Triax ... NGR Book II .. whats up ??

[Lenwen]

What exactly do you all want to see from the Triax , N.G.R. Book II ??


-Lenwen.

[rat_bastard]

Answers to the NGR magic question, updated weapons with a better sense of scale, info on German diplomacy, a thicker book than Brandon and Taylor's last book.

[rat_bastard]

From my understanding it should be submitted soon.

I believe the people in control of Palladium book's editing know how much this book is wanted and I am sure we will see it before 2010. I'm hoping for a June 2009 release so it can be my birthday book but I'm not holding my breath.

[Dustin Fireblade]

There was a thread on this not too long ago... http://shortify.com/6100

[Jmur]

Expected street date is still projected at April 28th 2020, so you've still got time to save up for it.

Well is that 2020 PA?

I'd really like to see if the NGR or the Gargoyles expanded.

[Lenwen]

I'd really like to see if the NGR or the Gargoyles expanded.

id like to know to. i really think the NGR would eventually open up a bit to other D bees once the gargoyles stop killing them

And that is one thing I personally think that the NGR has not opened up fully to the CS proposed alliance it may be that NGR has already "opened" up to the Dbee's an has a "reason" as it were to hold the CS at arms length in thier "alliance" Remember Thier is cannon of a Rahu-Man within the higher ups of NGR .

Any alliance of convience of such as Dbee's alliance with NGR would not be seen lightly by the CS . The CS has absolutly ZERO powerblock in its area that would put a strain on them like the Gargs have put the strain on the NGR .

Having said that NGR being in a constant state of warfare for as long as anyone can remember thier Tech level will undoubtedly be the highest on Rifts earth an if you ask me they "should" be on par with Phaseworld Tech already .. and VASTLY supiorior to ANYTHING that the CS could put out right now ..

Remember thats what everyone says about the Coalitions level of Tech ... thier always fighting some one thier in a world of fighting an thier tech level is going up due to that ...

Now times that by 100 litterally ... And you would have the NGR's situation . Which brings me back to my Originally posted question of ..

What do you think should be in the NGR book II ??

CS war machine book has stuff in it that is very extreamly close to what was put out in NGR book 1 .. logically speaking they are going to be developing stuff at even faster pace then the CS would be able to ..

-Lenwen.

[glitterboy2098]

actually lenwen, the CS-NGR allaince was proposed by the NGR, which saw the CS as a source of supplies and raw resources.

it was the CS that was dragging it's feet, fearful of getting involved in an oversea's war. they wanted to ensure CS troops wouldn't end up "drafted" into the NGR to fight in europe, or that allies of the gargoyles wouldn't attack the CS.

as for the NGR's treatment of D-Bee's, they call them border peoples, and D-bee's can't live in NGR communities. they live, unofficially, in shantytowns along the borders of the NGR, mostly in the black forest region. the NGR is content to ignore them as long as the D-bee's don't cause a problem.

the NGr, much like the CS, used to be a culture that accepted d-bee's and magic users. then, much like the CS, they found themselves fighting an inhuman enemy, and paranoia motivated the distrust and eventual removal of d-bee's from within their borders. however, unlike the CS, the NGR never really developed the racism of the CS, stopping at just xenophobia. the rahu-man on the NGR exec council was probably asked to leave at that time.

if anything, if the NGR was to learn exactly how the CS treats D-bee's and it's own people the NGR would withdraw the treaty. as evidenced from WB5, the Cs has been conducting a disinformation campaign. (Erin tarn is posing as a CS officer, and the NGR officers don't wonder about her cover story of helping out D-bee villages? NGR thinks Erin Tarn is a folkhero to the CS?)

[The Galactus Kid]

There will be a portrayl of German Culture, but there are things to remember.

1. There will be hints of modern German culture, but for the most part, the NGR is a combination of many cultures from all around Europe, AND its in the future. While somethings would be recognizable, many elements of their culture have been lost.

2. Its fiction. We will base some of what we write on the modern day, but ultimately, it won't all be that way.

[Lenwen]

actually lenwen, the CS-NGR allaince was proposed by the NGR, which saw the CS as a source of supplies and raw resources.

it was the CS that was dragging it's feet, fearful of getting involved in an oversea's war. they wanted to ensure CS troops wouldn't end up "drafted" into the NGR to fight in europe, or that allies of the gargoyles wouldn't attack the CS.

Aye the only thing the NGR needs an wants from the CS is foodsources and raw materials ..

The CS conversly wants all the tech they can get thier hands on from NGR or more presicly .. Triax industries .. And that is from whta I read the real reason they are draggin thier feet on the proposed alliance .. not to mention the possabilities of getting drawn into the war threw third party allies of the gargoyal empire ...

Least that is what I read it could have changed some in newer books but that was what was mentioned in W.B.5 .

-Lenwen.

[Aramanthus]

I can't wait to see this book.

[The Galactus Kid]

lol. Me either. hahaha

[tenakafurey]

What exactly do you all want to see from the Triax , N.G.R. Book II ??

I'd like to see more on the society of the NGR....what are its views on magic and DBs since some parts seem to suggest they hate them, others part suggest more a case of putting the human race first, evn if that means distasteful expulsion of "immigrants".

Not to mention the Rahu-Man. I wonder how the CS is dealing with him.

I'd like to see the NGR tech base expanded and reflective of what they are. They are supposedly the foremost technological human power on Earth so it would be nice to see this.

Or at least an explanation why their units don't? Are they kept "low tech" to aid with repair and logistics for example? Making sure that a pistol does less damage than a tank would also be a nice change..

More on the Gargoyle Wars.

EJL

[glitterboy2098]

I'd like to see the NGR tech base expanded and reflective of what they are. They are supposedly the foremost technological human power on Earth so it would be nice to see this.

Or at least an explanation why their units don't? Are they kept "low tech" to aid with repair and logistics for example?

this is any easy one to answer. it all comes down to two things.
A) the nature of technological advancement
B) the military paradigm of the NGR

A) technological advancement rarely means "look what new thing i can do", but rather "look how small i can make this!". just like Computers have gone from building sized monstrosities to hand calculators with the same power, engines can cram more and more horsepower into smaller and smaller mass, and computer displays have gone from big monocromatic cathode ray tubes to tiny, hundred+ color flatscreen LCD's and plasma screens.

a lot of the advanced technology of the NGR will be stuff that doesn't really effect the stats. for example, the NGR body armor has a simulated reality HUD and multioptic sensors instead of a physical transparent visor. this indicates not only extremely good LCD's, but also extremely reliable ones. it also means very compact, very efficent, and very powerful computer systems to run said system. which also has the option of linking into the weapons via interface ports (which indicate very advanced computers in the weapons themselves) so they can see info on the weapon on their HUD.

but this is less noticeable in the stats than the 100MDC of the armor.

compare this to the CS's equivilent new generation suits. same MDC, but with a transparent visor with overlaid HUD (fairly primative tech) and no weapon datalinks or built in sensors beyond nightvison and thermal (both fairly simple tech). the computers on the board the suit are thus less potent, and there are none aboard the weapon itself (beyond the basic circuts needed for operation).

look at the NGR bot's. they are smaller and faster than comparative units of the time, and still as potent. the NGR shared their weapons and armor technology with the CS, bringing those parts up to NGR spec, which just meant the CS could pack more armor and guns onto their bot's and PA.

you also have reliability. this is something sorta glossed over in the game, but part of the NGR's technological advantage is probably due ot it's technology breaking down less. lets say a CS robot needs a full overhaul once a year, with preventive maintenece every month. an NGR bot' of the same size and capability might only need an overhaul of once every 18 months, with preventive maintenece every 3-4 months.

not unlike modern planes. older designs required constantly replacement of parts as they wore out. now we have parts that last much much longer due to advancements in materials and design. so the parts need to be replaced less often.


B) military paradigm is the basic philosophy behind the military. for example, the CS is heavy on the "Shock and Awe" strategy that requires powerful combined arms units able to hit a target and take it out quick. as a result, their robots, tanks, planes, and so on are built ot have lots of armor and firepower but be a bit light on speed and manuverbility. it's all about the first strike.

the NGR seems to be more on the "fluid warfare" paradigm, where units are required ot be able to relocate quickly to new locations, and firepower is a matter of prescision more than brute force. NGR units in WB5 bear this out. their bots, tanks, and planes all are fast, agile, and have guns that are more accurate than the CS's stuff. they just carry less of them. as a result, the NGR bots seem less powerful on paper, but in battle are actually more potent, since they can out manuver the enemy and being more accurate, can put more damage on the target despite the fewer shots and weaker individual firepower.


the CS's paradigm works well with it's expansionist warfare. shock and awe is anoffensive paradigm, it tends to be so specialized on going on the attack it suffers when forced on the defensive (look at the rout that was the sorcerors revenge during the SoT. the CS lost offensive momentum and their entire war nearly collapsed..)
on the otherhand, the NGR's fluid warfare is an ideal defensive paradigm, since those fast accurate units can react to enemy movements to prevent the enemy from exploiting holes in your defense. ideal when your enemy can nearly all fly. the big drawback being that offensives have to be very well co-ordinated and supported, so you don't create gaps in your defenses in the process.

[Aramanthus]

ROFLMAO!!! That is a great one Galactus Kid!

[Kagashi]

Heh, i cant wait to see it myself as well. Thats going to be an automatic purchase...weather my family needs food on the table or not.

[rat_bastard]

Heh, i cant wait to see it myself as well. Thats going to be an automatic purchase...weather my family needs food on the table or not.

damn straight!

[Rallan]

More about what it's like to actually live in the NGR or work for Triax. More on the political dissident groups like the Unmutuals. More on what it's like to be a d-bee or an exile forced to live on the fringes of the German state. More on Germany's gargoyle infiltration program. Attempts by the gargoyles (or brodkil, Mindwerks, or Atlantis) to infiltrate the NGR, so there's room for campaigns that aren't all about military asskicking. Some sort of CS military taskforce operating out of Germany (or the Polish citystates, which would doubtless be hella grateful) to act as a handy plothook for American/European crossover campaigns.

And not too many robots. We've already got one NGR book that's nothing but a hardware catalog, and it gave us a robot for every conceivable situation.

[The Galactus Kid]

And not too many robots. We've already got one NGR book that's nothing but a hardware catalog, and it gave us a robot for every conceivable situation.

Too bad. You're getting robots. hahaha

I like that everybody is chiming in. I think you all will really like what we have for you.

[Kagashi]

Are we going to see more of the wonderful stuff from the Rifter article concerning the new Jaeger attachments and the Devastator MK II?

If so...I totally welcome that stuff...it was great!

[Kagashi]

Rifter 31

[The Galactus Kid]

Thank you.

and yes.

[Lenwen]

I want to simply go on record as mentioning at least once ...

I CANT WAIT FOR THIS BOOK !!!

that is all ...



-Lenwen.

[tenakafurey]

A) technological advancement rarely means "look what new thing i can do", but rather "look how small i can make this!". just like Computers have gone from building sized monstrosities to hand calculators with the same power, engines can cram more and more horsepower into smaller and smaller mass, and computer displays have gone from big monocromatic cathode ray tubes to tiny, hundred+ color flatscreen LCD's and plasma screens.

It's all very well to say that...but then I look at the Devastator, for example.

Now, there's no reason the NGR should have the biggest guns and the baddest armies. As you say, tech progression can take lots of forms.

But...the issue should be addressed somehow. After all, if you can make everything smaller, that does leave a lot of room for extra gear in some of the NGRs monstrosities. It can't all go on underpowered, oversized guns.

EJL

[Lenwen]

Thats a double edged sword if you ask me .. the CS comes out with a completly new armed force ..

An the writers say its due to years and years of warfare ...

Now take that .. times it by infinity compounded by time .. an you get the NGR ..

The NGR should have by all rights the highest lvl of tech in the world simply due to the Writers handwavium explanation of the CS's new high tech armed forces ...

Just my 2 cp's

-Lenwen.

[Marcus]

I'm also really looking forward to this book.

As German it's always interesting and sometimes quite amusing to see how we are presented in games.

But please don't use "Fräulein". We don't use it anymore and it's quite unlikely we'll ever use it again.

[The Galactus Kid]

Well, the article is not official material, but it will be explained either way. I hope you like the article. We had a blast writing it and wouldn't be working on Triax 2 if it hadn't been for the fun we had with that one.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

In Mindworks (which was a sourcebook for the original Triax book) it says Berlin is just ruins. But in the NGR article in the Rifter (which was writen by Brandon) not only is Berlin a rebuilt city, but is the Capital of the NGR.

I wrote that part.
I didn't have a copy of Mindwerks at the time, so i didn't know. When I saw that map i was like "Dur, good thing the Rifter isn't canon." I also didn't know much about the geography of eastern Germany or much about the NGR interior infrastructure.
Suffice to say that article will need to be re-written. Or maybe it already is....hmmm.......

[The Galactus Kid]

God, I love that guy (Taylor). He's awesome.

[glitterboy2098]

A) technological advancement rarely means "look what new thing i can do", but rather "look how small i can make this!". just like Computers have gone from building sized monstrosities to hand calculators with the same power, engines can cram more and more horsepower into smaller and smaller mass, and computer displays have gone from big monocromatic cathode ray tubes to tiny, hundred+ color flatscreen LCD's and plasma screens.

It's all very well to say that...but then I look at the Devastator, for example.

Now, there's no reason the NGR should have the biggest guns and the baddest armies. As you say, tech progression can take lots of forms.

But...the issue should be addressed somehow. After all, if you can make everything smaller, that does leave a lot of room for extra gear in some of the NGRs monstrosities. It can't all go on underpowered, oversized guns.

EJL

actually you can't make everything smaller. lasers, for example, are limited by some very harsh physical laws. focusing devices for example, have certain minimum sizes depending on the intensity, wavelength, and duration of the beam, not to mention color, ambient contitions, composition of the mirrors and lenses, ect.
lasing systems also have minimum sizes, based on method of generating the beam an the properties of the beam itself. a chemical laser has to expend chemicals to make the beam. a free-electron laser has minimum magnet sizes before it doesn't work. solid-state lasing devices are governed by the effects of quantum mechanics.

missiles are governed by the energy density of the explosives, of the propellants, the compactness of the computers (which reached one maximum a few years back, no conventional electronic processor can much more powerful or compact than they are. which is why we're seeing a move to dual core computers..), mass of manuvering systems, sensors, ect.

railguns are governed by duribility of the rails, conductivity, projectile mass, recoil suppression systems (which tend to get more massive as the destructive power of the weapon increases, usually at an increasing ratio!), ect.


the main improvements tend to be in efficency. look at the CS's new SAMAS suits. would the CS have been able to power all those missiles, guns, and lasers using their old tech? probably not, or they'd have used them on the old style SAMAS. the NGR advancements made the systems use less energy, allowing them to pack more of them on. some mass savings were probably involved as well, since those new suits are more potent pound for pound as well. but a lot of that likely comes from the efficency improvements. if i can make wires that carry electricity twice as efficently, i can cut down the mass of the wires i'm using in a device.

[The Beast]

I'd like to see the next part of the comic strip that was in the original book

[Lucas]

as would I. here is a thought the massive robots get swamped by Brokil and destoried while the NGR Pilots get a way scott free

[Kagashi]

I'd like to see the next part of the comic strip that was in the original book

If Perez does it, I'd pay for that.

[runebeo]

I like to have NGR 2 book have more connections & trades relations with the warlords of Russia. Have more powerful power armors, borgs, bots and vehicles. I like a revised witchcraft section and give witches more power (I love Witches) and a Wicca witch as a playing character. Way more details on the the Black Forest. The Gargoyles need to upgrade their power armors. Some druids and devil worship cults would round out the Forest nicely.