Improvised Weapons Skill

[verdilak]

Alright, trying to gather together improvised weapon damages and whatnot from the various PB titles..

BTS2
Make Molotov Cocktails (gives no damage or range)
Hairspray mini-flame thrower 2d6 dmg 6ft range
Flammable Chemicals (doesnt specify)

N&SS
Any found object not usually considered a weapon (anything from pencils, to bottles, to credit cards) does 1d6 damage in hand to hand combat. Throwing such weapons do 1d4 damage.
Found flexible objects (t-shirts, coat-hangers, plastic bags) can bu used for Choke Attacks, doing 1d4 damage per melee.


Anyone know of any others?

And I am thinking that if we were to compile them all, it would be 2 skills, like 1 skill to know how to use such in a fight, and a WP skill for the actual usage. You would roll on the skill when you find such item, seeing if it is useful, or roll on it before/during combat (wont use up a combat action if you have th skill, if you dont, then it will to size it up) and then if you pass, you get to use the WP bonuses during that combat.

What do you think?

[verdilak]

If you're not devoting a few years' training to it, the resulting bonuses should come to less than Moo Gi Gong's benefits.*
I'd actually suggest making it at least three WPs, for many reasons. I say WPs because modern weapon proficiencies all carry an extra skill percentage allowing you a percentile chance of recognizing a weapon's level of quality, which if extended to improvised flame throwers and molotovs means recognizing that hair spray's capabilities according to brand, current weight and such; and in Mutants Down Under, the WPs and instrument skills also give skilled characters the ability to create weapons from their environment.
Taking a shot at this, I'd say perhaps WP Improvised Incendiary, WP Improvised Thrown, and WP Improvised Pointy Thing. (No, I wouldn't really call it that.) Each of these should offer a percentage chance to accurately appraise surrounding objects for dangerous effect and the ability to improvise modest weapons from said objects.
You'll notice I left out WP Chain and WP Blunt. You should consider WP Improvised Chain so as to delineate its benefits, bonuses and damages, but WP Improvised Blunt really seems unnecessary. If you're just looking for a blunt object, pick one up and use it.

*On the balance, Moo Gi Gong does give paired proficiency with all weapons as well as all found objects, and you're only looking at found objects. Since this difference isn't easily summed and counted, in the end it's a judgement call.

Nod, with the Aboriginal WP's, they know how to make each weapon from the WP. Unfortunately, that doesnt help me that much.

I dont see any need for Improvised Chain or Blunt, since the main WP's already cover everything in that regard.

And yes, Moo Gi Gong gives usage with found objects,but its gained at 1st level as well as with Paired Weapons, in a system where to have Paired Weapons, you had to use up 3 skills (one WP for each hand, and then the Paired), so thats much more valuable than the improvised weapons as given by that HtH.

Any other damages/ranges/Crunch given in any of the other books on non-standard weapons?

EDIT: SO for Moo Gi Gong, the act of gaining Paired Weapons in every WP is a cost of at least 42 [14x3] skills (if you are just counting the 14 WP 18 weapons HtH gives you; 18 weapons gives you 14 WP and 4 Paired weapons).

[Nekira Sudacne]

The Mystic China (Not Rifts China, N&SS Supplement here), Has the Improvised Weapon skill that...basically does exsactly what it says and lets you use any object as a weapon.

Oh, and Verdilak, where does it say you need 1 WP for each hand? I don't recall that rule anywhere.

[verdilak]

The Mystic China (Not Rifts China, N&SS Supplement here), Has the Improvised Weapon skill that...basically does exsactly what it says and lets you use any object as a weapon.

Oh, and Verdilak, where does it say you need 1 WP for each hand? I don't recall that rule anywhere.

Where is it at in MC? It's not listed with the other WP's... at least I can't find it.

And it says so in TMNT...

Page 23,

Weapon Proficiencies: Skills like Archery and Ninjitsu provide W.P. However, each weapon requires a separate skill. For example, someone wanting skill in Ninja Bow AND Samurai Bow would have to take Archery skills twice.

Another important example would be that of Paired Weapons. Suppose you wanted to use a pair of Sais (like Raphael of the T.M.N.T.), you would need one skill for the first Sai, another skill for the second Sai, and still a third skill in Paired Weapons.

Now, the newer rules state you must have Paired Weapons for each dual of weapons,

HU2

Page 61,

For example, the character may be skilled in paired short swords or paired axe and short sword, but not both (that would require two paired weapons skills)

[verdilak]

Right. So my point is, whatever the benefits you confer to folks what pick these skills you're designing, the benefits need to be less than the benefits of Moo Gi Gong because of how much less they're putting into it.
And since not all of Moo Gi Gong's benefits are easily summed and enumerated, whereas the benefits of these skills mostly will be, that'll be a judgement call.

Now for the more interesting question. Moo Gi Gong lists damages for improvised weapons in the hands of a Moo Gi Gong martial artist of sufficient level and strength to gain supernatural powers (other martial arts giving Zenjoriki at this same stage of development.) Are these also the damages used by non-martial artists?
Of course, that's really beside the point. You want damage ratings for somebody trained in the use of improvised weapons, so perhaps they can get the same damage out of it.

Well... I would assume that if you are trained in Improvised Weaponry, you would do the same about of damage as a 1st level Moo Gi Gong-ist, simply because they gain WP in ALL Ancient Weapons, and Paired in ALL weapons... which by N&SS rules, means the same as HU2, which is 12 skills for the WP, and 55 skills for the Paired Weapons (if you were to buy them all separately). And I believe there is only 1 Martial Art that gives powers at level 1, so being able to do damage with Improvised Weapons at level 1 is not that difficult. I might take out the "deals 1d6 when used in Hand to Hand" and make them all do 1d4 either by throwing or by hand to hand, to give the Moo Gi Gong-ist a slightly higher upper hand, but thats about it.

[verdilak]

Nod... what upper hand to give is hard to determine. I'll have to look again, but I didnt think Moo Gi Gong gave any parry/strike bonuses to using found objects, though it does give bonuses to damage... so by going off of the damage aspect, i think training in an improvised weapon skill would give found objects like those described in Moo Gi Gong would only deal 1d4 damage, whether you are throwing it or are using it in hand to hand combat.

Now i just need to determine damages for other improvised weapons that would be under WP blunt, like chairs, trash cans (full and empty), lamps, mirrors (would also fall under a "sharp" WP once broken), tables, computers, ect. I would love to get just about everyint stated out in the form of damages, since I like it when my players and my own characters use that table lamp to throw at the villian and whatnot.

[verdilak]

Well... TMNT was a license held by Palladium, which it no longer does. So i guess its up to Laird and Eastman, who would love to know people still love their stuff.

As far as weight and speed and height to deal with damage... gotta find out the speed humans punch with, and the force, then tabulate that into differential determinations based upon different PS...

lets make sure its not in a book somewhere first lol

Actually, i DO have a book on Improvised Weapons.... its not PB material, but let me see if I can find it and the damages it suggest (since its for any system).

[verdilak]

Here is a basis (still havent found the rule in MC... Nekira, please enlighten us?) or starting point of what I am thinking of...

If you do not train for Improvised Weapons, you have a penalty to Strike and Parry.
-1 for tiny objects like pencils and pens
-2 small objects, like wine bottles
-3 medium sized objects, like chairs, ottomans, televisions, trash cans, ect.
-4 for large and cumbersome objects, like tables, couches, refrigerators, ect.

Material Types and Damages

If an object is made up of at least 60% of a certain material, it is considered to be the core material. For example, a picture hanging on the wall has a wooden frame, but most of the painting is made of cloth/fabric. Therefor it inflicts damage as a cloth weapon. An attacker can shift the picture frame to inflict damage based on the wood of the frame, but is -2 to strike.

Core Material (for every 5lbs) Types of attacks
Glass 1d4
Leather 1d2
Wood 1d4
Metal 1d6
Cloth 1 point of damage
Bone 1d4
Brick 1d8
Ceramic 1d6

Containers that are filled at least 3/4ths of the way inflict double damage.

Throwing an opponent into an object will inflict half damage, unless it is small, then it will do no damage due to it simply falling over.

Breaking Rating

If an object inflicts more damage than it's breaking rating in one attack (including PS bonuses), the object is broken beyond use for either it's original purpose. However, most objects, once broken, are now able to continue to deal damage in a fight, with less area to fight with. In this regard, there is a cumulative penalty of -1 to Strike and Parry for each breaking.


Core Material (for every 5lbs) Breaking Rating
Glass 4
Leather 6
Wood 4
Metal 12
Cloth 1
Bone 4
Brick 8
Ceramic 6

Containers that are filled 3/4th of the way can take double the normal amount of damage before breaking.

[verdilak]

Okay, I found the skill in MC... and it pretty much sucks.

Gives no damages to anything (so in reality, you would use whats in the book already and use the damages set down in Moo-Gi-Gone), and gives you the normal +1 to damage, strike, parry every few levels, but you can only pick one of them to get the bonus. So at level 3, you can get a +1 to either strike OR parry....