tattoes of magic

[runebeo]

Sure! The GM can do whatever he wants in his campaign.

[AlanGunhouse]

Well, the T-man archer has various magical tattoos to enchant arrows, so it is not impossible to assume a "silver arrow" tattoo could be designed for them. It would probably be based on the weapon in flames with the coiled snake...only instead it would be something like a weapon in flames piercing a wolf.

[Nekira Sudacne]

would you allow a separate or integrated tattoo in tattoo magic that makes silver arrows or arrows of a particular material like wood or cold Iron.......

No. It says specifically all tattoos are made from Ectoplasem, which kind of rules out an actual substance.

[Library Ogre]

would you allow a separate or integrated tattoo in tattoo magic that makes silver arrows or arrows of a particular material like wood or cold Iron.......

No. It says specifically all tattoos are made from Ectoplasem, which kind of rules out an actual substance.

D to the itt to the o.

Ectoplasm =/= wood
Ectoplasm =/= silver.

[AlanGunhouse]

Possibly you can emulate the magical properties of wood or silver though. After all, they have tattoos that create quite real fire, water, and lightning.

[AlanGunhouse]

Well, create wood is a legal spell (so is create steel)...but I do not think it says that a T-Archer creates arrows of wood. I am not looking at the page just now though, I could be wrong.

[Temporalmage]

would you allow a separate or integrated tattoo in tattoo magic that makes silver arrows or arrows of a particular material like wood or cold Iron.......

No. It says specifically all tattoos are made from Ectoplasem, which kind of rules out an actual substance.

??? But you can create wood arrows... can't you???

Where does it say that?

It don't matter what the arrows LOOK like thier made of. They are still magical constructs that will disapear once used, and it's thier magical nature that even lets then do damage. They are NOT made of anything REAL.

Otherwise a T-man could extrapolate from that and cut the leg off of his T-Chicken and make himself dinner.

[Temporalmage]

I Did't say the book said they could... I ASKED a question. Or didn't you notice the ?

??? But you can create wood arrows... can't you???

Did you notice the "?" in my question?

No reason to get touchy bud!

[runebeo]

I have a question. Could a Monster Hunter using his monster shaping tattoos go undetected by Night Lords minions who are immune to illusion and can see threw magical or psionic disguise or camouflage. I hoping it can since its more a physical costume than illusional mask, yet I guess they can see a Nightbane in his facade form. What do you think?

[AlanGunhouse]

Anyone who can see true forms would not be fooled by a disguise tattoo. As mentioned, it is not an illusion, so seeing through illusions would not work. If someone can detect Nightbane and Werebeasts, however, than it can detect this.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Possibly you can emulate the magical properties of wood or silver though. After all, they have tattoos that create quite real fire, water, and lightning.

There are no magical properties of wood or silver. Any effect they have on supernatural creatures is on that creatures end, not the wood.

[Nekira Sudacne]

so i guess that means conjurer's from the rifters also cannot make particular materials when they form PPE into objects...........?

Conjorers from the Rifter I have no idea.

Conjorers from the Federation of Magic book certainly can, They make real objects.

Tattoos only use ectoplasem.

it's not a limit on all magical creation, only for tattoos.

[Library Ogre]

hmmmm one would think the tatto magic that has been around for thousands of years would be able to pull such a feat off before a relatively new art like conjuring, but I guess conjuring operates on summoning real objects and not making things from ectoplasm, but i figured metaphysically conjuration would create these objects the same or in a similar way, afterall ectoplasm cant be that far removed from actual matter that magic couldn't bridge that gap, at least for a time

Conjuring is thousands of years old. Mt. Nimro goes into its history on Palladium.

[Marcethus]

Where does it say that all objects created by Tattoo Magic are ectoplasm?

[Library Ogre]

It doesn't specify about weapons, but it does about Monsters and Animals (Atlantis, pages 88 and 90), and also about Monster Shaping tattoos (SA, pg. 101). Given that they're all the same kind of magic, it is a reasonable assumption, not a solid fact.

[Marcethus]

Hmmm interesting I had forgotten that Monsters, animals and the Monster Shaping tattoos were ectoplamsic things. Good Point.

[Marcethus]

Only restriction you may have to watch out for is if the GM says that each add on is an additional Tattoo.

[Nekira Sudacne]

NPC's don't count.

[Marcethus]

Only restriction you may have to watch out for is if the GM says that each add on is an additional Tattoo.

Uhm, that would be very against canon. So I GUESS if you have a gm that would do something like that, but that's stupid for more reasons than one...

Actually its very much with Canon. Look up Percival in england it mentions how some of his tattoos are more then one. because of combined Features. (IIRC)

[Marcethus]

Maybe they mean it counts as 3 tattoos when activated? Since T-men Can only have a limited number of tats activated at one time.

[Marcethus]

If a player wanted to have silver or wooden tats I might let them on the basis of it's given as an example of npcs which means that someone out there knows how to do it.

Yeah I agree, it's kind of trivial all things considered and would really only come into play in a small number of circumstances.

The only thing it will really affect is tattooed men vs. undead like Vampires.

And I think I'm quite happy with Undead Slayers in particular being effective against the undead.

The flaming weapon tattoo is quite effective against Vampires. Since Magic weapons do full damage against Vamps.

[Khanibal]

Then again Galahad has a "pair of crossed, flaming battle axes dripping blood". Which by the description seems to create 2 battle axes for him to use. Which I'm pretty sure is not how the actual crossed weapon magic tattoo is supposed to work.

Crossed weapons grants bonus of +1 strike, and +2 parry.
The tattoo should create ONE battle axe that does 4d6 M.D. and is +1 to strike, and +2 to parry.

I'd count it as one tattoo. It's not going to unblance the game to do so, but I'd make the player pay P.P.E. to activate all features whenever he used the tattoo.

[Marcethus]

The flaming weapon tattoo is quite effective against Vampires. Since Magic weapons do full damage against Vamps.

No argument there.

Although silver & wood weapons explicitly allow you to stake a Vampire through the heart and incapacitate them.

Were it me, I'd allow the same of magic weapons, but unfortunately it's not worded that way.

Also, A silver sword dripping blood grants a lot of bang for your buck in terms of PPE cost, duration and damage.

That's why I wouldn't allow a tattoo to be made of silver. Too great of an effect too little cost.

[Talavar]

Ah, one of the other endlessly burning issues for Tattoo Magic, I like the idea that non-tattooed men need to pay double.

Unless they are True Atlanteans, in which case I think they should not have to pay double. Unfortunately the rules are not clear on one hand you have the double PPE rule (which doesn't mention specifically by the way TAs) and then you have "...all Atlanteans are taught to use their Tattoos..." (pg 16 WB 2: Atlantis)

Regardless, I always thought a nice house rule would be that after X number of levels (say 5, or 7) any non-full tattooed man no longer needs to pay double the PPE cost (but they still need to touch them to activate).

While the rules are unclear, I don't believe True Atlanteans should or do pay double for the use of magic tattoos - if they do pay double, any True Atlantean with only 2 tattoos (the Marks of Heritage) doesn't have enough PPE to activate one of them - the Protection from Vampires tat. Since getting magic tattoos is a painful and harrowing process, it seems incredibly stupid to me that a whole culture of people would inflict a useless magic tattoo on themselves.

[Marcethus]

That's why I wouldn't allow a tattoo to be made of silver. Too great of an effect too little cost.

I can see why you wouldn't, but I personally would. (I'd also lobby a GM for it )

Burulovesyou's idea is a good compromise, but even then I'd keep it to 5 PPE total for a simple weapon (more than twice the actual cost)

Buru's idea has merit for the extra cost. I just think with the Magic Flaming weapon being able to damage Vampires. That they don't need to have a silver weapon along with the too little cost for great effect.

[TechnoGothic]

would you allow a separate or integrated tattoo in tattoo magic that makes silver arrows or arrows of a particular material like wood or cold Iron.......

T-Archer has tattooes which create Wood Arrows to fight Vampires already. (see Splynn Market or Book of Magic)
T-Archer has tattooes which creates Waterbombs or Rain to fight Vampires. (see books)
T-Archer has tattoo arows which create Daylight to fight vampires...

Rifts England has several examples of Magic Tattooes which create Silver daggers, etc...

So YES.
Why Not.

I only know these things cause I was researching Tattoo magics and NPCs because I have 2 PCs who are MAxi-man and an Undead Slayer.

Then again I let anyone select Tattoo arrows though if they want them.

[TechnoGothic]

When someone gets there Seventh Tattoo, they just switched to the Tattoo Man Occ occording to my Rifts Atlantis book. Mages lose all their old spell casting abilities too...

[Damian Magecraft]

The way i see it, especially being how the plateau system is with experience in rpgs, when a t-man occ (whether it be t-man, maxi-man, undead slayer, etc...) levels, the time attribute shouldn't be a factor in whether or not their body is ready for a new tattoo. They are already limited by when they level, why throw another time constraint on top of that. If your body gets to the point where it becomes tougher and infused with more ppe as most people do when they level, why can the character not be allowed to increase the one aspect that their class is entirely about? The way we rule it is that for t-men classes, when they level that is the evidence that it is their body is ready to receive additional tattoos- though at the the normal class limit.

Now, for classes that aren't t-man classes, they are still subject to the normal 6 months for every 2 tats, that way some chaing-ku cant just pump out an army of super soldiers with 30 tats each and dominate the world ;p.

I don't recall whether or not t-men can be granted additional tattoos as a bonus, like those that other people could acquire, but if that is the case then I would keep the 6 month rule subject to that too.

Honestly though, if I were a player, and the only ability my class got- that which is the entire aspect of the class- had to wait 6 months as well as a level every time I wanted it to grow in power, I'd be a bit peeved.

considering how long some real life tats can take to be done properly I view the 6 months as the length of time it takes before the tat is completed (but then I do a lot of extensive RP sessions).

[AlanGunhouse]

It is a valid question. why should there be a time delay as well as a level limit? Well, on the bright side, if you ever have a break in the game so that "2 years psass" or the like, you could catch up at tattoos you are "owed". Not that such extended breaks are common...

[Damian Magecraft]

The way i see it, especially being how the plateau system is with experience in rpgs, when a t-man occ (whether it be t-man, maxi-man, undead slayer, etc...) levels, the time attribute shouldn't be a factor in whether or not their body is ready for a new tattoo. They are already limited by when they level, why throw another time constraint on top of that. If your body gets to the point where it becomes tougher and infused with more ppe as most people do when they level, why can the character not be allowed to increase the one aspect that their class is entirely about? The way we rule it is that for t-men classes, when they level that is the evidence that it is their body is ready to receive additional tattoos- though at the the normal class limit.

Now, for classes that aren't t-man classes, they are still subject to the normal 6 months for every 2 tats, that way some chaing-ku cant just pump out an army of super soldiers with 30 tats each and dominate the world ;p.

I don't recall whether or not t-men can be granted additional tattoos as a bonus, like those that other people could acquire, but if that is the case then I would keep the 6 month rule subject to that too.

Honestly though, if I were a player, and the only ability my class got- that which is the entire aspect of the class- had to wait 6 months as well as a level every time I wanted it to grow in power, I'd be a bit peeved.

considering how long some real life tats can take to be done properly I view the 6 months as the length of time it takes before the tat is completed (but then I do a lot of extensive RP sessions).

When healing isn't really a factor, this becomes a moot point. We need time to heal and whatnot between shading, touch ups etc. But when you can do the tat, heal the person up, add your touch ups, etc. Granted there are the sickness and pain factors listed, but that's more from the pain involved in the magical tattoo process as opposed to normal tat's.

Were these normal non-magical tats I would agree with your assessment that healing time is moot. However these are Magical-tats and the question becomes can healing be aided by magical means? Since the books do not give a clear answer on this (nor do I think they should) the decision is left to each game master as it fits his/her vision. I view the two forms of magic as being incompatible and therefore the time constraint is appropriate.

[Marcethus]

The way i see it, especially being how the plateau system is with experience in rpgs, when a t-man occ (whether it be t-man, maxi-man, undead slayer, etc...) levels, the time attribute shouldn't be a factor in whether or not their body is ready for a new tattoo. They are already limited by when they level, why throw another time constraint on top of that. If your body gets to the point where it becomes tougher and infused with more ppe as most people do when they level, why can the character not be allowed to increase the one aspect that their class is entirely about? The way we rule it is that for t-men classes, when they level that is the evidence that it is their body is ready to receive additional tattoos- though at the the normal class limit.

Now, for classes that aren't t-man classes, they are still subject to the normal 6 months for every 2 tats, that way some chaing-ku cant just pump out an army of super soldiers with 30 tats each and dominate the world ;p.

I don't recall whether or not t-men can be granted additional tattoos as a bonus, like those that other people could acquire, but if that is the case then I would keep the 6 month rule subject to that too.

Honestly though, if I were a player, and the only ability my class got- that which is the entire aspect of the class- had to wait 6 months as well as a level every time I wanted it to grow in power, I'd be a bit peeved.

considering how long some real life tats can take to be done properly I view the 6 months as the length of time it takes before the tat is completed (but then I do a lot of extensive RP sessions).

When healing isn't really a factor, this becomes a moot point. We need time to heal and whatnot between shading, touch ups etc. But when you can do the tat, heal the person up, add your touch ups, etc. Granted there are the sickness and pain factors listed, but that's more from the pain involved in the magical tattoo process as opposed to normal tat's.

Were these normal non-magical tats I would agree with your assessment that healing time is moot. However these are Magical-tats and the question becomes can healing be aided by magical means? Since the books do not give a clear answer on this (nor do I think they should) the decision is left to each game master as it fits his/her vision. I view the two forms of magic as being incompatible and therefore the time constraint is appropriate.

I agree with Damian on this. And add my own two cents: The time constraint could also represent the time needed to learn the use of your new gotten tattoos as well as time for the body to adjust to having them since the tattoos bond to the user via the magics used in their creation.

[Damian Magecraft]

I agree with Damian on this. And add my own two cents: The time constraint could also represent the time needed to learn the use of your new gotten tattoos as well as time for the body to adjust to having them since the tattoos bond to the user via the magics used in their creation.

The stipulation of not recieving another tattoo for 6 months isn't in the section on healing. For all game purposes, the character is fully healed in 1d4+3 days maximum for Power Tattoos (the most damaging).

The 6 month restriction is in the tattoo section of each Tattooed man O.C.C.


I will say that I do agree to some extent that the body needs to adjust to the new tattoos.

However, I also agree with Burulovesyou in that they shouldn't have to gain both a new level and wait 6 months.



Instead, perhaps a compromise better.

Something like, a Tattooed man can not receive a new tattoo for at least 6 months from receiving a prior tattoo OR until they gain a new level of experience - which ever comes first.

That would be pretty fair, and not unbalanced IMO.

until you run across the character that is hundreds of years old yet only a level 3 Tattoo man w/ 80 tats.
give a munchkin an inch they will take a thousand miles.

[Khanibal]

until you run across the character that is hundreds of years old yet only a level 3 Tattoo man w/ 80 tats.
give a munchkin an inch they will take a thousand miles.

Someone still has to ink the tat. The character is going to have a hard time finding anyone who'll do the job for a couch potato. At the very least, the artist will require the t-man to do a "little job" for him.
The only time this becomes an issue is when the character levels faster than every 6 months. If the G.M. runs the player group hard and fast, it may be a few levels until they have enough down time for the t-man to even get inked. Then what? If you've played from lvl 1 to lvl 4, and are just now getting your first "earned" tattoo, the group has to sit around 18-36 months? Or do you continue to adventure until you're high enough level that it takes 6 years to make the next level?
I'd guess that more players run up against this limit, then munchkin around it.