THE REF AND ZENTRAEDI vs THE MECHANOIDS

[batlchip]

I don't know if this as been talked about before.But who do you think would win in a stand up war between all the Zentraedi,REF/Sentinels and the Mechanoids

[Jockitch74]

Do the REF/Zentraedi get an upgrade like the Mechanoids did in SB2?

If so, REF/Zentraedi...otherwise the Mechanoids

[batlchip]

Untill Kevin brings out a new Robotech book I'd have to say no.

[Killer Cyborg]

I don't know if this as been talked about before.But who do you think would win in a stand up war between all the Zentraedi,REF/Sentinels and the Mechanoids

That would depend on how many were on each side.

[AdmTolval]

I actually have plans for a Robotech rpg that takes place in the year 2085 and during that campaign, the fleet that the players are in meet the Mechanoids.

[Killer Cyborg]

The short answer is that even as listed the REF/Zentraedi destroy them and quite easily.

Once a while ago some friends and I ran a battle pitting the SDF-3 against the Mechanoids invasion of Gideon E. Basically the battle comes down to whether or not the main gun on the SDF-3 could hit the power crystal, given the charge time they only get one shots, and pretty much while improvising it as close as we could by the mechanics it comes down to the success of a single strike roll since even destroying everything in the path of the main beam would not result in crippling damage to something the size of a mother ship otherwise. Beyond that the Mechanoids cut up the SDF with sheer numbers.

Actually, against large targets like planets (and the mechanoid Mothership), the main gun has a specific damage rating.

[Aramanthus]

I remember seeing those stats too. I don't remember exactly what they are, but they were impressive. And if there are REF and Zents together they could concentrate their heavy weapons on the Mechanoids to maybe get a kill on it.

[Killer Cyborg]

I remember seeing those stats too. I don't remember exactly what they are, but they were impressive. And if there are REF and Zents together they could concentrate their heavy weapons on the Mechanoids to maybe get a kill on it.

IIRC, the main gun does millions of damage. Maybe tens of millions.
A mechanoid Mothership has 40 Billion MDC in it's main sector.
If the main guns average 10 million MD per shot, it would take about 4,000 shots to destroy a single mothership.

As I said, it comes down to the numbers.
If the REF/Zent forces have enough ships, sure.
If not, then they don't have much of a chance.

[Killer Cyborg]

The short answer is that even as listed the REF/Zentraedi destroy them and quite easily.

Once a while ago some friends and I ran a battle pitting the SDF-3 against the Mechanoids invasion of Gideon E. Basically the battle comes down to whether or not the main gun on the SDF-3 could hit the power crystal, given the charge time they only get one shots, and pretty much while improvising it as close as we could by the mechanics it comes down to the success of a single strike roll since even destroying everything in the path of the main beam would not result in crippling damage to something the size of a mother ship otherwise. Beyond that the Mechanoids cut up the SDF with sheer numbers.

Actually, against large targets like planets (and the mechanoid Mothership), the main gun has a specific damage rating.

However, also understand that this is not a planet, or a flying continent. It's a giant "hollow" ship. Not a solid ball of rock and planetary crust.

Where firing at a planet would be shooting through a solid object, that's not an accurate comparison to the mother ship. The blast would go straight "through" the ship.

Dude, it's solid enough.

The point is that The Mechanoids just don't have a prayer. They weren't created with something like this in mind, and it was always implied (if you read between the lines) that they would be in trouble if they fought a real space navy as opposed to picking on Colonial Militias and Third World Powers.

If by "read between the lines" you mean "completely make stuff up".

This goes back to some of the "classic" discussions about Phase World Vs. The Mechanoids. The Mechanoids have supposedly conquered five galaxies, but they did it one Kittani like Micro-Empire of a few planets at a time. They never really came up against the full force of a united galaxy arrayed against them before.

Where's it say that?

[Marrowlight]

Considering that one Mechanoid mothership has more troops then the entire population of Zentraedi created by the Robotech Masters, I'd have to go with the Mechaniods.

how big are those motherships?

[Jockitch74]

Considering that one Mechanoid mothership has more troops then the entire population of Zentraedi created by the Robotech Masters, I'd have to go with the Mechaniods.

Really? Some how I doubt that. Dolza's fleet had 4 million warships. Average of about 5000 troops/crew per ship. Thats about 20,000,000,000 troops/crew. Thats not including Breetai's 1 million plus ships

[Killer Cyborg]

Considering that one Mechanoid mothership has more troops then the entire population of Zentraedi created by the Robotech Masters, I'd have to go with the Mechaniods.

how big are those motherships?

BIG.
Holds close to 200 Billion troops, including bots.

From the Mechanoids Trilogy book:
"Main Body: 89,000 km
Total Length: 66,780 km
42,000 km at the widest point
Surface area: 16,400,000 square kilometers
Total Storage Area: 79,840,000 square kilometers"

[Kagashi]

Now that tSC is out...Id tilt in the favor of the REF (now dubbed UEEF).

[Jockitch74]

Now, if it was the Marduk and they had the same numbers as the Zentraedi/Robotech Masters... Marduk would win, hands down.

[FreelancerMar]

With someone bringing up RTSC there is something to be said.

The Mechanoids and the Haydonites could ally with 1 another.

Haydonites are not Bipedal Humanoids.
Mechanoids do not use Protoculture.

Both seem intent on wiping out the Human race.

As for who would win before the TSC was brought into the mix,
id have to go with the Mechanoids. Sheer numbers alone would
seem to give the mechanoids a win even if using RTSC Tech..

As for the Invid, well by going with the Origional Invid Invasion
book (The Old Robotech RPG) take a look at the various stages
of Invid. They are all Biped's and therefore the Mechanoids sworn
Enemy.

As a side note about the Gideon Colony, The mechanoids were
just "Playing/Toying" with the humans. If they were truely serious
about wiping the colony out, the colony would have never knew what hit it.

[batlchip]

Sadly we can't use the Marduke or the UN Spacy from Macross II.As for the Invid I think they would fight on the side of the humans and zents.

[Rallan]

The main problem is that we don't actually know what the Mechanoids can field in a space battle, because almost all the stuff that's been statted in the original game and the Rifts sourcebook has been things you'll encounter on the ground. Presumably they've got a pretty badass space fleet happening (after all, you don't conquer whole galaxies and brush aside federations of spacefaring civilizations without one), but what's actually in that badass fleet remains a mystery.

[Aramanthus]

That will hopefully be answered by Carl Gleba when he does that book after his Minion Wars set of books.

[G]

The mechanoids would win. They were intended to be the ultimate baddies.

If you open "The Mechanoids" (from 1985), you will see that each mothership has 600 Battle Cruisers...stats on page 108 (or p91 from the Trilogy). The battlecruiser is alive, can travel at the speed of light, is 19km long with big guns, psionic powers (which include sixth sense), and has about 200,000 troops.

As for FTL travel & jumping: The mechanoids use psychic teleportation..They can warp a ship anywhere in the same dimension or make many small jumps. They are used to opponents having FTL travel. Some mechanoids have every psionic power and enough isp to choke a horse. Fighting one mothership could quickly turn into fighting all the motherships...or their artificial world the size of a solar system, that would have had countless (planet sized) motherships to defend it at the height of their empire.

All anyone knows is that they just all dissipeared at once. They could still be out there...

[Aramanthus]

A mothership the aize of a solar system would be a very scary ship. Although it would be hard to make it stealthy. And the floatilla of planet sized ships would only add to the panic of a target population. Hope they remain stuck where they are!

[Princedarkstorm]

In a ROBOTECH game I ran ...
A Spider forteress appeared on Cuba where a squadron of RDF and Loyal Zentraedi were battling rogue Zentraedi .The RDF /Loyalists had a scoutship on their side and the co fired the reflex gun on the Mechanoids and created the Cuban Canal .
True story .

[Aramanthus]

That is when you unleash Dahak and his fellow battlespheres against the Mechanoids.

[Kagashi]

Okay, so now that Macross is out...did the Zents get much of a facelift to compete with the Mechanoids?

[Princedarkstorm]

Neutral .

[Aramanthus]

I actually think that Dahak and his fellow battlesphers could actually beat the Mechanoids. It would just take a decent number of them.

[Princedarkstorm]

Everyone have a safe holiday !

[Aramanthus]

I did! Hope everyone made it back since then last week!

As I believe I think Dahak and his fellow Battle sphere could handle the Mechanoids. Something like them could probably kill off those pesky mechanoids.

[Princedarkstorm]

Alive but still not working .

[Aramanthus]

Same here! I hope this economy turns around soon! Good luck to you!

[Princedarkstorm]

I hope things work out fo you as well my friend !

[Aramanthus]

Everyone needs some serious good luck! :::My fingers are crossed for you and I along with everyone else effected my these horrible times.:::

[Princedarkstorm]

Thank you ,My friend and I hope everyone gains good luck and fortune this coming year .

[Aramanthus]

I can use the good luck now!

[Princedarkstorm]

I hope it will be good fortune and luck for you ,My friend !

[Aramanthus]

I'm sure it will. I wonder where you are my friend?

I think that if a mothership comes into the Robotech universe that they had better work with as many races as they can. Maybe if it takes the Mechanoids time to adjust to their new space.

[Princedarkstorm]

Jobhunting .
A very bad case of despair for awhile .
But I am back !
Bring on the dancing girls !

[Aramanthus]

I know what you are going thru! I've been facing the same problems you are. We just need to be strong.

[Princedarkstorm]

True!

[Princedarkstorm]

I know what you are going thru! I've been facing the same problems you are. We just need to be strong.

Thank you ,My friend !