Glitter Boys spending an action to 'plant' pylons

[Starmage21]

Its not in RUE, but I know its in the previous core book. Has it been intentionally removed or left out and needing to be fixed via errata?

*edit*
I apologize if this has been asked before, but search came up short. My search-fu is usually pretty strong too ><

[drewkitty ~..~]

Try looking in 'Free Quebec", that is practicly a GB handbook. Even the RMB does not have any time restrictions on the GB's anchoring system.

The RMB only says that they automaticly deploy, so it can be infered that any penalty APM would be taken after the fact after firing.

[Killer Cyborg]

Its not in RUE, but I know its in the previous core book. Has it been intentionally removed or left out and needing to be fixed via errata?

To the best of my knowledge, which is very extensive, that has NEVER been a rule.

It's just something that people have randomly assumed since the game came out.

What the books actually say is that the pylons automatically engage when the gun is fired.

[glitterboy2098]

the pylons should only be an action to deploy if not as part of a gunshot. retracting the pylons should also take an action.

[Starmage21]

Thanks for clearing that up for me guys.

[Talavar]

Yeah, the pylons taking an action to deploy is not a rule, Killer Cyborg's right.

[GT]

From what I remember, the pylons deploy automatically when the main BOOM GUN is going to be used.

Now intentionally engaging pylons with out the Boom Gun going in to action probably requires an action. Like to stay on top of a moving death heads transport or some thing.

[The Galactus Kid]

I love the GB, but I'm still up in the air about this. I know that it should take an action to deploy and retract, but I don't know if I've ever actually played it that way.

[Ahulane]

Gonna go with Killer Cyborg on this, doesn't use an action and considering how the pylons deploy into the ground is the biggest clue.

Pg. 222 of old RMB

"The pylons and the jets fly into action the
moment the Boom Gun is fired."

"Telescoping Anti-Sway Pylons (with laser drill)"

"Anti-Sway Pylons and Toe Hook are activated just before gun is to be fired."

That there says that it takes fractions of seconds for the pylons to deploy, as well as the jets on the back. The same would be true for them to retract. However...the book does note that the pylons need to be activated or they will not deploy and the gun will not fire.

"Gun will not fire if pylons (one in each leg) are not activated."

Sooo yeah, according to the book its automatic as long as they are activated...which would probably be something that 90% of pilots would turn on when first starting up the PA's systems. Just thought I'd throw that in there for ya.

[Mouser13]

Yes, and their is nothing to stop them from being used has a weapon and
breaching a APC. Sorry that was from someone else post a long time ago.

[Danger]

It's not a rule that I can ever recall seeing.

[The Galactus Kid]

Breaching an APC would take quite sometime. I remember reading somewhere that the laser only does a small ammount of damage and would require multiuple atempts to plant on the hull of a spacecraft of APC.

[Killer Cyborg]

Breaching an APC would take quite sometime. I remember reading somewhere that the laser only does a small ammount of damage and would require multiuple atempts to plant on the hull of a spacecraft of APC.

Yup.
It's in Mutants in Orbit, and in Underseas, I believe.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Yes, and their is nothing to stop them from being used has a weapon and
breaching a APC. Sorry that was from someone else post a long time ago.

In the round the table group I was in, one time the GB was standing on top of a bunker and used his anchors to drill into it and kill the ppl there.

[Starmage21]

The part about drilling into MDC structures is in the RUE as well. Takes 1d4+1 tries for them penetrate.

[Greeter]

Some people got the impression the pylons had to be planted before firing the gun, and stayed planted until intentionally retracting them. There are some ambiguous passages from the books giving weight to their reasoning.

Anti-Sway Pylons and Toe Hook are activated just before gun is to be fired. Gun will not fire if pylons (one- each leg) are not activated.

That is an odd passage if the pylons are activated when the trigger is pulled like it says on the next page:

The pylons and the jets fly into action the moment the Boom Gun is fired.

No, the Glitter Boy is not knocked down or staggered because of the suit's weight, the anti-sway pylons and recoil thrusters. The same is true of most giant robots 12 feet or bigger.

Woah, why would the anti-sway pylons even be mentioned if they are only down for the instance of firing? Why keep them down if it doesn't take any extra time to put them down? Ofcourse the recoil thrusters shouldn't even come into play as they are for handling the boom gun.

Worse yet, the Glitter Boy must stop, sink pylons into the ground and engage the jet boosters of its recoil suppression system in order to fire the boom gun with any measure of accuracy.

This is another odd passage if an action isn't necessary. It goes on to mention how the system "engages in an instant" but these are the type of things giving people the impression an action is necessary.

[Ahulane]

Some people got the impression the pylons had to be planted before firing the gun, and stayed planted until intentionally retracting them. There are some ambiguous passages from the books giving weight to their reasoning.

The way I see it is that the pylons and jet thrusters are systems that need to be turned on prior to use and once activated you must meet certain requirements for them to activate. I feel that PA of any kind is similar to aircraft in the fact that some systems need to be warmed up prior to "take-off." Yes they are automatic responses for certain conditions, but when used in means other than their intended purpose, then it would most likely take an action...in the case of using pylons to drill through the hull of a vehicle to attack people inside.

In the instance of why would one keep down the pylons if it doesn't take any extra time to put them down...for those individuals who aren't fireing on the run there may be some kind of feature/button/switch or what have you, that allows you to keep the pylons down if say you are acting as artillery. Other than that, yeah, its largely useless to keep them planted as a PC since most likely they will be moving around alot while attempting to fire the gun. I think the best picture for the glitterboy IMO is the one from the Mechanoid sourcebook where the GB has just downed like 2 wasps (I think) and was fireing at another one that was circling him.

[Killer Cyborg]

Some people got the impression the pylons had to be planted before firing the gun, and stayed planted until intentionally retracting them. There are some ambiguous passages from the books giving weight to their reasoning.

Anti-Sway Pylons and Toe Hook are activated just before gun is to be fired. Gun will not fire if pylons (one- each leg) are not activated.

That is an odd passage if the pylons are activated when the trigger is pulled like it says on the next page:

The pylons and the jets fly into action the moment the Boom Gun is fired.

Because if the automatic deployment system (or they pylons themselves) are damaged or otherwise malfunctioning, then it will stop the Boom Gun from firing.

No, the Glitter Boy is not knocked down or staggered because of the suit's weight, the anti-sway pylons and recoil thrusters. The same is true of most giant robots 12 feet or bigger.

Woah, why would the anti-sway pylons even be mentioned if they are only down for the instance of firing?

Not sure what you're asking here.

Why keep them down if it doesn't take any extra time to put them down?

Why not?

Of course the recoil thrusters shouldn't even come into play as they are for handling the boom gun.

Again, unsure what you're saying here.

Worse yet, the Glitter Boy must stop, sink pylons into the ground and engage the jet boosters of its recoil suppression system in order to fire the boom gun with any measure of accuracy.

This is another odd passage if an action isn't necessary. It goes on to mention how the system "engages in an instant" but these are the type of things giving people the impression an action is necessary.

The key word in the above passage is "Stop."
All it means is that the GB can't shoot on the move.

What we have when we sift through the books is:
-Passages that clearly state that the pylons automatically and instantaneously deploy when the gun is fired.
-Some passages that are vague enough that they might be interpreted otherwise.

Clearly stated rules beat vague possible interpretations every single time.

[The Beast]

No, the Glitter Boy is not knocked down or staggered because of the suit's weight, the anti-sway pylons and recoil thrusters. The same is true of most giant robots 12 feet or bigger.

Woah, why would the anti-sway pylons even be mentioned if they are only down for the instance of firing?

Not sure what you're asking here.

What he's asking is if the anti-sway pylons & recoil thrusters only activate when the Boom Gun is fired, why would the GB not be capable of being knocked down? If they're only activated when the Boom Gun is fired, then the GB should be able to be knocked over from a hard enough hit.

[Killer Cyborg]

No, the Glitter Boy is not knocked down or staggered because of the suit's weight, the anti-sway pylons and recoil thrusters. The same is true of most giant robots 12 feet or bigger.

Woah, why would the anti-sway pylons even be mentioned if they are only down for the instance of firing?

Not sure what you're asking here.

What he's asking is if the anti-sway pylons & recoil thrusters only activate when the Boom Gun is fired, why would the GB not be capable of being knocked down? If they're only activated when the Boom Gun is fired, then the GB should be able to be knocked over from a hard enough hit.

Okay, so he's asking something that doesn't seem to address anything anybody said, and that doesn't make much sense.

[Greeter]

No, the Glitter Boy is not knocked down or staggered because of the suit's weight, the anti-sway pylons and recoil thrusters. The same is true of most giant robots 12 feet or bigger.

Woah, why would the anti-sway pylons even be mentioned if they are only down for the instance of firing?

Not sure what you're asking here.

What he's asking is if the anti-sway pylons & recoil thrusters only activate when the Boom Gun is fired, why would the GB not be capable of being knocked down? If they're only activated when the Boom Gun is fired, then the GB should be able to be knocked over from a hard enough hit.

Okay, so he's asking something that doesn't seem to address anything anybody said, and that doesn't make much sense.

It was more of a rhetorical question. It goes back to the thought of it taking an action to plant the pylons. If the pylons take an action then the pilots will keep them down in a fixed position to keep from losing valuable time. If it doesn't take an action, then why keep them down thus affecting knockback? (<-- Another Rhetorical question ). The quoted material suggests Glitterboys will have their pylons down in combat even though doing so would cost the Glitterboy its ability to dodge and roll with a punch.

[Killer Cyborg]

It was more of a rhetorical question. It goes back to the thought of it taking an action to plant the pylons. If the pylons take an action then the pilots will keep them down in a fixed position to keep from losing valuable time. If it doesn't take an action, then why keep them down thus affecting knockback? (<-- Another Rhetorical question ). The quoted material suggests Glitterboys will have their pylons down in combat even though doing so would cost the Glitterboy its ability to dodge and roll with a punch.

It may be rhetorical, but it's still worth answering.
Kind of.

The pylons fly into action the instant the gun is fired, but I don't know that this means that they instantly retract.
Most likely, they stay down until the GB is done firing.

Other than that, I'm not sure where you're getting the "why keep them down thus affecting knockback" bit.
Keeping them down is one thing that keeps the GB from being knocked back when the gun is fired. Kinda the point of the pylons.

Or are you talking about the GB getting knocked back/down by other things?
If so, I don't know what passage you're referring to, because AFAIK the book only discusses the recoil from the Boom Gun.

[The Beast]

Or are you talking about the GB getting knocked back/down by other things?
If so, I don't know what passage you're referring to, because AFAIK the book only discusses the recoil from the Boom Gun.

I think you have a virus effecting your logic boards. He got the question from the first SB1, and the question is about knockdown from damage.

[Killer Cyborg]

Or are you talking about the GB getting knocked back/down by other things?
If so, I don't know what passage you're referring to, because AFAIK the book only discusses the recoil from the Boom Gun.

I think you have a virus effecting your logic boards. He got the question from the first SB1, and the question is about knockdown from damage.

And he quoted the answer but not the question.
So that leaves me guessing what the hell he's talking about.
I'm a borg, not a psychic.

[The Beast]

Or are you talking about the GB getting knocked back/down by other things?
If so, I don't know what passage you're referring to, because AFAIK the book only discusses the recoil from the Boom Gun.

I think you have a virus effecting your logic boards. He got the question from the first SB1, and the question is about knockdown from damage.

And he quoted the answer but not the question.
So that leaves me guessing what the hell he's talking about.
I'm a borg, not a psychic.

Good point.

[Thinyser]

Ok So understanding that the GB must stand in place in order to fire the boomgun. How fast does a 1.2 ton vehicle stop when moving at say a speed of 30 miles per hour (1/2 the GB max running speed)?

Would you say that it takes an action to stop before you are motionless enough to plant the pylons?

[Killer Cyborg]

Ok So understanding that the GB must stand in place in order to fire the boomgun. How fast does a 1.2 ton vehicle stop when moving at say a speed of 30 miles per hour (1/2 the GB max running speed)?

Good question.
If there's an answer, it's probably in N&S or HU, in the Vehicle Combat rules.

Would you say that it takes an action to stop before you are motionless enough to plant the pylons?

If you're going faster than a jog, yeah, I'd say it would take an action.

[Danger]

Would you say that it takes an action to stop before you are motionless enough to plant the pylons?

If you're going faster than a jog, yeah, I'd say it would take an action.

Agreed.

[The Beast]

Would you say that it takes an action to stop before you are motionless enough to plant the pylons?

If you're going faster than a jog, yeah, I'd say it would take an action.

Agreed.

Same

[Danger]

Would you say that it takes an action to stop before you are motionless enough to plant the pylons?

If you're going faster than a jog, yeah, I'd say it would take an action.

Agreed.

Same

Copycat.

[The Galactus Kid]

I would say so, logically, but I don't know if I would make someone do it in game.

[The Beast]

Would you say that it takes an action to stop before you are motionless enough to plant the pylons?

If you're going faster than a jog, yeah, I'd say it would take an action.

Agreed.

Same

Copycat.

Agreed.

[The Galactus Kid]

I'm going to nuke this thread from orbit.

[The Beast]

I'm going to nuke this thread from orbit.

But that's not the only way to be sure in this case.

[Dog_O_War]

(this is in response to the moving glitterboy question)
The book mentions nothing about requiring an action to stop though. The consiquiences are obvious, but the rules offer nothing. While it states that the pylons are instantly ejected the moment the gun is fired, it does not state that they instantly retract.

Would it not make sense that the pylons shoot out instantly (or as an action if manually over-ridden), but require a command word or other action to retract?

Also, where does it state that the gun will not fire if the pylons are not deployed?

[Danger]

(this is in response to the moving glitterboy question)
The book mentions nothing about requiring an action to stop though.* The consiquiences are obvious, but the rules offer nothing. While it states that the pylons are instantly ejected the moment the gun is fired, it does not state that they instantly retract.

Would it not make sense that the pylons shoot out instantly (or as an action if manually over-ridden), but require a command word or other action to retract?

Also, where does it state that the gun will not fire if the pylons are not deployed?**

* That was just applying a little common sense & even less physics.

** I don't have my books (at work) so I can't help you out there.

[Tinker Dragoon]

This message has been moved to the Rifts Forum, where the topic is more applicable and appropriate. If you have a problem with how this post was handled please direct all inquires to deific.nmi@gmail.com, including the url to the post in question.

[Killer Cyborg]

(this is in response to the moving glitterboy question)
The book mentions nothing about requiring an action to stop though. The consiquiences are obvious, but the rules offer nothing. While it states that the pylons are instantly ejected the moment the gun is fired, it does not state that they instantly retract.

Would it not make sense that the pylons shoot out instantly (or as an action if manually over-ridden), but require a command word or other action to retract?

Sure, but not an action.
If it took an action, the books would mention it.

Personally, and this is 100% my imagination here, I say that the boom gun has a two-phase trigger. Pull the trigger halfway in, the pylons fire into the ground. The pylons stay out only as long as the trigger is depressed halfway or more.
So if the GB expects to need to shoot for a while, he can pull the trigger all the way, firing the pylons and the gun, then let the trigger back to that halfway click, so that the pylons stay in. Just to save a faction of a second of time.
If he things one shot will do it, or expects to have to move quickly, pull the trigger fully and release fully: pylons fire, gun fires, pylons retract, all in one action.

Also, where does it state that the gun will not fire if the pylons are not deployed?

I don't believe that it does.

[The Beast]

I think the problem arose from the last paragraph on the left side of page 15 in the original CB1.

[Killer Cyborg]

I think the problem arose from the last paragraph on the left side of page 15 in the original CB1.

Which says....?

[The Beast]

I think the problem arose from the last paragraph on the left side of page 15 in the original CB1.

Which says....?

It doesn't say anything, you have to read it.

[tundro]

Does it say anywhere that the pylons can be deployed WITHOUT the boom gun being used? I don't have the books here, and I can't remember if that has ever been stated. I always thought of them working in conjunction WITH the boom gun....automatically deployed when the trigger is depressed and automatically retracted when the trigger is released. KC's dual phase trigger would also work really well for keeping them deployed for as long as the trigger was held in the second phase. I also imagine a manual override would have been built in to be able to deploy them without the gun. In any case, I don't think I would require an action for the deployment or retraction, just because of the speed in which they operate.

[Killer Cyborg]

I think the problem arose from the last paragraph on the left side of page 15 in the original CB1.

Which says....?

It doesn't say anything, you have to read it.

What, and get the CS after me?

[The Beast]

Paraphrasing from CB1 here:

Worse yet, the Glitter Boy must stop, sink pylons into the ground and engage the jet boosters of its Recoil Suppersion System in order to fire with any accuracy. Any firing after the first (unless the RSS is engaged) is considered wild. However, once the RSS is engaged the GB can fire one devastating burst after another. But this makes the unit vulnerable to 2 fast moving, armored opponets moving in oposite circular motions, or from 2 or more positions.

As for the Boom Gun not firing if the pylons aren't activated, the answer is found on page 222 of the RMB. It won't fire.

[R Ditto]

Doesn't the same book (CB1) also turn around and give penalties associated with firing the Boom Gun without anchoring first?

[The Beast]

No, just the RSS.

[Killer Cyborg]

The Recoil Suppression System has two components:
1. The Telescoping Anti-Sway Pylons
2. Recoil Dampening Thrusters

CB1, p. 9 says:
It counts as shooting wild for "The subsequent blasts after the firs tburst form a Glitter Boy's boom gun if the Glitter Boy is NOT secured to the ground (the recoil suppression systems must be engaged; thrusters and pylons). If the Glitter Boy is secured by a properly engaged recoil suppression system, the boom gun fires like a normal burst weapon."

[Omega6]

I would say that stopping from a jog in a glitter boy would not take an action since anchors drilling 4.5 feet into the ground would stop you instantly whether you want to or not. Although there might be some whiplash involved fot the pilot

Seriously though, I don't think the pylons take an action to deploy or retract when used automatically. Any time the term "automatic" is used in any of Palladium's games, it means that it does not use an attack/action. Pylons can be used manually as well, when the pilot want to attack with them, or when he/she has no intention of moving (such as when riding on Free Quebec's GB6-96 Glitter Boy Transport).

[Thinyser]

The Recoil Suppression System has two components:
1. The Telescoping Anti-Sway Pylons
2. Recoil Dampening Thrusters

CB1, p. 9 says:
It counts as shooting wild for "The subsequent blasts after the firs tburst form a Glitter Boy's boom gun if the Glitter Boy is NOT secured to the ground (the recoil suppression systems must be engaged; thrusters and pylons). If the Glitter Boy is secured by a properly engaged recoil suppression system, the boom gun fires like a normal burst weapon."

Ok Now even I am confused here.

Can sombody please explain what a normal bust weapon fires like?

[Killer Cyborg]

The Recoil Suppression System has two components:
1. The Telescoping Anti-Sway Pylons
2. Recoil Dampening Thrusters

CB1, p. 9 says:
It counts as shooting wild for "The subsequent blasts after the firs tburst form a Glitter Boy's boom gun if the Glitter Boy is NOT secured to the ground (the recoil suppression systems must be engaged; thrusters and pylons). If the Glitter Boy is secured by a properly engaged recoil suppression system, the boom gun fires like a normal burst weapon."

Ok Now even I am confused here.

Can sombody please explain what a normal bust weapon fires like?

Each pull of the trigger fires off one burst.