What good is temporal magic?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Not trying to incite a flame war here, but I have always been a little underwhelmed by Temporal Magic. It is held out to be insanely powerful so that only certain gods and very limited classes can dream of having access. From my read of the spells it seems to be a super powerful set of spells for the purpose for infiltration or espionage. and thats it.

if y'all think differently please tell me some other useful broad range applications of the spells and not just "dude with TM I can wrinkle you"

For raw power sure. their strength is in more subtle uses.

Primarly, it's about getting to where people don't want you to, and getting there FAST.

And getting out just as well.

it's not for stand up knockdown dragout fights.

it's for gurrella tactics.

Temporal wizards do NOT simply kick the door down and kiss ass.

They sneak in though a small crack, drop off 12 fusion blocks scattered thoughout the room, use Time Warp: Fast Forward so they phase back in a few moments after the fusion blocks go off sinse they are out of hte space/time continum when they detonated.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Here's a Munchkin/Min/Max version of getting the most out of Temporal Magic.

INSTA-PPE FOR 2+ PROMETHEANS

Promethean RCC from Phase World, don't even have to be magic user OCC
preferably all involved are Promethean Phase Adepts, but don't have to be
Prometheans can learn Temporal Spells in lieu of skills
each Promethean RCC is a master psychic
each takes FOURTH DIMENSIONAL TRANSFORMATION
each has RESTORE PPE (minor healing psi-power)
starting PPE is 3d6x10+PE, so max is 180+30 or 210
starting ISP is 3d4x10+ME, so max is 120+22 or 144
starting ISP for Phase Adept is 1D4x100+ME, so max is 400+22 or 422

Promethean A casts Fourth Dimensional Transformation, needs 350 PPE so he
uses his own 200 + draws the other 150 from his buddy.

Now that he's a 4th Dimensional Being, he has automatic access to 1200 ISP
He then uses RESTORE PPE to turn 600+ ISP into 300+ PPE and gives that to his
buddy. Should still have plenty of ISP left over.

His buddy now casts 4th Dimensional Transformation and now has 1200 ISP and
can restore 300 PPE to his friend. Providing you keep enough PPE to start the
process, you should be able to keep this up for a while, or whenever needed.

Another good spell to choose in addition to 4th Dimension Trans, would be ID SELF,
which lets you summon a duplicate of yourself...

Also, if they're Phase Adepts, they're mind melters and can remove the bad side
effects of the 4th Dimensional Transformation later on.

Mind Melters can Mind Wipe away things, and Mind Bleeders (there's bound to be one around Center someplace) can Mental Block off bad thoughts

Needless to say you don't want to cause trouble for the Promethean Phase Adepts on my version of Center.

Just go to Palladium Fantasy and get a Mind Mage...they have a power that just removies Insanties outright.

[Library Ogre]

Just go to Palladium Fantasy and get a Mind Mage...they have a power that just removies Insanties outright.

which is what the Mind Melter is based off of in Rifts, right ?

if so, then Mind Wipe will be able to do it as well, since it says:

touching his victim's temples to erase whatever he desires. This is done by verbal suggestion and can erase any past event, knowledge, skill, and so on.

So if you're a Promethean, especially a Phase Adept or know Phase Mystics, you're already in the Mind Melter's Club no problem.

No, she's referring to the power "Cure Insanity," which I don't think has made any out of PF appearances.

[Library Ogre]

No, she's referring to the power "Cure Insanity," which I don't think has made any out of PF appearances.

but isn't the Mind Melter just the Rifts equivalent of the Mind Mage ?

I'm sure the PFRPG purists will argue that, but I really don't see them being that much different.

Cures by a Mind Mage can be faster and more effective because
the character can use hypnosis and other psionic abilities to probe and
understand his patient in order to help him. The Mind Mage must be 6th
level or higher. Requires six weeks of therapy with the following results:

As far as "you can't do that!" (mix PFRPG & Rifts) you'd have to be kidding. Rifts (and Palladium in general) is a house rule extravaganza.

Yes, they are. However, trying to fix someone's mental problems with Mind Wipe and Mental Blocks is like try to fix their broken fingers with vicegrips and a hammer... it might work, but unless you are exceptionally careful, you're liable to **** it up.

The power of Cure Insanity will specifically target the insanity, either suppressing it, or, at the permanent cost of 2D6 ISP, removing it entirely.

[Nekira Sudacne]

No, she's referring to the power "Cure Insanity," which I don't think has made any out of PF appearances.

but isn't the Mind Melter just the Rifts equivalent of the Mind Mage ?

I'm sure the PFRPG purists will argue that, but I really don't see them being that much different.

Cures by a Mind Mage can be faster and more effective because
the character can use hypnosis and other psionic abilities to probe and
understand his patient in order to help him. The Mind Mage must be 6th
level or higher. Requires six weeks of therapy with the following results:

As far as "you can't do that!" (mix PFRPG & Rifts) you'd have to be kidding. Rifts (and Palladium in general) is a house rule extravaganza.

NO. Mind mages are better than Mind Melters.

Mind Mages gain 3 Super Psionics AND 2 regular psionics EVERY LEVEL.

[Mouser13]

Temporal wizards also are broken because they get to pick from all level of spells though I would not include spells of legends.

Also S Animation is like the most broken spell I touch you and you are sleep for years? SOunds like a I win, plus you keep all the equipment/armor. Though it is easy to save vs with the +2 to save.

Plus they start at higher levels by default which I know a lot of people do this anyway I almost never do. Even If I person gets into higher level group.

My personal build is pure creation/defense.
Talisman,
Create Scroll, Also allow you to put temporal Spells since their is no current rule that disallows it and the old faq allowed it.
Magical Adren rush.
Invincable armor.
Energy Sphere.
With the new ley-lines rules this is insane like a talisman every when 15 mins that can give 75 M.D.C. per charge at level 3 build.

In general I would have to agree the spells them selfs seem a little weak save for a couple very powerfully almost overpowered spells.
S-Dep, Sus animation, Fourth-Dimensional Trans, Dimensional Pocket.

[Kagashi]

Here's a Munchkin/Min/Max version of getting the most out of Temporal Magic.

INSTA-PPE FOR 2+ PROMETHEANS

Promethean RCC from Phase World, don't even have to be magic user OCC
preferably all involved are Promethean Phase Adepts, but don't have to be
Prometheans can learn Temporal Spells in lieu of skills
each Promethean RCC is a master psychic
each takes FOURTH DIMENSIONAL TRANSFORMATION
each has RESTORE PPE (minor healing psi-power)
starting PPE is 3d6x10+PE, so max is 180+30 or 210
starting ISP is 3d4x10+ME, so max is 120+22 or 144
starting ISP for Phase Adept is 1D4x100+ME, so max is 400+22 or 422

Promethean A casts Fourth Dimensional Transformation, needs 350 PPE so he
uses his own 200 + draws the other 150 from his buddy.

Now that he's a 4th Dimensional Being, he has automatic access to 1200 ISP
He then uses RESTORE PPE to turn 600+ ISP into 300+ PPE and gives that to his
buddy. Should still have plenty of ISP left over.

His buddy now casts 4th Dimensional Transformation and now has 1200 ISP and
can restore 300 PPE to his friend. Providing you keep enough PPE to start the
process, you should be able to keep this up for a while, or whenever needed.

Another good spell to choose in addition to 4th Dimension Trans, would be ID SELF,
which lets you summon a duplicate of yourself...

Also, if they're Phase Adepts, they're mind melters and can remove the bad side
effects of the 4th Dimensional Transformation later on.

Mind Melters can Mind Wipe away things, and Mind Bleeders (there's bound to be one around Center someplace) can Mental Block off bad thoughts

Needless to say you don't want to cause trouble for the Promethean Phase Adepts on my version of Center.

You play Magic the Gathering....dont you?

[asajosh]

Not trying to incite a flame war here, but I have always been a little underwhelmed by Temporal Magic. It is held out to be insanely powerful so that only certain gods and very limited classes can dream of having access. From my read of the spells it seems to be a super powerful set of spells for the purpose for infiltration or espionage. and thats it.

if y'all think differently please tell me some other useful broad range applications of the spells and not just "dude with TM I can wrinkle you"

Specific spells I like:
Time Warp: Age and Slow Down
Good times!

[LostOne]

IMO, S-Dep is the single most useful cripple-your-opponent spell in the books.

Aging also screws them up a lot, but once in a while you'll hit a shapeshifted dragon hatchling with it and then you're contending with an ancient dragon who will pound the pavement with you then use your bones for toothpicks.

I've never seen a temporal wizard that wasn't unbalancingly powerful in the hands of a clever player.

[Marcethus]

I will sum it up. Temporal Wizards, Raiders and Warriors Rock!!!!

That should say it all.

[Mouser13]

My main interest's in ID self. Nothing better than summoning versions of yourself from another dimension and enslaving them.

Or making a 40th level character from multiple summomings and being a 2 year old.

[Marcethus]

TW's can learn spells yes but would a temporal caster teach them the spell? alot of mages (though they use TW devices alot) tend to disdain the TW.

[csbioborg]

TW's can learn spells yes but would a temporal caster teach them the spell? alot of mages (though they use TW devices alot) tend to disdain the TW.

for money or good TW weapons

I'd imagine capitalism is not dead in the Mutliverse

[AlanGunhouse]

At first TW was supposed to be a unique invention of Rifts North America, but it sure seems to have spread a lot

[Marcethus]

Yeah I have noticed that as well Alan.

[Rockwolf66]

My 2 credits...

With the right temporal Magic spell and the help of a techno wizard...


Imagine a Machine Pistol with 4.5 Million Ramjet rounds in the Magazine!

Yeah that's right a virtually never empty Automatic weapon. Just hope you remember to have the host weapon enchanted to be impervious to heat.

[Marcethus]

That is an interesting idea Rockwolf

[LostOne]

Imagine a Machine Pistol with 4.5 Million Ramjet rounds in the Magazine!

Imagine having to reload that magazine.

GM: "Ok, you emerge from your apartment after reloading your magazine and learn that during the time you've been reloading your magazine the CS beat Tolkeen in a major war."

[Rockwolf66]

Yeah I realize that one. I did a few calculations about how much ammo one can get into a 10X10X6 foot area. Yeah I'm useing a modified Demensional envelope to act as the space where the ammo is stored. By some rough calculations you can get about a million 7.62X51mm NATO Rounds into that space. I also calculated that if one used the 6,000 RPM feeding system for a Minigun to reload the magazine it would take you 2.8 hours to reload that magazine. Still besides the dementional envelope and telekinisis I'm not sure what other spells are needed to make such a rather broken magazine for a weapon. Then again with that much ammo one would need magic fireproof gloves and a weapon that's enchanted to be indestructable.

[Glistam]

Perhaps the Create Metal spell could be modified to allow one to "reload" the bullets magically.

[Library Ogre]

Perhaps the Create Metal spell could be modified to allow one to "reload" the bullets magically.

Only if you're dealing with a railgun. Otherwise, you also need a "Create Explosive element" spell.

[LostOne]

Only if you're dealing with a railgun. Otherwise, you also need a "Create Explosive element" spell.

Or some other way to accelerate the ammo...I think telekinesis is pretty common.

[Marcethus]

This is where Temporary time hole would be of major assistance. that or the outer layer of the astral Plane/

[drewkitty ~..~]

What you do is make a Magazine that fits on to the side of a belt fed weapon then store the belts in the "magazine".

[Astral_Explorer]

Dimensional Envelope Clips for those hollywood movie guns that just never seem to run out of ammo.

[AlanGunhouse]

Silly question, can wards make spells permanent, or only other wards?

[Marcethus]

Silly question, can wards make spells permanent, or only other wards?

There is a brief paragraph on that subject in I believe the 1st palladium world book, where it talks about wards. Basically it says you can use the permenance (sp) ward to give a character a spell effect permenantly, but you have to sew the ward into them. after a while it becomes a part of the person and is difficult to remove. Now outside of sewing them into a human body, I can't remember if you can use them to make spells permenant, because I never used that so much. If i'm not mistaken you can, to an extent....
With sewing them into people as far as I remember the only other limitation was that it couldn't be a spell like sub-particle acceleration, but you could use spells like see in magical darkness, etc. The description in the book does a much better job of telling the kind of spells that can be used.

So yes, technically you can do it. The odds I suppose of finding someone willing to sew one into you if you don't know wards or magic is slim to none though. That's why I mostly used it to augment major or main NPC villians: SN strength or speed, etc. And if it gets ripped out of them... man that hurts, and I do believe they have a decent chance of dying, but I'd have to go back and look at the description myself.

IIRC It would have to be a Ward effect linked with the Permanance Ward. I don't think it would work on a spell effect.

[Marcethus]

Silly question, can wards make spells permanent, or only other wards?

There is a brief paragraph on that subject in I believe the 1st palladium world book, where it talks about wards. Basically it says you can use the permenance (sp) ward to give a character a spell effect permenantly, but you have to sew the ward into them. after a while it becomes a part of the person and is difficult to remove. Now outside of sewing them into a human body, I can't remember if you can use them to make spells permenant, because I never used that so much. If i'm not mistaken you can, to an extent....
With sewing them into people as far as I remember the only other limitation was that it couldn't be a spell like sub-particle acceleration, but you could use spells like see in magical darkness, etc. The description in the book does a much better job of telling the kind of spells that can be used.

So yes, technically you can do it. The odds I suppose of finding someone willing to sew one into you if you don't know wards or magic is slim to none though. That's why I mostly used it to augment major or main NPC villians: SN strength or speed, etc. And if it gets ripped out of them... man that hurts, and I do believe they have a decent chance of dying, but I'd have to go back and look at the description myself.

IIRC It would have to be a Ward effect linked with the Permanance Ward. I don't think it would work on a spell effect.

At least with sewing them into people, the paragraph is talking about regular spells because it gives examples of powers that can and can not be instilled and they are all magic spells... I'm about 98% sure of that, mostly because it's been a while since I've looked at it myself, but I'll have to go home and check. Though I'm pretty sure it was talking about spells.

I will have to check as well cuz IIRC it talks about ward effects being what is sewn into the skin with the permanence ward.

[csbioborg]

geez that is ridicoulously powerfull that would make a phase mystic with all the powers cringe