How Lenient?

[Killer Cyborg]

IF I for some reason feel like being lenient in such a situation, what I do is to roll a random hit location die.
If it's head or torso, the PC is toast.
But if they lose a limb, there's a chance to survive if they get medical help.

Remember, an average energy pistol leaves holes the size of a volleyball.

[Jefram_denkar]

In general I tend to be nice in situations like that when it is not a major plot point, offer them at least a chance to escape dangerous situations or the help of a friendly NPC to heal them up.

Mind you I have had players who seen to have a gift for getting their characters killed at the worst times.

[Rockwolf66]

hehehe,

Last game I ran had only one player killed. Probably as I intigrated the "Dumb Luck" rule from N&S. Still the only reason why there wasn't more people dead was the fact that the Party lucked out on several damage rolls and once the party rolled a 1 when they tried to perform a life saveing tecnique from Battle Angel Alita.

[Scott Gibbons]

I very much let my leniency follow along the lines of just how, ahem, poor the choices were that got the character killed.

Recent examples: Several characters in the party were invited to attend (and guard) a picnic by a nearby lake for a group of orphans. Four Characters went, one a young fire dragon who's 20 feet long. Naturally, bad guys showed up (Worm Wraiths with very big rifles) and they started shooting indiscriminately toward the kids. The dragon dove in front of the group of kids and stood there for four melees taking a merciless pummeling. I gave him several chances to escape, but also made clear that if he did, at least some of the kiddies would not be making it back to the orphanage. In his words (spoken in character to another PC) "I don't care if I die, I'm not abandoning these kids." He was eventually killed, but managed to protect the kids long enough for the other three PCs to finish off the baddies. The player took it like a trooper, with a sad nod but no whining. That said, I ruled that as the rest of the party and town heard about his heroics, an NPC priest of light came and prayed over his body and a miracle of resurrection occurred. There were cheers around the gaming table that night and I swear some of the players were about to break out in tears. And everyone laughed when the kids from the orphanage mobbed the newly ressurected dragon to show their thanks.

On the other hand: Two sessions ago, the group was exploring an underground pre-Rifts base, and had been chased out by a bunch of robot defenders with heavy hitting energy weapons that were VERY accurate. One player decided to have his PC sneak back in, stating that he wanted to know if the robots were guarding a certain door that was at the end of a long, straight corridor. By himself, he went to the corner of the corridor; the player stated "I'm going to stick my head around the corner to see if they're there." I asked him "Your sticking your head around the corner?!" "Yeah, I'm sticking my head around the corner," he said, pantomiming the gesture for all to see. (I must hasten to add, his character did not wear EBA, and the front of his helmet was fully open.) I said "Your character sticks his head around the corner. Instantly he sees several bolts of energy flying directly toward him." I gave him a chance to try to dodge, which he flubbed. Needless to say, his comrades had to go back in to recover the body. In this case, I ruled no chance of ressurection, since it was the character's choice to go back into a dangerous situation for no other reason than curiosity and not take any sort of precautions before sticking his whole head around the corner. To his credit, that player took it like a trooper as well, though he was disappointed since the character that died was only 200 experience points from reaching 6th level.

So that's how I do it. If the players are doing something noble, heroic or have gotten in over their heads without much forewarning, I'll try to cut them whatever slack I can. If their doing something dumb, or without due consideration (or outright ignoring the warnings I've thrown at them), then I let the dice fall where they may and don't expect much sympathy from me...

[Vrykolas2k]

Dead is dead, parts is parts... dead guys is parts.
In other words, if my NPC kills a PC, oh well... Rifts is meant to be deadly.

[sasha]

Dead is dead, parts is parts... dead guys is parts.
In other words, if my NPC kills a PC, oh well... Rifts is meant to be deadly.

Basically yea.

But I'll never criticise a lenient GM though. My playstyle works for me and my group - no quarter is asked or given.

[Noon]

Why the advance warning to turn their shields on?

It's because even though you didn't intend it, this is a railroad - they have to have their shields on. So there is no choice in turning them on. But at the same time you have to present it as if it's a choice, when really it's a railroad instigated by the system.

[bigbobsr6000]

I have and use various "hit location" tables. (Posts below). Unless the head and/or torso is vaporized I let them roll their save vs coma/death. If save, they suffer whatever damage to the area hit. They still may bleed to death if not recieving medical treatment in time based on the wound recieved. Based on the devastion of the injurey, I have them make a second save vs coma only roll to see if they go into shock or a coma.

POST 1, POST 2

Second, if the PC (or NPC) dies I have them roll a percentille to see if there is Deity intervention. Usually no more than a 1-10% chance, mostly 1-5% chance. Success means they are retuned to "fullfill" thier mission or assigned a mission by the Deity. If the PC does not have a Deity of choice, I wiill use one like Loki or Fairie Folk, something mischievious. And I have been known to adjust the percentile roll more in favor of the PC. Or I might use a middle roll on the percentile like must roll a 45-55 range inclusive.

Third, "fudge" the deadly hit as not to kill the PC and state: "That last shot hit your helmet (or "grazed" your head) knocking you down. You are dazed and there is blood seeping from your head wound. You realize at this point you must do something or the next hit could be deadly." Then it is up to the PC to react to that.

Fourth, I do allow Resurrection if it is available in the campaign world we happen to be in. If it happens, the PC is returned to full health.

Well, that's my speil on the subject. Hope this helps anyone or.....anything

[KillWatch]

are you kidding? YOu coddled them. Yould explain this situation to them as you did with us
1) you had no MDC protection
2) the blood bolt hit you, and hit you hard
3) by the rules, you and your internal organs would have suddenly taken seperate (yet equal) vacations to different areas behind you.
4) You eneed with a paralyzed leg instead of tomato paste, or gumbo. So if you want we can go by the rules and you will be dead, votes anyone???
stop your infernal kavetching

[Jerell]

It just so happens... that I have been spending a lot of time here in a Forward Surgical Team, treating some burns, blasts, and GSWs. You may be surprised how some injuries are survivable given early surgery. Inversely some guys never had a chance. It all depends on what (in the body) was hit and by what. Since I've yet to see any wounds caused by magic, I've no idea how that works. Or what the survivability of that kind of injury would be.

A lot of times the casualty does end up with some sort of disability. So in this case, I think your call was fine, the paralysed leg was a good call I think. Some wounded can go either way, if that's the way you want to treat it, good for you mate. The roll vs. coma/death seems like it's a good way to see if the casualty is salvagable or not, and that's usually the way I play it, depending on what weapon hit them of course. If it's big, than sometimes they're just 'vaped.

[LostOne]

If the player(s) has his brain turned off and doesn't protect himself when a fight is clearly about to happen? Chalk it up to player stupidity and put another notch in my belt.

No, I don't really notch my belt.

[Gallahan]

New players, inexperienced ones... sure, I give them chances. I help them out by re-asking a question in a different way, or guide them *slightly* without crossing over into thwarting another player's plans. You have to be careful. Like a good talk show host doesn't want their guest to be made a fool of, they also can't direct the conversation either.

[Brian Manning]

I have not read that energy pistols leave holes the size of a volleyball. It might be in the book, though it doesn't really matter because physics says that it wouldn't happen that way...

I don't recall if it was ever mentioned in other books, but I remember reading it in Sourcebook 1 (although I haven't read through the reprinted version to see if it's still in there). I play it all differently personally (like you mentioned a quarter-sized hole, or a maiming and grievous bodily harm if I I feel the PC to survive).

As for the original post, when you say you gave the players advance warning of the threat, did they know they were walking into a hostile environment where they would be fired (or cast) upon without any provocation? Were they walking in with no defensive measures taken, but all of their weapons drawn and ready? If not, did they have any indication that the "boss" was the type to sling spells first and ask questions later?

Please don't read any of the above as me criticizing your GMing style, I'm just curious as to how to answer your question of leniency. If the above was true, then yeah, you were lenient with the player. If, however they were just intending to scope things out without any indication that the antagonist was a trigger-happy mage, then they were probably expecting a more gradual escalation in the action.

The way I usually run something like that is to give the players a clear idea of what to expect. If they see the guy just blast some random passerby with no provocation and they still walk up with their defenses lowered, they better have some luck in the dice. But for the most part, if the group just walks up to a threat (intelligent threat anyway), in a non-threatening way, all they're really doing is giving up a chance to set up a tactical advantage, and putting themselves in a bad spot before the action actually starts (they'll most likely be covered from an advantageous position, and better have a non-violent way of the situation...or like before, lucky dice).

[Gallahan]

Never be lenient with rules lawyers. Give slack to newbies with promise. Never give slack or leeway to stupid players. In fact, never game with idiots. LOL

[KillWatch]

remind me what setting was this

[KillWatch]

I could understand if they were to ocmplain in an SDC setting, but in an MDC they are shocked or surprised? Too frickan bad. Most of the wildlife is MDC

[Brian Manning]

Yeah, they didn't think it through, and you were fair with your decision.

[Natasha]

Actually as a GM I have never killed of a current player's character. I don't run killer campaigns though there is plenty of fighting. Several times I have changed one of my rolls so that a character would live and have never regretted doing so.
I would not do this for a player who is just being stupid or always hefts his weapon and screams charge. But we only had one player who I would consider a stupid player and doesn't play with us anymore.

He became the GM

[KillWatch]

I've killed and killed and killed
I've killed one on one
I've killed an entire table (11 total)
I've killed a PC in his intro before the actual game

artificially keeping a PC alive just cheapens it when a player actually earns the right to live

[Natasha]

Cheapens what and for who?

It's all relative.

[KillWatch]

Then there is no risk. You might fail but so what. The GM won't let us die.
How much more intense is the game when you know that your skills, your abilities, your mind, and your role playing ability if your character which you have cultivated since level one to level 5 with backstory conatacts and five pages of history?

When that character dies doing something simple but totally in character like saving a child or sacrificing themselves for loved on or a partner.

I know after the GM gave me back my character after I went through what I thought were my characters last moments, I considered him dead and playing him felt wrong. He should have died and stayed that way. Because his life was now cheap, I got a character rebate.

If I know the GM is going to BS me for the sake of the game or my "feelings", then I have lost some respect for them. I can accept them trying within reasn to save me, but altering what is or should be just because it's unpleasant is completely weak. I'm not a newb, this is not my first character, I know crap happens and it should.

If I ahve demolitins and disarm a bomb but fail with a 100% though I have a 97% in the skill, doesn't that make the story all the more tragic? more compelling?
He shouldn't have died. It ws simple, it was a nothing bomb, he should be here with us, sharing a beer.
Doesn't it mean more or even jus tmore enjoyable when you finally and honestly take down the big baddy because of your luck, the dice, and good skill selection and IG thought? Or is it better when you know the GM glubbed a roll to make Ghengis the Uber thief still uber even if falsley?

Should the GM reward my ignorance or stupidity because we happen across the templ of elemental evil at level one and decide to go in anyway?

Should the GM alter the preset mood of an npc who is already in a bad mood, when the PC starts talking trash? And just because there is areallly good chance the NPC can take him, change his disposition? Flub rolls? back down? Hell no. Back it up. and if you win, the victory is sweet. If you lose thenhopefully your character died as he lived and you stayed true to them.

I guess in essence, isn't beating halo without the cheats more satisfying than using them? When you and your friend with the Gameshark tell your other friends about beating the game, don't you want to look at him and point out that he used cheats? if not slap him stupid?

Now don't get me wrong if there is a reasonable and compelling reason why the PC should live then I am all for it. If in the bar the big bad NPC gets a look at the PCs bigger badder comrade, he might just back off. If the PCs are expecting a cop contact to arrive at any moment then fine. But I won't alter the presumed reality, just to save a PC. I won't put NPCs in the bar that I wasn't intending to. But if the PC has powers yet undiscovered or developed, and they become distressed (such as having a pool cue shoved into ill advised oraphus) the power or ability may decide to activate and help the situation. However that would still be within the presumed reality of the game without changing anything

[Natasha]

Now don't get me wrong if there is a reasonable and compelling reason why the PC should live then I am all for it.

That's all I meant.

[CyCo]

Lenient?

In the D20 game I'm running at the moment, there are 4 PCs and 1 major NPC tag-a-long.

They've gone from 1st level, and just got to 6th level. All have nearly died once, two have nearly died three times, and one has nearly died five times. And the NPC has nearly died 4 times as well.

One (the one who has nearly died 5 times), once got to -10 during combat. He only lived due to the order of iniative, as the cleric went before him and healed him for his action. The players action was to not die.

[LostOne]

Back in high school we had this player, who as it turns out apparently had some major emotional problems:

It was the first night of a new game, he was supposedly an experienced player with another group, but this was his first time with us. GM laid down the rules (realistic consequences, gritty, no warnings for stupid moves, etc).

I don't remember what he was playing, partial conversion cyborg maybe. He got cocky, started flirting with an exotically beautiful d-bee at the bar. She wasn't having any of it, she gave some kind of display of strength (bending the steel rail along the edge of the bar or something I guess), clearly robotic or better strength in any case. He didn't take the hint, she told him off, he still didn't take the hint. She cussed him up one side and down the other and slapped him, hard, and while doing that her temper revealed she was some kind of shapeshifting demon/dragon thing (we never did find out what for sure). He walked off and waited for her to sit down at the bar again, he came up behind her and reached around and groped ...with both hands. She did a monkey picking peaches maneuver...he was still all man down there, until now. He bled to death because there wasn't a cyberdoc or any kind of healer around.

The player choked back tears, got up and left without saying a word, and never came back.

A couple weeks later the player cornered another of our players and started telling him about all the fun he was having, GMing for himself!

[KillWatch]

OK I have SOME idea of how the players are going to get out of it but I don't know if they will think of it.

They are going to recover the sword Exordius (D&D) from it's safe keep, a tomb deep beneath a castle. The lord of the castle (a 15th level Paladin of Anubis) has been falling victim to the sounds of the undead spirist that were soul sucked into the blade but have been slowly leaching out over time. By the time he knew what was happening deep below, he was too weak and fragile to do anything about it.
Enter the players to jrouney down and retrieve the sword for the lord so that he may rest the demon behind it all (Acorn of Wo Mai-also D&D)

The players:
9th level Moon Elven Ranger with twin Osiris blessed Solum (metal of the sun) scimitars
5th level Feln (small cat race) Earth Warlock, no armor
A former PC now NPC first level Human Witch of Bennu, who has a scyth which most of his powers are channled through or into

They are up against 100 shadows that have broken free of the sword Exordius. They sap strength and the way I figure it for 3 of them in a 15 segment melee, each PC will be subject to 20 attacks per.

My Idea: The swords are quasi intelligent and their main purpose is to destroy evil. TO save the group the avatar of the swords, and the spirit shard of Osiris, may converse with the Ranger into letting him fulfil his purpose and save her by expending all of the swords power, and reducing it to a normal set of weapons.

Their is an option with the witch which I haven't figured out yet. Their may be an angle with the goddess of death and rebirth, but I will have to think on it.

The witch reminded them a couple of times that this was setting right, before they went into the room. I called the game due to time as they opened the door and saw about 100 shadows flying from side to side in the great hall, zig zagging from column to column. Their wretched cries of sorrow and hate like nails through the core of their souls as they sing in grotesque harmony.

this could be itneresting