Question??

[sasha]

Player A makes successful roll, then Player B cannot challenge as he is already charmed/impressed.

[SkyeFyre]

Player A makes successful roll, then Player B cannot challenge as he is already charmed/impressed.

That would be my answer too.

[sasha]

You could do a mind control type save. But the resistance is built into the chance for success.

[SkyeFyre]

According to the rules as printed there are NO saves vs charm/impress and trust/intimidate.

[wolfsgrin]

What I do is equate PB to the ME bonus (like what they did with perception) Then the character who is peforming a charm/impress rolls a D20 with the bonus added against a roll from target, who also rolls a D20 with his ME bonus added.
You could also divide the PB percentage bonus by 15 or 10 and add that as a bonus to the roll off.
Basically you resolve this like combat. Seems to flow well (as long as these numbers are figured before game) and nobody feels cheated because they didn't get a save.

[Dustin Fireblade]

What I do is equate PB to the ME bonus (like what they did with perception) Then the character who is peforming a charm/impress rolls a D20 with the bonus added against a roll from target, who also rolls a D20 with his ME bonus added.

Basically you resolve this like combat. Seems to flow well (as long as these numbers are figured before game) and nobody feels cheated because they didn't get a save.

That's a darn good idea.

[Dustin Fireblade]

According to the rules as printed there are NO saves vs charm/impress and trust/intimidate.

Which doesn't make much sense - you can save vs. Horror Factor or Awe Factor

[sasha]

Horror is something different from stunning, even shocking charisma.

Or at least it should be.

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. As stated, there are no saves vs. a high P.B. or a high M.A. Of course, the rules for how they work is never stated definitively in the first place (a case can be made for M.A., but that's not what this is about). I'll give my comment on two aspects. First, there were comments above saying that Player 2 can't use his talents to respond. With this, I disagree. For an example, let's say you see a woman (or a man if you are female) who you think is extremely attractive. Do you A) try to impress her (or him) yourself and make them like you back or B) figure thereby give up all hope? Yes, I realize a person may become totally flustered, but not everyone would (I typically trust players to role-play such things appropriately depending on personality).

Now, I'll also say I found it interesting that one man was trying to charm another man with looks, but as long as preferences are right it should work just fine. As long as a man is attracted to other men, I see no problem with the attempt. However, from a sense point of view, if a male is only physically attracted to females, then he's not as likely to be wowed by a good looking man in the same way. Sorry, this was kind of a side note that side tracked me (and not a point I originally intended to make).

Anyways, on to my second point (my original second point). Personally, when the issue does come up (players have rarely used it in my games though expect in rare circumstances when it's important, otherwise it's just role-played), I treat the % as the saving throw. That means the victim gets to roll, not the one trying to use P.B. or M.A. Example: Player A tries to use the really high P.B. to influence Player B. Player B rolls % and if he (or she) rolls over Player A's skill, then the character saved (and if rolled under then the character failed). In this way, I use it as a save instead of a skill.

Again, as a G.M., I also figure in personalities of the characters. This means a character who prefers personality over beauty would be more susceptible to M.A. but more resistant against P.B. Similarly, a character who chases every pretty skirt would be fall victim to a high P.B. but wouldn't batt an eye towards the not so cute girl with a high M.A. (at least not beyond a friend). Of course, I don't usually use all the rules as written anyways. Hopefully this gives some help, or at least a view point to consider. Thank you for your time and please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Dustin Fireblade]

Horror is something different from stunning, even shocking charisma.

Or at least it should be.

Well in this it would be the Awe Factor - which if you can save vs that, then you should be able to save vs Charm/Impress.

[wolfsgrin]

What I do is equate PB to the ME bonus (like what they did with perception) Then the character who is peforming a charm/impress rolls a D20 with the bonus added against a roll from target, who also rolls a D20 with his ME bonus added.

Basically you resolve this like combat. Seems to flow well (as long as these numbers are figured before game) and nobody feels cheated because they didn't get a save.

That's a darn good idea.

thanks. it really has worked well. If you use it, let me know how it worked out and if your group liked it.

[sasha]

Horror is something different from stunning, even shocking charisma.

Or at least it should be.

Well in this it would be the Awe Factor - which if you can save vs that, then you should be able to save vs Charm/Impress.

There's an Awe Factor? Didn't know that. I take it all bak.

[KillWatch]

Certainly Not Canon

I have substats like Perception, Willpower, Sensitivity, Charisma
But to make it a bit simpler, MA or PB x5 versus MEx5 representing their willpower.

If you want to get a bit more technical, you could take the success of the charmer and turn it into a penalty for the defender.
Say your MAx5 is 100%. You roll 60%. You make it by 40%
Your target is weak minded to begin with having a lowly ME of 9, x5=45%
45-40=5%, You are so charming or attractive that the unfocesed and weak willed individual has little to no chance to succeed, but this is still 5% better than no chance at all.

Now as for the officer;
is he gay? 10% chance
is the prisoner even his type? PB or MA = chance. PB 15=15% chance

Ah I love palladium you can rig it to be your (female dog in heat)

[Armorlord]

Recently in a game I run, the question came up that I could not find an answer to. Here's the situation:

Male Player A: A mutant with angelic beauty (Really High PB), attemps a Successful Charm/Impress a Free Quebuc Officer.

Male Player B: A Free Quebuc Officer of the Glitter legions, rebuttels with a successful Trust/Intimidate.

The question comes as, how would either player resist the challenge if at all?

The most important thing to consider is that none of these are mind control, and that situational modifiers apply.
Charm/Impress/Trust/Intimidate are more reaction/influence checks. It isn't Suggestion and it isn't the Jedi Mind Trick.
You don't mention whether the characters are both male, but I'll assume they are for the moment.
B finds A to be an impressive looking individual, not a scraggly mess he might as soon ignore otherwise. (It's like meeting Bruce Campbell, you just can't ignore a chin that impressive. )
You also don't mention whether B is trying to get A to trust him or intimidate A. B could like A enough to get him to trust his decision regarding whatever it is they are disagreeing about, or perhaps tries to assert himself as being more manly by intimidating A.

Then there's modifiers, not knowing the situation or if any orders or deeper conflicts are involved, I can pick out at least two big ones.
Mutant vs Free Quebec Officer. Does the officer know A is inhuman, and to what degree? That would go a LONG way toward how charming he'd find A, and even if impressed with it's appearance, if a threat that won't stop a Boom Gun rebuttal.
Boom Gun vs Mutant. Let's just say having a Boom Gun pointed even near you when you aren't behind heavy armor or have piles of personal MDC, is something of a Intimidation bonus for the one in the Glitter Boy.

Charm/Impress and Invoke Trust/Intimidate are more of a 'soft' result than anything solid, that's why there isn't a 'save' involved. It affects how people take other people, it'll take more than just a roll to get someone to do anything major. 'I rolled successfully, the Emperor trusts me and will name Erin Tarn his heir.' Use the wrong one even success can be bad. Ordinary person intimidates the hostile gang leader and he sees him as a threat and sics a whole group on the poor guy.

[SkyeFyre]

Just because someone successfully charms or impresses someone does not mean that they'll spill the beans on absolutely everything. It just means they're charmed and more likely to share information. In the above scenario with the dogboy I'd probably have it that the dogboy trusts the dragon more than the rest of it's captors, and may be kinder, or more responsive. Maybe more likely to slip around them... but by no means will they just tell everything.

[Jerell]

Yes. Charming and impressing by someone who just killed all your mates, would be pretty much next to useless.

If you want to get information out of an enemy, there are a number of ways. The best I think is to first create a "we know everything" illusion, then, and more importantly, exploit the fundamental human need to talk, to be understood, and to be treated with respect. I recommend researching the RAF and later Luftwaffe master interrogaters (Hanns Scharf is a great one to start with) and systems durring WW2, for players and GM that would like a real sense of what works best(to this very day, mind you).

Trying to get something out of that dogboy, after you killed his budies in front of him, no matter how charismatic or pretty you are, would likely result in nothing. Humiliating him further would only make his contempt grow.

It sounds like her character COULD be a good interrogator given the proper techniques, and right situation, but it sounds to me like this one is a lost cuase.

[csbioborg]

Just curious even if you did do that to your girlfriends's charecter why wouldn't the dragon just bioregenerate the damage? Are there some special rules to radiation or something. I thought that if the charecter is actually reduce to zero bioregeneration gets you back to normal after the precribed time

[CushionRide]

this is actually a really simple issue, a charm and impress roll is a skill check,

im the mutant btw. i have a 94% chance to charm and impress in a normal circumstance. it is the GM's responsiblity to modify the skill percentage based on the situation. for example if i was trying to charm a dragon. yea right i would expect my gm to say you have a 10% chance instead of the normal 94%. the change should be based on racials, or pure level of the charachter. a level 15 char will be harder to charm than a lvl 1. and a level 15 dragon of sorts yea right lol

thats my take on it

[Gallahan]

They can't. Both are subject to the other's attempt. If they cancel out or not depend on the SPECIFICS of the SITUATION.