House Rules

[Dominique]

Just out of curiosity, what are some of your house rules?

[Jefffar]

Armour rules.

[Dominique]

Would you mind sharing what you've come up with? And IIRC, weren't some type of armor rules available for the minis version of Recon?

[Jefffar]

Basically the armor reduces the damage of incomming attacks by a few points. It also eats up the weight you can carry.

[Natasha]

Would you mind sharing what you've come up with? And IIRC, weren't some type of armor rules available for the minis version of Recon?

You can get the original from Palladium Books' website on the cutting room floor.

[Dominique]

I've got those, but I remember seeing a couple of supplements for Recon (San Succi and Sayeret). IIRC, The Sayeret one had rules for armor. But that was close to 25 years ago, so I could be wrong.

[Natasha]

The only supplement I know about is Advanced RECON. It didn't talk about Israel though.

[GreenGhost]

I don't use body armor/vests in the RECON games that I GM. They weren't common at all in the Vietnam War, with the exception of Flak Jackets (and their diaper-looking shorts counter part). Despite popular misconseptions Flak Jackets issued to stateside infantrymen weren't originally designed as protection from rounds/bullets. They were designed for protection against slower moving shrapnel that a soldier would encounter at the outter edge of a blast radius and the "diaper-like" pants were used to help increase a soldier's chance for survival when a jeep would run over a mine (or other explosive device). Whatever shrapnel made it's way through the floor of the jeep would normally rip at the groin and the many arteries located in the thigh (like the lateral and medial femoral artery). It wasn't until later near the end of the Vietnam War did they start using insertion plates in Flak Jackets.

[Natasha]

No body armour for Nam era games.

But when we do modern combat games we use armour from the modern weapons book for stopping power. If it does not stop the round, you take all the damage. This is slightly different than jefffar's method.

[GreenGhost]

No body armour for Nam era games.

But when we do modern combat games we use armour from the modern weapons book for stopping power. If it does not stop the round, you take all the damage. This is slightly different than jefffar's method.

I pretty much do the same thing as you, except that I do allow a vest to slow a round down a bit. I generally call for the vest to receive approximately 25% of the damage and the rest is carried onto the character. The main exception to this would be such a drastic difference such as a concealed vest vs. a .50 BMG. The .50 BMG would slice through the vest like butter.

[Natasha]

No body armour for Nam era games.

But when we do modern combat games we use armour from the modern weapons book for stopping power. If it does not stop the round, you take all the damage. This is slightly different than jefffar's method.

I pretty much do the same thing as you, except that I do allow a vest to slow a round down a bit. I generally call for the vest to receive approximately 25% of the damage and the rest is carried onto the character. The main exception to this would be such a drastic difference such as a concealed vest vs. a .50 BMG. The .50 BMG would slice through the vest like butter.

Haha, yea.

Well this method certainly does make a lot of sense, of course.

[GreenGhost]

I wish someone would come up with the stats for Dragonskin Body Armor. There are stories of a soldiers in Iraq being shot between 3 to 5 time from an AK47 and not only survive, but not a single round penetrating the body armor.

It's flexible, light and extremely protective.

[Natasha]

Yea you're looking at giving BAs S.D.C., basically; some BAs being damage reducers (BA's S.D.C. takes 25% of the damage and the person takes the remaining 75%) while other BAs such as Dragonskin are damage absorbers (the BA's S.D.C. must be completely depleted before the person becomes vulnerable).

Our system is a sort infinite damage absorber. It makes the PCs tougher and live a little longer but they still die somewhat easy.

[Natasha]

I wish someone would come up with the stats for Dragonskin Body Armor. There are stories of a soldiers in Iraq being shot between 3 to 5 time from an AK47 and not only survive, but not a single round penetrating the body armor.

It's flexible, light and extremely protective.

Have you seen the the stuff on some of those stories? That's crazy.

And very good, too. Those guys need everything they can get.

What's crazy is at the start of the war their welders were improvising armour on their vehicles.

[GreenGhost]

I wish someone would come up with the stats for Dragonskin Body Armor. There are stories of a soldiers in Iraq being shot between 3 to 5 time from an AK47 and not only survive, but not a single round penetrating the body armor.

It's flexible, light and extremely protective.

Have you seen the the stuff on some of those stories? That's crazy.

I'd love to get my hands on a Draginskin Body Armor.

[sasha]

I wish someone would come up with the stats for Dragonskin Body Armor. There are stories of a soldiers in Iraq being shot between 3 to 5 time from an AK47 and not only survive, but not a single round penetrating the body armor.

It's flexible, light and extremely protective.

Have you seen the the stuff on some of those stories? That's crazy.

I'd love to get my hands on a Draginskin Body Armor.

You plan on getting shot or something?

[sasha]

Armour rules.

I'm a huge fan of Armour.

Armour rules!

[GreenGhost]

I wish someone would come up with the stats for Dragonskin Body Armor. There are stories of a soldiers in Iraq being shot between 3 to 5 time from an AK47 and not only survive, but not a single round penetrating the body armor.

It's flexible, light and extremely protective.

Have you seen the the stuff on some of those stories? That's crazy.

I'd love to get my hands on a Draginskin Body Armor.

You plan on getting shot or something?

I don't plan on getting shot. I just like the body armor.

[Dominique]

I wish someone would come up with the stats for Dragonskin Body Armor. There are stories of a soldiers in Iraq being shot between 3 to 5 time from an AK47 and not only survive, but not a single round penetrating the body armor.

It's flexible, light and extremely protective.

We don't wear Dragonskin, we wear Interceptor Body Armor (IBA). The only military unit using Dragonskin was the AF Office of Special Investigations (OSI), and they had some problems with it (it doesn't hold up as well when it's constantly wet - which it will be from you sweating).

[Dominique]

I know. Canvas doors and roof make for poor protection on a HMMWV.

Unfortunately, almost as we come up with a way to counter an IED, they come up with a way to defeat it. As it is, I don't think we can cram anything else on a HMMWV. My doors weigh 165lbs.

[GreenGhost]

I wish someone would come up with the stats for Dragonskin Body Armor. There are stories of a soldiers in Iraq being shot between 3 to 5 time from an AK47 and not only survive, but not a single round penetrating the body armor.

It's flexible, light and extremely protective.

We don't wear Dragonskin, we wear Interceptor Body Armor (IBA). The only military unit using Dragonskin was the AF Office of Special Investigations (OSI), and they had some problems with it (it doesn't hold up as well when it's constantly wet - which it will be from you sweating).

Never heard of a problem in the field with moisture affecting the armor. It passed the original "wet tests" with flying colors.

What was the problems you experienced or heard of when it comes to moisture?

[Dominique]

Never heard of a problem in the field with moisture affecting the armor. It passed the original "wet tests" with flying colors.

What was the problems you experienced or heard of when it comes to moisture?

All body armor breaks down when its wet, and it does tend to get a little warm over here so you sweat a LOT. While OSI guys liked the Dragonskin vests (there more comfortable), they were wearing out to quickly, and had to be replaced more frequently than other brands.

[GreenGhost]

Never heard of a problem in the field with moisture affecting the armor. It passed the original "wet tests" with flying colors.

What was the problems you experienced or heard of when it comes to moisture?

All body armor breaks down when its wet, and it does tend to get a little warm over here so you sweat a LOT. While OSI guys liked the Dragonskin vests (there more comfortable), they were wearing out to quickly, and had to be replaced more frequently than other brands.

Good to know

[Dominique]

Now the door comes apart in sections depending on what type of hummer you're in, the type of window installed on the door, and the model blast kit you are using. No more stealing the doors off another vehicle in the motor pool, when yours are broken, or get a hole in them.

[tgunner91]

I've got those, but I remember seeing a couple of supplements for Recon (San Succi and Sayeret). IIRC, The Sayeret one had rules for armor. But that was close to 25 years ago, so I could be wrong.

You're correct. Wierdly enough I picked up a copy of that book today at a local game store. They deal in used games and I hit the Recon jackpot. I picked up a copy of Hearts and Minds, Sayaret, and Advanced Recon. Up until now all I had was Delux Recon!

The rule section is called Track Commander and it appears to be a decent sized section. The book also has stats for most Middle Eastern armor from the Six Day War up to the '83 War in Lebanon.

It's a nice little booklet, and I stress little! Probably would have winced at paying $5.98 for the little booger back in '83, but I happily snatched it up today for mere $2.

[tgunner91]

The only supplement I know about is Advanced RECON. It didn't talk about Israel though.

Recon wasn't a Palladium designed game. Back in the early '80s a small company called RPG Inc sold the game. Apparenly Kevin and company purchased the rights to the game and took it over. According to the back of my Hearts and Minds booklet there were three supplements for Recon: The Haiphong HALO, Hearts and Minds, and Sayaret. Sayaret was the supplement that took Recon out of the Vietnam War and into the Middle East.

I don't think RPG printed many Recon books and they are probably very hard to find now.

[Natasha]

The only supplement I know about is Advanced RECON. It didn't talk about Israel though.

Recon wasn't a Palladium designed game. Back in the early '80s a small company called RPG Inc sold the game. Apparenly Kevin and company purchased the rights to the game and took it over. According to the back of my Hearts and Minds booklet there were three supplements for Recon: The Haiphong HALO, Hearts and Minds, and Sayaret. Sayaret was the supplement that took Recon out of the Vietnam War and into the Middle East.

I don't think RPG printed many Recon books and they are probably very hard to find now.

Yea I know, I thought he was talking about supplements published by Palladium Books.

Thanks.

[Dominique]

After much procrastination, here's the long promised list of skills I came up with for use in a Modern Recon Campaign.

High Altitude, High Opening (HAHO) - Basically The jumper opens his chute at an extreme altitude, and glides to his target.

Low Altitude, Low Opening (LALO) - Used for combat operations. The Jumper jumps at the minimum altitude needed to have time for his chute to deploy. This is the type of jump the Rangers executed in both Grenada and Panama. The advantage is you're only in the air about 30 seconds r so, the disadvantage is if you have a problem with your chute, you don't have time to deploy a reserve, as you'll have already impacted with the ground.

Low Altitude, High Speed - (LAHS) - It’s similar to a LALO drop, but the aircraft picks rapidly climbs, then dives to pick up speed. The Rhodesian SAS, and RLI used this to insert SAS teams or RLI “Fire Force” units quickly.

Tandem Jumping - Basically a second person, or animals such as a dog, are strapped to the primary jumper, and piggy-back off of their parachute.

Water Jumps - Basically a person is trained in techniques to properly conduct a jump into a large body of water.

HALO SCUBA - It was originally developed for use in maritime counter terror (MCT) operations to allow SEALS and other CT forces, to insert near maritime targets, when no landing zone was available. If you’ve ever seen the movie “Navy SEALS” you, they conduct a HALO SCUBA op to infiltrate into Lebanon.

Rough Terrain Jumps - All I did was change the name to better reflect what the skill actually covered.

McGuire Rig - an extraction technique for use in a Vietnam area game.

Rappelling

Fast Roping/FRIES & Special Purpose Infiltration/Exfiltration System (SPIES) - It’s the system that replace both the STABO and McGuire Rig.

Helo Casting - Basically you’re trained to properly jump out of a helicopter in water without breaking any body parts.

Sling Loading - You’re trained on how to properly hook equipment to a helo for transport.

Small Boat Handling - You know how to operate a CRRC, Rigid Raider, or similar craft.

Mountaineering -You’re trained in climbing and other mountain operations techniques.

Instructor - Basically this skill allows you to teach skills to others.

Laser Target Designators (LTD) - You’re skilled in use of various types of laser target designators for directing artillery, naval gunfire, and laser guided bombs.

Night Vision Goggles (NVG)- you’re trained in the proper use of various types of night vision goggles.
Targeting Lasers - You are trained in the proper you use of various types of small arms targeting lasers.

Air Traffic Controller - You can direct the movements of various types of aircraft both on the ground and in the air (the primary skill of both Pathfinders and Combat Controllers)

Mines -You’re trained in the use of various types of anti-tank and anti-personnel mines.

81mm Mortars
120mm Mortars

MANPADS (Man Portable Air Defense System) -You’re trained in the use of man portable surface to air missile systems.

Fast Draw - You’re trained to rapidly draw a side arm such as a pistol from its holster.

Close Quarters Battle - You’re trained in conducting close quarters combat with small arms.

Tracking - You follow a trail left by humans, animals, or vehicles. I’ve got a rough draft of a modifier chart floating around here somewhere, and I’ll post it later.

I also had a couple of survival skills, maritime navigation, some other mundane skills (Street Wise, Area Knowledge), but the above pretty much covers it. Most of the skills without explanations should be self-explanatory, if not I can post a quick description for anyone that wants it.

[NMI]

I wish someone would come up with the stats for Dragonskin Body Armor. There are stories of a soldiers in Iraq being shot between 3 to 5 time from an AK47 and not only survive, but not a single round penetrating the body armor.

It's flexible, light and extremely protective.

Ask and ye shall receive!

[Dominique]

After many moons, I'm bumping this back up, to see if anyone ever made use of the new skills and to see if I can get a little feedback on them.

[slade the sniper]

dominique,

Finally used some of your skills (CQB actually) for use with some NPC's I made for another PB game. Works well, especially in a fast flowing battle in conjunction with Fast draw. Also use the Instructor skill in almost every game so my NPC's and PC's can teach each other things. Sort of a munchkin thing to do, but it is supported IRL, so I allow it

You back in the states? I am so depressed with no more deployments...

-STS

[Dominique]

dominique,

Finally used some of your skills (CQB actually) for use with some NPC's I made for another PB game. Works well, especially in a fast flowing battle in conjunction with Fast draw. Also use the Instructor skill in almost every game so my NPC's and PC's can teach each other things. Sort of a munchkin thing to do, but it is supported IRL, so I allow it

You back in the states? I am so depressed with no more deployments...

-STS

I'm back in the US, and back with the Sheriff's Office. Been taking some courses (FEMA emergency management, active shooter response, officer rescue, and a few others), to keep busy, as well as doing some RPG writing. I'll be headed back on deployment next year, for another 13 months of fun filled excitement. After that I may call it quits, and go back to contract work, as I keep getting job offers from guys I used to work with. Contracting pays better, and quite frankly, I could use the money.

[slade the sniper]

Glad to hear you are back and in one piece.

I am stuck doing school for about two years (MICCC, NDIC, ILE) for a tour as a FA 34 in d.c. or thereabouts. After that I'll probably look at retirement and play contractor. It's not about the money for me, I couldn't care less, more the need to not be bored.

I am really hoping that my RPG'ing group gets back together to keep my mind off the fact that I am now relegated to desk duty

Take care!

-STS

[Dominique]

The last 3 or 4 months I was tooling around Iraq, I was ready to get back to the US, but after about 6 months back in the US, I was bored as hell, and ready to go back again. Luckily, I've got enough side gigs to keep me occupied.

[slade the sniper]

Uncle Sam really frowns on side gigs for some reason. I think that the phrase 24/7 is really, really taken a bit seriously by some guys in the Green Machine.

-STS