Tactical Uses of psionics an magic ..

[Samored II]

If you say so, I'd tend to think they'd want to make sure something like Tech Fairies or some other small race wasn't in the ships and planning an assault.

If they were worried about Tech Faries then they'd take action.

More seriously, why is space carrier that much more of a threat that they have to preemptively strike and not let the orbital strikes take it out like everything else? And where do they draw the line exactly?

Size, cargo load, weapons throw-weight, and an ability to absorb enough damage to survive transit through the debris field.

I'll have to pull my book out when I get home tonight, but it's right there int he ship section and refers to the robot sensors.

Ship sensors have six times the range of robot sensors.

But we still don't see anything in the book describing the level of sensor tech you seem to think they have to have.

The Snowjack adventure has a party of low-level characters with a nothing special ship rendezvousing with a 300 ton ball of ice in-bound from Deimos. The ice is off course, moving at 15 km/s and detected by the ships sensors from 100,000 miles away. Clear evidence that the Orbital's have the technology to travel millions of miles pick out a nonreflective object less than 15 miles across from 100,000 miles away, orient themselves and the object with sufficient accuracy to calculate a course deviation of less than 0.1% and accurately predict the snowballs eventual destination.

I say that's a pretty impressive level of sensor technology.

[Samored II]

Splynny could always build it on one of his worlds where the Orbitals can't see crap, or build it in a subterranean facility, etc... This debate is pretty academic, at this point.

There would still be the, not inconsiderable, issue of getting the ship into Earth orbit. An academic, but critical, point.

[Daniel Stoker]

If they were worried about Tech Faries then they'd take action.

Or maybe they just don't attack ships until they try to reach orbit like the book says?

Size, cargo load, weapons throw-weight, and an ability to absorb enough damage to survive transit through the debris field.

But how do they know the smaller ships don't have the ability to use a new shield tech that will allow them to survive? Especially if it's alien or Splogorth or whatever tech that is obviously non-human?

Ship sensors have six times the range of robot sensors.

If you knew then why ask? The ranges even at 6 times aren't that great and I sitll don't see much about them being able to see into buildings.

The Snowjack adventure has a party of low-level characters with a nothing special ship rendezvousing with a 300 ton ball of ice in-bound from Deimos. The ice is off course, moving at 15 km/s and detected by the ships sensors from 100,000 miles away. Clear evidence that the Orbital's have the technology to travel millions of miles pick out a nonreflective object less than 15 miles across from 100,000 miles away, orient themselves and the object with sufficient accuracy to calculate a course deviation of less than 0.1% and accurately predict the snowballs eventual destination.

And the adventure is great, but there is nothing listed in the ship stats or the ships sections that says they have any of the sensors you're guessing that they have.

I say that's a pretty impressive level of sensor technology.

Nah, I'd say that's a pretty impressive assumption of what they'd probably need that's not backed up by any of the actual stats or information in the book.


Daniel Stoker

[Lenwen]

Ok dont know if your questions are being for real or being smart allicky but here are your answers .
Yes he could create a Deific Portal 15,000 miles wide .

Is Splyncryyth a deity? Create Deific portal isn't one of his listed abilities. That power is from Dragons and Gods, not so? I'm going to have to see a page number where Splugoorth-ian intelligences are considered deities for this power.

Yes Splynncryth is considered a Deity. Howso ? Ok I will show you how . He has three worlds under his DIRECT control One world for the Kydians (which are billions alone) One for the Kittani ( which are at LEAST hundreds of millions right there) and One for the Highlords (homeworld race) . Now according to Gods n Dragons ... the number limit for one to be considered a God an actually be ABLE to use the god like abilities is a mere 10,000 beings . I think we covored the HOW is Lord Splynncryth a Deity ...

Your entire arguement revolves around a power you've never demonstrated Splyncryyth as having.

Your right sam .. Splynncryth has never used this ability its not even in print anywhere .. oh wait ... whats this ... the Kittani themselves are a DIRECT observation of just such an ability ... Lord Spynncryth HIMSELF saved the remaining number of that species 38,000 years ago ...

Create deific portal would eliminate ALL of the debre field with out a motor . Anything with a motor attached to it would simply be fun pickings for the litterally thousands upon thousands of Kittani Transformable Star Fighters that he rifts threw ..

Sorta like this (portal wall-->) I - I(<--portal wall) if each is 15,000 miles large I'm willing to bet nuthing would really hurt the dot in the center .. I could be wrong tho so if I am please show me how ?

Nice fantasy. Now show any evidence that Splyncryyth can do any of the things you describe.

AFAIK you have to know where you're going to open a rift so unless you can show Splyncryth has a detailed knowledge of orbital space that won't work, and you've never shown Splyncryth to have the deific portal power. It looks like all the "if" scenarios are on your side of the arguement.

True you DO have to know where to rift .. 100% by the books ... So he would simply have to cast ..
Teleport;Sup; at 10th lvl thats 3000 miles , Ley line area thats 6000miles an on a Ley Line Nexus thats 9000 miles straight up .

Do that then teleport 4 more times for the standard 3000 mile range which would put him at 21000 miles straight up an past the LEO .. then port back to his chambers ..
Now he has been there ..
So he Deifically creates a portal in which to start the whole process ...

-Lenwen.

P.S.
Simply cause one book was written after the other does not mean that it does not apply to the other cause it came after ... just some food for thought ...

[Samored II]

If they were worried about Tech Faries then they'd take action.

Or maybe they just don't attack ships until they try to reach orbit like the book says?

Since that's what this discussion has been about, thanks for wasting everyone's time.

But how do they know the smaller ships don't have the ability to use a new shield tech that will allow them to survive? Especially if it's alien or Splogorth or whatever tech that is obviously non-human?

That's why threat assessment is an inexact science.

If you knew then why ask? The ranges even at 6 times aren't that great and I sitll don't see much about them being able to see into buildings.

To see if there was something I missed. Since there doesn't seem to be, my assessment of the Orbital's sensor capabilities stands.

And the adventure is great, but there is nothing listed in the ship stats or the ships sections that says they have any of the sensors you're guessing that they have.

But yet they have to have them, therefore they are there.

[Samored II]

Yes Splynncryth is considered a Deity. Howso ? Ok I will show you how . He has three worlds under his DIRECT control One world for the Kydians (which are billions alone) One for the Kittani ( which are at LEAST hundreds of millions right there) and One for the Highlords (homeworld race) . Now according to Gods n Dragons ... the number limit for one to be considered a God an actually be ABLE to use the god like abilities is a mere 10,000 beings . I think we covored the HOW is Lord Splynncryth a Deity ...

No we've covered how he meets one criteria. I'm sure having 10,000 followers is not the sole determinant otherwise Karl Prosek would be a god.

Your right sam .. Splynncryth has never used this ability its not even in print anywhere .. oh wait ... whats this ... the Kittani themselves are a DIRECT observation of just such an ability ... Lord Spynncryth HIMSELF saved the remaining number of that species 38,000 years ago ...

Really, Splynncryth opened a deific rift to save the Kitanni? Funny how there's no mention of the specifics.

Sorta like this (portal wall-->) I - I(<--portal wall) if each is 15,000 miles large I'm willing to bet nuthing would really hurt the dot in the center .. I could be wrong tho so if I am please show me how ?

And if a frog had wings... You know the rest. It all hinges on being able to create a 15,000 mile wide rift. Something Splyncryyth has never been shown to be able to do.

True you DO have to know where to rift .. 100% by the books ... So he would simply have to cast ..
Teleport;Sup; at 10th lvl thats 3000 miles , Ley line area thats 6000miles an on a Ley Line Nexus thats 9000 miles straight up .

Do that then teleport 4 more times for the standard 3000 mile range which would put him at 21000 miles straight up an past the LEO .. then port back to his chambers ..
Now he has been there ..

The second spell would never get cast, as the first teleport would land the caster smack in the middle of the debris field. Even something with 100,000 mdc wouldn't last long enough to cast a high level spell under that kind of bombardment.

So he Deifically creates a portal in which to start the whole process ...

-Lenwen.

Except he's not a deity.

P.S.
Simply cause one book was written after the other does not mean that it does not apply to the other cause it came after ... just some food for thought ...

And simply because you really, really want something to be so, doesn't mean it is. You need proof. Or at least evidence.

[Lenwen]

[Moderator]Kindly remember to stick to the subject of the post, not attack the poster themselves.

Thanks.

Jefffar.[/Moderator]

[Daniel Stoker]

Since that's what this discussion has been about, thanks for wasting everyone's time.

And I'm trying to figure out why you think they do something the book never said they do.

That's why threat assessment is an inexact science.

But if they're going to do it/do it, why not always do it?

To see if there was something I missed. Since there doesn't seem to be, my assessment of the Orbital's sensor capabilities stands.

How does it stand when nothing in the book states they have the ability/tech you seem to think they do?

But yet they have to have them, therefore they are there.

And then the Splugorth have to have a defense against rock's being lobbed at them since no one's taken out any of their planets doing it, therefore they have that too then? Right?


Daniel Stoker

[Library Ogre]

And simply because you really, really want something to be so, doesn't mean it is. You need proof. Or at least evidence.

So, do you have any evidence for your "The orbitals drop huge rocks on anything that might be a space carrier?" Simply because you really, really want it to be so, doesn't mean it is. You need proof. Or at least evidence.

[Samored II]

Since that's what this discussion has been about, thanks for wasting everyone's time.

And I'm trying to figure out why you think they do something the book never said they do.

Really? Since you seem such a fan of circular logic, anwser these three questions: How many space carriers have been launched from Earth? Who launched them and from where?

But if they're going to do it/do it, why not always do it?

Do you swat a fly with a hand grenade?

How does it stand when nothing in the book states they have the ability/tech you seem to think they do?

Huh? So they don't routinely detect fast moving interplanetary objects and navigate trans-lunar distances? Perhaps you think they do this with a compass, sextant, and Timex watch?

And then the Splugorth have to have a defense against rock's being lobbed at them since no one's taken out any of their planets doing it, therefore they have that too then? Right?

Who says that hasn't happened?

[Samored II]

And simply because you really, really want something to be so, doesn't mean it is. You need proof. Or at least evidence.

So, do you have any evidence for your "The orbitals drop huge rocks on anything that might be a space carrier?" Simply because you really, really want it to be so, doesn't mean it is. You need proof. Or at least evidence.

It's an ability that's well within the Orbital's technical capabilities. I've provided ample evidence to support my arguement. As for proof, that will have to wait for someone to build a space carrier and try to launch it.

[Library Ogre]

And simply because you really, really want something to be so, doesn't mean it is. You need proof. Or at least evidence.

So, do you have any evidence for your "The orbitals drop huge rocks on anything that might be a space carrier?" Simply because you really, really want it to be so, doesn't mean it is. You need proof. Or at least evidence.

It's an ability that's well within the Orbital's technical capabilities. I've provided ample evidence to support my arguement. As for proof, that will have to wait for someone to build a space carrier and try to launch it.

Sure, it's within their technical capabilities, but you've ignored other arguments. That other nations have attempted to launch into space, and the orbitals have left everything about them completely alone... haven't touched launch facilities, haven't attacked their shipyards or other manufacturing centers when those could easily be space-going vessels. They've ignored the production of Dragon Dreanaughts, which ARE space-going vessels. They've ignored the massive shipyards of the Splugorth, which allows them to turn out giant floating monstrosities and space-capable fighters. Heck, the Splugorthian ships could easily be used AS space carriers with a slight design change.

You've also ignored that the orbitals know that nothing can get into space because of their counter-orbital debris field and killsats. That's been proven repeatedly. They know next to nothing of magic, and certainly not exotic magics like circles.

So, yes, in theory, they could do it. Never denied their technical capability. However, it requires them acting in a way they never have before, to take pre-emptive action against targets they've always left alone.

[Samored II]

Sure, it's within their technical capabilities, but you've ignored other arguments. That other nations have attempted to launch into space, and the orbitals have left everything about them completely alone...

I'm sorry, to date who has tried launching anything that had a snowballs chance of penetrating the defense barrier?

haven't touched launch facilities, haven't attacked their shipyards or other manufacturing centers when those could easily be space-going vessels.

As I asked the other guy, would you swat a fly with a hand grenade?

They've ignored the production of Dragon Dreanaughts, which ARE space-going vessels. They've ignored the massive shipyards of the Splugorth, which allows them to turn out giant floating monstrosities and space-capable fighters. Heck, the Splugorthian ships could easily be used AS space carriers with a slight design change.

And when the first one breaks into, I'd expect the Orbitals to destroy the shipyards and manufactories. I believe I advanced the principal of proportional response some time ago.

You've also ignored that the orbitals know that nothing can get into space because of their counter-orbital debris field and killsats. That's been proven repeatedly. They know next to nothing of magic, and certainly not exotic magics like circles.

And this knowledge is relevant how?

So, yes, in theory, they could do it. Never denied their technical capability. However, it requires them acting in a way they never have before, to take pre-emptive action against targets they've always left alone.

I'm back to my first question, who's building spacecraft and where are they based?

[Library Ogre]

Sure, it's within their technical capabilities, but you've ignored other arguments. That other nations have attempted to launch into space, and the orbitals have left everything about them completely alone...

I'm sorry, to date who has tried launching anything that had a snowballs chance of penetrating the defense barrier?

I don't know. Do you have stats on what was launched?

haven't touched launch facilities, haven't attacked their shipyards or other manufacturing centers when those could easily be space-going vessels.

As I asked the other guy, would you swat a fly with a hand grenade?

If the fly represented a disease that was threatening to wipe out my entire society (since they do consider the people on the ground quarrantined), and the only method I had of swatting it was a grenade? Yeah, I'd drop that rock.

They've ignored the production of Dragon Dreanaughts, which ARE space-going vessels. They've ignored the massive shipyards of the Splugorth, which allows them to turn out giant floating monstrosities and space-capable fighters. Heck, the Splugorthian ships could easily be used AS space carriers with a slight design change.

And when the first one breaks into, I'd expect the Orbitals to destroy the shipyards and manufactories. I believe I advanced the principal of proportional response some time ago.

So why are they going to let 240' spacecraft, capable of of carrying 32 powered armor suits (all of which are space-rated, though the K-Universal and Manling are the best-suited to manueverability), be built and deployed? How about the 2000' long Splugorthian ships (WB7, p. 185)? The ones that can carry hundreds of power armor troops... even more when you replace the Gargoyles and Metzla with power armor or fighters? Why are they letting these be built if they're going to Thor shot things that might be space carriers?

You've also ignored that the orbitals know that nothing can get into space because of their counter-orbital debris field and killsats. That's been proven repeatedly. They know next to nothing of magic, and certainly not exotic magics like circles.

And this knowledge is relevant how?

Because to the knowledge of the orbitals, the way you get into space is by taking off and forcing your way out of a gravity well. You follow a nice, easy to target, trajectory, which gives killsats plenty of time to destroy anything that makes it past the debris field (which should rip things to shreds in the first place... even if it doesn't kill, it will make very vulnerable).

Since they don't know about magic, they don't know that the Splugorth can completely skip the debris field in LEO, inserting a fully loaded carrier (or even a variety of fighters; you can make that circle pretty big) to where they only have to deal with, at best, some of the killsats.

So, yes, in theory, they could do it. Never denied their technical capability. However, it requires them acting in a way they never have before, to take pre-emptive action against targets they've always left alone.

I'm back to my first question, who's building spacecraft and where are they based?

[/quote]

And I'm still asking "What about all the other things that could be spacecraft if you can only see them from above" or "What about the things they can't see"? The Splugorth have the capability to build spacecraft, and they have the capability to avoid LEO. The Naruni might be able to do it, but they don't have much of a manufacturing presence. The Arkhons could, they have a force in space that has already clashed with the Orbitals, and may or may not have ships on the ground that just need repair (WB9: p. 68). They're not being Thor-shotted, despite having attacked the Orbitals AND left to take over Mars.

If the orbitals are leaving the Arkhons alone, they're either technically incapable of launching a Thor shot (specifically targeting), or they don't bother to Thor-shot ground targets.

[Lenwen]

Also something of this size of an explosion easily puts it on the same lvl as the nuc's scenario ..

I'm guessing that any Psychic in the area is going to see it even more specifically then anything else ...

1- something bug huge is bout to fall on you ...

2- its not of this world ...

That would be all I need to know that it very well could be something of that calibre incomming on top of my head .. lol

-Lenwen.

[Daniel Stoker]

Really? Since you seem such a fan of circular logic, anwser these three questions: How many space carriers have been launched from Earth? Who launched them and from where?

So it's an opinion on what they may do using tech you think they should have to have. Gotcha!

Do you swat a fly with a hand grenade?

I don't kill every fly that comes near me either, but they sure do seem paranoid about anything getting out of earth.

Huh? So they don't routinely detect fast moving interplanetary objects and navigate trans-lunar distances? Perhaps you think they do this with a compass, sextant, and Timex watch?

Yes, because that's exaaactly what I said when I point out the book doesn't give them any super-sensors.

Who says that hasn't happened?

Well the fact that it's not mentioned at all in Phase World as a tactic from what I remember, but I was thinking more specifically and should have worded that better and just said Lord Splynncryth since we are talking about earth.


Daniel Stoker

[Samored II]

Sure, it's within their technical capabilities, but you've ignored other arguments. That other nations have attempted to launch into space, and the orbitals have left everything about them completely alone...

I'm sorry, to date who has tried launching anything that had a snowballs chance of penetrating the defense barrier?

I don't know. Do you have stats on what was launched?

Over 30 years ago the NGR launched a group of missiles, bots, and microscopic probes. That was the last attempt by an Earth-bound power to get anything into Orbit. (I'm discounting the Cosmo-Knight that left on his own from SA. He wasn't part of an organized nation-state.)

If the fly represented a disease that was threatening to wipe out my entire society (since they do consider the people on the ground quarrantined), and the only method I had of swatting it was a grenade? Yeah, I'd drop that rock.

Then what is your issue here? The situation you describe is radically different from the current setting.

So why are they going to let 240' spacecraft, capable of of carrying 32 powered armor suits (all of which are space-rated, though the K-Universal and Manling are the best-suited to manueverability), be built and deployed? How about the 2000' long Splugorthian ships (WB7, p. 185)? The ones that can carry hundreds of power armor troops... even more when you replace the Gargoyles and Metzla with power armor or fighters? Why are they letting these be built if they're going to Thor shot things that might be space carriers?

The fact that none of those could reach orbit through the defense network.

Because to the knowledge of the orbitals, the way you get into space is by taking off and forcing your way out of a gravity well. You follow a nice, easy to target, trajectory, which gives killsats plenty of time to destroy anything that makes it past the debris field (which should rip things to shreds in the first place... even if it doesn't kill, it will make very vulnerable).

Since they don't know about magic, they don't know that the Splugorth can completely skip the debris field in LEO, inserting a fully loaded carrier (or even a variety of fighters; you can make that circle pretty big) to where they only have to deal with, at best, some of the killsats.

Not so. The orbital defense network extends 19,000 miles from the surface. The debris field might not be as dense, but it would still be present. Also, the fact that the ships may be able to penetrate a significant portion of the defense network makes it more likely the Orbitals have prepositioned missiles in eliptical orbits to strike during the two hour secondary boost phase. Assuming that the carrier can instantly accelerate to Mach 10 after materialization.

And I'm still asking "What about all the other things that could be spacecraft if you can only see them from above"

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. If it doesn't, it's not.

or "What about the things they can't see"? The Splugorth have the capability to build spacecraft, and they have the capability to avoid LEO.

But not the entirety of the defenses. The Orbitals don't know Atlantis can skip the first 3600 miles but Splynncryth knows it's not far enough.

The Naruni might be able to do it, but they don't have much of a manufacturing presence. The Arkhons could, they have a force in space that has already clashed with the Orbitals, and may or may not have ships on the ground that just need repair (WB9: p. 68). They're not being Thor-shotted, despite having attacked the Orbitals AND left to take over Mars.

If the crash-landed ships could take off, they would have before now. IIRC they need help from the Arkhons in space to complete their repairs. If one of their ships headed towards orbit, it would get shot down. Since they don't, they don't get hit.

If the orbitals are leaving the Arkhons alone, they're either technically incapable of launching a Thor shot (specifically targeting), or they don't bother to Thor-shot ground targets.

Or the third option, they don't bother to Thor-shot ground targets that aren't a threat.

[Samored II]

Really? Since you seem such a fan of circular logic, anwser these three questions: How many space carriers have been launched from Earth? Who launched them and from where?

So it's an opinion on what they may do using tech you think they should have to have. Gotcha!

Stop trying to deflect and answer the question.

Yes, because that's exaaactly what I said when I point out the book doesn't give them any super-sensors.

But it gives them sensors that are far and away capable enough to drop rocks on Atlantis.

Well the fact that it's not mentioned at all in Phase World as a tactic from what I remember, but I was thinking more specifically and should have worded that better and just said Lord Splynncryth since we are talking about earth.


Daniel Stoker

So, back to my first question. What has Splynncryth done to identify him as a potential target?

[Daniel Stoker]

Stop trying to deflect and answer the question.

You didn't answer mine directly, so I figured I'd just answer it myself.

But it gives them sensors that are far and away capable enough to drop rocks on Atlantis.

It's not hard to hit a whole continent so yes, they do have the sensors for that for sure from what the book gives them.

So, back to my first question. What has Splynncryth done to identify him as a potential target?

Let's go back to mine first, so this means he has that anti-rock shield since someone would have used it as a tactic somewhere to take over one of his planets since they don't say that he's lost a planet or been attacked this way... right?


Daniel Stoker

[Samored II]

Woe, woe, woe....Hold the phone everyone. When I posted what I did about satallites, it wan't intended to turn this thread into a "Who would win? Splynn or some po dunk Obitals!"

To end this argument.
1) No!!! The orbital can't Just drop rocks in responce. They have Very very VERY sub light tech. They use mostly chemical burn tech. By the time they could react to anything Splynn was doing in orbit, they'd have been destroyed by him a week earlier.

Check again. There are five types of drive system in use by the Orbitals. The traction drive is capable of interstellar accelerations given sufficient time.

2) The Ort cloud is at the edge of the System. It'd take them months to get to and from it.

At the speeds their drives are capable of, 7-10 days round trip.

3) The Kill satellites are killer to the low tech age of the CS the attempted to reach Orbit. But Splynn has a fully functional (And canon) infastructure of tech three hundered years ahead of those satallites.
They are far too spaced apart and slow to react to a sploog space fleet...They are NOT a problem to him.

However, the counter-orbit debris field would be. Any Thor-class orbital defenses would be icing on the cake.

4) Ice Oxygen Units--(AKA IOUs) The money of the orbital IS the basis of their limited economy...Because ICE is so darn hard to come by. It's worth more than gold.
I doubt they'd waist even a single rock of it...Let alone have the time to implyment such an action.

Just about every orbital ship larger than a shuttle carries multiple tons of ice strapped to its hull. In any event, rocks are just as plentiful and even cheaper.

5) The FACT is that "Dragons and gods" says that "Intellegences Can use Proto Typical Deific" powers...But it also say at one step of cost higher...I doubt Splynnypoo would wish to use this attack considering how much it would weaken him! So, your both right...And wrong.
He would use lower magics and tech to get into orbit.
And he would be succesful.
It is, after all, called a Blitzkrieg.

It is, after all called wholesale slaughter.

[Samored II]

Welllll i don't need to check for what I already knew...And sufficant time is a year...That's 364 days after Splynnypoo killed off ever orbital.

Interstellar means between stars, the traction drive can develop relativistic velocities within a year's time.

At mach 4 to eight?? Its more like 8months. to Mars.
IF palladium books has realistic acceleration, than it'd still take a while to get to the cloud

The math says otherwise. For a brachistochrone orbit to Mars, the transit time is calculated as T=2*sqrt(D/A). D=380 million km, A=Mach 4 or 1.3km/sec/sec. Time solves to about 9.5 hours.

The Oort Cloud is considerably farther away, about 1000 times the orbit of Pluto, or 1 AU, depending of which Oort Cloud you're trying to reach. A brachistochrone orbit to the Oort cloud would take 32 days at mach 4 delta-V or 45 days at mach 8.

A). that debris would do minimal damage to the tech of Splynn

Using Palladium's conversion of 1MDC per 20 mph>50mph, a one pound rock will do 1797.5 mdc damage at a 10 mile/sec velocity. Orbital debris would close at 10-20 miles/sec. Splynn's technology level is irrelevant to that calculation.

B) That Thor-class would be shot out of the sky by the time it had repossitioned itself to fire. Remember, they're poised mostly to stop targets that come from the surface, not the just POP in behind them.

And if it were possible to simply POP in behind them, your statement would be correct. Since no one has managed to show how this could be accomplished, it remains wishful thinking.

[Natasha]

So last night I had a dream about when we launched Sputnik into space. And I was amazed the orbitals didn't destroy Baikonur before the little spiked basketball could get off the ground and put the fear of God Almighty into the United States.

[Natasha]

The Oort Cloud is considerably farther away, about 1000 times the orbit of Pluto, or 1 AU, depending of which Oort Cloud you're trying to reach.

I think it's further than one AU.

[lather]

The Oort Cloud is considerably farther away, about 1000 times the orbit of Pluto, or 1 AU, depending of which Oort Cloud you're trying to reach.

I think it's further than one AU.

Are you kidding? It's partly Oort Cloudy today.

[Lenwen]

Welllll i don't need to check for what I already knew...And sufficant time is a year...That's 364 days after Splynnypoo killed off ever orbital.

A -Interstellar means between stars, the traction drive can develop relativistic velocities within a year's time.

At mach 4 to eight?? Its more like 8months. to Mars.
IF palladium books has realistic acceleration, than it'd still take a while to get to the cloud

B-The math says otherwise. For a brachistochrone orbit to Mars, the transit time is calculated as T=2*sqrt(D/A). D=380 million km, A=Mach 4 or 1.3km/sec/sec. Time solves to about 9.5 hours.

The Oort Cloud is considerably farther away, about 1000 times the orbit of Pluto, or 1 AU, depending of which Oort Cloud you're trying to reach. A brachistochrone orbit to the Oort cloud would take 32 days at mach 4 delta-V or 45 days at mach 8.

A). that debris would do minimal damage to the tech of Splynn

C-Using Palladium's conversion of 1MDC per 20 mph>50mph, a one pound rock will do 1797.5 mdc damage at a 10 mile/sec velocity. Orbital debris would close at 10-20 miles/sec. Splynn's technology level is irrelevant to that calculation.

B) That Thor-class would be shot out of the sky by the time it had repossitioned itself to fire. Remember, they're poised mostly to stop targets that come from the surface, not the just POP in behind them.

D-And if it were possible to simply POP in behind them, your statement would be correct. Since no one has managed to show how this could be accomplished, it remains wishful thinking.

Ok lets adress this lmfao ...

A-The book givin speed is between mach 4 to 8 ... givin that guidline .. I'd say that by the time they even arrived to ANY "big" rocks Splyn would have either taken control of the orbitals .. or simply destroyed them flat out ..

B-Mach 1 = 761 mph at sea lvl . X 4 =3044 . 380'000'000 / 3044 (per hr) =124,835 hours .. or 5,201 days ..or ...14 years to reach mars .. At mach 8 simply divide the number by 2 which means 7 years to reach mars .. No clue where you got the number of 9.5 hours ...

The type of Orbital launch your talking about also means you have to wait till mars is in a certain closeness to earths own orbit for your orbital launch to even work .... or did you forget about that ?

C- It has been proven that not only COULD splyn pop in behind the Thor kill sats but that it would be more then feasible for him to rift in behind them with millions of samas styled Transformable fighters completly overwhelming anything the orbitals could do ..

I'm not here to convince you by any means... (You cant convince anyone unless they want to be convinced an you just dont want to be) just to show you that it is more then a viable option ..

Its been proven the time lengths of the mission to mars at mach 4 to 8 ..
In my estimation it would be hard for Lord Splynn to reach orbit doing so ..
But then again I simply ask why does he not simply open a rift on the dark side of the moon an launch a land based attack against the orbitals .. 50,000,000 Kydians knocking on the door of the Orbital with weapons locked , loaded and pointing at the orbitals wee wittle door ...
What exactly is the total population of the Orbitals ????

[Natasha]

Like this, I guess.

T = 2 * sqrt(D / A)
T = 2 * sqrt(380000000km / 1.36116km/second)
T = 2 * sqrt(279411765) seconds
T = 2 * 16715.6144 seconds
T = 33431.2288 seconds

T = 33431.2288 / 60 / 60 = 9.28645245 hours

[Natasha]

Like this, I guess.

T = 2 * sqrt(D / A)
T = 2 * sqrt(380000000km / 1.36116km/second)
T = 2 * sqrt(279411765) seconds
T = 2 * 16715.6144 seconds
T = 33431.2288 seconds

T = 33431.2288 / 60 / 60 = 9.28645245 hours

See, I never said you couldn't get to Mars quicker given real world physics of the year 2098...I just said given Palladiums top speed of Mach 4- to 8 it'd take you allllllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooottttttttttttttt longer. And since you math on just what the orbitals got is based on Pallaium Bookian physics, so should, therefor, you speed math Ahha ah ha ha...Your trapped by Rifts Physics.

Firstly, I'm not sure what you just said.
Secondly, I was just pointing out where the number comes from.
Finally, I'm not trapped anywhere.

[Lenwen]

Like this, I guess.

T = 2 * sqrt(D / A)
T = 2 * sqrt(380000000km / 1.36116km/second)
T = 2 * sqrt(279411765) seconds
T = 2 * 16715.6144 seconds
T = 33431.2288 seconds

T = 33431.2288 / 60 / 60 = 9.28645245 hours

See, I never said you couldn't get to Mars quicker given real world physics of the year 2098...I just said given Palladiums top speed of Mach 4- to 8 it'd take you allllllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooottttttttttttttt longer. And since you math on just what the orbitals got is based on Pallaium Bookian physics, so should, therefor, you speed math Ahha ah ha ha...Your trapped by Rifts Physics.

Firstly, I'm not sure what you just said.
Secondly, I was just pointing out where the number comes from.
Finally, I'm not trapped anywhere.

PRICELESS !!!!
Well said Natasha .

-Lenwen.

[Natasha]

Much warmer now. Thanks.

[Natasha]

I am the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Samored II]

That math is for earth bound masses...Remember, in space, no one can hear you scream!"....No wait, that's not the right sayn...It's in space you need to get up a Much higher velocity for mass do do any damage...And since Splynn has tech that canwithstand far greater impacts than what you listed (And since a one pound rock in space traveling at 20mph will do more like 1SDC) I'd say they're OKYYDOKKY fine.

Kinetic energy is .5M*V*V, in space or in atmosphere. And the calculation is 1mdc for every 20 mph > 50 mph. Orbital closing velocities are in miles per second.

I thought teleporting behind WAS that way of getting behind them

Teleportion does not have sufficient range to reach orbit. So you thought wrong.

[Samored II]

But let's use real world "Hohman Transfer Orbit" physics...Which give a time closer to 130 days. IF mars is close to earth. So I'd say getting to the ort cloud would take MUCH much longer...Getting back equally as long.

Some ships would use Holman Transfer Orbits, I used Brachistochrone Orbits because it best fit the criteria of ships the Orbitals had on hand.

And I don't know Why you guys are even caring to go there.... Why don't you go to the Asteroid Belt to get your massive rocks to throw at EeeeAAArth???

Or even use the Moon as a source of supply.

It's hella closer. 200 days tops on a strait shot, and alot sooner if you sling shot....Thems good speed....Upto M30+ in a short time, And you save more on gas than Gieco can on insurance.
But you should get there Even sooner if, YES, you Add in constant exceleration.

That's not written in a dialect of english I can understand.

But constant excelleration can only be maintained for aslong as you've got the fuel, and you require alot more fuel to slow down now, as you going faster. Even a TPS would be able to break fast enuff.

Brachistochrone orbits include a deceleration phase.

[Library Ogre]

I thought teleporting behind WAS that way of getting behind them

Teleportion does not have sufficient range to reach orbit. So you though wrong.

You keep saying that. You keep getting proved wrong. It may not evade the entirety of the space-born defenses, but 3600 miles is easily enough to reach orbit. And the debris field can't be much beyond LEO, or it would be too spread out too be useful.

[Lenwen]

I thought teleporting behind WAS that way of getting behind them

Teleportion does not have sufficient range to reach orbit. So you though wrong.

You keep saying that. You keep getting proved wrong. It may not evade the entirety of the space-born defenses, but 3600 miles is easily enough to reach orbit. And the debris field can't be much beyond LEO, or it would be too spread out too be useful.

PRICELESS ...

-Lenwen.

[Samored II]

1) The orbital would NOT bomb Atlantis if they see some new building go up...Even if they think it's to build a star ship, as Splynn has dozens in not hundereds of such buildings already in place...And they've not rocked splynns world as of yet.
The last thing they'd wanna do is **** off whatever is living ther.

Wrong. The Orbitals intend to contain Earth's inhabitants to the surface, or sub-orbital space <150 miles.

2) Splynnypoo has 3 fully populated worlds under his charge, and maybe dozens, if not hundereds of minor worlds, all with tech (Psionic, Magical, and normal new Coke style) FAR better than the old stuff the orbitals have got.

Three worlds. Period. No details on the industrial/technical base of any world or holding except Atlantis.

3) Even Naruni have an earth bound anti-grav fighter, that can enter orbit easy, so the sploos should be equal to that in tech.

Naruni technology is considered superior to that of the Splugorth. And the anti-gravity fighters don't routinely break orbit.

4) The Sploos have (as this thread was intended to point out) Techno-Wizzardy....And one of the most common TW-devices to get mentioned is TW Invisability (SUPERIOUR) which the Killer Sats and orbitals can't see past...No pun intended.
Next they've got shielding (force feilds) that can stop the counter orbital rocks...

If the armor or shields can absorb enough damage.

5) The orbit feild is not as great as you'd have us beleive it to be. The Archons survived it, and they didn't know it was there. Granted they got torn to shreds by it and the KSDI's, but They got taken mostly by suprise form the Rifts energys. that is what disrupted them the most, making them suseptable to the debris feild.
Splynn is 200 years aware of this problem... the field is a non-issue.

The Arkhons arrived in PA 74, 35 years ago, not 200. The Rift energy disrupted their space drive, it did nothing to their ship hull strength, and you were correct they were shredded by the defense barrier.

Besides...the feild And the KSDI's are not All thru-out Earths orbit...The rocks and SDI's set up by the Orbitals, are pointed at, and intended to stop flights from the surface of Earth. Not a sudden openingly opened portal which lauches an invisable ship....then closes.

How did the portal get there? No spell or ability has that kind of range except the Nazca defense grid.

The ship can easily move out of harms way of the feild in moments... Then use portals on board to port in the rest of their forces...Hack into the Killer sats, and take them over.

Interesting fantasy.

6) The ONLY issue for Splynn is the Feild of debris... And it is NOT , as we all know, existing in every foot of space for 10,000+/- miles of earths orbit...Cuz, if this was true...The KSDI's would get pegged by (as well as one or two of the Space Stations in Geo orbit) this feild.
It just doesn't go out that far.
Your in space at 150 miles up...who would have the feild that far out??? In that high of concentration.

According to Mutants in Orbit the defense field extends from approx. 150 miles out to 19,000 miles. Deal with it.

The feild is most likely not so dence as you (SAM) would have us think.
The Sploog ship would get banged up a little. Not much.

If the field density was 10 grains of sand per second any ship would take approx. 77000 mdc when trying to break into orbit at mach 10 after a 3600 mile Circle of Transportation boost.

[Samored II]

I thought teleporting behind WAS that way of getting behind them

Teleportion does not have sufficient range to reach orbit. So you though wrong.

You keep saying that. You keep getting proved wrong. It may not evade the entirety of the space-born defenses, but 3600 miles is easily enough to reach orbit. And the debris field can't be much beyond LEO, or it would be too spread out too be useful.

Per Mutants in Orbit, the defense barrier extends to 19,000 miles above Earth. Canon fact and equally priceless.

As I mentioned above, at a debris density of 1mg/cu-m a ship would take almost 80,000 mdc from impact hits alone when trying to reach a clear orbit above the debris field, even after the 3600 mile Circle boost and the best space engine in Atlantis. That still leaves the kill-sats and any Orbital craft to contend with.

[Lenwen]

1) The orbital would NOT bomb Atlantis if they see some new building go up...Even if they think it's to build a star ship, as Splynn has dozens in not hundereds of such buildings already in place...And they've not rocked splynns world as of yet.
The last thing they'd wanna do is **** off whatever is living ther.

Wrong. The Orbitals intend to contain Earth's inhabitants to the surface, or sub-orbital space <150 miles.

2) Splynnypoo has 3 fully populated worlds under his charge, and maybe dozens, if not hundereds of minor worlds, all with tech (Psionic, Magical, and normal new Coke style) FAR better than the old stuff the orbitals have got.

Three worlds. Period. No details on the industrial/technical base of any world or holding except Atlantis.

3) Even Naruni have an earth bound anti-grav fighter, that can enter orbit easy, so the sploos should be equal to that in tech.

Naruni technology is considered superior to that of the Splugorth. And the anti-gravity fighters don't routinely break orbit.

4) The Sploos have (as this thread was intended to point out) Techno-Wizzardy....And one of the most common TW-devices to get mentioned is TW Invisability (SUPERIOUR) which the Killer Sats and orbitals can't see past...No pun intended.
Next they've got shielding (force feilds) that can stop the counter orbital rocks...

If the armor or shields can absorb enough damage.

5) The orbit feild is not as great as you'd have us beleive it to be. The Archons survived it, and they didn't know it was there. Granted they got torn to shreds by it and the KSDI's, but They got taken mostly by suprise form the Rifts energys. that is what disrupted them the most, making them suseptable to the debris feild.
Splynn is 200 years aware of this problem... the field is a non-issue.

The Arkhons arrived in PA 74, 35 years ago, not 200. The Rift energy disrupted their space drive, it did nothing to their ship hull strength, and you were correct they were shredded by the defense barrier.

Besides...the feild And the KSDI's are not All thru-out Earths orbit...The rocks and SDI's set up by the Orbitals, are pointed at, and intended to stop flights from the surface of Earth. Not a sudden openingly opened portal which lauches an invisable ship....then closes.

How did the portal get there? No spell or ability has that kind of range except the Nazca defense grid.

The ship can easily move out of harms way of the feild in moments... Then use portals on board to port in the rest of their forces...Hack into the Killer sats, and take them over.

Interesting fantasy.

6) The ONLY issue for Splynn is the Feild of debris... And it is NOT , as we all know, existing in every foot of space for 10,000+/- miles of earths orbit...Cuz, if this was true...The KSDI's would get pegged by (as well as one or two of the Space Stations in Geo orbit) this feild.
It just doesn't go out that far.
Your in space at 150 miles up...who would have the feild that far out??? In that high of concentration.

According to Mutants in Orbit the defense field extends from approx. 150 miles out to 19,000 miles. Deal with it.

The feild is most likely not so dence as you (SAM) would have us think.
The Sploog ship would get banged up a little. Not much.

If the field density was 10 grains of sand per second any ship would take approx. 77000 mdc when trying to break into orbit at mach 10 after a 3600 mile Circle of Transportation boost.

Thought I already solved this ..
ONE Circle of Teleportation (3600miles) into orbit ...
TWO Teleport yet again at 10th lvl (3,000miles) 6 times more ...
THREE The entire counter orbit as well as Killsats are now a nonethreat ..
FOUR Under ship power head to the moon ...
FIVE Exit the Craft ... This takes several melee's ...
SIX Open a Dimensional Rift directly the the Kittani homeworld (which) Is controlled by Lord Splynn ...build up several million troop's in anticipation of a mini theater contained encounter ..
SEVEN Go knock on the Orbital's front door an say I'm the new ruler ..

-Lenwen.

[Lenwen]

If the field density was 10 grains of sand per second any ship would take approx. 77000 mdc when trying to break into orbit at mach 10 after a 3600 mile Circle of Transportation boost.

If ... ?

Here we go again .. you fight facts with ... IF's ....

But on the plus side you have piqued my interest now on exactly what the debre field's density is .. I do not think it is has Dense as you claim it to be . But niether do I think it is as hollow as some of us think either ... yeah there are going to be tons of debre out there but the fact is that it is not going to be like the rings of Saturn out there ....

-Lenwen.

[Samored II]

Thought I already solved this ..
ONE Circle of Teleportation (3600miles) into orbit ...

Good so far.

TWO Teleport yet again at 10th lvl (3,000miles) 6 times more ...

You can't cast spells while falling and taking constant damage from the debris field.

THREE The entire counter orbit as well as Killsats are now a nonethreat ..
FOUR Under ship power head to the moon ...

Can't teleport the ship, it's over the weight limit

FIVE Exit the Craft ... This takes several melee's ...
SIX Open a Dimensional Rift directly the the Kittani homeworld (which) Is controlled by Lord Splynn ...build up several million troop's in anticipation of a mini theater contained encounter ..
SEVEN Go knock on the Orbital's front door an say I'm the new ruler ..

-Lenwen.

All irrelevant since steps two or four can't be accomplished.

[Samored II]

If the field density was 10 grains of sand per second any ship would take approx. 77000 mdc when trying to break into orbit at mach 10 after a 3600 mile Circle of Transportation boost.

If ... ?

Here we go again .. you fight facts with ... IF's ....

It's called verisimilitude. I thinks Rifts should have it.

But on the plus side you have piqued my interest now on exactly what the debre field's density is .. I do not think it is has Dense as you claim it to be . But niether do I think it is as hollow as some of us think either ... yeah there are going to be tons of debre out there but the fact is that it is not going to be like the rings of Saturn out there ....

Doesn't have to be Rings of Saturn dense. Grains of sand at orbital velocities will shred anything that spends the amount of time needed to transit into orbit. And that still leaves active defenses like the kill-sats and the Orbitals.

[sasha]

The colours and the broken quotes really make this impossible to follow; as if I were

[Samored II]

Errppp...No disputing what they intend to do, never was...But like I said, They have not yet attacked despite the fact that there are alotta buildings bult in splynn and other sploog holdings, that could pass as launch facilitys.

And I could pass for an NBA power forward, until you saw me play basketball. Show me where any Atlantis facilities have launched anything into orbit and I'll show you the Orbitals response.

But we can GUESS can't we??? We can still do that can't we??? It is what you done a whole lot of yourself, and you guessed based on nothing. Mine are based on the Fact that we know what he's got now on Earth, which was not his first world!!

Guess all you like but canon is canon and my arguements are closer to canon than yours.

3) Even Naruni have an earth bound anti-grav fighter, that can enter orbit easy, so the sploos should be equal to that in tech.

Yes...Yes I know Naruni's tech is better...But considering you can find Anti-grav tech in the low tech enviroment of HUL. I think it's safe to say splynn at least has tech equal to them.

What are the specs of an HUL spacecraft? And while you're at it give the book and page of the Atlantis holdings.

True...It is not known Just how much damage they can take...But we (I and you) do not know just how dence the partical feild truly is...We can not go on with this discussion till we get a diffinative from KS on this.[/color]

It's dense enough to extend over 18,000 miles and has stopped over 90% of everything that ever tried to reach orbit. As I've demonstrated even an extremely low debris density would be nearly instantaly fatal to anything attempting to breach the barrier.

[Samored II]

And I stated quite well that the SDI was a non-issue for an invisable ship.[/color]

And you ignored the debris field, or you seem to think invisibility would provide some measure of protection when dodging rocks and sand.

[Lenwen]

Thought I already solved this ..
ONE Circle of Teleportation (3600miles) into orbit ...

Good so far.

TWO Teleport yet again at 10th lvl (3,000miles) 6 times more ...

You can't cast spells while falling and taking constant damage from the debris field.

THREE The entire counter orbit as well as Killsats are now a nonethreat ..
FOUR Under ship power head to the moon ...

Can't teleport the ship, it's over the weight limit

FIVE Exit the Craft ... This takes several melee's ...
SIX Open a Dimensional Rift directly the the Kittani homeworld (which) Is controlled by Lord Splynn ...build up several million troop's in anticipation of a mini theater contained encounter ..
SEVEN Go knock on the Orbital's front door an say I'm the new ruler ..

-Lenwen.

All irrelevant since steps two or four can't be accomplished.

TWO Prove that a mage cant cast while falling .. I say he can .. all he has to do is consentrate an while your up at 3600 miles straight up you wont be falling anywhere fast enough to make a difference ...

Again the Debre field ... Prove its density ... before you say its going to actually stop anything ...

THREE You can easily bio-engineer the Spell itself into the Ship an thusly enable the entire ship to teleport ... That is well within the scope of abilities of the Splugorth ..

You say its irrelevent since you Assume a mage at 3600 miles up is falling fast enough to disturb his consentration , and or getting hit by your grains of sand ...

The whole arguement your trying to debate has YET to be proven by YOU

Yet Time and time an time again people PROVE Exactly how something would work ..

So PROVE several things ...
ONE The Density of the Debre Field ..
TWO That a mage at 3600 miles up is falling fast enough to disrupt his spell casting ability ..
THREE That the Splugorthians CANT build a bio-engineer'ed system that can teleport thier ships ...

-Lenwen.

[Samored II]

K....You got me, no portal spells of hand go that far, But Teleport:Superior does...300miles PLEx, that,s over 4500 miles for Splynny himself (Before Lines)...Considering he Live on a mega Nexus tho...We're looking at 13,500 miles.

So he's going himself, all alone with no guards or even a ship to fly in? Because Teleport: Superior doesn't have the payload to take a ship along with him. So he'd be stuck 5,500 miles inside the radiation belt, with no life support, no propulsion, and be taking damage every second from hyper-velocity grains of sand and bits of gravel. Praying to whatever gods he worships that nothing really heavy comes along and splatters him three-quarters of the way around LEO. That's the way he's lived 70,000 years? By taking those kinds of risks? Bit of a waste of that super-genius intelligence if you ask me.

conversely, he could just open a Dimesional portal t\from one of his world, to the moons surface, alot cheaper, take the moon and be even better off

That tactic requires some knowledge of the target location. Of which he has none.

Since when did Splynns tech drop so low as to not be able to pull off this simple feat...And who's the one who makes up Fantasy???

Which part? The instant translation of a spaceship by multiple thousands of miles or the long range hacking of an object moving 10-20 miles/second?

I never Made up the feild density of the debris feild...But I did point out that the arkhons got through, Beat up, but through.

And the fact that it would be easier to go down through the debris field than up just escaped you.

You saying that last part is just you being both rude and dismissive, but not stating even one reason why it can't be done.

You made the claim parsimony makes it incumbent on you to support it.

[Samored II]

TWO Prove that a mage cant cast while falling .. I say he can .. all he has to do is consentrate an while your up at 3600 miles straight up you wont be falling anywhere fast enough to make a difference ...

Falling and taking damage. It's a boolean operator.

Again the Debre field ... Prove its density ... before you say its going to actually stop anything ...

At any density greater than atmosphere.

THREE You can easily bio-engineer the Spell itself into the Ship an thusly enable the entire ship to teleport ... That is well within the scope of abilities of the Splugorth ..

Uh Huh. Given one example where someone in Splyncryyth's empire has bio-engineered a Spell into a ship. Unless you're trying to argue the entire ship is a gigantic rune weapon.

You say its irrelevent since you Assume a mage at 3600 miles up is falling fast enough to disturb his consentration , and or getting hit by your grains of sand ...

The debris field is there, a mage would get hit by it. Once hit he takes massive mdc damage (1 MDC/20 mph >50 mph and orbital debris moves at 10-20 miles per second) and the spell gets disrupted. Once the spell gets disrupted he's wasted the PPE and has to start over, all the while accelerating towards Earth.

The whole arguement your trying to debate has YET to be proven by YOU

Yet Time and time an time again people PROVE Exactly how something would work ..

How is constructing obviously unworkable schemes proof of anything but someones imagination? Time and again you prove how somehting would work except for abilities something doesn't have, or spells without sufficient range, or without any knowledge of the orbital environment.

So PROVE several things ...
ONE The Density of the Debre Field ..

It exists and any any density at, or above, 1mg/m^3 would be almost instantly lethal.

TWO That a mage at 3600 miles up is falling fast enough to disrupt his spell casting ability ..

Irrelevant since I stipulated falling and taking damage.

THREE That the Splugorthians CANT build a bio-engineer'ed system that can teleport thier ships ...

Parsimony. You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you.

[Lenwen]

TWO Prove that a mage cant cast while falling .. I say he can .. all he has to do is consentrate an while your up at 3600 miles straight up you wont be falling anywhere fast enough to make a difference ...

Falling and taking damage. It's a boolean operator.

Again the Debre field ... Prove its density ... before you say its going to actually stop anything ...

At any density greater than atmosphere.

THREE You can easily bio-engineer the Spell itself into the Ship an thusly enable the entire ship to teleport ... That is well within the scope of abilities of the Splugorth ..

Uh Huh. Given one example where someone in Splyncryyth's empire has bio-engineered a Spell into a ship. Unless you're trying to argue the entire ship is a gigantic rune weapon.

You say its irrelevent since you Assume a mage at 3600 miles up is falling fast enough to disturb his consentration , and or getting hit by your grains of sand ...

The debris field is there, a mage would get hit by it. Once hit he takes massive mdc damage (1 MDC/20 mph >50 mph and orbital debris moves at 10-20 miles per second) and the spell gets disrupted. Once the spell gets disrupted he's wasted the PPE and has to start over, all the while accelerating towards Earth.

The whole arguement your trying to debate has YET to be proven by YOU

Yet Time and time an time again people PROVE Exactly how something would work ..

How is constructing obviously unworkable schemes proof of anything but someones imagination? Time and again you prove how somehting would work except for abilities something doesn't have, or spells without sufficient range, or without any knowledge of the orbital environment.

So PROVE several things ...
ONE The Density of the Debre Field ..

It exists and any any density at, or above, 1mg/m^3 would be almost instantly lethal.

TWO That a mage at 3600 miles up is falling fast enough to disrupt his spell casting ability ..

Irrelevant since I stipulated falling and taking damage.

THREE That the Splugorthians CANT build a bio-engineer'ed system that can teleport thier ships ...

Parsimony. You made the claim, the burden of proof is on you.

Yet again you have not stepped up to the plate an answered anything Sam

ONE Whats the density of the Debre feild ?
TWO Why cant the mage cast while slowly fallin at 3600miles up ?
THREE Splugorthian Bio-Engineered Vessels start at Pg 173 They include hovor Plateforms , Boats , Pods , all the way up to Ballons , an even Frigate sized ships ...

Yet again I've proven what you have asked of me ...

Why cant you prove to me what I ask of you ??

Or is it simply cause your "claims" of what the Debre field can do .. is in actuality not even close to what the debre field can do ...

If that be thy case I would not answer either

-Lenwen.

[Samored II]

[

Yet again you have not stepped up to the plate an answered anything Sam

ONE Whats the density of the Debre feild ?

It averages greater than 1mg/m^3.

TWO Why cant the mage cast while slowly fallin at 3600miles up ?

Because magic can't be cast while taking knock-back mdc damage.

THREE Splugorthian Bio-Engineered Vessels start at Pg 173 They include hovor Plateforms , Boats , Pods , all the way up to Ballons , an even Frigate sized ships ...

Page 173 of what? And what are the specs of bio-engineered spacecraft?

[Lenwen]

[

Yet again you have not stepped up to the plate an answered anything Sam

ONE Whats the density of the Debre feild ?

It averages greater than 1mg/m^3.

TWO Why cant the mage cast while slowly fallin at 3600miles up ?

Because magic can't be cast while taking knock-back mdc damage.

THREE Splugorthian Bio-Engineered Vessels start at Pg 173 They include hovor Plateforms , Boats , Pods , all the way up to Ballons , an even Frigate sized ships ...

Page 173 of what? And what are the specs of bio-engineered spacecraft?

My apologies .. Splynn D-Market pg 173 .. All ships can be made to travel underwater an as thus enabled to travel underwater it would easily stand up to space travel as well ..

Altho that is not your arguement .. Your arguement was this ...

Uh Huh. Given one example where someone in Splyncryyth's empire has bio-engineered a Spell into a ship. Unless you're trying to argue the entire ship is a gigantic rune weapon

So I gave you more then enough proof that not only is it possible that the Splugorth can engineer Bio-Wizard ships but I gave you cannon proof of that very fact ..

Now for a question for you ...
Does this

greater than 1mg/m^3

Mean that every single molocule in orbit is a counter orbit piece of sand ?
What exactly does it equat to ? 1Part per million / 1 part per thousand / 1 part per hundred

Honestly whats it mean ?

-Lenwen.

[Lenwen]

TWO Why cant the mage cast while slowly fallin at 3600miles up ?

Because magic can't be cast while taking knock-back mdc damage.

Your whole arguement is dependent upon the debre feild's exact size width by length by higth by density ..

I think the Debre feild is not much more then one or two parts per sq mile .. an if thier at that size .. getting a single being in a fighter styled ship would be super easy to get past it ..

-Lenwen.