A limit on combat bonuses is needed

[runebeo]

I think +20 should be the highest bonus allowed in any game. The union between the war mounts and host armor can soar well over twenty with some tinkering. With a max of +20 as a rule seems fair to me. This comes up really because in our Rifts campaign a wizard from Palladium Fantasy cast fleet feet on both our Outrider and his Dracos giving them 34 attacks, +32 to strike, +44 to parry, +34 to dodge and +8 to automatic dodge. It was funny one time, but they planned to use it more often and our GM made this rule to stop it from going overboard.

[demos606]

See, stuff like that is why I do 2 things in my games:
1) Don't allow players access to fleet feet
2) Dont take splicers off planet. ever. period.

[runebeo]

Splicers has so many cool things that our group greatly enjoys having around. We just needed some more rules and limits to keep them from stealing the show. Our GM has to approve which enhancements our Outrider get each round and she tries to get him to go for more story driven enhancements like the butcher's organ and horn defense which gives great amount of protection, yet has some drawbacks to work around. She had to do the same kind of thing in our Nightbane campaign after our players just wanted combat helping abilities with bonuses. I thought when Fleet Feet was left out of second edition I did not think it was going to be reprinted then it was and it was cast at the beginning of nearly combat of our PF campaign, I sure wished we had used this max +20 bonus back then. There should be some kind of similar rule for magic and psionics too, their should always be a small chance of theses power having an effect. Maybe sorcerers & psychics should get a battle wills roll to increase spell strength and psionic saving numbers if they pay extra I.S.P. or P.P.E. and costing a few extra actions, since many player have such high resistance bonus against magic even if the bonus was just +2 would make it more fun being able to actually have your spells & powers take effect. I remember when I use to play a shifter, it really annoyed me how our GM would not tell us the monster & opponents saving bonuses then when it over she say "That guy had a +8 to save anyway." I soon stopped casting many spell that people could save against and it took up too many actions. I don't really mind about not knowing the bonus numbers that much, but I felt I was at a disadvantage relying magic since it fails to take effect so often and the P.P.E. price of the spell could have been spent better on boring energy spells instead.

[demos606]

Splicers does indeed have a LOT of hella cool stuff but it's designed to be a standalone setting for the most part. There's a reason magic and psionics are so hosed on their native planet and they're effectively restricted to their own biotech should they find a way off - it's a FAR more powerful setting than almost anything else Palladium has ever published. Remove the magical restrictions, or take Splicers off planet and add magic and you get the insanity you've already noticed. Just because Palladium uses a "megaversal" ruleset doesn't mean all settings are equal and anywhere but maybe 3 Galaxies Splicers characters are just going to stomp on anything that isn't a Splicers level threat - such as might exist only in Madhaven or the Vampire Kingdoms on Rifts Earth.

[runebeo]

I agree Splicers are powerful and can steal the show, but compared to the power of a Glitter Boy their about even.

[demos606]

Glitter Boy doesn't even come close to a Dreadguard or Outrider/Mount by 4th level.

[Spinachcat]

I sure wished we had used this max +20 bonus back then. There should be some kind of similar rule for magic and psionics too, their should always be a small chance of theses power having an effect. Maybe sorcerers & psychics should get a battle wills roll to increase spell strength and psionic saving numbers if they pay extra I.S.P. or P.P.E. and costing a few extra actions, since many player have such high resistance bonus against magic even if the bonus was just +2 would make it more fun being able to actually have your spells & powers take effect.

The max +20 bonus is a good rule. It keeps the min-maxing under control and leaves some chance to the dice regardless of power level. I bet it would lead to more interesting character designs that were not one trick ponies.

Your idea to increase saving numbers is good. I would probably let the mage spend 1 action to focus on the spell before casting to increase the save by 2 and maybe have them spend 10 x the spell level in extra PPE or ISP to gain a save modifier equal to the spell's level. Thus, spend an extra 50 PPE to cause the spell to have a -5 save penalty.

The megaversal system is a misnomer because in general, nothing is remotely balanced against each other so porting anything from one book to the next needs LOTS of GM attention. People complain about Rifts South America, but the books are awesome if you don't export the stuff and keep it within its turf where it makes sense. This goes double for Splicers.

[runebeo]

Like you said there should always be a chance for luck to play a part of combat. My group loves the South American books and Splicers. Sure they have a little more power than other parts of the world, but most of the races are S.D.C. beings. Even the very powerful Monster Hunters have its limits, like lack of range firepower and the extreme P.P.E. cost of his monster shaping tattoos. Think about movies, TV, comic books and popular fiction, the heroes always has powers and abilities above the status quot, South America has tons of great stuff. Our campaigns have a lot of story telling and our GM uses past experiences to wrap up predictable combat encounters and we mainly play out the important parts of our engagements. Rifts is a game where your GM can control the power level to where they think they can handle. In our game only Cosmo-Knights, Godlings, Star Child, Mega Heroes, Psi-Ghost and such are off limits, but not much else is limited and we have a great time over the years. Don't be afraid to include more power it can be removed easily by the GM if it get in the way. I remember in the Federation of magic it says to try not limit the spells a mage can get. Well in a game where giant robot combat is very common and a Glitter Boy's boom gun can deal 3d6x10 it couldn't hurt to have your players wield a little more power. My group has a Achilles Neo Human, Monster Hunter, Shifter, Glitter Girl and a Outrider. All have strength and weaknesses no real problems have come up accept that the Outrider on his Dracos rules close combat, but for fun we played out a battle against him and his Dracos vs the Glitter Boy 7 and she won all three battles with them being close, but not much can stand against a GB with there range bonuses and there firepower.

[goodhometownboy]

Glitter Boy doesn't even come close to a Dreadguard or Outrider/Mount by 4th level.

i couldn't agree any more. one of my level 3 dreadguards is the same or better then the glitter boy all he has is the casting cannon with the omga enhancement so he gets a 4D8x10 md with it and he also has jet thrusters and a crap load of mdc any other weapons he has to carry

[runebeo]

I think Splicers should have been geared more towards having a character go the Rifts Earth. Our GM don't allow the special enhancement weapon upgrades and wants our Outrider to spend his future Bio-E on versatility over just combat upgrades and that's not saying he's not well armed. Blitzkrieg upgrades are Regeneration: Enhanced, Bio-force field: 140 M.D.C., Horn Defense: 2D6 M.D., Elongated Running legs: Can double his running speed up to 280 mph, Enhanced Neurological Connections, Ambidextrous, Spiked Combat Tail, Reinforced Exoskeleton and Heat Resistance.

Weapon Systems:

Heat Projection Cannon, Large Retractable Claws & One Screamer Grenade. Next level he plans on getting the butcher's organ and for his Dracos he plans on getting a web shooter to do fly by pickups of troops and cargo.

Ragnarok his Dracos has Regeneration: Enhanced, Bio-force field: 130 M.D.C., Horned Defense, Reinforced Exoskeleton, Resistance to Lasers, Resistance to Kinetic Energy/ Attacks, Heat Resistance and Chameleon Skin which is reduced effectiveness because of the laser resistant skin.

[9voltkilowatt]

Personally I rather like the high lethality of the Splicers setting; much like the our own history its alot easier to make a weapon to kill a person then it is to make an armor to protect them.

Besides, I rather like the fact that trigger happy "tank" style characters aren't the show stoppers, they're just the distraction so that the real pros can actually complete the mission.

I say let them have their bonuses, they will pay in the long run as after a handful of instances like this it will provoke the Machine to ramp up its efforts.

And quite frankly no one wants that.

[runebeo]

Yes your right, our Dracos gets left out of the main part of some mission because of his sheer power would steal the show, the Dracos has limited freewill and can't react unless attacked so he kind of sucks as a guard dog. Our Glitter Girl also has to sometime sit out side of the building and watch for enemy forces while the rest go in. The Glitter Girl also has two K-9 robot companions that back her up and guard her when she not in her GB 7, she uses a Super Samas on recon missions. Being too powerful has drawback like being the primary target of assaults, the GM having extra surprises directed towards that player and getting cut out of important parts missions.