How to stop a Munchkin

[Killer Cyborg]

It's the GM's job to tell the players what kind of characters they can and cannot play.
If they want to play a character that will imbalance things and screw up your adventure, just tell them No.

[AlanGunhouse]

If a Player comes in with pre-generated characters with uncommonly high stats on a regular basis, it is likely he is throwing away his low rolls. Have him roll using your dice under your supervision.

Aside from that, you have the choice as GM of saying to the guy with the power armor, "Look, there are no spare parts for that armor in this part of the world, you can not repair the suit or replace the ammo." That allows the to play the armor, but it slowly degrades over time as damage accrues and eventually the PC will want to buy a new armor that is in better shape.

The Russian Cyborg may face similar repair problems and need to have parts replaces with local versions. This should take away any "Munchkin" problems without killing them.

[Killer Cyborg]

It's the GM's job to tell the players what kind of characters they can and cannot play.
If they want to play a character that will imbalance things and screw up your adventure, just tell them No.

Sorry for the double post

I'm going to try and avoid that which is why I came here for different ways to handle them. I will do that if it comes to it though.

It's Role-Playing.
That means that people are supposed to take on certain roles.
What kind of roles they take on is up to them, but only within the confines of the story being told.
And since you're the one telling the story, it's up for you to judge whether or not the character fits the story.
If the story you want to tell is Lord of the Rings, then they need to understand that the role of a Mecha Pilot simply will not fit.
If the story you want to tell is Casablanca[i], then they need to understand that the role of a Hannibal Lector type psychopath simply will not fit.
If the story you want to tell is [i]The Dirty Dozen, then they need to understand that the role of or a medieval priest simple will not fit.
And so on.

If a player does not understand the connection between characters and story, and does not understand how some characters are simply inappropriate in certain settings and plots, then you simply do not need them as a player.

Just like if an actor auditions for a part in a traditional staging of Hamlet, but insists that Hamlet should get a tommy-gun and only speak Pig Latin.
He can complain all he wants, but long story short he doesn't get the part, and he does not deserve to.

If you want to play one game, and somebody else wants to play a different game, there can't be much room for compromise within the game itself.
If you invite a bunch of friends over to play Monopoly, and one guy insists on trying to use Risk pieces to invade the Monopoly board and capture all the real estate, then he's the one who needs to change his behavior.

If you want to appease him, for some reason, agree to play Risk next time if he'll play Monopoly with you now.

[Captain Shiva]

Keeping things "in area", so to speak, will help keep things on a more even keel. A Russian Cyborg is fine in Russia, but be a little too overpowered for a North American campaign. You mentioned a Holocaust cyborg. That design is only made or used by one War Camp. How did the character acquire it? Is he a member of that camp? Did you read Warlords of Russia before allowing this? I suggest you discourage players from playing characters in books that you do not have access to.
Another way to discourage munchkinism is to adhere to the rules whenever possible, since munchkins often overlook passages that are not to their benefit. And making him roll up his character in your prescence is a very good idea. As far as him complaining when he faces a powerful opponent, tough. What is he, a mutant chicken who became a borg? I do not have any immediate suggestions as to what to do about the power armor guy. if you tell me what type of armor it is, I might be able to help further. One thing I do know though: Telemechanic Paralysis will shut that suit down quickly.

[Steeler49er]

Not to nitpick, but they're Not Munchkins, they're power gamers.
Munchkins are far far worse. They use crud that dunna even exist at times, use lame excuses and arguments to get their way, and failing that, they ruin every ones gaming fun.

Your above examples are Power Players. Although, the one who doesn't show you his rolls may be skirtting that edge.

Examples of Muchkinism; My Borg is 50% Nightspawn with a talent that lets him use magic & psionics. He's a Lvl 17 Earth/Air & Fire/Water Warlock and he's got THREE Sword's Of Atlantis. He owns "two" Isamu Type YF-19 Macross+ Transformable Series No.053 mech, all armed with Anti-Matter planet killers and each has TEN TW modifications!!!<all of which are Spells Of Legend>
-Munchkin-

All of that CAN technically be pulled off legally, but it's all a load that this player really did so...

Your players are just mildly power-gamish. Do what Alan-GH said, get them in situations where Skills (U Know, those things we never actually use) are the only way to get that "Super Niffy" Item that they want. Give the Charm of "3l33t butt kicking" to the Headhunter! Give the others in the group the chance to get just as powerful as the other two, just to balance things out and peturb the othe two.

[Captain Shiva]

Fifty percent Nightspawn(or Bane, perhaps) with a talent that lets him use magic and/or psionics? By what particular convoluted interpretation of the rules could you pull this off? If you can please cite books and page numbers, so I can put this on my GM BLEEP NO!! list. Also, what level would this hypothetical character be?

[AlanGunhouse]

Given that many Russian Demons, which that type of cyborg is built to fight, are vulnerable to Silver, I would not be surprised if a silver arm vibroblade is standard equipment. Not a bad notion, but you might need a different application. There must be creatures out there that have different vulnrablities...

[Captain Shiva]

Given that gold alchemically represents the sun, it makes more sense to me to have vampires and other undead being affected by gold plated weapons, instead of silver.

[AlanGunhouse]

Silver represents purity, something the corrupt can not stand. I think that is the "logic" if there is any behind that weakness.

[Tinker Dragoon]

This message has been moved to the GM's Forum, where the topic is more applicable and appropriate. If you have a problem with how this post was handled please direct all inquires to deific.nmi@gmail.com, including the url to the post in question.

[csyphrett]

Fifty percent Nightspawn(or Bane, perhaps) with a talent that lets him use magic and/or psionics? By what particular convoluted interpretation of the rules could you pull this off? If you can please cite books and page numbers, so I can put this on my GM BLEEP NO!! list. Also, what level would this hypothetical character be?

I think Steeler was being sarcastic. A facade may be able to get bionics but a Nightspawn morphus can never be a borg. Their regeneration would destroy the pieces if applied after transformation, and the two are totally different in every way. You could maybe get a mystic for psionics and magic, but you would never be able to get warlock empowerment out of that.

The equipment is another matter, but no gm would give that up unless he had something bigger in the wings.

As for the original post, a lot of what has been said is dead on the money. It is up to you, Archangel, to decide what equipment is out there, what the surroundings are, and how things go.

If these guys run into something nasty like a Xixitcix Hive, the borg and power armor should expect to be the ones most attacked since they appear to be the most dangerous.
CES

[Spinachcat]

It's Role-Playing.
That means that people are supposed to take on certain roles.
What kind of roles they take on is up to them, but only within the confines of the story being told.
And since you're the one telling the story, it's up for you to judge whether or not the character fits the story.

Absolutely!

It is very challenging to GM any group with vastly divergent power levels. Not every GM is up to that challenge and even those of us who can do it, don't always want that level of stress.

Personally, I do not like taking OCCs out of their areas. I love the South America OCCs but I only run them in SA campaigns where they make the most sense.

Also remember that RPGs are NEVER contests between the GM and players. All conflicts must organic to the world and to the setting. You the GM must never come at the players out of frustration for their character's power. Instead, focus on how the world would logically react to their actions.

When PCs discover escalating bounties on their heads, you can bet their behavior is going to change!

[csyphrett]

1.not really my campains are not as good as they could be because he walks all over my Villans and disrupets my plot.

The only answer for this is the villain that constantly returns.

2.no but abuses the rules big time.

This is where you have to put your foot down. Make the call and say that's it.

3. yes always do

If everyone else is getting along and you are having problems with this one guy, maybe you should cut him.

4.yes and always seeks to turn them into some un fair advantage for him

Again this is where you have to make the call.

5.no. he lacks a good solid back story and a reason for adventuring.

This means he should write you a story.

[Captain Shiva]

1. Sometimes it's good to do this, but I never do... when I run, I'd rather let people play what they wish, rather than to fill a niche. Same goes for when I play. I don't like being pigeonholed into a role I don't particularly wish to play in a given game.

Within limits, yes. The point of using peer pressure is to allow all the players to develop a set of characters they can all have fun playing. I've seen it to many times where a player won't build a character that has any reasonable reason to associate with the others if he makes it on his own. I don't allow someone to dictate what someone else plays, but by having several people voice disapproval to a player during creation, he's much more likely to create a reasonable character in the first place.

4. I do this myself, from time to time, if I come up with a concept for a given character... for instance, when playing a headhunter, I once ignored everything but the bionics/cybernetics, a bit of basic equipment, but worked with my GM to have a lesser rune-sword that inflicted 5d6 MD. It was worked into the campaign in a way that was both fun and a bit mysterious to the other players. It was the only weapon he used, except for is silver-plated retractable vibro-blade.

This is different then making a useless character. But I would drop this character off the list when judging comparing power levels to decide if someone is overpowered. If your comfortable playing a weaker character, so be it, I will (generally) allow it. But if you've done it intentionally, then I won't allow it to effect my judgement of others. And i will get rather POed if you then complain about how effective/powerfull other people are.

5. I'd never do this. Limits player freedom too much, and makes everyone Joe=Bob=Sara.

Sorry, I've dealt far to often with players who whine and cry because their stats aren't as good as Bob's. And Sara is cool with having a different character until she realizes that Joe's characters' total stats are 20 points higher then hers. So everyone starts out with the same numbers to play around with.
It also helps me spot Stat Cheaters.

6. I wouldn't do this either... my most successful parties have been a mix & match, both as player and as GM.

To me, they are the most aggravating parties. Even as a player playing an MDC character, it's aggravating when group members aren't. Pick a power level, and everyone stick to it. You can have diversity in character within a power level.

7. I'm a rules lawyer both as player and GM, but I'm the odd duck as a player, since I point out things to my/the party's detriment as well. As a GM, I tend to help the players learn how and why things work in the rules, and if two rules don't agree with eachother, I pick and use consistently the one which appeals to me/the players. Yes, I do allow a vote on defining ambiguous rules, or deciding which rules to follow if some aren't the same in one book as they are in another.

But most problem rules lawyers don't act to their own or the parties detriment.

8. I wouldn't do this either; I look over what they want to play, and read its Rifts conversions (if any), but to not allow someone to play something simply because you don't want to invest in, say, Heroes Unlimited or Nightbane seems a bit... harsh.

I once had a player (this was in D&D) who wanted to play something exotic, and showed it to me in a book. I wasn't really interested in the book, and the class in question was a bit overpowered on first read thru, but not enough for me to ban it outright. So I let him play it. It quickly developed into a problem, so I went out and bought the book. On an in depth read thru, I discovered/uncovered several things he'd been keeping from me. Next game he was told to get out. I don't like cheaters, and I don't like being lied to. Every since then, I own the book you want something from, or it's a default ban.

Just out of curiousity,what was he playing, and what was he trying to keep from you?

[KillWatch]

1-Be fair, but let them hang themselves
2-Robots don't heal. Quality repairs can be hard to find, trustworthy mechanics even harder.
3-Magnets
4-Even borgs have to sleep
5-Flesh eating diseases suck
6-Poisons are good
7-Hot chicks who dig borgs and mech pilots, but who really don't and only want to bed them and behead them are good too
8-Everybody poops
9-How often do they eat?
10-Even if you can't get to them they must have someone they care about, and it sucks being the most powerful being and yet helpless to keep those you love from dying

[KillWatch]

or don't. Let them win everything and let them wallow in the boring success of being better than everyone and everything. I think scaling up is a bad move because it simply encourages it and you kill the other players while doing so. I think the best ways are the more subtle; disease, drowning, infections, hunger, sleeplessness, IBD, relatives, malfunctioning weapons of doom, 1,000,000 MDC armor that really only has 1,000. To be big bad and buff it takes other people to help you along, from friends who can do things you can't to help you survive, to those who you need to trust and buy things from to make yourself badass. No one gets there alone. We trust that the E-Clips are fully charged, that the clip charger really will charge within an hour, that our guns will never misfire, that the gods will leave us puny humans alone, that we won't be sent into a pocket dimension with no way out, that our mechs won't leak as we are waiting in ambush in a lake which will cause us to drown, etc

The bigger you go the more annoying you may become. When your players realize that you can get them from any angle, and that you can not plan for everything, munchkinism will either learn or keep dying

[drewkitty ~..~]

Rocket to the moon, deep space, sun, phase world(less of a Munchy there), to nuke explosion
or
Portal to (the above and) the astral void (between the shadows), the NB nightlands (if its a equipment based pc then he's up-the-creek), to the bridge over troubled LAVA in Hades (if there is a demon army on said bridge so much the better), to the plain of needles, next to previously mentioned bridge, etc....

[Aaryq]

In my opinion the best way to stop a munchkin/power gamer like you described, it's simple.
1: Tell them exactly how you feel about their gaming.
2: If that doesn't work, like what's been mentioned make parts and repairs impossible to come by
3: If that doesn't work, try to kill them (within the boundries of the rules). To any logical opponent, these two seem to be the most threatening and imposing targets and should be targeted first in any engagement.
4: If that still doesn't work, stop playing with them until they change their ways.
5: ???
6: Profit!

[KillWatch]

In CP2020 you got microwave guns that neutralize cybenetics. You could start making EMP grenades.

Give the big baddies a nemesis, who is bent on their destuction. Losing a lot but slowly learning their faults, fears and vulnerabilities, escaping whenver he gets to like 1/2 SDC with no real progress on the PCs.

Another thing is that PCs and GMs both think in te face to face kind of combat. I'm sure there are SRMs developed that can take out a mech, or even disassemble one and make an adhesive bomb. If they **** off the wrong guy he may go suicidal. Even if the players don't have family, the enemies might, insane grief stricken lovers would gladly sacrifice themselves with a belt nuke to take out the bastards who took the love away.

[Spinachcat]

Every GM must learn how to cast the magic spell called "Power Word No!" and use it at-will whenever necessary. Here's an example:

Hoser Player: I wanna abuse the system!
GM: No.
Hoser Player: I wanna play an uber character who makes no sense in your campaign!
GM: No.
Hoser Player: I wanna disrupt the game repeatedly!
GM: No.
Hoser Player: I wanna come back next week!
GM: No.

If you are having trouble getting a player to articulate their PC's background, then play a game of 20 questions about the background. Legends of the 5 Rings did this extremely well. You don't even need 20, ten questions will give you loads of info.

If a player has not given you a reason why their character is adventuring, ask them "why is your characters going on adventures?" - feel free to say "that's not good enough, give me more" as many times as necessary.

Hoser Player: My reason for adventuring is I like to kill stuff.
GM: No.

No one can use or abuse ANY rule without your permission. Feel free to say "I don't use that rule in my game" at any time. The GM calls the shots 100% of the time. If the player finds a loophole, just houserule the loophole shut.

Hoser Player: Rifter 124 says I can play a Half-Atlantean Capybara CosmoKnight!
GM: No.

Don't marry yourself to your Villains or your Plots. Have plenty of both and let the players muck about the world and have the world react to their actions and inactions. If your Villains are too weak, then give them some tough henchmen.

Hoser Player: Those can't be 12 Mechanoids standing behind the Sorcerer!
GM: Oh yes, they are!

[tmikesecrist3]

I do feel the need to point this out. I usely give the pcs some idea for what kind of campain I am runining, and alow them to play any occ, rcc that fits. or come close to fitting, I am planing. there are times where at first I dont think the occ fits, and ask the pc to explain why he or she thinks it does, or what in there charcter consept makes it fit. Becouse it is always posable that the pc eather thought of something you did not, or has some reasion the think the occ will add something worthwile does that mean I always agreen no, but some times I do... but than I tend to have some good role players, one tends to be a bet of a powergamer, and some tomes borders on munchkin... only thing is he dont argue with me.... and its what he likes... I like more the ordanary person thrusts into extrodary setuations, he likes to be something more...... thow I guess the men of magic I like playing so much are something more....

[Killer Cyborg]

It's the GM's job to tell the players what kind of characters they can and cannot play.
If they want to play a character that will imbalance things and screw up your adventure, just tell them No.

It's easier to say "No" (and have it accepted) if everyone understands the mission statement, the theme of the campaign, or what kind of "TV series" you're gonna play.
Alex

Agreed. You can't just tell people to make whatever characters they want, then nix their ideas.

[tmikesecrist3]

and like I sead make sure you talk to them about why thay think it would fit. thay may have thought of somthing you havent, are see things form a angle you dont....

on that note, if thay think the occ is "cool" than by all meens keep that in mind and let s/he play that occ at a later date in a campain story arch where it would fet, just be consistent and fair.