Can I have my Super,s Player characters reproduce?

[gaby]

I wanted to known if my Player characters with Super-powers can have Children ?

Are ther Power Categories that can't have Kids?

Do you lets the Children of your characters have the same powers as ther parents or are they different?

Hope you can Help me!

[LeeNapier]

CAVEAT: I am not a geneticist.

I wanted to known if my Player characters with Super-powers can have Children ?

Probably. I've wondered about whether those characters with radiation control powers would be rendered sterile, though.

Are ther Power Categories that can't have Kids?

Aside from Robots? No power categories, but for individual people, it depends on whether they are naturally infertile. Research indicates that infertility naturally occurs in about 12% of people, and has numerous causes.

I think a better question is, are there power categories whose kids wouldn't have super abilities?

Here are my thoughts on that:

For mutants, I would imagine that if a mutant bred with another mutant, then they would have a pretty good chance (75% perhaps) of having a child with mutant powers. The powers, in my mind, do not have to be the same as either or both parent - essentially the powers are a random result of the genetic mutation manifesting itself. OR you could say that one or the other of the parent's powers are dominant, and the child will have similar powers. I'd say there's a fair chance of that happening in 2nd, 3rd, 4th or higher generation mutants (i.e., if your grandaddy and daddy were both mutants).

For Experiments, the powers might result from changes that might not be genetic, they might be teratogenic, which means they would not carry over to the next generation. So if an experiment-powered character had a child, that child might be a normal kid. UNLESS the experiment explicitly was about genetic modification, I'd say that unpowered kids would be the norm.

Aliens with powers (not alien mutants, but aliens where every member of that race has powers) bestow such powers to their children if they breed with other members of the same species.

Magic Bestowed characters would not, in my mind, have powered children. Those powers would have to be bestowed, separately, upon the children n question.

Now, there's inter-character type to consider (i.e., would a mutant father and an Experiment mother have a powered kid?)

Here's my take (and bear in mind this is off the top of my head):

Rough Chance of Offspring Developing Powers
Mutant-Mutant: 75% (+5% per generation, max 90%)
Mutant-normal Human: 50%
Experiment-Experiment: varies, depending on the nature of the experiment, typically 0% to 50% chance
Experiment-Mutant: between 0 and 75%, again, depending on the nature of the experiment
Experiment-normal human: Probably no greater than 20%
Alien-Alien: 100% if powers are innate to species and both parents are same species, otherwise it varies from 0-50%
Alien-Mutant: 75% or so (conflicting genetics might render such a child monstrous)
Alien-Experiment: Probably not greater than 25% depending on nature of alien species and nature of experiment
Alien-Human: 50% perhaps. Wonky conflicting genetics could spark serious, perhaps debilitating mutations in the child.

Do you lets the Children of your characters have the same powers as ther parents or are they different?

Hope you can Help me!

In the past, I've allowed the characters children to have the same or similar powers.

If the parents powers are different, the kid gets one parent's powers or some powers from one parent and some from the other or completely new powers.
If the parents powers were similar, the kid gets those powers too, perhaps as a major power.

[Snowtiger]

I wanted to known if my Player characters with Super-powers can have Children ?

Are ther Power Categories that can't have Kids?

Do you lets the Children of your characters have the same powers as ther parents or are they different?

Hope you can Help me!

On the point of actual sexual interaction, depending on the player group's age, it's best kept "off-screen" but otherwise having kids is a nice thing, especially in a game centered around legacy stories and such.

Most categories can have children freely, but only the ones with powers of a biological base(any class besides bionics, robotics and perhaps magical for sure, Eugenics may be restricted due to the creators not wanting their creation to produce offspring, Imbued is a bit harder case, as their source of powers is usually external and may be specifically keyed to the individual) can pass their genes along to create superpowered offspring.

Of course, nothing prevents you from constructing legacies using for an example a Robotic class, so that the father passes the mantle to his son, who'll pilot the robot or don the armor to continue his father's work.

As for the kid's powers, they may inherit all their parent's powers, but sometimes they can manifest different, but similar powers(such as the kid manifesting Matter Expulsion: Metal, when his father has APS: Metal), or manifest a totally different set of powers, due to only inheriting the genes that allow him to manifest superpowers in the first place.

[LeeNapier]

D'oh! I forgot all about bionics and eugenics.

But yeah, bionic characters offspring obviously wouldn't inherit bionics, and eugenics depends on background.

[drewkitty ~..~]

If Player characters with Super-powers can have Children ? yes

Are ther Power Categories that can't have Kids? for some GMs the immortal cat is not fertial.

Do you lets the Children of your characters have the same powers as ther parents or are they different? Yes


It sounds like you never read Kittenstomp's Random Tables of DOOM.

[gaby]

Thaks for the help for drewkitty.

the info in Kittentomp,s Random tables of Doom,is what I needed.

[Iczer]

when it all boils dowm, it really just becomes a case of what would make a good story.

Mutants may find themselves too inhuman to produce live offspring, or even fertile offspring. Or the mutations of one (or more) parents may be recessive.

Experiments have a similiar problems, (as the aformentioned tetrogenic statement), but if a change persists in many cells, it will also persist in gamete cells, leaving us with the possibility of radically altered offspring (or perfectly normal, or really really sick offspring). If Heroman's geneiss came from radation, then he may continue to irradiate his own reproductive cells (sterillity? mutation?) or constant exposure to his partner may make him or her sterile (or, mutate even further their offspring) Imagine the possibilities the child of radioactive woman, coming to term inside her irradiated womb.

Symbiotes seem nice, but obviously there are cell changes within the host organism. if my squid like symbiote grafted to my neck grants me immunity to disease and enhanced hitpoints, then that's a change that affects my whole body (not to mention any actual powers that I may gain). If I'm swapping blood with an extraterrestrial moocher chances are that something is inside me to pass on (and think of the possibilities with the symbiote power. children born with a dependence on their own symbiote? or a symbiote that periodically impregnates their host?)
Of course, they may remain seperate systems.

Imbued characters are constantly shoving some substance in their veins/nose/throat/wherever. alcohol, and smoking can affect unborn children. So what can powerall-45, a lab created concoction that gives a character superstrength, speed and x-ray vision do to the unborn?

Psionics: could be gentically based (and lord knows, that's how I run them). do you pass it on to your kids? and what if your children grow up to be the first wave of psi-stalkers?

Magic: can spell casting cause unwanted changes in unborn? does wearing a magic ring count as 'exposure to unnusual energies'?

Alien: anything goes here. Palladium has a history of 'no-crossbreeding', but really, half alien heroes are liberally spread through comicdom.

All in all, it's anything goes. In reality, if you are more than human, there's a good chance that you are 'inhuman' and no longer able to breed true with the rest of humanity. between mutation and toxic chemical soup in your blood there is a lot of things that can go wrong with the whole reporductive melodrama.

But..it is a game.

Batts

[Stone Gargoyle]

Bionics, eugenics and Experiments often render the hero sterile. But like the others have said, it all comes down to story.

[NMI]

Specific post of Kittenstomps dealing with this subject -
viewtopic.php?p=263220#p263220

[Sir_Spirit]

Hmmm, depends on the flavor of the game IMO.

Of course, robots are unlikely to have children in the conventional sense, but they could build Offspring with the right resources.
Though you might do the unusual thing and say that a robot was built with an articfical reproductive organs. Perhaps it and an organic character could have a cyborg?

And speaking of cyborgs:
Did the "enhancements" leave room for reproductive organs?

[BillionSix]

I am curious. Are you asking for pure academic interest? Or do you think it will be a part of your game?
Most games don't have rules for pregnancy, since having a pregnant character slows down the game.
I can see only a few cases where it could enter into a game.
You want to have an NPC get pregnant, like the PC's girlfriend or wife. Or you want to explore in-game the ramifications of having a baby that might be superpowered.
The PC wants to have a baby, which isn't good for adventuring, but can happen if you get someone who is into the character immersion, realism thing.
The GM has a sexual hangup and wants to punish the players for having their characters be sexually active. "HA! Now you're pregnant! That's what happens to you for being a ho! Then everyone comes and throws garbage at you! Then God kills you!" (I am not accusing anyone, but I have seen similar stuff.)

Anyway, personally, I wouldn't try to do anything extreme like make mechanics for it. It would end up like those old stories about critical hit tables where none of the characters have any ears left. You'd end up with a whole campaign full of pregnant people, until all the PCs took vows of chastity. If you want pregnancy to be part of the story, then use it. If you think it will f*** up the story, then leave it out.

As for who could have children, I'd say any of the human ones, like special training, natural genius, or hardware have a normal chance.
Robots obviously can't.
Bionics could go either way, depending on how many human parts are left.
Aliens would not be able to mate with humans, at least following real-world genetic rules. But you may want to follow comic book rules. in which case anything goes.
Magic characters are generally human, though Mystically Bestowed might cause some problems with the switching between forms. Maybe they will be either infertile, or locked into the pregnant form until birth. A more grim idea would be to have a miscarriage if you change forms. "Are you willing to sacrifice your child.... to SAVE THE EARTH???"
Mutants have that whole dominant/recessive thing happening. I've heard that in real life, mutations tend to be recessive, so a mutant/human mix would probably be human. A mutant/mutant mix will likely be a mutant.
Experiments would probably have normal kids, unless their genetics have been altered, in which case they might be rendered infertile, or would have a chance of a mutant kid.
Mutant animals would be a strange and possibly disturbing case. They definately would not be able to have children with humans, and probably wouldn't try, unless the mutant animal looked very human, and probably grew up around humans. Even still, there wouldn't be enough genetic similarity to produce children.
Psychics would probably be basically human, in reproductive terms.
Empowered heroes would still be basically human.
Eugenics hereos almost certainly couldn't reproduce in a normal way.
Human Gestalts could get pregnant seperately, but it would probably mess up their ability to form a gestalt.
Imbued characters might have similar difficulties as the Mystically Bestowed.
Immortals would probably not be able to mate with humans, though there is a subcategory of "Human Immortal" so there could be exceptions.
The Symbiotic Superhuman would probably still be human enough to breed, though again there may be exceptions.

Just my two cents.

Brian

[The Beast]

The only rule governing reproduction is the one that says you can't reproduce outside your species (there are a few exceptions).

Now if you're asking if any of the powers would prevent pregnancy, the only ones I could see having a problem are the APS powers, Control Radiation, and Healing Factor.

[Prince Cherico]

some ideas on how to deal with the raising
kids thing
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MamaBear

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ActionMom

parents are very protective of their kids
and it makes for a usefull hook

[gaby]

I am planing to do game where the most powerful nations are monarchies,with a superpowered nobility,each have a bloodline powers.

what do you think of my idea?

[AlanGunhouse]

In REALITY, any character with super powers would be so altered as to not have the ability to safely reproduce with any character not having nearly identicle abilities. The best example of this in Comics was Reed and Sue Richards, in order to carry Franklin to term they needed to borrow an alien device...and the second time she got pregnant she almost died before losing the baby.

So, if I had to rule as a Biologist, I would say that only characters who are Hardware, Physical Training, Special Training, Super Invention, Imbued, Psychic, Natural Genius, Weapon Master, or Magical could reproduce with normal humans...as well as some Cyborgs. For anyone else, the germ plasm would simply not combine effectively to produce a viable zygote.

Given that this is not reality, however, it depends on whatever most advances the story line.

PS: About inheriting powers. As was stated previously, mutations are generally recessive. What was missed on that is recessive means unless the mutations are nearly identicle, any parts that are not duplicated will be "covered" by the base human genome. If two mutants have a child, any powers not shared by both parents will tend to vanish for generations.

A good example to study is the genetic magic in "7th Sea", which was technically codominant, a child of a full blood and a full blood of the same line was a full blood, a child of a full blood and a normal human was a half blood with only a fraction of the powers, a child of two different lines was half blood in each. Two half bloods of the same line could only have half blood children, but a half blood with a normal might go either way (normal or half blood), as might a half-blood and a full blood of the same line (full or half).

[AlanGunhouse]

As I understood it, the problem was residual cosmic radiationin the DNA.

[csbioborg]

I think there is a real question as to whether extreme mutations can reproduce with regular humnas. RUE says psistalkers can not. ALso there are some basic considerations as to anatmoy and how that would carry over to your reproductive organs. That is addresss in Clerks when they disucss whether the SUperman could reproduce with lois lane. A invueable charecter porblay cannot reproduce with a regular person.

Moreover mutant in life tend to have higher rates of ferility than reuglar members of thie speicies of course species by defination is a clas that can reproduce with each other so I am fudging that word a bit

[csbioborg]

Psi stalkers are weird bald psychic things with dark circles under their eyes who have switched to feeding selectively on the PPE of psychics, mages and the supernatural.

Normal superpowered people are not this different from normal people. They sustain themselves on pudding and tapioca. Stuff like diet is a huge concern regarding babies since they need so much food especially in the womb.

This is more comparable to the 'bio ghost' situation really.

Psi stalkers are a new race, much like the Psi-X Alien from Lone Star. They are an example of a mutation which has affected the germline to the point of creating a new species.

Normal super heroes simply aren't this different. Some might me, some may not be able to breed, but many are still going to be able to.

For example, in Skraypers, the Talus and the things with the bony spikes, can't they still breed interchangably with Seeronians?

Or in Rifts, you've got Achilles Neo-Humans, the Sea Titans, or the SUPER-POWERED people in England, the children of the earth/stars. They've got APS powers and they can still breed with humans and pass on their genes.

If RUE is going to retcon and decide Psi-stalkers can't breed that's fine. I personally think it's a bad idea, because it's not as if the Psi Stalkers sprung out of nowhere and started breeding. They slowly mutated, and I really don't think they've been around long enough for them to not be able to breed with humans anymore. Especially considering how many of them live alongside humans en masse in Chi-Town.

Monkeys eat normal food to and I'd say there is more going on at the gentic level for some that's natural form takes bullets to the chest and is concerned about where to get a new shirt.

I can't remember are Neo HUmans MDC then you might have a arguement. Sea titans created through magic I'd throw that in the its magic no explanation category

THe star/earth people Natrual form is human they simply have psionics that bring on that transformation. Born outside the village they are regular SDC humans. Persaonlly I think Paladium is inconsistent with what can breed and can't I have a real issue with all the Haven mutant being able to breed with humans when they would take a million years of evoltions if they were to become that way naturally and I agree Psi Stalkers problay should be able to reproduce. Evenif it was only human off spring surivive in human wombs and vica versa. I see many of the muttations in Heros Unlimited much more extreme than them however.

[csbioborg]

ya but the germline and somatic cells are going to be to different gnetically for reproduction. The germline cells are going to have the same traits (invunerablity etc) as the somatic cels. There wouuld be a much bigger desprancy than say with a chimp when comparing the different gnetic make up so the axions would not shuffle no feritzliation etc

also what you said about star/earth is exactly what I said.

[AlanGunhouse]

As far as it goes. I am a student of biology with 5 years college level biology under my belt who has spent some 25 years thinking about how super powers would work if they were real.

That being said, I am going to state that supporting most super powers takes considerable changes to bodily structures other than the ones directly effected. I could spend all day listing the specific changes required to support some powers. Even psionic powers take a lot of explaining...

[AlanGunhouse]

"Mostly" is the key Word. Humans share 95% of their biology with Chimpanzees, but they can not reproduce with them.

[runebeo]

Psi stalkers are weird bald psychic things with dark circles under their eyes who have switched to feeding selectively on the PPE of psychics, mages and the supernatural.

Normal superpowered people are not this different from normal people. They sustain themselves on pudding and tapioca. Stuff like diet is a huge concern regarding babies since they need so much food especially in the womb.

This is more comparable to the 'bio ghost' situation really.

Psi stalkers are a new race, much like the Psi-X Alien from Lone Star. They are an example of a mutation which has affected the germline to the point of creating a new species.

Normal super heroes simply aren't this different. Some might me, some may not be able to breed, but many are still going to be able to.

For example, in Skraypers, the Talus and the things with the bony spikes, can't they still breed interchangably with Seeronians?

Or in Rifts, you've got Achilles Neo-Humans, the Sea Titans, or the SUPER-POWERED people in England, the children of the earth/stars. They've got APS powers and they can still breed with humans and pass on their genes.

If RUE is going to retcon and decide Psi-stalkers can't breed that's fine. I personally think it's a bad idea, because it's not as if the Psi Stalkers sprung out of nowhere and started breeding. They slowly mutated, and I really don't think they've been around long enough for them to not be able to breed with humans anymore. Especially considering how many of them live alongside humans en masse in Chi-Town.

Achilles Neo-Human can't have children with humans their closer to mutant animals than human that's what the book says.

[BillionSix]

"Mostly" is the key Word. Humans share 95% of their biology with Chimpanzees, but they can not reproduce with them.

Actually, I have heard a theory that humans and chimpanzees could conceivably produce a hybrid, but as you can imagine, there are serious ethical problems with testing this theory.

Brian

[NMI]

I dont know if this has been mentioned but here Kittenstomp's opinion on the situation - viewtopic.php?p=263220#p263220

[Rallan]

Well if you look at the supers genre as a whole, super parents having super children comes down entirely to story rather than logic. Obviously in some cases the nature of the character or the nature of his superness is gonna disqualify him. An android can't have kids. A cyborg or a guy in power armor or a badass normal or a guy who's wielding a magic artifact doesn't technically have any superpowers to pass on anyway.

As for everyone else? Sure, why not? Characters who've had their DNA fundamentally changed can pop out perfectly ordinary mundane children. Parents who've both got ice powers can pop out a psychic or a kung fu expert. Perfectly normal children can wind up having freak lab accidents or volunteer for secret military testing. There is no rhyme or reason beyond "can we hang a good story on this"? Can we get a good story about an ordinary child's bitterness at the way he'll never be as good as his superhero parents? Can we get a good story out of a child knowing that once he hits puberty he'll become a freak? Can we get a good story out of a mundane child who's driven to take some extraordinarily dangerous course of action to try and get superpowers? Can we get a good story out of Captain Awesome's son developing Awesome Powers and putting on the Awesome Cape to continue the next generation of crimefighting? Can we get a good story out of an infant with Superman's powers?

The answer to the last one is clearly a big fat "NO!" (this was established beyond reasonable doubt back in the silver age of comic books), but the rest are all perfectly good excuses to make pretty much any decision you want about the children of superheroes.

[Overlord Rikonius]

"Mostly" is the key Word. Humans share 95% of their biology with Chimpanzees, but they can not reproduce with them.

Actually, I have heard a theory that humans and chimpanzees could conceivably produce a hybrid, but as you can imagine, there are serious ethical problems with testing this theory.

Brian

I've figured for a while that speciation isn't so much a concrete limit but rather a probability effect, where creatures that are in the same species are fairly likely to be able to procreate successfully, but that closely linked species would still have some probability. Naturally as species drift apart, the probability of a successful production of offspring would decrease until eventually it's effectively impossible.

[AlanGunhouse]

Actually, I have heard a theory that humans and chimpanzees could conceivably produce a hybrid, but as you can imagine, there are serious ethical problems with testing this theory.

Brian

From what I learned in Biology class, it would not work because humans no longer have the same number of chromasomes as chimps. If the chromasome number was the same, there might be "mules" possible...

[Overlord Rikonius]

Actually, I have heard a theory that humans and chimpanzees could conceivably produce a hybrid, but as you can imagine, there are serious ethical problems with testing this theory.

Brian

From what I learned in Biology class, it would not work because humans no longer have the same number of chromasomes as chimps. If the chromasome number was the same, there might be "mules" possible...

Horses have 64 chromosomes, donkeys have 62


btw, chimps have 48, humans have 46

[AlanGunhouse]

I admit, I did not look up the genetic structure of equines, so I will have to take your word for it.

[Rallan]

The way I see it, if humans and chimps could crossbreed, someone would've done it before. Over the hundreds of thousands of years of human existence, an awful lot of people who were willing to do an awful lot of messed up things have been born.

[Zenvis]

CAVEAT: I am not a geneticist.

Rough Chance of Offspring Developing Powers
Mutant-Mutant: 75% (+5% per generation, max 90%)
Mutant-normal Human: 50%
Experiment-Experiment: varies, depending on the nature of the experiment, typically 0% to 50% chance
Experiment-Mutant: between 0 and 75%, again, depending on the nature of the experiment
Experiment-normal human: Probably no greater than 20%
Alien-Alien: 100% if powers are innate to species and both parents are same species, otherwise it varies from 0-50%
Alien-Mutant: 75% or so (conflicting genetics might render such a child monstrous)
Alien-Experiment: Probably not greater than 25% depending on nature of alien species and nature of experiment
Alien-Human: 50% perhaps. Wonky conflicting genetics could spark serious, perhaps debilitating mutations in the child.

I would give more of a chance for 2[sup]nd[/sup] and even greater for 3[sup]rd[/sup] generation experiments (but then they just become mutants don't they) to mate with a human but this list is awesome.

[Zenvis]

when it all boils dowm, it really just becomes a case of what would make a good story.

Mutants may find themselves too inhuman to produce live offspring, or even fertile offspring. Or the mutations of one (or more) parents may be recessive.

Experiments have a similiar problems, (as the aformentioned tetrogenic statement), but if a change persists in many cells, it will also persist in gamete cells, leaving us with the possibility of radically altered offspring (or perfectly normal, or really really sick offspring). If Heroman's geneiss came from radation, then he may continue to irradiate his own reproductive cells (sterillity? mutation?) or constant exposure to his partner may make him or her sterile (or, mutate even further their offspring) Imagine the possibilities the child of radioactive woman, coming to term inside her irradiated womb.

Symbiotes seem nice, but obviously there are cell changes within the host organism. if my squid like symbiote grafted to my neck grants me immunity to disease and enhanced hitpoints, then that's a change that affects my whole body (not to mention any actual powers that I may gain). If I'm swapping blood with an extraterrestrial moocher chances are that something is inside me to pass on (and think of the possibilities with the symbiote power. children born with a dependence on their own symbiote? or a symbiote that periodically impregnates their host?)
Of course, they may remain seperate systems.

Imbued characters are constantly shoving some substance in their veins/nose/throat/wherever. alcohol, and smoking can affect unborn children. So what can powerall-45, a lab created concoction that gives a character superstrength, speed and x-ray vision do to the unborn?

Psionics: could be gentically based (and lord knows, that's how I run them). do you pass it on to your kids? and what if your children grow up to be the first wave of psi-stalkers?

Magic: can spell casting cause unwanted changes in unborn? does wearing a magic ring count as 'exposure to unnusual energies'?

Alien: anything goes here. Palladium has a history of 'no-crossbreeding', but really, half alien heroes are liberally spread through comicdom.

All in all, it's anything goes. In reality, if you are more than human, there's a good chance that you are 'inhuman' and no longer able to breed true with the rest of humanity. between mutation and toxic chemical soup in your blood there is a lot of things that can go wrong with the whole reproductive melodrama.

But..it is a game.

Batts

I love what you have done with the ideas. I had not even considered what those other categories could have the potential for.

[AlanGunhouse]

I admit, some people will try anything they physically can (and a few things they can not).

[Overlord Rikonius]

The way I see it, if humans and chimps could crossbreed, someone would've done it before. Over the hundreds of thousands of years of human existence, an awful lot of people who were willing to do an awful lot of messed up things have been born.

And they may have. There were a few "half man, half chimp" type sideshow freaks in previous centuries, some of whom may've been legit. And then there's the prospect that some dude banged a chimp, saw that she produced a hybrid baby and was so horrified he'd get found out that he destroyed the evidence. Or the chimp escaped into the while and the hybrid died because it wasn't accepted by the other chimps or was unsuited to jungle survival.
And then there's Gary Busey

[mechanik]

This may be slightly off-topic, but what about the Kirn from the Manhunter soourcebook? In the description (from the original version and the Palladium re-write), it describes a racial ability called 'adaptive reproduction' (also mentioned in Kittenstomp's posts). How would a GM decide limits for this? Or determine which of the parental appearances or abilities the resulting cross-breed would have?

[AlanGunhouse]

This may be slightly off-topic, but what about the Kirn from the Manhunter soourcebook? In the description (from the original version and the Palladium re-write), it describes a racial ability called 'adaptive reproduction' (also mentioned in Kittenstomp's posts). How would a GM decide limits for this? Or determine which of the parental appearances or abilities the resulting cross-breed would have?

Actually, Manhunter was an independent game before it became a Rifts setting. There were only 2 races in the game, other than their own, they could reproduce with (I discussed it with the Authors), the Humans and the Chiropti. We can assume they are limited to SDC humanoids.