When players kill a treasured NPC.

[TheLlamaFarmer]

I was running a HU game, one of the NPCs was a latent psycic detecctive. I was thinking of taking him and running him as a PC in a game. One problem, he was killed off by player inaction. I know there's nothing stopping me from playing him in anther game, but with all the same people in the gaming group it would be odd to have him pop up and say "I'm not quite dead yet".

Anyways, that's my lament.

[Killer Cyborg]

Never use a NPC you can't afford to lose.

[lather]

NPC pets are bad, mkay.

[LostOne]

If the character is important to the plot, fudge some and say that he has the Multiple Lives super power.

Bring in his cousin/uncle/father or other family member. This is the person that inspired your dead NPC to go into their OCC. The cousin/uncle/father is the same only with a twist, more gung-ho, more hardcore, or more sensitive, or darker personality, etc.

[Dog_O_War]

Forget the guy and move on. Why? well the answer is in this question;


Why would you want to play a character that the other members of your gaming group don't like or didn't care about? I mean, if they didn't lift a finger to save him from death last time, what makes this time any different?

[drewkitty ~..~]

I was running a HU game, one of the NPCs was a latent psychic detective. I was thinking of taking him and running him as a PC in a game. One problem, he was killed off by player inaction. I know there's nothing stopping me from playing him in anther game, but with all the same people in the gaming group it would be odd to have him pop up and say "I'm not quite dead yet".

Anyways, that's my lament.

Why not? The super hero Comics industry does that "my death was much exaggerated" bit often. Or they just revive them or "I'm his little brother/sister". or "I inherited his powers/mantle".

Unless he was 'blown to bits', there is always a possibility that his body was 'experimented' on and was brought back to life or revived him from a dormant state.

[LostOne]

TheLlamaFarmer:
Could you tell us specifically how he died? Maybe that will inspire us to more ideas that better fit the situation.

[Vrykolas2k]

I usually kill GMPCs as a player (regardless of allignment).
I don't use them as a GM.
NPCs are supposed to be mostly in the back-ground, the PCs are supposed to have 80% of the limelight, so I grieve not when an NPC becomes one with the force.
I just make a new one.

[Lenwen]

Within the last couple days I've created a one of a kind splugorthian Octoman Phaeton juicer and let me tell you at 12th lvl this dude is insain ... Gods help me if my PC's ever kill this dude .. he has 18 attacks per melee in Flying Types of Power Armor ... not including all the other variable +'s to everything else ...

[LostOne]

Within the last couple days I've created a one of a kind splugorthian Octoman Phaeton juicer and let me tell you at 12th lvl this dude is insain ... Gods help me if my PC's ever kill this dude .. he has 18 attacks per melee in Flying Types of Power Armor ... not including all the other variable +'s to everything else ...

I'm not sure what this post has to do with the topic of this thread. Is he the NPC in the group?

Also, I'm trying to picture how an octoman fits in most power armors that are designed for humanoids with 2 arms 2 legs and a head. Most power armors don't leave a lot of room. I don't remember the Octoman at all, but I'm imagining he has 8 arms, so that could cause a problem.

[Lenwen]

Within the last couple days I've created a one of a kind splugorthian Octoman Phaeton juicer and let me tell you at 12th lvl this dude is insain ... Gods help me if my PC's ever kill this dude .. he has 18 attacks per melee in Flying Types of Power Armor ... not including all the other variable +'s to everything else ...

I'm not sure what this post has to do with the topic of this thread. Is he the NPC in the group?

Also, I'm trying to picture how an octoman fits in most power armors that are designed for humanoids with 2 arms 2 legs and a head. Most power armors don't leave a lot of room. I don't remember the Octoman at all, but I'm imagining he has 8 arms, so that could cause a problem.

He is my newest npc for a grp ..

An as an octoman he can easily squeeze into what ever a normal human can too .. just like a octopus could squeeze into postions concept ..

[LostOne]

What book is the octoman in?

In any case, I'm guessing the extra attacks he gets from having extra pairs of limbs shouldn't be usable in a power armor because his extra limbs aren't being used.

[Lenwen]

What book is the octoman in?

In any case, I'm guessing the extra attacks he gets from having extra pairs of limbs shouldn't be usable in a power armor because his extra limbs aren't being used.

+ attacks is a racial thing ... so I am guessing it is.. otherwise .. itwould say ...
Not usable if in robot or power armors....


Course I could inevitably be wrong ...it would not be the firsttime ..

*EDIT*
Check Splynn World Book Atlantis book 2 ....

[bigbobsr6000]

All my NPC's are "disposable". Most times they take a key element to the game with them, if they die to soon.

[Jerell]

Exactly! That's the way it should be done. Bigbob's (once again ruthless) way is the best to 'learn them dice jockeys' that their actions or lack there of have impacts on their world. I think your game will be better for it if you listen to what the big guy has to say.

If you did a really good job with them, the players will probably miss your NPC, and with any luck, they may start to show genuine concern for NPCs that they either like, or find useful. But do not bring them back. That just shows those no good players that they can kill, or let die whoever they want with little or no concern. If a 'power vacuum' is left, then I fill it with something else and different when needed, or when appropriate. But it's never the same.

[bigbobsr6000]

Usually if villian NPC, even thugs, are captured instead of "kill-em-all" attitude, the PCs might get info from them key to the mission/campaign or a least a bit of info that leads to another bit of info.

Sometimes captured thugs for hire can be persuaded to work for the PCs if the price is right.

I also have villians and thugs that fight to the death or if captured, crack that hollow tooth with fatal toxin/poison inside. Or have that hidden explosive they trigger

I mix it up to keep all PCs on their toes. They never know what the NPCs will do or how they will react if captured.

Friendly or indefferent NPC with party usually has a skill, contacts, device, etc. unbeknownest to the PCs that can aid them in their pursuit. If the PCs snubb this guy, kill him, let him be killed, etc. The mission becomes harder. Again I throw in NPCs with the party that can't help them at all. I mix it up. Keeps the PCs wondering "Should we keep this guy?"

If you do this stuff consistantly, players will soon learn not to "Kill 'em all and let the dieties sort them out." Players will actually intervene with other pllayers who want to "kill 'em all."

Just some thoughts from an old gamer

[bigbobsr6000]

I have had rival NPC party in pursuit of same goal or quest as PCs. Like "Indiana Jones" he and Nazi's after same item. Or like "National Treasure" with the heroes being in competition with the "bad" party searching for the treasure. It keeps the PCs on mission and competitive to see who gets their first.

Good thoughts, macksting.

[Syndicate]

...*sigh*....Red Death...



The memories...

[Aramanthus]

Make sure he has a minion with the phoenix tattoo and enough PPE to use it. That brings that enemy back to challenge your players again. And if not that, then I'm sure other suggested that you have the NPC have some clones chambers and make sure he is equipped with some devices which allow his personality to transfer to his new body.

[LostOne]

Or make sure he has the Multiple Lives superpower. That way the PCs can eventually kill him for good, but naturally it won't be until after a huge epic climactic battle.

[Aramanthus]

I agree. Don't let him die in some cheap little minor conflict. A major villian needs to die at a point which is satisfing to the overall storyline.

[Balabanto]

If he's an NPC, the only thing I do is shrug. Well, he's dead.

GMPC's are another matter. I've learned it's hard to create bonds between characters in rifts, and even harder to keep players from doing stupid things. It's hard to separate character knowledge and player knowledge. Someone did try to murder one of my GMPC's once. Unfortunately, he forgot some of the abilities of the other players and managed to get himself killed elsewhere. I didn't particularly understand why he chose the actions that he did, but in general, I've learned that if you want to kill someone else's PC, GM or no, you should probably try and do it WHEN THEY'RE ALONE!

In general, though, when an NPC dies, unless he has some means of being brought back, is friends with White Rose Knights, knows a Ley Line Walker with 5000 PPE of gems, etc, he dies. If you really like an NPC and want to make sure he stays around, give him the tools he needs beforehand instead of whitewashing it afterwards. And if you REALLY love the NPC and the players hate it, write it down.

[ZorValachan]

Keep the NPC dead. As a GM you -MUST- remain impartial, fair, and consistant (at least in the eyes of the players). Resurrecting dead NPCs, just because they are favourites either in the same game or in another game where you are a player lessens your credibility to be a fair arbitrator of a game and has the chance of hurting -any- future game you might GM. This is also true for favourite PCs who die, then get resurrected as NPCs when the player later GMs.

Cases in Point.
In one Palladium Fantasy campaign, the GM had a favourite PC based off 'Highlander' (before the TV series, lol that long ago). The character died, legitimately. Since then she has shown up in almost every fantasy game he has GMed with an 'alternate' history on how she really didn't die... It's been a sore point in this gaming group for upwards of 15 years.

In a 15 year game group reunion game we played last year, as a GM he saved -every- freakin PC he ever had die in any fantasy game. Back then all games were linked together by my own 'universe background'. The session's main plot, plot-twist was ingenious. He took my main ideas and threw me for a loop. A major part of the plot I and everyone thought had to be X was in fact Y, and that aspect was great. But at the end of the session, when we left and were talking about the game, the 'saving his dead PCs' left a bitter taste in our mouths. A wonderful, great night bringing back the best of memories left us sour to try it again this year.

Other times in the past he would have NPCs killed by players resurrected by telling the player in the next session 'oh, btw, your character for some reason didn't really chop off that guys head. You figure out why'..... just a lot of bad mojo and people leaving his games for such.

On the other hand I had an NPC who seemed to be a favourite of mine. Got away with bad mouthing so many parties the players hated him as much as their characters:P One of those 'I'm more powerful than 100x your group 'god NPCs'. Well, he sacrificed himself to save the party against an even greater threat. The party didn't directly witness it, but he is dead with no option of coming back... But, he left them a few 'gifts' so he still is affecting them in some way.

The 'apprentice' to take over can be a good alternative. But also, 'what if -he- was the apprentice and there was a bigger-badder master behind him?' Or a rival he had that comes in to fill the power vacuum he left.

I also like the rival party idea and have used it in the past. 'Friendly rivals' so it doesn't turn into a 'we kill them' fiasco. And just to remind the players that they are not the only talk of the town

[CyCo]

Firstly, it's a HU game, heros (and villans) always seem to come back from the dead.

That aside, if I'm running a game and someone kills of a NPC, then he's dead Jim. if there's a way for him to come back and make it even more memorable, or the way the character comes back is memorable, then all is good. If not, make up another character with it's own twist.

I'm running a DnD 3.5 game atm, and of course, the main NPC is a cleric. I chose to spoof the typical healer cleric, and turbo'd the characters healing ability via feats, then later prestige class. This guy is now a 6th lvl Cleric, 5th level Radiant Servant of Pelor. His cure light wounds is something like 1d8+26 or something. Even then, with his powers of healing, there have been plenty of NDE, and two actual character deaths. One of which has been brought back from death by this NPC. I've decided that if he dies, I'll run no real NPCs for a few levels, then bring him back as some lesser angel type to offset the levels in 'monster' class. He won't be that much more powerful (at least healing wise), but certainly will be more memorable. A couple of the characters even speculated he may ascend to be one of Pelors right hands. So it even fits the groups psyche.

[LostOne]

Exactly...superhero games run in the comic book style, people come back from the dead all the time.

[KillWatch]

1 never ever EVAR have a favorite NPC
2 Never ever EVAR play an NPC as a PC

Personally, as a player, I hate indestructable NPCs because theya re the GMs favorite. I know you said that he is suppose to be dead, but you should just let it be. It adds to the cheese factor if a) you pull a monty python, b) you bring him into another game

As a GM I try to keep the world open to my players within reason. If I can one hit my players, they can one hit my villains or NPCs. Everything has reprecussions, short or long term. If they can't use playr knowledge I can't use GM knowledge to counter act their plans or actions.

If you play an NPC as a PC your GM may not have the same appreciatin of your character and playing a PC means that that PC is fair game for death and humiliation.

[KillWatch]

I would go for a midpoint. I would know the personality, goals, motivations and general history of what I would plan to be a failry involved NPC. Minor NPCs like vendors for the most part I wouldn't worry about, unless a PC asks them out on a date, then I write them up and find out if they have jealous X's pissed off family, money problems, gambling debts etc. Having an NPC who has secrets or a past that the players actually have to wait for or dig up I find very rewarding. If you know a NPC has a daughter who they write to every saturday in their office and the some of the players may or may not notice that they lock themselves away at 2 in the afternoon every week on saturday, it adds so much to the game on personal level. Do they get suspicious? do they demand to know what the NPC is doing? Do they respect their privacy or do they have to know everything about everyone despite relationships? If I know a NPCs background and who they are, then I can plan entire games around it.

For instance if that NPC was killed early on, the daughter might come looking for answers. She might hire a detective, or want to take revenge on them. She might find and reveal secrets, She might get them arrested after following them on a night patrol. She might simply come to their door and tearfully ask WHY. If you know what your NPCs are thinking and what their motivations are it adds layers to the game that the players can stumble upon well into a campaign that has always been there but simply never came up.