Which PFRPG release was the most disappointing to you?

[Rpgpunk]

Land of the Damned 3

Seriously? The Land of the South Winds (I think... the one with the crystal weapons)
- Came out just before 2nd ed so that made it a 1st ed book
- Has the monty-haul undead slayer (which a player hounded me for, despite my continuous anser of "No!")

I think you are thinking of Island at the Edge of the World, not Land of the South Winds.

[J. Lionheart]

Land of the Damned 3

Seriously? The Land of the South Winds (I think... the one with the crystal weapons)
- Came out just before 2nd ed so that made it a 1st ed book
- Has the monty-haul undead slayer (which a player hounded me for, despite my continuous anser of "No!")

Crystal Weapons were Island at the Edge of the World
Undead Hunters were Yin Sloth Jungles
Undead Slayers are RIFTS: Atlantis

At any rate, I would say original two Northern Wilderness books. As a Wolfen player, I am absolutely sickened by the fact that every bloody adventure in those books assumes completely that the player is a human or human ally, and most of them can't even be run unless that is the case. Nearly all the adventures treat Wolfen as evil monsters (literally, check out the alignments used) and go out of their way to try and get the players to fight against the Empire and slaughter Wolfen. The only saving grace among the adventures is Forest of Broken Wings, which is incredibly cool (though it too requires some slight adjustment for Wolfen/Wolfen Ally players). The information about the empire itself, it's military, tribes, cities, tactics, problems, etc is minimal to non-existant, a issues Wolfen Empire does very little to fix. Every other 'world book' includes detailed city maps of any number of places, new classes specific to the region/races, area-specific monsters, and at least a couple points of note, plus adventures playable by anybody. Wolfen Empire has a couple new monsters and a single map, the backwater town of Wrijin, but nothing on places like Shadowfall, Bataria, Avramstown, or Ironclaw. The adventures remain mostly biased, the tribes remain as unknown as ever, and the military that makes the human world shake remains nothing more than some numbers and titles. The Northern Wilderness books don't live up to the quality of the other titles in the PF library.

[Veknironth]

Well, aside from the non-printed books, I go with Land of the Damned 1. Lots of info about how difficult it is to reach the mountains and how dangerous the terrain is. That just doesn't make for scintillating adventureing - surviving the elements. The 2nd one had alots of stuff in it that was interesting, even though there was no map that had the location of all the places of note in relation to eachother.

-Vek
"I love Bill's stuff, though."

[Reagren Wright]

Mine would have to be Wolfen Empire. I new it was suppost to be a
reprint of Northern Wilderness books, but I thought we'd get just
a bit more detials about the empire. However, all we got was a lot
of leads to Wolfen Wars. I was also hoping for an 2nd edition version
of the radioactive dragon. Mindprancer the rune sword was cooler in
1st edition.

[Guest]

I gotta go with Mount Nimro myself.

[sarcasm]Yay! Giants [/sarcasm]
Reprint, reprint, reprint, reprint, blah.

[Maddog]

Seroiusly? Everyone liked The Eastern Territories book? Released in the middle of all that Bill Coffin-magic it was a heartbreaker! Suddenly a NEW mountian range? Less than a page for Both Phi & Lopan ? Yes Llorn is cool, so is Northholm, but........

[Sentinel]

I was mildly disappointed with Old Ones, mostly because there wasn't that much info on the Old Ones themselves. But the book was good otherwise: maybe just should have had a different name.
I'm guessing that LOD is not a book I need to add to my collection, judging from the posts of disappointment.
I am interested in the books on the Wolfen. Here's hoping they're good.

[Adam of the Old Kingdom]

Island at the edge of the world.
if you are not human or elf the adventure as writen is half useless.
I got it, enjoyed it, but non of my player group was able to bet into the valley witht he Crystal castle a they where "monster" races.
if you ask me the elves are the only true monsters.

but back to the point,
and sort of like the northern wilderness books, but that only effected wolfen.

[Swift-13]

Honestly, I can't say I've found any real problems with Palladium FRPG books. Of course, I tend to steer away from those that are specifically "adventures" such as the quest in Island at the Edge of the World (or whatever). I go for the information on the area (tho' I have been seriously tempted to tac-nuke the entire Crystal Kingdom...). ^_^

[Entiago]

I think the most disapointing would be I sland at the Edge of the World, Mt. Nimero was Ok.

I also think that both the Land of the Damned books were good. Lots o new races and stuff- but my groups never gonna go there, let alone survive if they do now (in the future they'll put up a fight). LOD2 was great with the undead races.

[J. Lionheart]

I'm gonna have to gear my group up to go to LOD--that's like something you do after a dozen minor quests and a decent amount of leveling.

Hehe, if your GM is playing LoD by the books, make that dozen major quests, and a lifetime worth of leveling. A half dozen or so level 15+'s, played by experienced players, equipped with high power magic, and getting some lucky dice rolls ought to be able to just hold their own in the lesser areas (speaking from experience).

[Suicycho]

Mt. Nimro. It is on par with Rifts:England or Africa.

I absolutely LOVED both LOD books, Hinterlands & Eastern Territory. Particularly the LOD books.

[Suicycho]

I'm gonna have to gear my group up to go to LOD--that's like something you do after a dozen minor quests and a decent amount of leveling.

Hehe, if your GM is playing LoD by the books, make that dozen major quests, and a lifetime worth of leveling. A half dozen or so level 15+'s, played by experienced players, equipped with high power magic, and getting some lucky dice rolls ought to be able to just hold their own in the lesser areas (speaking from experience).

My current camapign is just like that. The players had to take a magical artifact to 7 locations around the world (Yin-Sloth jungles, Northern wilderness, Eastern Territory, Mt. Nimro, Balgor Wastelands, Western empire and the Northern Hinterlands) with each location a nexus point that would unlock the next stage of the artifact. Once all 7 were unlocked, the artifact would reveal a passage through the northern mountians into the LOD and the location of a lost hordes of magic and treasure from the chaos wars.

We have been playing this campaign for almost a year, the the players have finally reached the 7'th location in the Hinterlands(the Devils Mark) and will soon be on their way through the northern mountains. The surviving characters are all about 10-11'th level. I'm chomping at the bit to get them through the mountains into the LOD.

[dark brandon]

I loved all the Palladium FRPG books. The one I loved the least (but loved none the less) was old ones. I wish they would have given more info on the old ones and perhaps the time of darkness or whatever it's called and the war that happend.

[acreRake]

Seroiusly? Everyone liked The Eastern Territories book? Released in the middle of all that Bill Coffin-magic it was a heartbreaker! Suddenly a NEW mountian range? Less than a page for Both Phi & Lopan ? Yes Llorn is cool, so is Northholm, but........

Fer Real! I knew i wouldn't care for LoD, but i was so underwhelmed by Eastern T.

(that i didn't buy it )

[Entiago]

Seroiusly? Everyone liked The Eastern Territories book? Released in the middle of all that Bill Coffin-magic it was a heartbreaker! Suddenly a NEW mountian range? Less than a page for Both Phi & Lopan ? Yes Llorn is cool, so is Northholm, but........

Fer Real! I knew i wouldn't care for LoD, but i was so underwhelmed by Eastern T.

(that i didn't buy it )

I think the whole reason they didn't give more on Phi and Lopan was that there has been a SB "upcoming" for those territories for a looooong time now.

Yeah, in this years Super Grab Bag- the cover art for PHI & Lopan was one of the choices.

[Guest]

Seroiusly? Everyone liked The Eastern Territories book? Released in the middle of all that Bill Coffin-magic it was a heartbreaker! Suddenly a NEW mountian range? Less than a page for Both Phi & Lopan ? Yes Llorn is cool, so is Northholm, but........

Actually, the inclusion of Phi and Lopan really bugged me, since they weren't needed (or wanted) in that book. The lack of editing due to LoB's release (and the fact that it modified several items in ET) was also disappointing (especially being told that "ET was written first" in response to bringing up that point...when LoB had already been published). The new races and classes also had a negative impact since they were extraneously bad bits added.

Other than that I've found ET to be useful.


As for the other books.

PF Main Book. Yes I know much of this information is needed to play, but several areas were lacking, and the inclusion of demons and deevils as the monsters of choice was pretty disappointing. Palladium's equipment list didn't impress me either.

Monsters & Animals and Dragons & Gods. Sad in that you pretty much have to have at least one of these books to really play the game. Other than that, they do have useful information.

Old Ones and Island at the Edge of the World I have to give thanks for...since those are the only two books with details on the Old Kingdoms area! (And I love that both printings of Old Ones mention the "Half-orc" brothers living in some small town or other.)

High Seas was fairly useful...though I hated that whole Lemaria island stuff.

Adventures in the Northern Wilderness and Further Adventures in the Northern Wilderness were passable...I found the adventures to be a hit or miss proposition, but the limited regional information was useful.

Yin Sloth Jungles. Another book that was passable...just enough world information to be useful, though I didn't care for some of the new classes in it.

Western Empire. Good book, I just wish it had a better map of the Western Empire.

Baalgor Wasteland...is it just me or did no one else care that there was anything here?

Mt Nimro...Bill's saddest work to date...as I've already stated.

Library of Blethlerad...one of the top 5 PF books out there, packed full of information (some useful, some not, but you can't have everything). Loved it because it actually had more useful world information than Kevin ever put into his fantasy world.

Northern Hinterlands...another fairly useful book...a bit out of the blue though.

Land of the Damned 1...an interesting intro into LOD that had me waiting for more. I really loved the monster creation section, since it really illustrated role-playing differing levels of attributes (with the exception of M.A. sadly). Also, check out the Bill Coffin artwork.

Land of the Damned 2...Fairly disappointing. The lack of maps, the not-quite fitting Elmore cover (PB actually got him, then squandered him ), and the lack of undead in a book touted for it's undead (only four or so of the pseudo-undead in the book actually came across AS undead...the rest were pitiful attempts at trying to make new undead) all served to really drag this book down. On the plus side was the honorable mention we got for posting about his use of nukes in LOD1 and the curses...the chain mail bikini bit wasn't bad either .

[runebeo]

When Palladium Fantasy 2nd Edition can out I loved the new book, but then Dragons & Gods came out with creatures with too much health & power to use them like we use to in our old 80's & 90's campaigns, by giving dragons, gods, demon lords and elementals ten time the amount of hit points from the old edition then adding thousands of S.D.C. to boot. I think three to six times would been better. In the old edition a dragon could be hurt even killed by a small group now you need a army and he can still just teleport away when he gets hurt. My main complaint is that demons, deevils should have gotten a power boost too, not as much as the dragons, but 200 hit points and 300 S.D.C. for most greater demons would make more sense if their going to keep some of the old power levels from the old edition. If the creatures from Dragons & Gods got increased to match their power level in Rifts why didn't everything else get a boost to match?

[Vidynn]

Wolfen Empire

- what we got was not, as promised, the two books on the Northern Wilderness combined and revised, but bits of those plus some new (decent, but not overwhelming) stuff. so now you need 3 books, if you want all the stuff and it's still not a good sourcebook on the Wolfen Empire (compared to Western Empire, for instance).

[UR Leader Hobbes]

The Wolfen Empire is hands down the most disapointing book that is out for the PFRPG. Essentally it's just a revision of the Adventures in teh Northern Wilderness and Further Adventures in the Northern Wilderness.. Minus all of the cool stuff.

They also stuck a really cartooney cover on there instead of the kickass Wolfen Necromancer from the origional.. Also they didn't actually include any of the information on Shadowfall the actual capital of the Wolfen Empire so it's kinda a waste.

Although they did include stuff like the giant beaver and rabbit in there.. But still I much rather have info on Shadowfall and the ohter cities of the empire then just some silly oversized animals.

[Library Ogre]

I have a theory about Wolfen and the Roman influence. I view them as a Germanic/Nordic race naturally, but who have only recently been Romanized. Their base culture... the culture all of them had 75 years ago... is Germanic/Nordic. This is borne out by their technology, especially their sea-faring technology.

However, this changed with the birth of the Empire. For some unknown reason, that Empire took a Romanesque flavor. That means Wolfen who identify with the Empire will tend to dress Roman, adopt Romanesque names, and be much more closely tied to Romanesque cultures. Conservative Wolfen, however, will tend towards Germanic/Nordic names and lifeways.

[Jimbo]

I have a theory about Wolfen and the Roman influence. I view them as a Germanic/Nordic race naturally, but who have only recently been Romanized. Their base culture... the culture all of them had 75 years ago... is Germanic/Nordic. This is borne out by their technology, especially their sea-faring technology.

However, this changed with the birth of the Empire. For some unknown reason, that Empire took a Romanesque flavor. That means Wolfen who identify with the Empire will tend to dress Roman, adopt Romanesque names, and be much more closely tied to Romanesque cultures. Conservative Wolfen, however, will tend towards Germanic/Nordic names and lifeways.

DUH! Why did I never see that before? Until I read your post, I never made the connection. Now it makes all kinds of sense. Thank you.

As for most disappointing PF book, gotta go with Wolfen Empire for many of the reasons mentioned previously.

[Library Ogre]

I have a theory about Wolfen and the Roman influence. I view them as a Germanic/Nordic race naturally, but who have only recently been Romanized. Their base culture... the culture all of them had 75 years ago... is Germanic/Nordic. This is borne out by their technology, especially their sea-faring technology.

However, this changed with the birth of the Empire. For some unknown reason, that Empire took a Romanesque flavor. That means Wolfen who identify with the Empire will tend to dress Roman, adopt Romanesque names, and be much more closely tied to Romanesque cultures. Conservative Wolfen, however, will tend towards Germanic/Nordic names and lifeways.

DUH! Why did I never see that before? Until I read your post, I never made the connection. Now it makes all kinds of sense. Thank you.

As for most disappointing PF book, gotta go with Wolfen Empire for many of the reasons mentioned previously.

Something I wrote a few years ago on the topic.

[Library Ogre]

My BA is in history. Two of my special interests are the Roman Republic and Pre-Christian Scandinavia.

[Jimbo]

Mark Hall, Thank you. Your text has been copied and pasted as a reminder to myself.

jigahus: You could have a campaign of spies from the WE playng both sides of the fence in an attempt to keep both of these potential powerhouses off balance. Lets say a small group of four infiltrators, divided into pairs. Tell the Gromek and Sunder Blackrock that they represent a faction that would like to see the "other side" wiped out. The simplest of things would be to have each pair lead their "allies" on missions that have been set up so that the two warring factions wil encounter one another. Has to look like a chance meeting though. This is a dangerous game we play. This could escalate into supplying both sides with things they need to "defeat the infidels". Imagine the Gromek with a supply of Cyclopian weapons. Now maybe hire a group of mercenaries, plenty of them around. Recruit them from the OK, a stout band of Orc and Ogre bandits, to infiltrate the Kingdom of Giants and wreak havoc. Little do they know their employers are agents of the WE. The possibilities go on forever. All this and more can be had in the Wastelands.

[drewkitty ~..~]

LOD 3

MoM is moving up the list, though if/when it comes out it will be moved off the list

[misterhobbs]

Island on the Edge of the World
- was looking forward to this book immensely, and when I got it, it was a major whiskey-fox-tango

Mt. Nimro
- I liked reading about the giants, but the book was pretty meh

I actually enjoyed the Hinterlands and the LOD books. The non-release of the Old Kingdoms and LOD3 is pretty disappointing as well.

[The Beast]

The Wolfen Empire book. It's easily the worst book ever released by Palladium. Contained zero useful information on the Wolfen Empire if you already had the Adventures in the Northern Wilderness, ruined the adventures in both books, and was hyped up to be much more than it was.

After that, the only book I'm disapointed in is Further Adventures in the Northern Wilderness. The adventures in that one just don't appeal as much as the 1st one's do.

[The Beast]

I just couldn't stand the artwork in Mt. Nimro

How many more books would PB need to do to finish off mapping the PFRPG world? All I could think of is Bizantium, South Winds, Phi & Lopan, the 2 Old Kingdom books. Not sure if Ophid's Grasslands was covered in any of the other books, or how extensively the Great Northern Wilderness was covered.

Then there's the task of updating all other 1st edition to 2nd edition.

Bizantium is in the High Seas book, IIRC Ophid's is covered in part in both Western Empire and Hinterlands.

[Wōdwulf Seaxaning]

This thread is interesting...Since I'm just getting back into PFRPG it could help me decide on what books to give priority to oe do with out.

[The Dark Elf]

Most disappointing Book V - Bruu gar belimar was weak.

Also Wolfen EMpire 2nd Ed. It has all the crap from books IV (which actually isnt much) & V but leaves out the two best adventures and replaces them with stuff a 5 year old could write. Very strong opinion on this so no apologies for the insults.

Btw Island ATEOTW is an awesome book! Not a content book but a great adventure & setting. People who dont like it cant have enough imagination (ok I take that one back).

[OldGeek]

Dragons & Gods

Honestly I want/need information on the religions of the palladium world, their sect, cults, and relationships (which this book barely touches). I don't need stats for beings that nobody can ever kill. Especially stats that are out of balance with themselves (most of these creatures do 5 to 10 times as much damage as playable races, but can handle 50 to 150 times as much at them... ).

That and the SDC + HP of dragon & elementals was put on rifts MDC levels. Course MDC doesn't have AR (which should be factored in with an SDC world)... but hey, it makes converting easier, right?

And anything that talks about wolfen culture, I hate the roman thing. just makes no sense to me at all. Don't get me wrong, I love wolfen as a conceptual idea, but am not a fan of the cultural change. Too radical a change to happen out of the blue (you can see the nordic thing in their ship designs and their more old-school religion).

Won't buy LotD 1 or 2 on the grounds that the area should be a "mystery" and remain that way. People talk about it being awesome, than speak of how high level and magically geared you have to be just to have a shot at surviving??? So a 2 (supposed to be three) part series with info I can make very little to no use of?

The last disappointment isn't confined to one book, but many. The constant mention of rifts. It gives the game a feeling of being "just a series of dimension books." Not a huge thing but it sorta ruins things for me a little. I like rifts (the original core book at any rate), but would prefer it to stay as separate as possible. Confine conversion notes to rifts conversion books!

[Library Ogre]

The MoM manuscript (MoMM? Mysteries of Magic Manuscript, Y'all for MoMMY?) included a fair bit about the various cults.

[Library Ogre]

Since we're at that point of year again, I will again point out that you can request Mysteries of Magic in your grab bags.

You won't get it, but it screams interest.

[OldGeek]

Hey, OldGeek, the 1st edition rule book has lots of good stuff on the religions. Which brings me to my most disappointing book- 2nd edition main book. It lacks the style, layout, content, and inspiration the 1st edition had. (Who needs demons and deevils? I need to know how much a horse costs, not just its food.)

Own it... two copies of it in fact. Was just hoping that a book largely dedicated to the worlds gods would get into it in slightly more detail.

On the topic of first VS second I like both. Definitely have different play styles, and a different feel, but I can't say I enjoyed one more then the other.

The MoM manuscript (MoMM? Mysteries of Magic Manuscript, Y'all for MoMMY?) included a fair bit about the various cults.

It's on my list.

[Entiago]

Since we're at that point of year again, I will again point out that you can request Mysteries of Magic in your grab bags.

You won't get it, but it screams interest.

yeah, I put in for the artwork of the cover in my grabbag.
Even have it on pre order in the catalog- just like LoD3...

[runebeo]

[quote="OldGeek"]Dragons & Gods

Honestly I want/need information on the religions of the palladium world, their sect, cults, and relationships (which this book barely touches). I don't need stats for beings that nobody can ever kill. Especially stats that are out of balance with themselves (most of these creatures do 5 to 10 times as much damage as playable races, but can handle 50 to 150 times as much at them... ).

That and the SDC + HP of dragon & elementals was put on rifts MDC levels. Course MDC doesn't have AR (which should be factored in with an SDC world)... but hey, it makes converting easier, right?

And anything that talks about wolfen culture, I hate the roman thing. just makes no sense to me at all. Don't get me wrong, I love wolfen as a conceptual idea, but am not a fan of the cultural change. Too radical a change to happen out of the blue (you can see the nordic thing in their ship designs and their more old-school religion).

Won't buy LotD 1 or 2 on the grounds that the area should be a "mystery" and remain that way. People talk about it being awesome, than speak of how high level and magically geared you have to be just to have a shot at surviving??? So a 2 (supposed to be three) part series with info I can make very little to no use of?

The last disappointment isn't confined to one book, but many. The constant mention of rifts. It gives the game a feeling of being "just a series of dimension books." Not a huge thing but it sorta ruins things for me a little. I like rifts (the original core book at any rate), but would prefer it to stay as separate as possible. Confine conversion notes to rifts conversion books!




I agree! Dragons & Gods stats were so high that it killed our group's interest in the game. We started playing a few campaigns, but give the dragons lowest possible S.D.C. & hit points. Seems like this book wasn't tested & balanced against a small group and does not match the core book's power level.