Doomsday Construct

[MrMom]

If the CS or Triax was about to lose do you think they would use a Doomsday weapon to destroy the earth or at least make it uninhabitable. Also would this work if it was used as a bluff. I.E. Get off my planet or i will destroy it just to keep you from having it?

[rat_bastard]

Both might try to use all of their nuclear and biological weapons in a scorched earth policy, but I don't believe either has the capability.

[taalismn]

The Proseks might go out with a bang if they were trapped in ChiTown, but more likely they'd engage a scorched-earth policy only if they could use it to cover the retreat of an administrative and military core to a safer location to continue the fight...

[DtMK]

Worst case scenario: The CS have heard rumors that the Atlanteans once created a cataclysm, only to stop it by wiping out the majority of magic on the planet. One race is known to absorb it and other energies: the Power Leech. As a show of force, they threaten every D-Bee, mage and evil force to get off the planet before they detonate a warhead based on the genetic structure of the Power Leech, absorbing and releasing ALL the ambient mystic energy on Earth, closing the Rifts and robbing all mages of their main source of power, for creatures of magic, their sustenance. Now THAT is a frightening thought.

[runebeo]

With all the bankruptcies of some big banks and insurance agencies in the last few weeks it makes me think even the mightiest companies or nation can also fall. I don't think theses nations would use a doomsday device willingly because there's still some hope the human race would live on, but can they afford to have their enemies gain control over such device. Now with demons getting endless lives outside of their native realms they wouldn't really care about such a threat. No one should ever have a doomsday device because there's always someone who want to play god or some sick bitter old man who knows he's dying wanting to end world for everyone.

[AlanGunhouse]

Hopefully nobody is ever dumb enough to actually build a Doomsday weapon, because of someone did eventually it would be used.

[glitterboy2098]

i don't think the CS has the capability of building a doomsday device capable of destroying the planet. it's just too big a task. and it would mean that other groups the CS knows are last hopes for humanity (the NGR, columbia, for example) would be destroyed as well.

i could see the CS launching a "middle finger" nuclear strike to wipe places like lazlo, new lazlo, various cities in the magic zone, and maybe places like arzno, off the map if they should fall, but the CS really doesn't have the resources, knowledge, or mentality to wipe out all life on earth. heck, i'd say they lack it even if ther only goal was to wipe out all life in north america.

but it is definately within their power to attempt to cause the collapse of known civilization in north america, subjecting NA to a third dark age. all that requires is devastating the major centers of culture. which with the multitude of nuclear warheads the CS has is easily done. (especially the 576 W88 475kt MIRV's carried in the 48 Trident II SLBM's on the two Ohio class missile subs the CS has...going by the worst case scenario of the max 12 MIRV's per missile...with the largest warheads available to them...) in event of a revenge strike the CS could easily render most of eastern north america an irradiated wasteland.

but the CS would never d that unless it was a last gasp response to total genocide of the CS. since such a strike would mean even CS survivors would die, everyone the CS wanted to conquer dies, magic gets a massive resurge (with perhaps a second cataclysm resulting), and the entire eastern NA is totally unusable for decades...

[kevarin]

thats a scarry thought if you read in aliens unlimited when the riathenors cause the ley lines to erupt on a allready magical plant it took less then 48 hours for the plant to tear its self apart
so if cs nuked for say atlantis all those magical beings die near a nexus point could cause the ley lines to erupt causeing more places and people to be destroyed and the power builds and builds
have to think when the ley lines went off last time there was no magic just got the power from normal people dieing how much more would be released now with major citys of magic and supernatural beings on nexus points it could get ugly fast would hope the cs has thought about things like this and would never set off a nuke near a leyline or a nexus point .

[gaaahhhh]

If the Chi-Town destroyed Lazlo, there would be nothing between the Coalition States and Xiticix Territory. I don't think they really want that (even as a last resort/revenge scenario). They might try to destroy the Federation of Magic, though.

[Dog_O_War]

Hopefully nobody is ever dumb enough to actually build a Doomsday weapon, because of someone did eventually it would be used.

Whoa, bud. Watch who you're calling dumb

And just cause I'd use it, doesn't mean that it'll land on Earth here; I've got a target in mind that'll make me a hero for commiting genocide

Quick question; does anyone know where the Calgary Rift leads?
You know, beyond hell...


Also, (on-topic) Would they use a doomsday device if threatened with extinction? Would you?

I believe they would as it is a very human act; Spite - the most dangerous form of revenge.

[AlanGunhouse]

That is why It is dumb to build it, because it WOULD be used.

[The Galactus Kid]

I would think that with all their genetic knowledge; the Coalition would have released a D-bee killing virus by now. Or at least target a few specific types of D-bee's with genetic/biological warfare.

There was an adventure based around this included with the rifts adventure and GM's screens. It was about a biological agent used to kill Xiticix.

I often wonder why the Coalition or Triax doesn't adapt weapons like those from the Phase World sourcebooks that use singularities and the like.

Because they don't have the technological sophistication to emmulate it.

[slade the sniper]

I don't think the CS would use a doomsday weapon...research it, build one as a secret OR threaten with one that they don't have, yes.

The reason is although the CS is "evil" (by which I mean that a lot of people don't like them, thus the tyranny of the majority makes itself felt), they really do think of themselves as the last stand of humanity. They would do all sorts of backhanded, dirty, murderous things, but having one of the Proseks go and destroy the entire planet...the homeworld they are fighting to protect (and no way off) and kill off the people they are trying to protect (ostensibly) would probably not sit well with the CS...including the scientists that have to build it, the maintainers, the intel guys, or anyone else.

IF the Proseks were to do such a thing...the most likely event would be that they are assassinated as CS loyalists (not Prosek loyalists) seize control of the government OR the device fails to work "for some reason"...ie it is sabotaged by the CS loyalists.

It would be a good adventure hook though

-STS

[DhAkael]

I don't think the CS would use a doomsday weapon...research it, build one as a secret OR threaten with one that they don't have, yes.

The reason is although the CS is "evil" (by which I mean that a lot of people don't like them, thus the tyranny of the majority makes itself felt), they really do think of themselves as the last stand of humanity. They would do all sorts of backhanded, dirty, murderous things, but having one of the Proseks go and destroy the entire planet...the homeworld they are fighting to protect (and no way off) and kill off the people they are trying to protect (ostensibly) would probably not sit well with the CS...including the scientists that have to build it, the maintainers, the intel guys, or anyone else.

IF the Proseks were to do such a thing...the most likely event would be that they are assassinated as CS loyalists (not Prosek loyalists) seize control of the government OR the device fails to work "for some reason"...ie it is sabotaged by the CS loyalists.

It would be a good adventure hook though

-STS

Motion seconded!
I like your thinking.

[Severite]

I personally think they would build one, and keep it secret, for use when all else has failed, the human race is about to be or is destroyed. Because that is all one would be good for, as a final act of vengence, course, I could also see a 'secret' switch installed by a head scientist who is paid very well, which could be activated by a Prosek.

[GlitterKnight]

The problem with doomsday weapons is, yes, who would believe you if you said you had one unless you demonstrated it? Also, I don't think the CS has doomsday weapon capabilities anyway. I'm sure they could play with some looted alien tech and come up with something, maybe like contained black hole or something, just release it and watch everything get sucked into it...right before you do.

To the broader question of whether the Coalition would ever use such a weapon, I don't think it is very likely. They want to protect humanity and take back Earth. Destroying it is counterinuitive. I think though, that if a second Cataclysm occured in which the ley lines raged out of control, and there were demon hordes everywhere, and it was quite obvious it was game over for the human race; somebody would. A last gasp of vengeance against the demon threat; if we die, you die with us, and if we can't have Earth, nobody can. I think that last bit is kind of true for the CS; they're that kind of vindictive.

As for WMD's; there was a Rifter article to that effect, detailing CS BioWarfare units and equipment out of Lone Star. The problem with creating a super plague weapon to wipe earth clean of nonhuman life is manifold. 1) There are a lot of species on Earth, and no virus wide spectrum enough to destroy them all, if creating such a virus were possible. 2) It wouldn't be able to not affect humans, as there are too many near human species on Earth they'd want to kill with it, which makes the likelihood of the virus jumping species very likely. 3) I think that for the CS and the majority of human civilizations on Earth that possess the capability, most are too afraid of such weapons to use them except in the direst of circumstances. People remember it was just such weapons that began the Cataclysm that ended the Golden Age; who wants to be responsible for the next Dark Age? 4) Most supernatural beings are immune to disease, making bio weapons useless against the greatest threat next to the Xiticix in NA.

I remember passage about a rogue Dead Boy officer who smuggled a suit case nuke with him into a mission to a Xiticix hive and detonated it, in vengeance for his family, stirring them all up. The debriefing guys were pissed about it; the CS doesn't want to use it's nuclear arms very much. For the above stated reason, and because nukes and WMDs aren't the ultimate sword in Rifts Earth. Even with conventional weapons and technology, a full blown nuclear exchange would be partially defeated by both sides. That's right; we do have missles that shoot down ICBMs, but the problem is, you can never shoot them all down. Which is why lots of nukes are MIRVs and there are such large nuclear stockpiles; you fire a lot of warheads at the high value targets in order to insure their destruction. What could you do with magic? Teleport nukes away? Back at their launchers? Rift them to hell? That's just the most obvious, brute force magical solutons. All kinds of crazy TW jammers to make their guidance systems and warheads go haywire. Or go for the really dramatic solution; transmute the plutonium into lead. Jeez this is a really terrifying thought actually. I mean, the Black Market sells nuclear arms they scavenge from missle silo ICMBS. One MIRV warhead can hold a dozen bombs. How many nuclear armed kingdoms are there? Wow, that's a fun thought. Little pissant kingdoms buy nukes and obliterate each other. Also, as somebody else mentioned, what kind of magical WMD's can you do? Blow up someone's leylines? Rift WMD's to them? Unleash necromantic power on them that just snuffs everybodies life out? I don't know; the only magic WMD we ever saw really was the one Tolkeen were gonna use against Chi Town in the Siege serial story.

[demos606]

Hopefully nobody is ever dumb enough to actually build a Doomsday weapon, because of someone did eventually it would be used.

Modern history has already proven otherwise thankfully enough.

[GlitterKnight]

I had a cool idea for a race against the clock adventure; a Rogue Scientist from Tolkeen raids his nest egg and everything else he can get his hands on, and buys an old ICBM warhead from the Black Market. He smuggles it into Chi Town with all sorts of really banging tricks, and sets it up to explode and then hires a psychic to Mind Wipe the information from his brain. He did it all himself, so no one else can turn on him (or if he did use anyone, he killed them afterward). He releases the information of what hes done so the CS security tears the city apart looking for the nuke. They find one...and then another. Both real. The terrorist bought a MIRV, so he has a dozen plus warheads, and they don't know how many. Neither does he. How do you solve the crime when the criminal doesn't know how he did it? Maybe the CS turns to, god forbid, a wizard to help them find the nukes? Enter the PCs...