For the love of Mike, stop the swimsuit/Halloween issues!

[bathawk]

Hey all, I don't mean to be cruel, but isn't a halloween AND a swimsuit issue of the Rifter each year a bit much?

For a monthly publication I wouldn't mind, but with only four issues of the Rifter a year we only get two "normal" books

I even don't mind the Halloween issue that much, but the swimsuit issue? a bunch of pinups, Hammer of the Forge and maybe one other article does not a Rifter make'.

Am I alone on this?

[Braden Campbell]

Well... not entirely alone, no.

It's just my personal opinion, but if it is to be an anual event, I would like to see the Swimsuit Rifter printed in addtion to the regular quarterly issues. That might not be feasable printing cost-wise, but that is what I would like to see.

[BookWyrm]

I would say, if space & costs allow it, do either or both. If not, I can live without it.

[Big Red]

Well... not entirely alone, no.

It's just my personal opinion, but if it is to be an anual event, I would like to see the Swimsuit Rifter printed in addtion to the regular quarterly issues. That might not be feasable printing cost-wise, but that is what I would like to see.

I really like that idea. Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing other special issues from time to time as well, like another x1/2 issue (maybe a special Kreelock Books issue). If it's too costly to include as part of the regular subscription, offer it at a discount to subscribers, which would in turn encourage others to get subscriptions.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I like the Halloween one, I don't have a problem with the 'horror' issue.

And to be honest I like the swimsuit one too, but I can kinda see a "problem' with it being one of 4 slated per year. The first one was a 'new' thing, the second one had stats, but yeah it is kinda a 'throw away' (( Not meaning it's crap but meaning it's very little work or effort put into it))

I mean the artists that do the awesome work, do one or two pics. The guys at palladium spend 20 or 30 minutes doing up stats per pic.. poof it's done and out the door.

I like it. I'd like to see it as a 'bonus issue to subscribers" but I also have 4 (( two of each due to grab bags and subscriptions)) I could do with out it being a yearly event IN PLACE of a rifter.

If it's a bonus IN ADDITION to the rifter subscription, it'd be cooler.

[bathawk]

exactly, I hope no one misunderstood, halloween isn;t my cup of tea, but I know a lot of nightbane/beyond the supernatural fans like it, but how often are you going to pull that swimsuit issue off the shelf?

but again I think you all hit it on the head,, go the Sports Illustrated route and make it a special/collectible for subscribers.

Look at it this way remember Rifter #21? it had PPE channeling and other things that not only made it a had to find collectible, they even made a higher priced "special" collectors version

....don't see that with the swimsuit one

sure they aren't runnign out of "good" material for the rifter are they?

[Warwolf]

I mean the artists that do the awesome work, do one or two pics. The guys at palladium spend 20 or 30 minutes doing up stats per pic.. poof it's done and out the door.

I understand where you guys are coming from, but this simply isn't the case. I took a couple of days to do the research (yes, I did research), develop the back story, roll up the stats, and write it all for publication.

I'd like to see a fifth or even sixth issue of the Rifter per year, but I don't think it's feasible at this point (given current deadlines and such). Not to mention how much demand there might or might not be...

[Aramanthus]

I'm not a subscriber at this time. But I see where both sides are coming from. It'd be nice that Palldium has a lot of material for the Rifter. I hope they continue getting material to support the Rifter!

[Pepsi Jedi]

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the swimsuit issue sucks or anything LIKE that.

I like mine. I like the concept.

But as a subscriber, yes I'd like 4 of my 4 issues a year have "Rifter stuff" in it, and not 3 with one issue with 20 scantly clad gals with write ups. I like the concept but it's a specialty thing. Or it FEELS like it. It really does feel like a "Special, for the fans, and people that pay us all at once for subscriptions" sorta thing.

I'm not going to freak out and stop subscribing if they keep it up but just wording a preference here.

Heck, if I had my way they'd end that fire and forge thing. Not for nothing but it's been going for years and unless you were a subscriber from the start, you've missed out on YEARS worth of story and what not. It takes up 5 to 10 pages per rifter I'd love to see better used. Nothing aginst the story, and yes I understand what a serial is, but this one has drug on for years and years and years and years.

[Warwolf]

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the swimsuit issue sucks or anything LIKE that.

I didn't think you were, I was just clarifying for you that a considerable amount of work goes into the writeups for the Swimsuit Ed. You made a pretty valid point otherwise, which I respect.

[Braden Campbell]

Heck, if I had my way they'd end that fire and forge thing. Not for nothing but it's been going for years and unless you were a subscriber from the start, you've missed out on YEARS worth of story and what not. It takes up 5 to 10 pages per rifter I'd love to see better used. Nothing aginst the story, and yes I understand what a serial is, but this one has drug on for years and years and years and years.

Amen.

I'm actually surprised it wasn't wrapped up on its ten year anniversery.

[Ted Smythe]

The first swimsuit issue had a lot of novelty value, I feel, and it was a useful tool to help make some easy cash for Palladium at a time when they really needed it.

I thought the second one was a definite improvement: statting out the characters in the illustrations definitely made it more useful for me as a GM. Even if I don't use any of the characters in my campaign, it was still more in-line with The Rifter's usual repertoire.

Personally, I think they should drop the meat show and devote the entire next issue to Erick Wujcik. He's earned it and his contribution to roleplaying will outlive what any (imaginary) model in a swimsuit could do. Besides, why are each of the women pictured evil? Aren't there any beautiful women in the Megaverse who are good?

If they are going to keep doing this every year, it isn't going to do much for the Comic Book Guy-stigma that hovers over the adult male roleplaying community. A fourth swimsuit issue might have me rethinking whether to resubscribe anyway. I might have to go back to only picking up the issues that interest me and forgetting the rest. As I understand it, one of the ideas behind The Rifter is a quarterly publication offering something for everyone. At least the Hallowe'en issue can do that.

[Cyrano de Maniac]

It's interesting the that original poster echoed the thoughts that I've been thinking privately since just after the last swimsuit issue. It's also interesting that the HotF comments mirror the unvoiced thoughts I've had for the past year.

I want to be clear, I really enjoyed the two swimsuit issues, but I lament the loss of more substantial content for 1 of the 4 annual issues of The Rifter. Pre-generated NPCs aren't really all that interesting to me, but my answer to this question:

exactly, I hope no one misunderstood, halloween isn;t my cup of tea, but I know a lot of nightbane/beyond the supernatural fans like it, but how often are you going to pull that swimsuit issue off the shelf?

is "More often that I'd like to admit."

Halloween is another matter. I know it's a tradition, but it's not often been very interesting to me. That said, over the past few months I've started to look seriously at BTS and Nightbane, so perhaps my interest in that issue will rise. Thanks for the hardcover BTS in the Christmas Grabbag guys!

Anyway, for at least the swimsuit edition I'd sure appreciate it being a special extra-cost edition outside of the normal Rifter quarterly issues. I'd beg that it be available to non-subscribers as well, as I do my best to promote Palladium locally by buying from my local games/comic shop, which has the benefit of supporting the shop as well. That's the one and only reason I don't subscribe to The Rifter.

Regarding Hammer of the Forge, I'll admit that the Phase World setting has never been my cup of tea, but I've followed the story from the beginning nevertheless. A few years ago when some of the big events in the storyline were happening, I even found myself looking forward to the next episode. But over the past few years the story has felt like it's dragging out somewhat aimlessly. I'd say go ahead and close down the story while it's still good, rather than let it linger like venerable but aged NFL quarterbacks past their prime.

And I'll gladly second the notion of an Erick Wujcik issue, perhaps featuring an in-depth biography and interview with him, hopefully such that it sees print while he can still appreciate it with his friends.

Just my $0.02,
Brent

[drewkitty ~..~]

I'll say my peace, The halloween issue has been turning from ok to bad. However I would rather keep the idea of having a annual specilty issue but only having one per year not two, and the swimsuit idea is better then anything else out there right now.while its good to have some monsters to fight, that particuler gerne is at a saturation point and I would like to see more 'just bad guys/gals to fight. But maybe it might be wise to include what they would normally wear in their writen physical apperence or a dual spread of both the swimsuit and their normal super/villen/everyday outfits.


PS: and no more picts of kevin and the guys in their shorts...*shivers*.
Though that cute intern in a swimsuit would be a welcome change.

[Aramanthus]

I'll continue buying the swimsuit issue! Especially if they are statted out as NPCs!

[Slag]

Well... not entirely alone, no.

It's just my personal opinion, but if it is to be an anual event, I would like to see the Swimsuit Rifter printed in addtion to the regular quarterly issues. That might not be feasable printing cost-wise, but that is what I would like to see.

I agree. I love doing the swimsuit issues (had alot of fun coming up with Artemis' background story based on Zelesnik's sketch) and am more than happy to make it a yearly habit, but the only reason I get to write for PB now is thanks to the Rifter. And more Rifter = more opportunities for new writers.

Keep the Halloween issues, though: PB has SO MANY good horror opportunities and it's a guaranteed source of material on BtS, NB, etc., that are otherwise often overlooked.

[Library Ogre]

Just to chime in, I think I'm in the majority here... the swimsuit issue is a neat idea, but I'd prefer it as an extra issue. The October horror issue, however, covers several games (Nightbane and BtS specifically, and others are possible to incorporate horror themes), without disrupting the normal purpose of the Rifter.

[sHaka]

I too like the Halloween issues as a fan of BTS and I'm cool with a dedicated Horror issue. Haven't picked up a swimsuit ed. yet so not sure what I'm missing.

I too skip the HotF, as a recent Rifter buyer the story's so far gone I can't pick it up. What would be better IMO is a monthly short story from the anywhere in megaverse, and of course a horror story for October.

[verdilak]

Well... not entirely alone, no.

It's just my personal opinion, but if it is to be an anual event, I would like to see the Swimsuit Rifter printed in addtion to the regular quarterly issues. That might not be feasable printing cost-wise, but that is what I would like to see.

I agree. I love doing the swimsuit issues (had alot of fun coming up with Artemis' background story based on Zelesnik's sketch) and am more than happy to make it a yearly habit, but the only reason I get to write for PB now is thanks to the Rifter. And more Rifter = more opportunities for new writers.

Keep the Halloween issues, though: PB has SO MANY good horror opportunities and it's a guaranteed source of material on BtS, NB, etc., that are otherwise often overlooked.

QFT

[ghost2020]

My two cents (which mirrors a lot of posters here)


- Keep the Halloween/Horror-centric issue. I like that, lots of ways to apply horror to the various Palladium lines.

-Make the swimsuit a bonus to subscribers or and extra bonus yearly issue. I'd rather have a regular Rifter instead.

-Hammer of the Forge. Good lord. Wrap it up already. I quit reading this because it's months between installments, then I have to go back, reread a bit, then start over. Cripes. Be done with this already or just publish it as a novel and be done. Free up those pages for other articles.

I know a lot of work goes into the Rifter and I (and no doubt WE) appreciate it. This in no way is a slam against the product, just some comments on what might be worthwhile changes.

[MADMANMIKE]

..C'mon guys, you don't have to love me. Really, I don't think I'm even that likable...

-Mike <8]

[Warwolf]

..C'mon guys, you don't have to love me. Really, I don't think I'm even that likable...

-Mike <8]

I was wondering how long it would take you...

[RockJock]

I skipped the first swimsuit issue, but I will make use of NPCs from the statted version. I like the swimsuit issue, but I agree with the consensus that if it is one of the 4 a year every year it looses the uniqueness.

[Sureshot]

Just to chime in, I think I'm in the majority here... the swimsuit issue is a neat idea, but I'd prefer it as an extra issue. The October horror issue, however, covers several games (Nightbane and BtS specifically, and others are possible to incorporate horror themes), without disrupting the normal purpose of the Rifter.

Seconded. Though I do think that the Hotf story is starting get long. It feels like it's never going to end and imo stale. It's about time we get a new story in the Rifter.

[Brian Manning]

I skipped the first swimsuit issue, but I will make use of NPCs from the statted version. I like the swimsuit issue, but I agree with the consensus that if it is one of the 4 a year every year it looses the uniqueness.

It may lose the uniqueness, but I love doing the "research" for it all-year round. Honestly, I think there are a ton of ideas that Palladium can use for downloadable content, and I think the swimsuit issues would work well for that, even if it didn't make it to a full blown "extra" printed Rifter issue. I like the idea of the Halloween issue, though. I think those issues are generally more accepted as a "themed" Rifter.

[jade von delioch]

i have to agree. the swim suite issues are a waste of money and i never buy them. ya, the are usually (depending on who is doing it) is great, but nothing of value comes out of any of them.

[Tags]

hmmm... I dunno, it's a Rifter so I but it... hate gaps in my collection.

[Northern Ranger]

Not sure what kind of strokes you're talking about there Josh, but I concur with you overall sentiment. I liked them both. Don't necessarily think they need to do another one, but if they keep doing something different with them, or maybe using up less of the book with them, it's cool by me!

[verdilak]

I just hate getting a book with an ongoing storyline, pages on updates from PB, and npcs in skimpy outfits...

I say just make a normal rifter and add on the skimpy clothed npc's to a normal rifter, so that we get normal rifter-goodness.

[Jeffrey W.]

I'm with Bathawk and the others; please stop the broken record-player mentality of repeating the Halloween and swimsuit editions of the Rifter each year, (this might read sarcastically, because you can't see me grinning as I type this, so try not to get an ulcer while reading this).

Wayne should implement this practice quickly, before Palladium Books can think of publishing a "Best of the Rifter" edition once per year.

Seriously, this strange Rifter repeat tradition might negatively impact the intended creativity of the Rifter forum.

Thanks to Bathawk, and others, for saying that which up until now, I've only been thinking.

[Library Ogre]

I'm with Bathawk and the others; please stop the broken record-player mentality of repeating the Halloween and swimsuit editions of the Rifter each year, (this might read sarcastically, because you can't see me grinning as I type this, so try not to get an ulcer while reading this).

Wayne should implement this practice quickly, before Palladium Books can think of publishing a "Best of the Rifter" edition once per year.

Seriously, this strange Rifter repeat tradition might negatively impact the intended creativity of the Rifter forum.

Thanks to Bathawk, and others, for saying that which up until now, I've only been thinking.

See, I'll continue to disagree with you about the Halloween issue. The Swimsuit issue, while fun, gets a little repetitive. The Halloween issue, however, simply ensures that there are spotlights on other a certain kind of thing... in this case horror... on which two of Palladium's games are based, and which others can include.

[Library Ogre]

Incidentally, Re: The Swimsuit Issue. My ex insists that there should be beefcake in it, too. Equal representation, and all.

[Library Ogre]

Incidentally, Re: The Swimsuit Issue. My ex insists that there should be beefcake in it, too. Equal representation, and all.

You gonna pose big guy?

She specifically disallowed that. I figure we plant this idea in Comfort Love's head NOW, and she'll oblige the ladies with beefcake, should the swimsuit issue be repeated.

[csbioborg]

I whole heatedily agree. Maybe once a year have a special themed issue but really I am not 15 if I want to meet/see girls I go to a bar. Also I just plain don't like having to many NPCs in a rifter I want more background info spells OCCs weapons.

[AlexM]

First of all, it takes just as much creativity to do a swimsuit or horror issue as opposed to any other issue of The Rifter. I'll pass the comments by Kevin. We are still preparing to launch therifter.com.



Alex Marciniszyn

[csbioborg]

First of all, it takes just as much creativity to do a swimsuit or horror issue as opposed to any other issue of The Rifter. I'll pass the comments by Kevin. We are still preparing to launch therifter.com.



Alex Marciniszyn

Sure but they don't give as much source material to work with for players. Which is is ultimately why I and most people decide whether we are going to spend our money on a supplement.

BTW Siege of Tolkeen 3 dollar downloadable pdf
I'd love to get a copy since I haven't read it in years and tracking down all those rifters is not feasble.

[Jason Richards]

Sure but they don't give as much source material to work with for players.

I think that the Swimsuit Issue might be best used as a web supplement or whatnot, but I strongly disagree with your statement. These NPCs are villains and/or other plot points for adventure that offer the widest variety of gaming in a single article. Each one is an adventure opportunity or at least an encounter that is directly usable in a game. The last issue, for example, has characters for Rifts, Fantasy, After the Bomb, Beyond the Supernatural, Heroes Unlimited and I think even Splicers. One article (even two) in its place would not provide source material to match the quantity or range of the pin-ups.

[Spinachcat]

With only 4 Rifters per year, the idea of 2 themed issues seems tough to fully justify for the average subscriber. Maybe the better idea is a revolving situation so each year gets 1 themed issue so the Swimsuit edition would only happen every 3 years or so.

The swimsuit issue is a fun gimmick, but with Sports Illustrated you have so many other issues all year long while the Rifter one leaves everyone hanging for months before the "regular" issues.

I do not know if it is viable for Wayne & PB, but if the majority of the fans would be open to spending more money on Rifters, maybe it would be good idea to increase production to 6 issues per year at the same size. I know that lots of Rifters move through the retail channels and I don't know how well they sell at the store level to justify printing 2 more per year from a business perspective.

[Levi]

Although I like the swimsuit issues, I can see that getting repetitive. However, I think the Horror/Hallow issue will never get old it is just way too cool.

However, someone hinted at an idea I think is great; Rifter Pin-up each issue. That could be cool. If each one fits the issues theme and has a background and stats I think it would be a great addition to the Rifter.

[bar1scorpio]

Yeah.. I agree with this, mainly because the swimsuit issues just make the rifter look.. .well, a bit bad now. You do it once, everybody chuckles, but by the third time that you do this, people are going to think you're weird, you know? Think about it this way -

You do 12 issues a year of a magazine, or a weekly even, and noone's going to notice you doing a swimsuit issue. You do 4 issues a year, one of them is going to regularly be a swimsuit/pinup issue, and people are going to notice that 25% of your supplements are dedicated to girly images. And that brings you dangerously close to being that guy. Please. Don't be that guy.

And it really just reinforces the ugly stereotypes about Role Playing Gamers in general... you know, that basement-dwelling, Hobbit-obsessed, dies-a-virgin, unwashed smell-'em-before-you-see-'em stereotype? Talks to his collection of miniatures, can't hold a normal conversation without bringing up his 12th level Paladin, bedroom decorated in pentagrams, skulls magic cards and other assorted satanic imagery?

Basically, a casual shopper at a gamestore picks up a copy of say, D&D or Warhammer, looks at the cover, and says, "Oh, explosions. Dragons." The more Swimsuit issues you put out, the more likely a casual gamer will pick up a Palladium book and say, "Oh, perverts.". And I'm pretty sure that's not the image that Palladium wants to project into the world.

That said. Mumah had the best stuff this time around, the wash shading worked for his stuff.

[MADMANMIKE]

Basically, a casual shopper at a gamestore picks up a copy of say, D&D or Warhammer, looks at the cover, and says, "Oh, explosions. Dragons." The more Swimsuit issues you put out, the more likely a casual gamer will pick up a Palladium book and say, "Oh, perverts.". And I'm pretty sure that's not the image that Palladium wants to project into the world.

..This is laughable. The simple fact is Sex sells. And when you're target demographic is historically socially awkward males between the ages of 13 and 40, this is doubly true.

..If you don't like it, don't buy it.

..Oh, and incidentally, I submitted a beefcake image, but it was rejected. Actually it wasn't that good, but it wasn't finished either, more of a proof of concept.

-Mike <8]

[bar1scorpio]

..Oh, and incidentally, I submitted a beefcake image, but it was rejected. Actually it wasn't that good, but it wasn't finished either, more of a proof of concept.

Ah dang. But you tried. Well are you confident enough to scan the piece in sometime? I've always thought what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Fred Perry's Gold Digger works that in enough. ^^

My point is; provide perhaps, less fuel for the fire.

[Sureshot]

Looked through it today at my FLGS and decided not to buy it. I bought the first and second issues. Not the third or fourth. I just can't come up with a good reason anymore to buy them. I rather buy the regular Rifters. Though Evans art is the best in the entire book imo. I hope PB keeps him on a long time.

[MADMANMIKE]

..Oh, and incidentally, I submitted a beefcake image, but it was rejected. Actually it wasn't that good, but it wasn't finished either, more of a proof of concept.

Ah dang. But you tried. Well are you confident enough to scan the piece in sometime? I've always thought what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Fred Perry's Gold Digger works that in enough. ^^

My point is; provide perhaps, less fuel for the fire.

Dogman. As I said, just a proof of concept, not nearly finished.

-Mike<8]

[bar1scorpio]

This is an old idea that I had... a biotic from Splicers

[csbioborg]

Basically, a casual shopper at a gamestore picks up a copy of say, D&D or Warhammer, looks at the cover, and says, "Oh, explosions. Dragons." The more Swimsuit issues you put out, the more likely a casual gamer will pick up a Palladium book and say, "Oh, perverts.". And I'm pretty sure that's not the image that Palladium wants to project into the world.

..This is laughable. The simple fact is Sex sells. And when you're target demographic is historically socially awkward males between the ages of 13 and 40, this is doubly true.

..If you don't like it, don't buy it.

..Oh, and incidentally, I submitted a beefcake image, but it was rejected. Actually it wasn't that good, but it wasn't finished either, more of a proof of concept.

-Mike <8]

I don't. I could see your arguement in regards to Ken Kelly style of art where the girl happens to be scatily clad as part of a larger scheme. However in the instant case the previous thread starters arguement is more presuasive as the artwork is blantantly appealing to the readers purient interest. As that is the case, the viewers often will make that judgement. Even if not, the parent of the lower range in that demogrpahic might.

[MADMANMIKE]

Basically, a casual shopper at a gamestore picks up a copy of say, D&D or Warhammer, looks at the cover, and says, "Oh, explosions. Dragons." The more Swimsuit issues you put out, the more likely a casual gamer will pick up a Palladium book and say, "Oh, perverts.". And I'm pretty sure that's not the image that Palladium wants to project into the world.

..This is laughable. The simple fact is Sex sells. And when you're target demographic is historically socially awkward males between the ages of 13 and 40, this is doubly true.

..If you don't like it, don't buy it.

..Oh, and incidentally, I submitted a beefcake image, but it was rejected. Actually it wasn't that good, but it wasn't finished either, more of a proof of concept.

-Mike <8]

I don't. I could see your arguement in regards to Ken Kelly style of art where the girl happens to be scatily clad as part of a larger scheme. However in the instant case the previous thread starters arguement is more presuasive as the artwork is blantantly appealing to the readers purient interest. As that is the case, the viewers often will make that judgement. Even if not, the parent of the lower range in that demogrpahic might.

..This doesn't jive. While obviously some viewers would make that judgment, THE TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC, ie "a casual shopper at a gamestore", would not.

-Mike <8]

[bar1scorpio]

Then again, was it the casual shopper, that has ever been the bane of the RPG industry? No.

It's the moms. Who are now in those stores all the time to buy the YuGiOh cards & the like, so...

We're an Exalted cover away from another media watchdog freakout on cable news (though I'm not sure if the publicity would hurt at this point...).

[MADMANMIKE]

Then again, was it the casual shopper, that has ever been the bane of the RPG industry? No.

It's the moms. Who are now in those stores all the time to buy the YuGiOh cards & the like, so...

We're an Exalted cover away from another media watchdog freakout on cable news (though I'm not sure if the publicity would hurt at this point...).

..< sigh>...

..The Casual shopper is the demographic, and thus the one likely to buy the product, not have the absurd reaction "Oh, Perverts". Me thinks thou needeth some sleep...

..Overzealous moms complaining about that which they don't understand are no more of a problem than the people complaining on this thread; they won't influence the "casual shopper"; if they did, the casual shopper wouldn't exsist.

-MIke <8]

[MADMANMIKE]

My wife (mother of 5), my mother in law, and my grandmother all thought the art was beautiful. My Grandmother was so taken with Mark Evans cover that she asked me if he did commission work.

..That's great; don't let them look at pages 59 or 62, they might change their minds.

-Mike <8]