Splicers into Rifts

[Kryzbyn]

Is there anything already published conversion wise for taking Splicers bio-tech into Rifts?
Like how the heavy PPE rich environment may or may not effect them, etc.?

[RockJock]

You don't think the Bio-tech is powerful enough as is? The bigger worry is the nannites infecting all the tech gear used everywhere. Since they are already MDC I wouldn't boost them because of higher PPE levels. Most magical creatures get boosted, but I don't expect Invid from Robotech as an example to get boosted automatically.

[Kryzbyn]

LOL no I'm not looking for munchkin ideas here. The host armors kick enough ass. I was just wondering if any of the bio-E costs would be lowered or some of the sensory stuff became enhanced, that kind of thing.
I was looking at playing a character that was a dreadguard sumoned by a shifter on accident, or something along those lines.

[RockJock]

I thought there was a little bit about this is the Splicer's book, but the problem becomes there is no way to upgrade your host armor, unless you bring an entire city with you. There is also the issue because you can't use most pieces of tech. The Dreadguard/Host would be as is in my game. You can go up in level as normal, but the suit is stuck.

[LostOne]

I'd keep things as they are, with the following exceptions:

After 1d6 months the character is cured of the nano-plague. This is due to the nano-machines being incapable of rebuilding/repairing themselves and they eventually wear out. I go with the idea that N.E.X.U.S. constantly floods the world in order to maintain the nano-plague levels in the splicers. Only a Technojacker's nano-machines are advanced enough to replicate themselves.

Host Armor and Biotics and anything else enhanced by Bio-E are preprogrammed to "level up" or evolve as their host/pilot/body becomes more capable of handling it (bio-e increases). Upon achieving a new level with enough Bio-E for the next desired enhancement/upgrade, the Host Armor or Biotic can cocoon up entirely for big things (regeneration) or sprout a pod for something small and new (weapon) or cocoon a part to upgrade it.

Really the only class that can't easily be moved to Rifts are the Scarecrows, unless you want to take away their one penalty by having them be implanted with a gland that produces the Elixir of Life, or teaming up with a D-bee who manages to synthesize the stuff.

[RockJock]

Lost One, I disagree with your conversion approach. If that is how you see it in your games, and your group likes it that way, then great. As for me, it takes away the limitations built into Splicers. There is much less reason for a character to stay loyal to his House when his armor can upgrade itself. I understand that it is a way to limit Splicers tech in the rest of the Megaverse, the same with the limitations built into the self replicating nannites, but it is a balance point. If you say that Nexus is spreading them over and over, but they naturally die out, why wouldn't the Houses clean an area and filter them out? Isolate yourself in a cave with out outside air for a year and you would be clean. It just doesn't work that way.

If you make the character a Rifts born character with suit based on a Host Armor, but grown by Splynn, or some other genetic power, or change the background to be a Pre-Rifts genetic armor prototype then sure, drop the nannites. I've done similar in HU. I made a Proto-Host Armor as a government research project.

[LostOne]

There is much less reason for a character to stay loyal to his House when his armor can upgrade itself.

It's more likely that if a Splicer ends up on another world, it's by himself or a small group, not the entire Great House including librarian and engineer getting ported there. My way allows the player to still enjoy the class without getting gimped on the biggest part of leveling up. It also allows the Splicer to be played in that world without completely remaking the world because the nano-plague is slaughtering a large percentage of the population (and probably the rest of the party). If the nano-plague was self-replicating, then a single Splicer landing on Rifts Earth would wipe out the Coalition and most tech-reliant powers. It would be Splicer's world all over again, minus N.E.X.U.S. plus magic and psionics and supernaturals. But if you want to play a Rifts game, you probably don't want to remake the world.

I understand that it is a way to limit Splicers tech in the rest of the Megaverse, the same with the limitations built into the self replicating nannites, but it is a balance point. If you say that Nexus is spreading them over and over, but they naturally die out, why wouldn't the Houses clean an area and filter them out? Isolate yourself in a cave with out outside air for a year and you would be clean. It just doesn't work that way.

How would the Splicers know? The nano-plague has been constant for centuries, why would they even suspect the nanites would die out?

[RockJock]

I was referring to loyal on his home world, when he doesn't owe favors for the upgrades. The sealing off of a section would have been a logical trial before the total loss of tech.

I don't have the book, or any books sitting in front of me at the moment, but I could have sworn there was mention of the nannites replicating in the book. I would at least have the nannites stay in the transfered character's body to keep him from using the best of both worlds. If everyone in my game wanted the nannites to die out I would probably allow it, but then lock the bio equipment where it was. Sort of you can't have your cake and eat it situation.

[runebeo]

I say the millenium tree in the black forest or somewhere should have a permanent portal to Splicer world. Make it hard to get to and let the player return home once in awhile to get upgrades, but have them do missions for their houses to get back in the fold after their time away. Auto-upgrade seems overpowered unless it's very limited like only 2D6 Bio-E points per level. It would make more sense to have a small house start in some little part of the world with a librarian who can do upgrades.

[Spinachcat]

My article in Rifter #0 - Seven Years on Cerebus - is a campaign that combines ideas from Rifts and Splicers. Also, Slappy has an excellent article in there about upgrades to weapons.

It's $3 and easy to print at home. Worth a peek.

[LostOne]

I understand that it is a way to limit Splicers tech in the rest of the Megaverse, the same with the limitations built into the self replicating nannites, but it is a balance point.

I had another thought:
Imagine a splicer is dropped on Rifts Earth, whether it be biotic, host armor and pilot or whatever. They get hit by a single rail gun burst (face it, rail guns are very common). Even if the biotic/host armor has regeneration super (2d6+3 per melee) it is not guaranteed that they will regenerate the damage fast enough to expel the rain gun rounds before they trigger a nano-plague reaction, especially if it's a higher damage rail gun like the CS would use.

So basically, any single bad dodge roll can be a seriously maiming incident for the splicer (whereas power armor or even heavy body armor is likely to shrug it off) because the underpaid merc in plastic man using a cheap rail gun hit the splicer, and soon the nano-plague might make them lose an arm, or worse.

That is something I'd rather not deal with in my game.

[RockJock]

Why wouldn't that happen from a NEXUS railgun then? I always assumed that the healing factor was that good, since it was designed to expel the metal easily. If a little metal under the skin of th Host was all it took NEXUS would be all rail guns all the time.

[LostOne]

Why wouldn't that happen from a NEXUS railgun then?

In my games, it does. Luckily for the Splicers, it's apparently more efficient for the machines to carry energy weapons with unlimited ammo than railguns with limited ammo.

I always assumed that the healing factor was that good, since it was designed to expel the metal easily. If a little metal under the skin of th Host was all it took NEXUS would be all rail guns all the time.

Except that it is hinted at that the NEXUS is no longer in purge mode, it has the human population at a tolerable pest level, and some of the personalities like to toy with the human populace. Arming all the machines with railguns would be a bit too efficient at killing off all the playthings.

[runebeo]

I understand that it is a way to limit Splicers tech in the rest of the Megaverse, the same with the limitations built into the self replicating nannites, but it is a balance point.

I had another thought:
Imagine a splicer is dropped on Rifts Earth, whether it be biotic, host armor and pilot or whatever. They get hit by a single rail gun burst (face it, rail guns are very common). Even if the biotic/host armor has regeneration super (2d6+3 per melee) it is not guaranteed that they will regenerate the damage fast enough to expel the rain gun rounds before they trigger a nano-plague reaction, especially if it's a higher damage rail gun like the CS would use.

So basically, any single bad dodge roll can be a seriously maiming incident for the splicer (whereas power armor or even heavy body armor is likely to shrug it off) because the underpaid merc in plastic man using a cheap rail gun hit the splicer, and soon the nano-plague might make them lose an arm, or worse.

That is something I'd rather not deal with in my game.

The nano-plague is only triggered by skin contact so if a bullet touches the player he be dead before there be a reaction. The Host armor does not trigger nano-plague.

[demos606]

Plague isn't triggered just by skin contact or they'd be able to work metal with tools and it's specifically noted that such isn't possible. HA wouldn't do more than delay the reaction long enough to knock any lodged bullets loose but it would do that unless my players are pissing me off and need a lesson in strategy and tactics

[LostOne]

Actually, rereading in the book, I'm thinking people have the nano-plague wrong. People on this board seem to have gotten the idea that the nano-plague infects the splicers. The book states flat out it infects metal on the world.

page 11: Heading: "Game Mechanics for Handling the Nanobot Plague"
"The bottom line is this, ALL metal is infected with the nanobot plague and reacts to human contact (exception Technojackers). In fact, it will react ot contact with any mammal - human, ape, dog, cat horse, rat, etc."

So actually, Splicers shouldn't have any problems with the nano-plague if they leave the planet. It's all left behind on the Splicer world in the metal of the robots and technology.

edit: page 11 not page 10, sorry.

[demos606]

Except if you read the section on conversions to and from Splicers you'll see the plague very specifically does infect the humans as well. They nanoplague won't spread from them offplanet but they'll still get fragged handling metal.

[LostOne]

Gotta love the consistency in the editing.

One place it says it's the metal, another place it's the humans.

However, since the rules for the nano-plague specifically say metal...I think I'll go with that.

[demos606]

First mention of game mechanics and the plague (p13) in other dimensions covers both aspects fairly well.

[LostOne]

So they establish the rules on page 11 (not 10 like I posted previously), then they flipflop it because they want the force splicers to stick to their bio-tech gear and not have the remote possibility of branching out or augmenting their arsenal with tech. IMO that should be left as a roleplaying decision. They've grown up their entire life with bio-tech, taught that metal and tech is bad, chances are, they're going to avoid it anyway.

On page 11, metal is infected with the plague. But on page 13, but not if it's environmentally sealed metal from another world like a robot vehicle or power armor. Then it's fine. *rolls eyes*

Clearly the conversion rules for the nano-plague need a bit of rethinking. I wouldn't quote that as how the nano-plague should really work. That looks to me like Big K made some editing changes "for balance reasons" after quickly skimming the book, but without checking his facts.

[demos606]

Trick is, environmentally sealed metal, like robots, only protects the people inside. The people outside can still trigger a reaction from the surface metal of power armors.

[LostOne]

Trick is, environmentally sealed metal, like robots, only protects the people inside. The people outside can still trigger a reaction from the surface metal of power armors.

How exactly is it environmentally sealed against nano-technology? Seriously. I've never seen that explained satisfactorily. The people inside should be totally screwed within X minutes of entering the splicer's until they get out of the vehicle.

[demos606]

The environmental seal keeps out ALL outside materials, even the air supply is self contained. That's why folks coming into the Splicers world are protected from the airbourne nanoplague until they break their environmental seals. This is also why I don't agree with the rules saying FC Borgs are dead within minutes of rifting in - the only fleshy bits that can kill them are environmentally sealed.

[LostOne]

The environmental seal keeps out ALL outside materials

How?

Cuz I doubt it's so environmentally sealed as to keep out nano-tech, which is something that Rifts Earth hasn't had to deal with.

[demos606]

Good enough to handle vacuum or gaseous poisons is good enough for nanotech as long as the air system is self contained - air filter systems might be in trouble though.

[LostOne]

Good enough to handle vacuum or gaseous poisons is good enough for nanotech as long as the air system is self contained - air filter systems might be in trouble though.

But that's the thing. If the nano-plague can live in metal without problems, it can go straight through the hull into the compartment. Unlike air/vacuum/poison gas.

You gotta realize, nano-tech is so small it can move between the molecules of the metal.

[RockJock]

Play it how it fits for your game and group, and leave it at that unless, and until a rule gets handed down to clarify.

[demos606]

Good enough to handle vacuum or gaseous poisons is good enough for nanotech as long as the air system is self contained - air filter systems might be in trouble though.

But that's the thing. If the nano-plague can live in metal without problems, it can go straight through the hull into the compartment. Unlike air/vacuum/poison gas.

You gotta realize, nano-tech is so small it can move between the molecules of the metal.

By what process is Rifts MD material made? Molecular, and perhaps even submolecular, bonding is at least part of the standard process and would limit or eliminate the ability of nanotech to compromise the suits made from such materials.

[LostOne]

By what process is Rifts MD material made? Molecular, and perhaps even submolecular, bonding is at least part of the standard process and would limit or eliminate the ability of nanotech to compromise the suits made from such materials.

The only place I've heard that molecular bonding was used was in the creation of glitterboys, and is supposed to be why GB's have so much more MDC compared to similar power armors the same size, and how it retains it's mirror polish after taking damage. I've never heard of molecular bonding being used for anything else on Rifts Earth.

[RockJock]

Without a practical knowledge of the nannite tech in use, and the Rifts manufacturing, neither of which we have we are all pulling things out of where the sun don't shine.

[Ziggurat the Eternal]

By what process is Rifts MD material made? Molecular, and perhaps even submolecular, bonding is at least part of the standard process and would limit or eliminate the ability of nanotech to compromise the suits made from such materials.

The only place I've heard that molecular bonding was used was in the creation of glitterboys, and is supposed to be why GB's have so much more MDC compared to similar power armors the same size, and how it retains it's mirror polish after taking damage. I've never heard of molecular bonding being used for anything else on Rifts Earth.

Coalition armor is molecularly bonded ceramics, same with Triax, and ARCHIE uses bonded steel.

[Damian Magecraft]

bringing Splicer tech into Rifts (or any other game for that matter) isnt that big a deal for me.
Except for one little niggling thing...
PPE
all living organisms have it.
Host armors are living organisms.
but no where in the notes for conversion is the PPE of a host armor listed.

[LostOne]

bringing Splicer tech into Rifts (or any other game for that matter) isnt that big a deal for me.
Except for one little niggling thing...
PPE
all living organisms have it.
Host armors are living organisms.
but no where in the notes for conversion is the PPE of a host armor listed.

Just use the base 1d6 PPE that most things get. Bio-Tech is not supernatural, most of it. Most things have robotic strength.

[Damian Magecraft]

bringing Splicer tech into Rifts (or any other game for that matter) isnt that big a deal for me.
Except for one little niggling thing...
PPE
all living organisms have it.
Host armors are living organisms.
but no where in the notes for conversion is the PPE of a host armor listed.

Just use the base 1d6 PPE that most things get. Bio-Tech is not supernatural, most of it. Most things have robotic strength.

best conversion for splicers i have used in a Rifts campaign...
host armors as bio-wizardry parasites. used PPE instead of Bio-E as the Energy source.
needless to say the thought of being converted into a bio-borg for the magic users in the party made for a real good reason for them to not want to go to Atlantis...
I have even concidered utilizing that method for some other splicers in Rifts concepts...the PPE of the armor is what it utilizes to "evolve".
actually now that i think about it...
this is probably the best method of determining the PPE of the armor.

[TechnoGothic]

Splicers to Rifts huh...

I'd let the Splicer Bio-technology self-evolve itself as they lvl up due to the high PPE lvls.

[LostOne]

Even if it wasn't molecularly bonded, metal environmental armor would still not directly touch the wearer. Most powered and body armor will have an impermeable plastic or silicon underlayer. In the case of powered armor and robots, this is generally enough distance to not trigger the plague.

Well apparently wearing gloves and/or other protective gear doesn't stop the plague, so I don't see why a very thin layer of plastic/silicon would make a difference. And the pilot is going to be using the controls, which are electronic, which have metal in them. The Nanobots will find a path to the pilot, it might just take longer.

Plus, off of Splicer's, use a Magic Spell. Cause you can do that.

I'm open to suggestions, because I can't remember any spells that would clear a nanoplague infestation from the body.

[runebeo]

Keeping the plague on characters adds great back story for them not to acquire Rifts technology and much like the side effects of super soldiers, this drawback helps keep some extra balance when they travel to other dimensions. We had our Outrider go to the Night Lands and get rid of the plague, but he traveled back to Splicers for upgrades and got the plague back, our GM see this as a necessary thing to keep balance in our Rifts campaign and we had some good stories worked around this. The GM won't allow him anymore trips to the Night Lands and he has grown to like the stories around the him being attacked by common machines and simple utensils.