar panels to charge up the batteries...

Or some such thing...

Makes me wonder what would happen if a 'experimnental research sub designed to operate without supply for a long time' got trapped underwater by an underwater landslide when the Rifts hit, the crew was put in stasis somehow, and they get woke up after a few centuries when an earthquake or shockwave knocks rocks loose allowing sub to float slowly to surface, computer detects change in pressure and 'thaws out' the crew...
or something like that...

As a 'pirate themed games' fan (such as Sid Meiers Pirates, the old Pirates video game, etc), then some island hoping with lots of travel on water could work nicely.
"Wait... there used to be old wooden sailing ships? loaded with... dozens of tons of gold and treasure?!?! And old tales said one sunk near where?!?!?"

Shawn Merrow · Unread post by **Shawn Merrow** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:00 am

jigahus wrote:I love underseas. It has so much going on, I wish they made Lemuria but that has been deep 6'd.

A freelancer has wrote it and turned it in. I have no idea when it will see print though.

NovenTheHero · Unread post by **NovenTheHero** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:02 am

Dolphin Power Armor. Nuff Said.

Dustin Fireblade · Sat Dec 15, 2007 9:26 am

Shawn Merrow wrote:
jigahus wrote:I love underseas. It has so much going on, I wish they made Lemuria but that has been deep 6'd.

A freelancer has wrote it and turned it in. I have no idea when it will see print though.

And another guy from the forums, Glitterboy2098, has turned in a Rifter article as well.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:10 am

I don't hate it...I actually LIKE ships that don't go glub with 1-2 hits...and I was so miffed that Underseas 2 went glub...I've had to scramble to generate my own ideas for Lemurians and South Seas post-Rifts cultures...

Colt47 · Unread post by **Colt47** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:49 am

Most of the ocean floor is like a big rocky desert. Not saying there isn't life in the deep sea, just saying that once you get to the sea floor, there is more life above you then anywhere else unless you come to a steam vent. Most of the inspiration for the Sci Fi monsters and wierd Alien Intelligences comes from real living critters down in the deep dark ocean. :-D

Josh Sinsapaugh · Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:39 pm

For the Record: Underseas is one of my favorite books.

~ Josh

Preacher · Unread post by **Preacher** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:30 pm

I like the book myself.

I see the Dolphin Power Armor as just silly and don't fixate on it like some anal butt munch. The only real complaint from me about the book is the Humans with fishheads and even that doesn't make me dislike the book.

I give it an overall rating of 7 out of 10.

highpriestrsw2 · Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:09 pm

I've used it in my phaseworld game. I got the idea from an old RPG called Blue Planet that fantasy flight games used to make.

I had my own waterworld! sans Kevin Costner of course!

I made the planet vital to my game and sort of steered my players toward it by seeding them with rumors.

Preacher · Unread post by **Preacher** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 3:43 pm

Unknown_Nobody wrote:
Preacher wrote:I like the book myself.

I see the Dolphin Power Armor as just silly and don't fixate on it like some anal butt munch. The only real complaint from me about the book is the Humans with fishheads and even that doesn't make me dislike the book.

I give it an overall rating of 7 out of 10.

BLASPHEMY!!! *throws holy water but it's really acid*

Ahhhhhh The burn feels good. :demon:

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 5:17 pm

I like Underseas, in general; when I'm working on things along the seacoast, I take into account what's going on in the water, as well (pods of dolphins who interact with the humans, ocean wizards, kreel-lok, defenses against pirate raids, etc.).

My problems with it were:

1) Sea Titans. The book specifically leaves it open that pretty much any human character (except those from human-only societies like the CS) can be written as a Sea Titan, with no change in concept. In fact, Sea Titans will inevitably replace humans one day (since the child of every Sea Titan + human pairing is a Sea Titan, and Sea Titans are extremely long-lived, Sea Titans will replace humans simply by attrition), though it will take a long, long time.

2) Amphibs. No real problem with the concept... the art just looked silly.

Believe it or not, I had no problem with Dolphin power armor. It's one of those ideas that I see as inevitable... you have dolphins allied with technological powers, fighting forces which are capable of killing a normal dolphin far too easily. The technological powers are going to try to protect their dolphin friends.

Nekira Sudacne · Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:29 pm

The reason why is the setting gets dull.

your on a ship

Eventually you meet another ship.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:42 pm

Mark Hall wrote:
2) Amphibs. No real problem with the concept... the art just looked silly.

Believe it or not, I had no problem with Dolphin power armor. It's one of those ideas that I see as inevitable... you have dolphins allied with technological powers, fighting forces which are capable of killing a normal dolphin far too easily. The technological powers are going to try to protect their dolphin friends.

2) I admit, they looked funky...then they had an episode of 'Family Guy' (a series I normally loathe) with a 'reverse Merman'....I immediately thought 'Amphib'....

Dolphin Armor---I seem to recall an old Kirby comic..'Komanche: The Last Boy'(?) that had intelligent dolphins, killer whales, and aquatic weaponry they used...
Of course, David Brin had his Neo-Dolphins and their walkers, and Larry Niven has his cetaceans with prosthetic hands...In the same vein, Rick Sternbach did covers for 'World of Ptavvs' and 'Futurelife Magazine' that both featured dolphins in high-tech suits and artificial hands...both of which I think of when using Dolphins in Rifts...

Todd Yoho · Unread post by **Todd Yoho** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:31 pm

taalismn wrote:Dolphin Armor---I seem to recall an old Kirby comic..'Komanche: The Last Boy'(?) that had intelligent dolphins, killer whales, and aquatic weaponry they used...

Kamandi: The Last Boy on Earth. Very much a Rifts/After the Bomb setting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamandi

Colt47 · Unread post by **Colt47** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:36 pm

What is my favorite feature of Underseas? Picasso fish, because they are one of the silliest things ever made next to floopers. :-D

Library Ogre · Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:41 pm

Colt47 wrote:What is my favorite feature of Underseas? Picasso fish, because they are one of the silliest things ever made next to floopers.

IMO, they're not silly... they're a reasonable adaptation. A fish that feeds on an abundant resource like ambient PPE at ley lines? Seems perfectly reasonable.

glitterboy2098 · Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:10 am

rifts underseas is my favorite worldbook, I have 90% percant of the rifts/palladium books and supplements(I have been collecting them for years and years) and I can honestly say that I find the rifts underseas environment to be the most entertaining. the problem is I can never get anyone to willingly go along with me when i want to run an underseas game. can somone please tell me why I am the only person on earth who digs this book?

it's a great book. one of my favorites. but it has a few problems.

1) it's not a complete setting. it gives just enough material to play a undersea's campaign, but it has nothing on the kinds of communities and NPC's your likely to encouter. it focuses too much on the big militaries like the USNavy and NGR, or powerful groups like the Naut'yll and Horune. material for basic encounters is left to a handful of monsters and creatures. this leads to problem 2:

2) the impression given is that the seas are devoid of interest. unless it's Tritonia, New Navy, Naut'yll, or other big power, there seems to be nothing for players to do. there is no metaplot, no small communities for players to interact with, ect. even tossing in SB4 Coalition navy, the other undersea related book, you are left with the impression that the oceans are just one big giant empty stretch of water of which few people travel over, and that have absurdly powerful monsters trailing every boat.

3) it doesn't have most of the rules needed. we got information on depth, but nothing on fighting on and under water, using boats in a battle/campaign, or whatever. some of that can be found in other palladium books (adventures on the high sea's for palladium fantasy maybe), but without it being in WB7, it puts people off.

this combined with the fact that many people today just have lost the sense of wonder about the sea. 2-3 decades ago the ocean was looked at as mankinds last frontier. more important to human expansion than space. now, the facination has been lost in most. the loss of all the futurists predicting undersea colonies, farming, mining, and so on has meant that such concepts have left the public mind. the loss of great oceanographers like Jacques-Yves Cousteau hasn't helped.

sorry, rant mode off...

the thing about this book is that it's not that people hate it, it's that some people just didn't love it.

Dustin Fireblade wrote:
Shawn Merrow wrote:
jigahus wrote:I love underseas. It has so much going on, I wish they made Lemuria but that has been deep 6'd.

A freelancer has wrote it and turned it in. I have no idea when it will see print though.

And another guy from the forums, Glitterboy2098, has turned in a Rifter article as well.

Greg's lemurians sound like they could be cool, and i keep hoping that Wayne will decide to print my Deep Frontier article...i want my futurist work on undersea colonies to see the light of day...

Rockwolf66 · Unread post by **Rockwolf66** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:04 am

Me I have to like the settings possibilities.

Then again I am related to Sailors, Marines, and Royal Marine Commando's so I have a bias.

As far as playing Rifts: Underseas, you really should see the look on player's faces when a ship larger than there's just vanishes off the radar durring a storm and doesn't come back. it really does shove alot of respect into players.

Kagashi · Unread post by **Kagashi** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:37 pm

Underseas is one of my fav books too, however the nail was hit right on the head when it was mentioned that there is just so much more to do on land in Rifts.

Underseas has only 2 books on the topic (Underseas and CS Navy), with a smattering of random info in other books. Thats out of one main book, 8 source books, and 30 world books!

A mere 5% of printed material is on what goes on under the water. Of course most game will start on land because thats the most fleshed out (North America specificaly at that)!

Mutants in Orbit suffers from the same fate, seeing its only HALF of a thin book with a smatter of other info here in there in other books.

Heck, I even have a hard time finding folks who want to play in Europe, and that has 7 sources of info (including Underseas and Africa). Most folks just want to play in North America and thats it.

But yes, Underseas is a great book. I like it a lot. The Sea Titans were a bit over powered, but what wasnt in the CJ Carella era? ...and I welcomed the change!

I even enjoyed the thought that Sea borne mammels would become intelligent in the future and can pilot power armor!

Underseas gave us the first glimps into what Pre-Rifts tech was like with the New Navy, introduced the Horune Pirates, gave us great Splugorth ships, and expanded on the Gargoyle War in Europe. CJ is a genius.

bigbobsr6000 · Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:53 pm

Unknown_Nobody wrote:
Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:For the Record: Underseas is one of my favorite books.

~ Josh

I second this

I triple this

Colt47 · Unread post by **Colt47** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:03 am

We need a Sea King with boom boxes playing the Sailor Song while going past some CS patrols. I think every single one of them would raise an eyebrow. :lol:

Nxla666 · Unread post by **Nxla666** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:21 pm

I like the book, and most of my problems with it have already been mentioned so I wont bother.

glitterboy2098 · Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:08 pm

ak-73 wrote:
And still it sounds more combat-oriented and less about socializing. I could be wrong though, never read the book.

Alex

thus why i call it half a setting. you have lots of guns, ships, and monsters to fight, but not much in the way of groups to just talk to.

also why i wrote an article on undersea communities, and have an article on surface cultures planned.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:48 pm

I love this setting! I love to use as much as I can from it in my game.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:04 pm

That seems to be common in the midwest. I ran into that before with other groups.

Mech-Viper Prime · Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:07 pm

i dont hate it, i'm just very disappointed with parts of it

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:02 pm

People always seem to like different parts in various books. It's seems to be the way it always is.

Josh Sinsapaugh · Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:04 pm

Aramanthus wrote:People always seem to like different parts in various books. It's seems to be the way it always is.

Always?

I like every part of Delta Blues...

~ Josh

Mech-Viper Prime · Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:28 pm

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:
Aramanthus wrote:People always seem to like different parts in various books. It's seems to be the way it always is.

Always?

I like every part of Delta Blues...

~ Josh

i heard KS had to rewrite the entire thing (Delta Blues)because the freelancer was so bad at it

j/k

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:35 pm

I know what you mean Josh! I'm looking forward to seeing your book in print!

Josh Sinsapaugh · Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:55 pm

Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:
Aramanthus wrote:People always seem to like different parts in various books. It's seems to be the way it always is.

Always?

I like every part of Delta Blues...

~ Josh
i heard KS had to rewrite the entire thing (Delta Blues)because the freelancer was so bad at it j/k

John Philpott's writing wasn't that bad!

(j/k, nothing but love Jack!)

~ Josh

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:28 pm

Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:
Mech-Viper Prime wrote:
Josh Sinsapaugh wrote:
Aramanthus wrote:People always seem to like different parts in various books. It's seems to be the way it always is.

Always?

I like every part of Delta Blues...

~ Josh
i heard KS had to rewrite the entire thing (Delta Blues)because the freelancer was so bad at it j/k

John Philpott's writing wasn't that bad!

(j/k, nothing but love Jack!)

~ Josh

That wasn't the freelancer ANY of us were thinking. ;-)

The Galactus Kid · Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:31 pm

I'm going to return to the original title of the thread. Why do so many people hate on underseas?

because it sucks.

Josh Sinsapaugh · Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:49 pm

The Galactus Kid wrote:I'm going to return to the original title of the thread. Why do so many people hate on underseas?

because it sucks.

That's what sh-

No, no, I don't want to get banned...

----

Seriously though: Why, B.A.? Mind elaborating?

~ Josh

Lucas · Unread post by **Lucas** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:32 am

The Galactus Kid wrote:I'm going to return to the original title of the thread. Why do so many people hate on underseas?

because it sucks.

bad bad bad Monkey respect my authority.....

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:28 pm

That is your opinion Galactus, not the opinion of all. Certainly not mine!

Xar · Unread post by **Xar** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:07 pm

I used to think that it was boring and milquetoast, and in fact sold it many years ago.

Then Chaos Earth came out. I've now re-purchased it again and am using it as source material for that. Dolphin magic, however, remains not interesting.

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:49 pm

Cool! Sounds great to me!

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:59 pm

I really like the Killer whale one!

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:06 pm

Because not everybody remembers "My Friend Flipper' and the subsequent desire to see Flipper tear that stupid kid a new one...Like having Lassie do a Cujo on Timmy....

Aramanthus · Unread post by **Aramanthus** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:12 pm

Ok the talking dolphin.......That I didn't find to amusing. :shock:

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:13 pm

Admiral Greer wrote:
The Galactus Kid wrote:I'm going to return to the original title of the thread. Why do so many people hate on underseas?

because it sucks.

Everyone hates dolphin power armor...

Again, I don't.

The Galactus Kid · Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:15 pm

I understand that my opinion is not the opinion of everybody. But the topic was why do people hate on it, and based on my opinion, I feel that people hate on underseas because it sucks. Do I own it? Hell yeah I do. Do I use it in my game? No. My players really never have a need to go to the ocean. If they did, would I use it? Parts. But for the most part, I would ignore most of it, unless its source material that I have to use for continuity's sake in my writing.

Kelorin · Unread post by **Kelorin** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:09 pm

A million and one animal shaped D-Bees, Human mutants that live off of P.P.E., Alien Intelligences with transgalactic empires, are all OK, but hyper-intelligent dolphin mutants set you off of Underseas. Seems a weird distinction to me.

Personally, I try to work Underseas into land based campaigns whenever possible. The Horune, pirates, and even Reachers of the Deep could technically show up anywhere. Sea Titans work perfectly well in land-based campaigns. There's Operation Sea Storm for the NGR, & those Splugorth ships are probably helping to a limited degree to keep old One Eye's east coast colonies supplied, while hauling back shiploads of slaves.
No one ever said you have to use every single part of the book all the time. I'm sure there is plenty of stuff that we all throw out from other land based Worldbooks too.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:15 pm

Kelorin wrote:Personally, I try to work Underseas into land based campaigns whenever possible. The Horune, pirates, and even Reachers of the Deep could technically show up anywhere.

Sit down with Google Earth and look at ranges on the Reachers of the Deep... they have a lot of range to deal with, but it doesn't mean they're going to actually going to reach "everywhere".

Kelorin · Unread post by **Kelorin** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:38 pm

Mark Hall wrote:
Kelorin wrote:Personally, I try to work Underseas into land based campaigns whenever possible. The Horune, pirates, and even Reachers of the Deep could technically show up anywhere.

Sit down with Google Earth and look at ranges on the Reachers of the Deep... they have a lot of range to deal with, but it doesn't mean they're going to actually going to reach "everywhere".

OK, how about 'Almost' anywhere.

Rimmerdal · Unread post by **Rimmerdal** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:40 pm

Kelorin wrote:A million and one animal shaped D-Bees, Human mutants that live off of P.P.E., Alien Intelligences with transgalactic empires, are all OK, but hyper-intelligent dolphin mutants set you off of Underseas. Seems a weird distinction to me.

Personally, I try to work Underseas into land based campaigns whenever possible. The Horune, pirates, and even Reachers of the Deep could technically show up anywhere. Sea Titans work perfectly well in land-based campaigns. There's Operation Sea Storm for the NGR, & those Splugorth ships are probably helping to a limited degree to keep old One Eye's east coast colonies supplied, while hauling back shiploads of slaves.
No one ever said you have to use every single part of the book all the time. I'm sure there is plenty of stuff that we all throw out from other land based Worldbooks too.

He's not a fan of Seaquest...I'm alitte bothered by Dolphin PC's mostly because a Dolphin can't adventure on land, and adventurers go anywhere. It's not personel...but it seems limitating to be a Fish-Mammal.

But the other races in armour can be fun. I might even try the salvage expert OCC.

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why does everyone hate on underseas?

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