Book most in need to a re-do

[Sureshot]

I nominate Rifts Psycape. Not a complete re-do. Something along the lines that was done with the Federation of Magic book. With the Rifts GMG having a list of all the psionic powers we really don't need them taking up about 17 pages of space imo. All we have on the city of Psycape is 8 pages. We definately could use more. Second would be both Rifts Afraica and England. Out of two more Africa. It ones of those books that I found bland and almost never used in a Rifts game.

[Killer Cyborg]

I have re-read almost all of my books for the Nth time, and I vote World Book 3: England. There are so many great plots that are waiting to be expanded on. I am not to Africa yet because I started with SOT and all of the others before moving back to the world books.

I disagree, simply because England is someplace that's pretty much useless to me.
I'd rather focus on North America.


I hate to say it, but I think that the main book is the one most in need of a re-do.

[glitterboy2098]

I have re-read almost all of my books for the Nth time, and I vote World Book 3: England. There are so many great plots that are waiting to be expanded on. I am not to Africa yet because I started with SOT and all of the others before moving back to the world books.

I disagree, simply because England is someplace that's pretty much useless to me.
I'd rather focus on North America.

i disagree on both points. England is perfectly fine the way it is, and frankly, when north america already has two dozen plus books, there really isn't much need for too many more, unless you like metaplot.

let the rest of the world get some love.


myself i say there are no books that need a rewrite. but there are a multitude of books in need of sequals!

if i had to chose a single book that most needed to be redone, on a purely hypothetical here, i'd say RIFTS: Space, (mutants in orbit). this half a book needs to be spun off into it's own sourcebook, and while we're at a switch to a more pluasable and thought out set of space travel mechancis would be good. perhaps the ship designer and mechanics from HU:AUGG can be adapted...

[Sureshot]

I have always thought Kevin decision to focus outside of North America with the Rifts books at the beginning strange to say the least. Unless the group has a Shifter and is at least 5th level or higher they probably don't have the resources to go anywhere else. Short of the GM either starting a campaign outside of NA. Most Rifts groups I know have about 95% of the time focused on NA becuase they know it better than anything outside of it.

[runebeo]

Africa could be so much better. The Gods and the Horsemen took up way too much of the book. Africa has so many legends you could do 4 more books on this exotic place. My group don't want to play in Africa because they find it boring as it is now.

[Temporalmage]

Spirit West hands down!!

Originally the indians were scraping by and living off the land like psi-stalkers and wilderness scouts. Then along came Spirit West and "poof"... the indians have the best tech that rivals the new CS stuff, and have magic warriors that rival any tatoo man from Atlantis, and thier mages even have Temporal spells????? What the heck?????? And what takes the cake is that they have developed all this within spitting distance of the CS and NOBODY NOTICED?????????

[Jefram_denkar]

Africa could be so much better. The Gods and the Horsemen took up way too much of the book. Africa has so many legends you could be 4 books on this exotic place. My group don't want to play in Africa because they find it boring as it is now.

I consider Africa more of an adventure book then anything else. I figure 1 more book (a much larger one or 2 mid size ones) would fill it out alright. While many places have hundreds of legends you would have to look at them to see which would work best for a game setting like Rifts.

England could be fixed with a second book as well. After all it would be easy to expand and alter the setting by the fact that several years have gone by.

[Kagashi]

I vote for all of em that havent been RUE-ized already. But I would have started with WB 1 and worked my way up rather than jumping around. I suspect, PB is simply re-writing them when they need to replenish their stock.

[Killer Cyborg]

I have re-read almost all of my books for the Nth time, and I vote World Book 3: England. There are so many great plots that are waiting to be expanded on. I am not to Africa yet because I started with SOT and all of the others before moving back to the world books.

I disagree, simply because England is someplace that's pretty much useless to me.
I'd rather focus on North America.

i disagree on both points.

Then you get to be wrong twice today.

England is perfectly fine the way it is,

(speaks for itself)

and frankly, when north america already has two dozen plus books, there really isn't much need for too many more, unless you like metaplot.

Or unless you want them to describe the large number of places that have been mentioned but not actually described.
Chi-Town would be nice. After all, it's only been 18 years we've been waiting for that one.

let the rest of the world get some love.

No.
The rest of Rifts Earth can rot for all I care.
My characters in North America have a much better chance of falling through a random rift and ending up in the Dimension of Tap-Dancing Hamsters than they do of actually getting to another continent, so it doesn't much matter what's there.
Sure, I could start up a new campaign in one of those settings, but I could also start up new campaign in another dimension.
And I'd much prefer tap-dancing hamsters to cyber-ninjas or other mega-cliches.

myself i say there are no books that need a rewrite. but there are a multitude of books in need of sequals!

I agree that a lot should have sequels.

if i had to chose a single book that most needed to be redone, on a purely hypothetical here, i'd say RIFTS: Space, (mutants in orbit). this half a book needs to be spun off into it's own sourcebook, and while we're at a switch to a more pluasable and thought out set of space travel mechancis would be good. perhaps the ship designer and mechanics from HU:AUGG can be adapted...

I actually wouldn't mind that at all.

[Vrykolas2k]

Spirit West hands down!!

Originally the indians were scraping by and living off the land like psi-stalkers and wilderness scouts. Then along came Spirit West and "poof"... the indians have the best tech that rivals the new CS stuff, and have magic warriors that rival any tatoo man from Atlantis, and thier mages even have Temporal spells????? What the heck?????? And what takes the cake is that they have developed all this within spitting distance of the CS and NOBODY NOTICED?????????

It's the laser bow that really cuts it, man!!!

[Talavar]

I'm with KC - the rest of the world can go hang, I want more books on North America. Of the North American books, the one most wanting an update is Vampire Kingdoms to my mind. It's a great book, but a little out of step with the rest of the Rifts line at this point, simply do to the length of time since it was released.

[glitterboy2098]

I have re-read almost all of my books for the Nth time, and I vote World Book 3: England. There are so many great plots that are waiting to be expanded on. I am not to Africa yet because I started with SOT and all of the others before moving back to the world books.

I disagree, simply because England is someplace that's pretty much useless to me.
I'd rather focus on North America.

i disagree on both points.

Then you get to be wrong twice today.

considering that wrong and right are highly subjective in this debate, that statement is the only incorrect one so far...

and frankly, when north america already has two dozen plus books, there really isn't much need for too many more, unless you like metaplot.

Or unless you want them to describe the large number of places that have been mentioned but not actually described.
Chi-Town would be nice. After all, it's only been 18 years we've been waiting for that one.

this is why i said "too many more" as opposed to "any more". Chitown would be nice, but not a required. we've gone 15+ years without a book on it, so a few more won't hurt. the mississippi river delta is a must, but after that there is not a lot of ground not already covered in north america. future books in NA have basically run out of uncovered wilderness, and we'll just end up with lots more hardware to sort through and many more small powers.

on the otherhand we still don't know whats in africa, despite it getting 10 pages in it's book, we only have a small amount on austrialia, south east asia is a total blank, as is india, and 75% of our world by surface area and 90% by volume has just a single book (WB7) to its name...

let the rest of the world get some love.

No.
The rest of Rifts Earth can rot for all I care.
My characters in North America have a much better chance of falling through a random rift and ending up in the Dimension of Tap-Dancing Hamsters than they do of actually getting to another continent, so it doesn't much matter what's there.
Sure, I could start up a new campaign in one of those settings, but I could also start up new campaign in another dimension.
And I'd much prefer tap-dancing hamsters to cyber-ninjas or other mega-cliches.

nice to know that Palladium books, a fairly successful company with thousands of customers, is expected to conform to a business plan based on the desires of a single GM named killer cyborg....

the whole point of covering the rest of the world is so that you have those options. you have the option of doing those continent hopping campaigns. you have the options of playing a fleshed out setting somewhere thats not americanocentric.

what The Galactus kid and his fellow freelancers are doing to europe is fleshing it out to make it playable. right now, North America is so fleshed out it's getting obese. think about it. North america is the focus on almost half the books in the RIFTS line. and thats not including all the Rifter stuff!

[Talavar]

My problem with a lot of the world books is that they compress huge, diverse areas into a book or two, are meant to represent the culture or cultures located there to gamers who may or may not know anything about said cultures, and are often accompanied with the disclaimer that this part of the world is extremely isolated and difficult for outsiders to get to. Basically, if a GM wants to make use of Rifts Russia, Japan, Australia, Africa or China, they have to set the whole game there, and thus limit themselves from using the majority of the books.

I really think the World Books got off in the wrong direction with #3. Vampire Kingdoms was adjacent to the main Rifts location, and easily accessible & relevant to most players. Atlantis was also adjacent, and as a fictional place, remarkably free of cyborg-ninjas, and that sort of thing. North America should have been fleshed out to the degree its getting to now first, then other, distant parts of the world explored. I'd really like to see Lazlo, New Lazlo, Chi-town and the Coalition States get some specific attention; these are all places from the original Rifts book, and there's very little to work from.

This may be americo-centric, but it would create a fully-fleshed out location to game in, and last time I checked, Palladium wasn't selling too many foreign-language editions of their books.

[Killer Cyborg]

i disagree on both points.

Then you get to be wrong twice today.

considering that wrong and right are highly subjective in this debate, that statement is the only incorrect one so far...

If you posted that yesterday, then you were wrong three times.

and frankly, when north america already has two dozen plus books, there really isn't much need for too many more, unless you like metaplot.

Or unless you want them to describe the large number of places that have been mentioned but not actually described.
Chi-Town would be nice. After all, it's only been 18 years we've been waiting for that one.

this is why i said "too many more" as opposed to "any more".[/quote]

How much is too many?
Off the top of my head, I'd like to see books on:
Chi-Town
The Burbs
Missouri
El Dorado
Kingsdale
Iron Heart
Other CS cities and outposts
Shaedo
The Manistique Imperium
Wilk's
Golden Age Weaponsmiths
Northern Gun
Cyberworks
The Black Market
Plants & Animals
Demons
Lazlo
New Lazlo
The Magic Zone
The Shifting Lands
Men-At-Arms
Men of Magic
Scholars
Adventurers
Compendium of Futuristic Armor, Weapons, and Fortresses

Chi-town would be nice, but not a required.

Only the main book is required, so that argument negates everything that Palladium has done for Rifts since 1990 or so.

The rest of Rifts Earth can rot for all I care.
My characters in North America have a much better chance of falling through a random rift and ending up in the Dimension of Tap-Dancing Hamsters than they do of actually getting to another continent, so it doesn't much matter what's there.
Sure, I could start up a new campaign in one of those settings, but I could also start up new campaign in another dimension.
And I'd much prefer tap-dancing hamsters to cyber-ninjas or other mega-cliches.

nice to know that Palladium books, a fairly successful company with thousands of customers, is expected to conform to a business plan based on the desires of a single GM named killer cyborg....

I expect them to do just what they've been doing.
But that doesn't mean that they're doing things right.

the whole point of covering the rest of the world is so that you have those options.

Options that I don't want, need, or care about, and that are presented instead of fleshing out the key playing areas that are sketched out or mentioned in the main book.

right now, North America is so fleshed out it's getting obese.

Parts are, but parts are STILL just skin & bones.

think about it. North america is the focus on almost half the books in the RIFTS line. and thats not including all the Rifter stuff!

Yeah, and they're STILL missing a lot of major stuff.
While including crap that should never have been written (New West, Spirit West, and Canada).

[Bood Samel]

I think England and Spirit West, but more so Spirit West should be striken from the cannon entirely. Other shoddy books could stand to be re-done a bit, but not completely tossed out the window. Like Africa, which should just be called and approached as a Phoenix Empire book.

[glitterboy2098]

i disagree on both points.

Then you get to be wrong twice today.

considering that wrong and right are highly subjective in this debate, that statement is the only incorrect one so far...

If you posted that yesterday, then you were wrong three times.

and you continue to repeat the same mistake.

this thread is one of opinion. opinion is subjective. i say i like red, you say you like blue.
both are equally right. there is no absolute truths here.

but to try to force others to conform to your own subjective reality because you beleive something is wrong.

i make a statement "i see nothing wrong with Rifts england". you say "no your wrong!". i say "do you live in my head, that you see what i see and think what i think, and can tell me what my own opinions are?"

or is your statement of "your wrong" directed at my statement that i disagree with your assessment? that, through some reality twisting i do agree with you despite holding totally opposet viewpoints?

The rest of Rifts Earth can rot for all I care.
My characters in North America have a much better chance of falling through a random rift and ending up in the Dimension of Tap-Dancing Hamsters than they do of actually getting to another continent, so it doesn't much matter what's there.
Sure, I could start up a new campaign in one of those settings, but I could also start up new campaign in another dimension.
And I'd much prefer tap-dancing hamsters to cyber-ninjas or other mega-cliches.

nice to know that Palladium books, a fairly successful company with thousands of customers, is expected to conform to a business plan based on the desires of a single GM named killer cyborg....

I expect them to do just what they've been doing.
But that doesn't mean that they're doing things right.

hypothetical KCized Palladium books: "huh, no one is playing games set in europe. guess we don't need to write books for it."

fans: "i don't play games set in europe because there is nothing to work with"

it's a circular logic trap. few people use a setting, so the company neglects that setting, which is why few people play the setting in the first place.

the only way out is to write books for that setting. it doesn't matter if that setting is unused by many gamers, the fact is some players and gamemasters will want to use that setting, and thus we should encourage them to play by giving them the tools they need to do so

the whole point of covering the rest of the world is so that you have those options.

Options that I don't want, need, or care about, and that are presented instead of fleshing out the key playing areas that are sketched out or mentioned in the main book.

but it is not your opinion solely that matters here. it is the collective desire of the fans, and more importantly, that of the writers and freelancers.

btw, they are options i'd love and would prefer over fine details about what Karl Prosek eats for breakfast or some tiny hundred member village in RIFTS: oklahoma.

right now, North America is so fleshed out it's getting obese.

Parts are, but parts are STILL just skin & bones.

some parts are supposed to be skin and bones. give the Gm's freedom to be clever.

but right now half the planet is vacuum, not even with skin and bones...

think about it. North america is the focus on almost half the books in the RIFTS line. and thats not including all the Rifter stuff!

Yeah, and they're STILL missing a lot of major stuff.
While including crap that should never have been written (New West, Spirit West, and Canada).[/quote]

i liked new west. i liked Spirit west. i loved canada

[Killer Cyborg]

If you posted that yesterday, then you were wrong three times.

and you continue to repeat the same mistake.

this thread is one of opinion. opinion is subjective. i say i like red, you say you like blue.
both are equally right. there is no absolute truths here.

but to try to force others to conform to your own subjective reality because you beleive something is wrong.

lol

Dude, you're the one trying to argue with me.

Kind of hypocritical to do that, then pull the "Hey, man... everything's subjective" card.

I expect them to do just what they've been doing.
But that doesn't mean that they're doing things right.

hypothetical KCized Palladium books: "huh, no one is playing games set in europe. guess we don't need to write books for it."

fans: "i don't play games set in europe because there is nothing to work with"

it's a circular logic trap. few people use a setting, so the company neglects that setting, which is why few people play the setting in the first place.

The setting for Rifts is North America.
They wrote the setting in such a way that it's practically impossible for campaigns to extend into other areas of the planet, unless you want to resort to the lame explanation of "We wandered into a rift that could have taken us anywhere, not just in our own universe, but in ANY universe... and we ended up on the next continent over on our own planet.

Once you set up that kind of setting, it's a waste of everybody's time to start detailing places that people aren't likely to end up.

the only way out is to write books for that setting. it doesn't matter if that setting is unused by many gamers, the fact is some players and gamemasters will want to use that setting, and thus we should encourage them to play by giving them the tools they need to do so

"We must dedicate ourselves to writing settings that don't matter, and that won't be widely used. It's a pointless endeavor, but by God somebody's got do to it!"

Options that I don't want, need, or care about, and that are presented instead of fleshing out the key playing areas that are sketched out or mentioned in the main book.

but it is not your opinion solely that matters here.

It is to me.
This is a thread about opinions, and I'm just stating mine.
You're the one getting pissy because you think that Palladium should spend more time making books that won't get much use.

some parts are supposed to be skin and bones. give the Gm's freedom to be clever.

Agreed. New West is a prime example.
But they blew that one already.

Other places, like Chi-Town and many of the other places I listed, are important features in North America, and should be fleshed out.

but right now half the planet is vacuum, not even with skin and bones...

Good.
You don't need half the planet; all you need is info on the places that your PCs are going to go.

Yeah, and they're STILL missing a lot of major stuff.
While including crap that should never have been written (New West, Spirit West, and Canada).

i liked new west. i liked Spirit west. i loved canada

Explains a lot.

[Nursahburen]

My vote for a Re-Do is South America 1 or 2 as well as ALL the books could be expanded on in some way

[glitterboy2098]

Dude, you're the one trying to argue with me.

an yet i merely stated my opinion, and you immediatly said i my opinion was wrong. which is a way of trying to force you opnion on me, by saying my opinion is not valid, but your own is.

The setting for Rifts is North America.

the setting for RIFTS is Earth. if palladium had intended for RIFTS to just be north america, Kevin Siembieda would not have written WB3, WB4, or WB5...or included sections of england, germany, and scandinavia in the original RIFTS Main Book

They wrote the setting in such a way that it's practically impossible for campaigns to extend into other areas of the planet, unless you want to resort to the lame explanation of "We wandered into a rift that could have taken us anywhere, not just in our own universe, but in ANY universe... and we ended up on the next continent over on our own planet.

or hop on a boat and sail there. or hop in a plane and fly their. or hop into a car and drive there for some spots.

and of course that rift can take you to an entire megaverse, only to dump you out on the return trip..well anywhere on earth.

Once you set up that kind of setting, it's a waste of everybody's time to start detailing places that people aren't likely to end up.

except its not that kind of setting. and its not a waste of time since people have actually been using what little material has been published about them. so how can it be a waste of time to support the fans?

"We must dedicate ourselves to writing settings that don't matter, and that won't be widely used. It's a pointless endeavor, but by God somebody's got do to it!"

"if you write it, they will play"

You don't need half the planet; all you need is info on the places that your PCs are going to go.

so if my PC's are going to india, they can't because it wasn't deemed important enough to even mention?


diversity is the stuff of life. remember palladiums motto for rifts. "an infinity of possibilities"

restricting our selves to just north america seems to fall short of infinite.

[Killer Cyborg]

Dude, you're the one trying to argue with me.

an yet i merely stated my opinion, and you immediatly said i my opinion was wrong.

In my defense, your opinion is wrong.

which is a way of trying to force you opnion on me, by saying my opinion is not valid, but your own is.

Not at all. I fully expect that you'll keep sticking to your own opinion.
I'm pointing out that it's wrong, but that's not the same as trying to force you to be right.

The setting for Rifts is North America.

the setting for RIFTS is Earth. if palladium had intended for RIFTS to just be north america, Kevin Siembieda would not have written WB3, WB4, or WB5...or included sections of england, germany, and scandinavia in the original RIFTS Main Book

Except that there was originally only supposed to be ONE world book and the main rulebook.
The main rulebook focused on North America, and the World Book was supposed to fill in the rest.
And the core book is the only one that's necessary to play, that's what makes it the CORE book. Now count how many pages were spent describing North America vs. other places.

They wrote the setting in such a way that it's practically impossible for campaigns to extend into other areas of the planet, unless you want to resort to the lame explanation of "We wandered into a rift that could have taken us anywhere, not just in our own universe, but in ANY universe... and we ended up on the next continent over on our own planet.

or hop on a boat and sail there. or hop in a plane and fly their. or hop into a car and drive there for some spots.

I suspect that your version of a post-apocalyptic planet has better travel agencies than most people's. Certainly better than the original vision of Rifts Earth.

and of course that rift can take you to an entire megaverse, only to dump you out on the return trip..well anywhere on earth.

Yup.
But you have better odds of winning the lottery while getting struck by lightning.

Once you set up that kind of setting, it's a waste of everybody's time to start detailing places that people aren't likely to end up.

except its not that kind of setting.[/quote]

Except that it is.

(your turn again)

and its not a waste of time since people have actually been using what little material has been published about them. so how can it be a waste of time to support the fans?

People will whatever material you publish.
If you give them crap on Japan, they'll try to fit it in because they like the game.
If you give them more relevant material, they'll use that too.... and it will make a lot more sense.

"We must dedicate ourselves to writing settings that don't matter, and that won't be widely used. It's a pointless endeavor, but by God somebody's got do to it!"

"if you write it, they will play"

Agreed.
I just don't think that's a reason to write crap that doesn't fit the game well.

You don't need half the planet; all you need is info on the places that your PCs are going to go.

so if my PC's are going to india, they can't because it wasn't deemed important enough to even mention?

Sure they can; you just have to make up the details of what India is like.
Just like you do with Chi-Town, Shaedo, and a zillion other places in North America.

The difference is that you could fill an entire campaign or two with the PCs just trying to get TO India... and, really, you should.
Chi-Town can be travelled to on foot, if necessary.

restricting our selves to just north america seems to fall short of infinite.

Agreed.
As does restricting yourself to just one planet.
How many dimension books are there again?

But either way, my point isn't that they should never write World Books outside of places that affect North America; it's that there are a hell of a lot more pressing places and things that need to be covered. Higher priorities.

[Jefram_denkar]

Yeah, and they're STILL missing a lot of major stuff.
While including crap that should never have been written (New West, Spirit West, and Canada).

i liked new west. i liked Spirit west. i loved canada

Explains a lot.

Both New West and Spirt West could have been done better. While their are things in the books I like, there are things that have never did sit right with me about them.

As for Canada I think the reason some people do not like it is the fact that it is not loaded down with new toys to play with. Rifts Canada is more of an Adventure Source book that fills in a lot of information about the wilderness areas, small communities, and monsters around the more noted places. I have known a few people would avoid buying any book that is not in part loaded down with new toys. While Canada dose have some it is not enough for some people.

As for Canada avoiding any of the major areas (the other major argument I heard against the book), that was intended that way (read page 38 in Rifts Canada). It is set up to set up the other books for the major locations in Rifts Canada (Like Free Quebec, Xiticixs, etc...) while letting people know what is between.

[glitterboy2098]

i thought that the amerindians of the tech preserves didn't get the special OCC's and magic of the traditionalists and pure ones, and had to settle for more mundane tech oriented OCC's?

at least thats how i understood it.

and the tech-preserves were looked down on by the traditionalists and pure ones, considered "the cousins you don't talk about" despite the tech-preserves helping to protect the various tribes?


i'll agree Psyscape needs a little work, but not much more than the revised version of FoM, dropping the 'new' Psionics for actual information on the city of psyscape...

[Jefram_denkar]

I'd do Psyscape over again. Some of the PCCs are pretty *meh*, and there's very little info given on Psi-scape itself. Instead, we're treated to a pretty negligable bit of meta gaming (YAAI...*yawn*) and a bunch of crap about psi-cola, the CS, and their psionic implants. None of which, btw, has ever been touched by any GM I've played with. Hell, I've never heard of them ever being used ANYWHERE, by ANYONE.

~RS

I used the implants and C.S. Psionic gear a few times (as well as Psi-cola). But I do agree the psionic classes need some work and Psyscape it self needs a lot more detail.

[Sureshot]

or hop on a boat and sail there. or hop in a plane and fly their. or hop into a car and drive there for some spots.

These are all valid ways to go to other places on Rifts Earth. All doomed to fail for the most part. The oceans are teeming with all manner of MDC creatures waiting to either enslave and/or kill you. Flying is a decent option unless you plan to fly over places like the CS and Traix who tend to shot down anyone authorized to fly in their airspace. And as the oceans their not safe. Cars in a world where the roads are almost all gone to non-existant and are pretty pointless. Where do you refuel? Even with a nuclear power plant it's still a very dangerous. I get your point. In other PB worlds such as HU, Nightbane and BTS2 these would woek not in Rifts Earth imo.

[Bood Samel]

The problem with that book is that its really a Phoenix empire book.

[runebeo]

I think some of the world books should get a update book line with more on the area and its people. Books with names like Africa 112 P.A., Fall of New Camelot, the Lord of the Deep, Tech of Japan or Erin Tarn's Hitchhikers Guide to the Megaverse (Dimensional book) would catch my interest. Maybe do a Rifts Atlas book with maps and little extra information on each place would help round out England, Africa, Australia an some of the missed areas of the world like India and western Europe. Personally I need a Lazlo book to wrap North America up for me.

[glitterboy2098]

or hop on a boat and sail there. or hop in a plane and fly their. or hop into a car and drive there for some spots.

These are all valid ways to go to other places on Rifts Earth. All doomed to fail for the most part. The oceans are teeming with all manner of MDC creatures waiting to either enslave and/or kill you.

and yet the land, with 20x as many species of monsters, 5x number the hostile military powers, and all packed into a quarter of the space....is so safe we have small farming communities with just a single protector that can survive for many generations.

Flying is a decent option unless you plan to fly over places like the CS and Traix who tend to shot down anyone authorized to fly in their airspace. And as the oceans their not safe.

i presume you mean "not authorized?"
neither shoot down everyone who fly into their airspace. they might send up fighters, skycycles, or flying PA to intercept and ID you, demand that you show some registration, maybe force you to land at an airbase for investigation if your not recognized, but generally they won't shoot at you unless you refuse to co-operate, fire at them, or are a species of flying monster...

and of course there is this little thing called navigation, flying around their claimed terrirtories if you want ot avoid "governmental entanglements"

Cars in a world where the roads are almost all gone to non-existant and are pretty pointless.

funny, i guess four wheel drive is worthless then? how about all those jeeps and trucks and tanks and APC's and motorcycles and hovercycles and ATV's and such that have been filling the various sourcebooks are just wasted book space better suited to filling out a 23rd copy of the C-12 stats with a new name?

of course you forget there are also horses and other less conventional riding animals. and dirt roads. and plenty of open fields across most of the continent.

did you know that the first automobiles often didn't have roads to work with? they drove across fields and dirt paths and gravel and desert and such. all without the benefits of four wheel drive, high powered engines, off road suspensions......shock absorbers...

[Sureshot]

and yet the land, with 20x as many species of monsters, 5x number the hostile military powers, and all packed into a quarter of the space....is so safe we have small farming communities with just a single protector that can survive for many generations.

My point was that Rifts Earth for the most part is not a safe place. And while i agree that the enemies you fight on land are numerous than in the ocean your not really safe. I'm not the on who suggested using a boat you did. i'm just telling you why I don;t think it's going to work.

presume you mean "not authorized?"
...

Yes

neither shoot down everyone who fly into their airspace. they might send up fighters, skycycles, or flying PA to intercept and ID you, demand that you show some registration, maybe force you to land at an airbase for investigation if your not recognized, but generally they won't shoot at you unless you refuse to co-operate, fire at them, or are a species of flying monster...

it all depends whose airspace you fly thorough. The CS can and will shoot dwon everyone who fly into their airspace. They sometimes shoot down Iron Heart airplanes even when those airplanes are nowhere near CS airspace. Same thing with Triax imo. Unless it's a city/village with minimal amounts of air support you can expect very intchy trigger fingers until you can prove your intentions. This is after all Rifts Earth where only the paranoid and careful survive.

and of course there is this little thing called navigation, flying around their claimed terrirtories if you want ot avoid "governmental entanglements"

Thanks for point out the obvious. When I either play or run a game of Rifts I know you can go around a contested area. Thing is more often than not the player go into the contested area as it's boring to constantly avoid things. Your Rifts arth must be a safer place to travel than the current one. As your also assuming that the airspace will always be safe to travel through. Maybe on other PB worlds not rifts. With Random Rifts opening all over the place nowher is safe. At least not 100%.

funny, i guess four wheel drive is worthless then? how about all those jeeps and trucks and tanks and APC's and motorcycles and hovercycles and ATV's and such that have been filling the various sourcebooks are just wasted book space better suited to filling out a 23rd copy of the C-12 stats with a new name?

You mentioned cars. Not all the other vehilces you list above. I know full well that you can use all the stuff you listed. Stop treating me like an idiot. All the vehilces you list cost money. Unless you have a generous GM most low level groups don't have access to them. While four whell drive is great there are somethings not even it can handle. Like I said your version of rifts must be easier to travel than the one I know. You make it seems like traveling thorugh is a simple walk in the park.

of course you forget there are also horses and other less conventional riding animals. and dirt roads. and plenty of open fields across most of the continent.

Horses and conventional animals unless protected are easy prey to MDC weapons. the also get spooked by a creature with Horror Facter. They have to be trained which cost money. You have dirt roads and open fields. How often are those dirt roads maintained. Imo not very often as unless it's near a city like Chi-Town most villages don't have the means or the will to keep them open. Or to keep them safe. Open fileds I think would be rare as most open spaces have been reclamed by vegation since no one is really keep them clean of vegation.

You make some really valid points except that your assuming that on Rifts Earth their is a concentrated effort by humanity to keep the roads clear. Build new ones while creating some sort of road infrastructure. No one really is imo. Resources for most on the planet are barely minimal. They have more important things to do than keep roads well mainted.

did you know that the first automobiles often didn't have roads to work with? they drove across fields and dirt paths and gravel and desert and such. all without the benefits of four wheel drive, high powered engines, off road suspensions......shock absorbers...

While all the roads you mentioned in the above post exist. your also forgeting the huge amounts of damage MDC weapons can do to the environment. Als otheir is a lot more rubble on the roads in the form of destroyed vehicles and shattered buildings. Which make it much harder to travel on the roads.

[kirksmithicus]

The New West


Everyone west of the Mississippi goes back to playing cowboys and indians, how lame.

[Nursahburen]

I'm in favor of sequals over redo's Psyscape imparticular could have more about the city itself and the Astral Plane, Nxla could've been put in the Federation Book along with it's "Soul Harvest". Psi-Battalion and Psi-Cola would've been better suited to one of the "burbs" adventure books. I'de really like to know the relationship between Dweomer and Psyscape since they are both close to each other and both predominently good. England, Africa, Japan all need a 2nd book. But what I'd really like to see is Austrailia 2 & 3, and China 3 books advertised that we have STILL not seen.

[csbioborg]

for me the core book if made into another edition should be redone to have complete descriptions of Lazlo. It is simple human nature for people to have a Hero and a Villian to identify with. Lazlo is supposed to be the major antagonist of the Coalition and it is ancilarily mentioned in almost every sourcebook either from a quick preface by Erin Tarn or as a substantive part of the book such as in Xiticix where there are supposed to be part of the plot to destroy them. It is only natural that a group that had never played rifts would start a campiagn either as originating from C.S. or Lazlo territory and yet there is very little written about the actual city or its forces. I really think that Palladium would really benefit from setting these two powers up. I think originally K.S. didn't realize how appealing he had made the Coalition so assumed everyone would play as its opponnet so it was easier just to flesh out the bad guy and leave the good guys as something for the players to be. As it turns out a large part of the fan base love playing the Coalition underdogs so now the Evil Empire is Lazlo. Setting up both sides let's the player's choose who is the enemy without a bunch of extra leg work by the Dungeon Master.

second ridts bionics. While I'll admit at the begining that Shadow Run was meant to make human augmentation a bigger part of the game, I still was very disappointedx with how bionics especailly when there is a entire sourcebook devoted to it is handled in rifts. Without getting a full conversion the selection is very limited. The actualy sourcebook was just a reprint of past material which is bad form imo. Consdiering all the great ideas that were put into play in Splicers the writers obviously are not lacking in imagination so another shot at this is not out of order. While I understand that the Juicer class in many ways would be made obsolete and to a lesser extent Crazies the overall game would be made much more rich if some improvements were made in this area.

One thing that I don't think would be out of line is giving the same bonues that Space Marines from the UWW get through chemical enhancement to C.S troops. In today's real world we can safely make chemicals that when given properly give athletes dramatic bonues in prefromance. Most of the negative drawbacks are sterotypes from the 70s when we hadn't gotten the chemical formula right yet or are about people that are taking the drugs incorrectly. As an example testorrone shoit needs to be given in conjunction with estrogen pills in order to combat the side effects. The enlarged cap size attributed to many baseball players is the result of a abuse of HGH not a normal use. By 2098 in real life these same chemicals will be so refined that there should be pratically no detrmental effects.

[runebeo]

for me the core book if made into another edition should be redone to have complete descriptions of Lazlo. It is simple human nature for people to have a Hero and a Villian to identify with. Lazlo is supposed to be the major antagonist of the Coalition and it is ancilarily mentioned in almost every sourcebook either from a quick preface by Erin Tarn or as a substantive part of the book such as in Xiticix where there are supposed to be part of the plot to destroy them. It is only natural that a group that had never played rifts would start a campiagn either as originating from C.S. or Lazlo territory and yet there is very little written about the actual city or its forces. I really think that Palladium would really benefit from setting these two powers up. I think originally K.S. didn't realize how appealing he had made the Coalition so assumed everyone would play as its opponnet so it was easier just to flesh out the bad guy and leave the good guys as something for the players to be. As it turns out a large part of the fan base love playing the Coalition underdogs so now the Evil Empire is Lazlo. Setting up both sides let's the player's choose who is the enemy without a bunch of extra leg work by the Dungeon Master.

second ridts bionics. While I'll admit at the begining that Shadow Run was meant to make human augmentation a bigger part of the game, I still was very disappointedx with how bionics especailly when there is a entire sourcebook devoted to it is handled in rifts. Without getting a full conversion the selection is very limited. The actualy sourcebook was just a reprint of past material which is bad form imo. Consdiering all the great ideas that were put into play in Splicers the writers obviously are not lacking in imagination so another shot at this is not out of order. While I understand that the Juicer class in many ways would be made obsolete and to a lesser extent Crazies the overall game would be made much more rich if some improvements were made in this area.

One thing that I don't think would be out of line is giving the same bonues that Space Marines from the UWW get through chemical enhancement to C.S troops. In today's real world we can safely make chemicals that when given properly give athletes dramatic bonues in prefromance. Most of the negative drawbacks are sterotypes from the 70s when we hadn't gotten the chemical formula right yet or are about people that are taking the drugs incorrectly. As an example testorrone shoit needs to be given in conjunction with estrogen pills in order to combat the side effects. The enlarged cap size attributed to many baseball players is the result of a abuse of HGH not a normal use. By 2098 in real life these same chemicals will be so refined that there should be pratically no detrmental effects.

I say do a Lazlo book and a Chi-Town book and North America should be pretty well complete. They the rest of the world could be filled in with a Rifts Atlas book. Instead of reprinting old books just revise them like they did with source book one. My collection are turning pretty yellow from all the smoke in my house, I wouldn't mind buying a revised set of world books one threw 5. Leave the South America books alone their my favorites.

[Danger]

nice to know that Palladium books, a fairly successful company with thousands of customers, is expected to conform to a business plan based on the desires of a single GM named killer cyborg.

[Danger]

The rest of Rifts Earth can rot for all I care.

Herein is the key to this entire argument.

[Killer Cyborg]

I hate to say it, but I think that the main book is the one most in need of a re-do.

Are you talking about RUE ?

Yes.

[csbioborg]

what specically about the RUE do you think needs to be redone.

Once black market comes out that should cover area 51 and maybe california and the pacific Norh West. Fed II will fininsh up the magic zone. Terriorily that's about it other than Lazlo. I'll always wanted a book covering California since I live in san diego.

[Killer Cyborg]

what specically about the RUE do you think needs to be redone.

-All editing mistakes and such should be fixed.
-Non-adventuring classes should be added
-More SDC equipment should be added and/or emphasized.
-Several clear sample combats should be included, ones that demonstrate more of the facets of the rules actually being used.
-The various levels of Strength need to be eliminated, and replaced with a simple set of rules that cover everybody. Creatures, robots, etc. need to be fixed to meet the new system.
-The skills system should include rules for opposed checks, and examples of use.
-Cyber-Knights need to be either reset back to their original stats, or to have new stats created that keep the essence of the original OCC.
-Either mages need mage-friendly armor to be covered in more depth (not just for Line-Walkers), or the stupid "mages can't wear normal armor" rule needs to be revoked.
-Juicers, crazies, and other M&Ms that receive extra attacks need to get at least one more attack per melee, to compensate for the Two Attacks for Living.
-The JA-11 needs to be fixed to keep in the spirit of the original weapon's capabilities: the Ion beam should have burst/spray capabilities.
-The C-12 needs to be fixed
-The original rules for random monster generation need to be included and expanded upon.
-Kev's notes and asides about the game need to be dropped from the normal version of the book, and included in a special annotated version.
-Costs and rules for armor repair need to be included (unless they were, and I missed them somehow)
-Clear rules for recharging E-clips need to be covered.

And probably a lot of other stuff that needs to be cleaned-up, expanded, fixed, and/or changed.

[runebeo]

RUE seems fine to me and I love the improvements it made a few years ago. Cyber Knight are awesome with the improved O.C.C., but to each his own. Two things I did not like was the cut in P.P.E. to the Shifter class, but I do understand it. The Juicers could use a little power boost and an extra attack per round.

[csbioborg]

which is why I think it should be placed inside of the main rule book. Fairly place the Coaltion States next to Lazlo as the two major powers in the midwest. It gives a very nice moral ambigouty to the setting where each party gets to decide which side is "right".





As an aide I've always enjoyed playing Lazlo like North Korea/China during the war where they would brainwash American servicemen into believing in communism to the extent that thosands opted to stay in N. Korea at the end of the war.

[Nursahburen]

I agree Mutants in Orbit I.E: Rifts Space is in the greatest need of a redo all around

[Jefram_denkar]

Personally I need a Lazlo book to wrap North America up for me.

The problem with doing a Lazlo book is that, if you noticed, pretty much every book Palladium does on a "good" kingdom, there's always some kind of big overt (or covert) threat on the horizon threatening them. Bad, or "evil" kingdoms tend not to suffer the same fate.

I'd guess they think it makes each book a better stand-alone product, or that, like sex in commercials, that having a different baddy per book just helps sell product.

The problem is, since Lazlo is coming late to the party, there's not really any plausible threats left. I mean, they could do YAAI or something like that, but I doubt they will. It's just uneccessary. I don't think any of the writers are juiced up about doing 120 pages of fluffy "good guy" text. Personally, I expect we won't have a Lazlo book until it's involved in some kind of conflict in the meta plot.

~RS

Do you forget the dooms day prophecy they had out of source book two: the Mechanoids??? that would be ideal as the main ploy danger for Lazlo as they seem to be doing the most about it.

Also a book for each state in the C.S, a Calgary book, and maybe a source book to fill out the last few corners of North America would work.

[Talavar]

Personally I need a Lazlo book to wrap North America up for me.

The problem with doing a Lazlo book is that, if you noticed, pretty much every book Palladium does on a "good" kingdom, there's always some kind of big overt (or covert) threat on the horizon threatening them. Bad, or "evil" kingdoms tend not to suffer the same fate.

I'd guess they think it makes each book a better stand-alone product, or that, like sex in commercials, that having a different baddy per book just helps sell product.

The problem is, since Lazlo is coming late to the party, there's not really any plausible threats left. I mean, they could do YAAI or something like that, but I doubt they will. It's just uneccessary. I don't think any of the writers are juiced up about doing 120 pages of fluffy "good guy" text. Personally, I expect we won't have a Lazlo book until it's involved in some kind of conflict in the meta plot.

~RS

The threat to Lazlo is the Coalition. Chi-Town really isn't that far away, and neither is the Coalition State of Iron Heart. Free Quebec isn't too crazy about Lazlo either, and it's nearby also.

[Library Ogre]

The threat to Lazlo is the Coalition. Chi-Town really isn't that far away, and neither is the Coalition State of Iron Heart. Free Quebec isn't too crazy about Lazlo either, and it's nearby also.

Bomber pilots can launch from New Chillicothe and be home by lunch.

[kirksmithicus]

I agree Mutants in Orbit I.E: Rifts Space is in the greatest need of a redo all around

Yep, I had totally forgotten about his one.

[Jefram_denkar]

The threat to Lazlo is the Coalition. Chi-Town really isn't that far away, and neither is the Coalition State of Iron Heart. Free Quebec isn't too crazy about Lazlo either, and it's nearby also.

Bomber pilots can launch from New Chillicothe and be home by lunch.

And yet they do not.

Could be an interesting back story on why (which would make craplaods of adventuring material)

Could it be a secret super weapon in Lazlo's hands, could be a hidden treaty, could be something even wierder??? The adventuring possabilites on somethin like that are endless.

[(SHIFTY)]

I would have to say Atlantis. After all this time it still stands as one of my favorites but it could use a little tweaking.

[Talavar]

Some of the magic spells need to be re-done. Prune out the useless ones.

Looks like they dropped Wave of Frost finally in RUE. Water to Wine and Spoil Water/Food seem ridiculous for
what is essentially a combat-oriented, power-hungry RPG. "Surrender Killer Demon, or I'll zap your twinkie collection with my magic spell !"

The spells that provide "invulnerability" (eg, 20 or 50 MDC) should either have that number x10 or just real invulnerabilty as per the super-power or close to it. It's pretty easy nowadays to zap 50 MD in a single round. I think in the old days that was a significant number, but power-creep has fixed that.

Talisman re-charging should be re-done; the whole 60/50 example seems weird. Drop it and put a max on it and just say it costs x2 to re-fill it.
>

The spell Invulnerability, while not giving that much MDC, also gives you impervious to energy, and a huge bonus to save vs. magic, psionics and horror factor, all of which last the full duration, regardless of whether the MDC is depleted, so it's still a pretty good spell.