Butterfly rifts

[The Galactus Kid]

I think it depends on your accepted vision of time travel for Rifts. Transdimension TMNT (possibly the BEST Palladium book ever written) ascribes to a coil theory of time travel which accepts that there is one constant stream in which you can move forward and back in the same line. The method that you discuss is the Grandfather theory of time travel. Its the method that is used in the Terminator movies and the Sarah COnnor Chronicles. The problem with the grad father theory is the inevitable paradox. If you go back in time to kill your grandfather, then you could have never been born in order to go back in time and kill your grandfather. Or in Rifts terms, your Glitterboy pilot goes back in time to stop the Great Cataclysm and succedes, therefore altering the timeline so that it is impossible for him to be in a position to go back in time and stop the cataclysm. Now there are alternate history theories where each decision that we make creates another timeline, or reality so, in essence there are COUNTLESS timelines. How would your character know which timeline was the right one? This is evidenced in the old TV show Sliders with Jerry O'Connel (sp?). There are a couple of freelancers that are working on alternate timeline books for RIFTS to use as dimension books too.

I think that the idea would make for a great game, but you and your GM would have to decide what theories work in your game. I hope this helps.

[The Galactus Kid]

ah. He beat me to it. Either way, I hope that this information is helpful.

[Armorlord]

When it comes to trying to reach the Golden Age and such, I prefer the blurb in the Megaversal Builder that says travelers attempting to reach the Time of Chaos or anytime before get deflected into the future, parallel Earths, and other worlds due to the incredible temporal and dimensional disruption.
If you want an extra head-trip, and an idea of just HOW extreme the disruptions had been, consider the notion that large threads of pre-Cataclysm history didn't 'exist' as such before the Cataclysm! That certain elements from the parallels around the world we would know as Rifts Earth were fully integrated retroactively into the world's history during it's alignment into a megaversal nexus. Does anyone remember where Kevin brought that up in?

In TMNT terms, imagine someone injected a high pressure line into the garden hose, increasing the TE pressure dramatically as well as straightening out the coils for quite a distance. Enough force that the hose bulged and ripped so much that it nearly tore itself apart under the fury.
Continuing the analogy on a Megaversal scale, imagine all these various hoses floating about for the different dimensions, with parallels floating closest, with natural and artificial links and a few weak spots. Since TE only flows forward, the 'pull' of the high pressure stream at the Cataclysm created enough of a low pressure zone behind it to pull in some backwash through those connections. On the 'forward' side of the cataclysm, you have a great rush causing push and pull on the various connections and tears, along with swirling eddies, that continues at pressures normally seen much closer to the creation of some dimensions throughout the Time of Chaos. Even then, it's an oversimplification against the backdrop of all the spatial, dimensional, and mystical disruptions as well.

If using Transdimentional TMNT style, travel to there and before is impossible due to the straightening and realignment of the flows mucking up any attempts to go to previous Twists, fouling up any attempts to calculate correctly with J-scale forces of indeterminate beginning and end.

There are indications that time travel is possible on 'present' Rifts Earth, though. Particularly the two-way time holes to the future that occur in the Yucatan vortices, along with the usual rift, leyline storm, and triangle phenomenon. And there is still the 'hard way' of time-travel, but going against the flow is still an incredibly hard and slow process.

As for the effects of time travel, as far as I've been able to tell the Megaverse favors the single stream per dimension with the occasional related parallel dimensions nearby (whether these parallels are examples of parallel evolution or actually split for other flows at a point hasn't been covered directly). If you cause an effect in the past of your stream it will affect the same present that you are from. Though given Rifts Earth's relative instability, strong enough disruptions might cause 'natural' Patching and even Twisting with the strong flows smoothing out minor disruption and shearing off major obstructions. It may also be possible to prevent temporal changes from affecting yourself by hiding in a different timestream until all the changes have passed the time you want to be in, although you may run the risk of having to deal with a version of yourself native to the new timeline when you get there.

..perhaps I spend too much time studying trans-dimensional/temporal interactions. Then again, half the current group met over reading Michio Kaku and the first thing I ever ran was a free-form trans-dimensional romp that grew out of 'What if' questions we entertained ourselves with. Man, that brings back memories.. Now that I've distracted myself, I'll stop for a bit. I've probably missed going over something, but I'm sure someone will point it out.

Now Buzz Off! I've got a Third Millennium to look after!

[Rimmerdal]

does any one else feel stupid reading this thread?

Only slightly...But I think I get the idea. Than I'm making a Dark universe where the Heckler is a Hero and one where the the Republican Army (NEMA) still stands in there shiny Glitterboys guarding a darker, imperial Rifts-Earth.

[Shadyslug]

I like explanation that was given in the recent Time Machine movie...

[Daniel Stoker]

I like explanation that was given in the recent Time Machine movie...

What was that?


Daniel Stoker

[Armorlord]

I like explanation that was given in the recent Time Machine movie...

What was that?


Daniel Stoker

Main thing I recall from that was the universe auto-correcting to stop grandfather effects against the time-machine/traveler. He designed and built the time-machine to save his love's life, but each time he tried she still died, even in far different and increasingly unlikely ways, because if he succeeded he never would have built the time-machine. Similar to the Patching effect, but more proactive in protecting the means of transport, though it seemed other poking at the timeline was fine.

[Rahmota]

Hmm all good ideas already done. Hope mine doesnt sound too wierd/stupid as to how I have handled time travel and will probably do so again if it comes up.

There is no way of travelling backwards in time. The tiem travellor still travels forwards in their perspective, always, just that forward is sometimes in a direction contra to time. (I hate trying to illustrate this without a dry erase board)

Imagine time as a two lane highway with all the cars goign the same direction in one lane. Thats the way time works. But someone pulls out and does a Uturn and drives down the other lane going the other direction. They are from their perspective still goign forwards just in the other direction. When they pull back into the normal travel lane awith another U turn they are goign forwards like everyone else again. They can make whatever cahnges and create all sorts of paradox they want to as the time stream riples back up stream to where they where.

They then pull out and go forwards overtakign everyone else to where they where supposed to be or further forward. If they killed their grandfather then they no longer officially exist throu the databases and legal records and such but a DNA test would still show them to be related to their grandmother.

Yeah I know some paradoxes and loop holes you could fly a deathstar through but it worked the few times I've had osmeone able to time hop. And I may not be explaining it very well but maybe you can get the idea.

[Ahulane]

I personally only allow time travel in the form of Fade Towns which vanish for hundreds of years or more at a time.

[Defender_X]

Considering the nature of the rifts, it's possible to allow time travel, even allow players to try to change things, but not really. The coming of the rifts will still happen, the dark age will still happen, the setting up to 101 PA will still happen. All they can change is saving some more lives from being lost. At best a minor victory, and an entertaining night around the gaming table.