Is cold energy?

[Danger]

Only if you also believe that being "Impervious to Fire/Heat" also protects you from cold, since a cold-based attack is attempting to change the level of heat in your body.

Personally, I don't buy it.

No, Impervious to Fire/Heat would protect from dangerous increases in heat. Impervious to cold would protect from dangerous decreases in heat. Protection from energy would protect you from any dangerous changes to your energy state.

No, but you're getting warmer.
Impervious to Fire/Heat would protect from dangerous increases in heat.
Impervious to cold would protect from dangerous increases in cold (which is a negative change in heat).
Protection from energy would protect you from any dangerous increases to your energy state.

What the hell is that? Sounds like something from a Bounce commercial.

"Now less static cling than ever before!"

[The Beast]

Since they are just energy that happens to be cold and not cold energy, would the impervious to energy work on them? They ARE energy right?

THAT is a good question.
I suppose that it would be up to the GM to decide how specifically the power works.

I guess what bothers me the most is that Palladium has basically put things in two categories. Energy and physical. Then these are subdivided into normal, magical and psionic. Looking at the abilities I asked about in my first post and you see that's how they are explained. Energy does this much, physical does this much, magic and psionic does this.

No where is cold ever mentioned, even in the powers that break down exactly what in each category. It just seems weird that cold is it's own category. Energy, physical and cold?

Yup.
There might be something else out there as well.
Also, there's other weird stuff:
Particle beams, for example are energy.
Invulnerable characters are impervious to energy.
Yet Invulnerable characters take partial damage from particle beams.
Go fig.

Does this mean that other characters that are impervious to energy weapons also take partial damage from particle beams?
Nobody knows.

And then there's psi-swords, which are both energy and physical, depending on circumstance.
And don't get me started on Mind Bolt...

IIRC, this is a specific ability of HU particle beam weapons (or maybe all SDC ones), and it does bypass all the various forms of damage resistances. I'm not sure if it would apply to MDC versions. I do remember in the old BtS book that damage from a nick was something like 1d6*10, and a direct hit was even worse. But those two settings were the only ones I remember seeing any special rules for PBWs. To the best of my knowledge, none of the Rifts books have any special rules for PBWs.

As far as EE: Cold goes, I'd have to agree with my sister and say that power is a type of energy that's cold and treat it as an energy-based attack. But I'd likely treat other sources of cold-based attacks as a physical attack.

But as soon as I get a copy of that dart board I've been hearing Palladium uses, I'll help you guys out better.

[The Beast]

By the way, the PBW rule comes from the HUGMG book.

[Killer Cyborg]

Since they are just energy that happens to be cold and not cold energy, would the impervious to energy work on them? They ARE energy right?

THAT is a good question.
I suppose that it would be up to the GM to decide how specifically the power works.

I guess what bothers me the most is that Palladium has basically put things in two categories. Energy and physical. Then these are subdivided into normal, magical and psionic. Looking at the abilities I asked about in my first post and you see that's how they are explained. Energy does this much, physical does this much, magic and psionic does this.

No where is cold ever mentioned, even in the powers that break down exactly what in each category. It just seems weird that cold is it's own category. Energy, physical and cold?

Yup.
There might be something else out there as well.
Also, there's other weird stuff:
Particle beams, for example are energy.
Invulnerable characters are impervious to energy.
Yet Invulnerable characters take partial damage from particle beams.
Go fig.

Does this mean that other characters that are impervious to energy weapons also take partial damage from particle beams?
Nobody knows.

And then there's psi-swords, which are both energy and physical, depending on circumstance.
And don't get me started on Mind Bolt...

IIRC, this is a specific ability of HU particle beam weapons (or maybe all SDC ones), and it does bypass all the various forms of damage resistances. I'm not sure if it would apply to MDC versions. I do remember in the old BtS book that damage from a nick was something like 1d6*10, and a direct hit was even worse. But those two settings were the only ones I remember seeing any special rules for PBWs. To the best of my knowledge, none of the Rifts books have any special rules for PBWs.

But Palladium does have a tradition of introducing rules for the entire Megaverse in one system, and expecting everybody to apply them.
The fact that there are no mentions of this in Rifts does not mean that they don't apply; it only means that they may or may not apply, and we're left in the dark.

As far as EE: Cold goes, I'd have to agree with my sister and say that power is a type of energy that's cold and treat it as an energy-based attack. But I'd likely treat other sources of cold-based attacks as a physical attack.

I disagree, but I can see the logic.

[AlanGunhouse]

By the way, the PBW rule comes from the HUGMG book.

I think the point of the PBW rule is to keep Invulnerable characters from being excessively powerful in HU. I mean, imagine a campaign where all characters with super powers are insane villains and the players are restricted to classes like Hardware, Physical Training, and Hunter/Vigilante. It would be difficult to bring down an invulnerable villain.

[Killer Cyborg]

By the way, the PBW rule comes from the HUGMG book.

I think the point of the PBW rule is to keep Invulnerable characters from being excessively powerful in HU. I mean, imagine a campaign where all characters with super powers are insane villains and the players are restricted to classes like Hardware, Physical Training, and Hunter/Vigilante. It would be difficult to bring down an invulnerable villain.

It's supposed to be difficult to bring down an invulnerable villain.
That's the point of the power.

[The Beast]

But Palladium does have a tradition of introducing rules for the entire Megaverse in one system, and expecting everybody to apply them.
The fact that there are no mentions of this in Rifts does not mean that they don't apply; it only means that they may or may not apply, and we're left in the dark.

I cannot argue with the logic you have presented in that statement. I can only do until Palladium decides to clairify things a bit more.

[AlanGunhouse]

It's supposed to be difficult to bring down an invulnerable villain.
That's the point of the power.

Well, that is true, but there is difficult and then there is something the characters can not be expected to be able to do. One should not pose a situation that the characters are UNABLE to handle, only ones whose handling takes an effort.

For example, I am running a villian campaign, and in the first scene the characters all have their powers turned off. One of the characters managed to figure out a way to power up one of the others and work an escape without help. The scenario (from an adventure) called for them to be rescued by an outside force. I Saw no reason to stop them from escaping on their own, better to let the characters do for themselves if they can. I only prevented escape until everyone was present (no point in trying to escape when enemies walking in every few seconds might catch you), after that I give as much leeway as possible.

[Killer Cyborg]

It's supposed to be difficult to bring down an invulnerable villain.
That's the point of the power.

Well, that is true, but there is difficult and then there is something the characters can not be expected to be able to do. One should not pose a situation that the characters are UNABLE to handle, only ones whose handling takes an effort.

That's the thing.
If invulnerability is the villain's only power, then he's going to be pretty easy for most groups to take down.
Throw a net on him and haul him of to jail, or whatever.
It's only in conjunction with other powers that it's a problem, and even then it's hardly an insurmountable one.
You just have to think your way to victory instead of punching your way there.

Heroes will be able to handle an invulnerable character, it just won't always be easy.

[AlanGunhouse]

Well, given that currently Invulnrability comes with superhuman strength as part of the power, it will take more than your average net. Still, I admit, if Invulnrability is the villain's only power, stopping him is just a challenge...though a somewhat difficult one.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well, given that currently Invulnrability comes with superhuman strength as part of the power, it will take more than your average net.

That depends on what his PS is.
Supernatural PS of 10 isn't all that.

But yes, that does make things trickier.

Still, I admit, if Invulnrability is the villain's only power, stopping him is just a challenge...though a somewhat difficult one.

[Tinker Dragoon]

This message has been moved to the GM's Forum, where the topic is more applicable and appropriate. If you have a problem with how this post was handled please direct all inquires to deific.nmi@gmail.com, including the url to the post in question.

[Beatmeclever]

Pg 173 of AU has effects for "Cold" Weapons.

The problem for Cosmo-Knights is that any object in space will quickly lose its own heat to the relative cold of space until said object reaches Absolute Zero (-274 degrees). So CKs must have some means of retaining heat (but since none is listed, as good GMs we just have to assume they have it -- or that there are A LOT of dead Cosmo-Knights in the 3 Galaxies). Perhaps their defense against Heat damage includes the loss of heat in this manner? Or the resistance that make all energy attacks do only "ONE-HUNDREDTH damage" reduces any heat loss in space so minimal that it doesn't really matter?

[Killer Cyborg]

Pg 173 of AU has effects for "Cold" Weapons.

The problem for Cosmo-Knights is that any object in space will quickly lose its own heat to the relative cold of space until said object reaches Absolute Zero (-274 degrees). So CKs must have some means of retaining heat (but since none is listed, as good GMs we just have to assume they have it -- or that there are A LOT of dead Cosmo-Knights in the 3 Galaxies). Perhaps their defense against Heat damage includes the loss of heat in this manner? Or the resistance that make all energy attacks do only "ONE-HUNDREDTH damage" reduces any heat loss in space so minimal that it doesn't really matter?

Well, we can be pretty sure of two things:
1. Space is NOT littered with the frozen corpses of Cosmo-Knights.
2. Cold is not energy.

So that kind of nixes both of those ideas.

The possibilities I see are:
a. the writers didn't think it through, but would likely make Cosmo-Knights impervious to cold.
b. the writers did think it through, and intended to make Cosmo-Knights impervious to cold... but then forgot, or it got edited out.
c. Cosmo-Knights' armor protects them.
d. The manner of their flight generates enough heat to keep them alive.
e. We've overlooked something.

[csbioborg]

why are particle blasts considered energy attacks

what makes it not kinetic energy

while its enumerated as something that cosmo knight are immune to I never understood that.

If cosmo knights suffer from cold damage if thier armor is damaged what is it and do they suffer from decompression in the same scenario

Assuming sopace is not littered with the bodies of dead cosmo kights that just means thier armor dosen't get puntured to often

[csbioborg]

exactly what is MD cold?

I can understand a knife or gun causing or not casuing MD and there isn't really a explaination for it

Cold is just a drop in tempeture. I don't really see why its a MD real as opposed to a exposure deal. You take a flooper and thorw him in Antartica he is going to die of exsposure without suffering any strucutral damage to his body.

That is a big problem I have with MD creatures. Fine they can take MD damage. It gets stupoid when poision, germs cold are MD or not. It blankets any type of harm into a sturtual dmage analysis which would bbe great if these were mecha which is what the system of MD was built for but these are living being.

[Probitas]

Cold is a lack of energy (or molecular activity if you want to get scientific). The colder anything gets, the more profound the lack of energetic activity. Objects at absolute zero temp are to all purposes dead and inert (in theory). When an object of lower energy state is placed in contact with an object of higher energy state, transfer occurs from the higher to the lower, and if left long enough (and in a system where there was NO other energy state to transfer into or out of) the two will reach an equilibrium, although some loss will still occur during the transfer so you won't actually reach a middle point, but something likely a bit above it.

So in game terms, the idea would be that cold attacks are actually an attempt to reduce energy, with that energy being channelled elsewhere (ie, a frost ray that covers a target in frost, the damage is from the frost aborbing energy from the target and reducing the target's own energy, eventually melting the frost). Or splash damage from liquid nitrogen basically flash freezing (and causing massive cellular damage) the target due to energy transfer to turn the liquid into a gas. (Don't try this at home, kids.)

I would not say it's negative energy, it's simply a lack of it.

You can achieve the same effect with a chemical reaction similar to a cold pack.