A Supreme Being NPC Class.

[twingle93]

Okay, how would you go about creating a Supreme Being in your campaign? I'm not talking about Conversion Book Two: Pantheons of the Megaverse. Those gods were simply supernatural beings with tens of thousands of M.D.C, and were simply immortal with powerful psionic and magic abilities. Those beings are too limited by their own magical knowledge or experience level to qualify.

And yes, despite what RPG publishers think virtually omnipotent characters have their place in games. Take Heroes Unlimited for example. How many times have superheroes had to band together to confront an omnipotent entity? Same thing in sci-fi settings.

My idea is not far-fetched. Remember this is the system that had "Demon Planets", ships with guns powerful enough to blow holes in planets, and we can pretty much assume that the Great Old Ones are around this level.

Myself I used a general "reality manipulation" power and used the Nightlord's control over matter and energy as guidelines. I gave him about 70 abilities taken from spells, psionics, and super-powers that I thought if one possessed all of them, used them in combinations, one could accomplish pretty much any feat. Such abilities were also modified to remove any pesky limitations (for example his powers can manipulate living as well as non-living matter).

And then instead of an experience level based system, I had it based on the Nightlord's ability to expend P.P.E in order to increase an ability's range, duration or damage; if he invested enough P.P.E into the range and damage of an energy bolt, he could destroy the moon. His P.P.E is in the millions, ditto for S.D.C. and Hit Points.

I also gave him attributes like this:
Intelligence: 50.
Mental Endurance: 45.
Mental Affinity: 38.
Physical Strength: 44.
Physical Prowess: 28.
Physical Endurance: 50.
Physical Beauty: 33.
Speed: 2000 (moves at the speed of sound).

Skills and bonuses are so high that his opponents can typically only succeed against him with a natural twenty AND if he rolls a 3 or less.

So are you inspired?

Please post your own ideas for truly powerful godlike beings, as I hope to come up with a general template for such characters. It will be a fun exercise.


No jokes please (The GM simply says "You're dead." or the supreme being thinks about it and it is done) , make serious attempts to define earth-shattering abilities, or come up with attributes that you think could possibly stat out a truly supreme being.

[demos606]

Your stats seem a bit low considering HU has easy access to physical stats in the 50s and beyond. My personal preference is to simply not stat out such beings and handle them more like Chthulu than something to be faced directly.

[drewkitty ~..~]

See RCB2 and PF D&G

[glitterboy2098]

to quote KoDT: "they gave God stats?"
to paraphrase Star trek V: "what does God need with a Character sheet?'
to quote Albert Einstein: "god does not play dice with the universe"

the whole point of a supreme being, a being of omnipotent power, omniscent knowledge, and omnipresent location is that they have no limits. thus they cannot have stats as we understand them.

or to quote Fuzzy knights: "what are all these sideways eights?"


a true supreme being, as opposed to some pantheonic poser, is that the supreme being cannot be defined using game statistics, while a pantheonic poser can.

[Iczer]

I must concur. the things of which you speak do not use them, or it is pointless to use them.

Batts

[twingle93]

I have already gone over these objections and points in my initial post, but I will attempt to address in greater detail.

demos606, the character in question can use his reality manipulation abilities to alter his physical attributes, raising them to higher levels if need be. These stats are simply those of his common physical manifestation.

To drewkitty, RCB2 and PF D&G are nice for ideas, but the deities involved are too weak for my purposes. All of the deities in those books would be hard-pressed to destroy a city, let alone a planet. They aren't truly as one thinks of deities, merely given an illusion of omnipotence.

To glitterboy2098 and Iczer, writing up stats also serves the purpose of visualization for proper roleplaying. I say virtually omnipotent, a sort of in-between state between the weak deities of RCB2 and PF D&G and the undefinable Supreme Beings. Virtually omnipotent characters have been given stats in the past in other RPG systems. I cite the Beyonder in the Classic Marvel Superheroes Adventure "The Secret Wars II," as well the "Infinity Man" in the Champions supplement "Alien Enemies." There is nothing preventing the same treatment of the same kinds of characters in Palladium other than perhaps laziness and a failure of imagination.

What is the motto of Palladium books? "Endless possibilities, limited only the IMAGINATION." My motto is, "if it can be conceptualized, it can be statted out." To say, "I think it's difficult/inappropriate/inadvisable/hard-to-do, therefore it should not be attempted" is a cop-out.

I, myself, attempted the creation of one and I am pleased at the results. It may fall below the reality of having no limits (There are limits only because a RPG has limitations), but the abilities in question are powerful enough to serve the purposes of gameplay, and most importantly, visualization. The only problem might be defining Alignment for a being that is virtually immune to the consequences of his actions and often has incomprehensible, inscrutable actions, but that really depends on what you have in mind for the being in question (Is it malevolent, benevolent, or a childlike entity?).

Other GMs out there probably feel the same way. If your objection to them not having stats is simply that the PCs cannot hope to defeat a godlike entity, then there should not have been stats for Demon Planets either, but looking at Dimension Book 6: The Three Galaxies, there they are. The revised stats for the Great Old Ones haven't been seen yet, but it's only a matter of time. But there have been mega-powerful Alien Intelligences in other books that give clues of just how powerful they could be.

Now please, serious entries and ideas.

[Misfit KotLD]

Ok, if you're talking about what his manifestation can do, you're talking about his avatar, not him personally. In which case, the avatar is probably on the level of a head of pantheon or so. And here's a thought, if you give this being stats, they can kill it.

[Iczer]

To glitterboy2098 and Iczer, writing up stats also serves the purpose of visualization for proper roleplaying.

{snipped for good measure}

Now please, serious entries and ideas.

Actually I was being serious. You waste time and effort statting anything when the word omnipotent (or near onmipotent) is used to describe it.

But if you need to, just get a character sheet for the system in question, and stencil the words 'omnipotent' on the front.

On the back, put down any roleplaying notes (and remember, he has a 88% chance of owning a motor vehicle, that will be 1D6 years old)

You should be putting all that extra pointless labour into your campaign, rather than frittering it away on a bit part omniscient being (because, if he's more than bit part, then it really cramps the players style)

Lastly, when you start introducing these supreme beings, someone is going to ask him questions. You might be better served by answering them ahead of time.

Batts

[twingle93]

Mephisto, the character sheet is around 100 pages, as I decided I had to write a description for each modified power the character possessed. It took a couple years to finally perfect, but I did it. And as I said, supreme beings have been done before in other RPGS; it can be done in Palladium, it just takes imagination and hard work. First read what Palladium did in the books, find the extremes: the Demon Planets, the Macrosses, the Great Old Ones, The Nightlords, and then work from there, to take them to the logical next step.

BTW, I also came up with stats for giant monsters, but that's for another time.

Iczer, if I wasted my time, I wasted my time. Forgive me if I sounded rude, but I dislike arbitrary limitations to the creative process (example "I want to do and so in my campaign world." Answer: "Don't do it. I know best.") But when I was done I finally had an image in mind of this character and could set it in the campaign world. And this character was the supreme being of that campaign world, so everything had to be a reflection of that character. By adding stats, he is ALMOST completely unstoppable, not completely so therefore stats are needed.

Misfit KotLD, well, its the stats of the form he normally takes. Mental attributes stay the same, but the others can be altered through the use of reality manipulation. And for killing it? Doubtful, considering the amount of S.D.C, Hit Points, and regeneration abilities. Unless the PCs can somehow track down a black hole to toss him into or a trigger a supernova.


Okay, next I'm going to post a stats for the Supreme Being character class. It will take a few days.

[Misfit KotLD]

Misfit KotLD, well, its the stats of the form he normally takes. Mental attributes stay the same, but the others can be altered through the use of reality manipulation. And for killing it? Doubtful, considering the amount of S.D.C, Hit Points, and regeneration abilities. Unless the PCs can somehow track down a black hole to toss him into or a trigger a supernova.

Never underestimate the destruction your PCs can bring about. Never.

[KillWatch]

1) Palladium has already outlined these beings as omnipotent. If they want soemthing they succeed in getting it (Period)
2) I felt the descriptions in the conversion books were poorly done and went off reservation. MDC became TDC. Gods of Speed or Strength etc have those attributes at x10+. I removed the body sacrifices requried for the deific powers. I adopted many of the aspects of the Immortal set from D&D which is much more adherent to the ideas of gods for me, creating planetary systems, galaxies, races etc. Multiply PPE Mana Chi by 100. However If appropriate I use the stats in the book as minor avatars for the gods.

[glitterboy2098]

to be honest, i don't even know what you want.

theologically, a supreme being is defined as God. big G. alpha and omega. beginning and end. i am that i am. the three Omni's. ect.

if your looking for semi-phenomenal Nearly cosmic power...thats a god. little g. thor, odin, Ra, ect.

lower on the scale are spirits. nature spirits, angelic beings, demons, ect.

some religions never get past the spirits level. these are usually animistic, attributing spirits to everything and revering them. (example: druids)

others get to the level of gods. these are usually panthemonic, or more than one god. usually there is a host of spirits associated with said belief system. (example: the norse, egyptian, greek pantheons.) sometimes the gods are described as taking human form and walking amoung men. but not often. and when they do they usually try to hide their true powers and form from men.


some get to a supreme being. these are often monotheistic, but there are some that are pantheisitc, but only one supreme being. (zoarasterism, for example) the supreme being is these religions almost never apears directly. he/she/it almost always sends a lesser divine being to interact with mortals. sometimes this is considered an extension of the supreme being (ex. jesus christ), other times it is merely a messenger spirit. (most of the hebrew tradition, zoarasterism, islamic tradition, ect) even if the messenger is considered an extension of the supreme being, it is usually a deific power in a normal mortal human form. when the supreme being makes a direct appearance, it is invariably the end of the world. not the coming of the end times or the herald of the end. but the end.


you seem to just want a more powerful pantheonic god. which is easy. use CB2, and tack on whatever powers you want. most of the gods in CB2 are nigh unkillable due to heir massive mDC and regeneration. taking on say, the Nightlord's matter anipulation abilities would probably be sufficent.

you mention "secret wars II", by which i assume you mean the beyonder. guess what. he wasn't omnipotent. he was just extremely powerful. god, little g.

your mention of infinity man merely proves my point. his character sheet is basically all "infinity". or sideways eights. there is actually little point ot stating him or similar characters out, since they can literally dio anything, with no limits. it would be easier ot just put down "can do anything, with no failure" than to write 100+ pages of stats that say the same thing.

[csbioborg]

Misfit KotLD, well, its the stats of the form he normally takes. Mental attributes stay the same, but the others can be altered through the use of reality manipulation. And for killing it? Doubtful, considering the amount of S.D.C, Hit Points, and regeneration abilities. Unless the PCs can somehow track down a black hole to toss him into or a trigger a supernova.

Never underestimate the destruction your PCs can bring about. Never.

my GM though I couldn't take out a his Slugorth he forgot about something called a several theronuclear device wrapped in a space pocket.

[Misfit KotLD]

Misfit KotLD, well, its the stats of the form he normally takes. Mental attributes stay the same, but the others can be altered through the use of reality manipulation. And for killing it? Doubtful, considering the amount of S.D.C, Hit Points, and regeneration abilities. Unless the PCs can somehow track down a black hole to toss him into or a trigger a supernova.

Never underestimate the destruction your PCs can bring about. Never.

my GM though I couldn't take out a his Slugorth he forgot about something called a several theronuclear device wrapped in a space pocket.

Like I said, never underestimate the destruction PCs can cause. Never.

[twingle93]

UPDATE: Working on it right now, and I am making success.

Despite objections, I think I can do this.

Taking inspiration from character classes in Hero Unlimited (most particularly Immortals), I'll make several templates and possibilities.

All characters roll for one definition of "omnipotent", which could vary to include a version of Nightlord Abilities to having all psionics, to Plot Device option. Most have the option of expending P.P.E to increase

Ditto for omniscience, which range from normal human senses to Plot Device omniscience, as well as immortality. I might come off for one for omnscience, or just assume that they all have a singular form.

There will be optional vulnerabilities: including a mortal body option (which can be killed), special armor which is required to regulate cosmic energies, to a limited duration on reality warping.

If I ever complete, I'll submit to the Rifter.

[Beatmeclever]

OK, now you are going too far. Rolling for 'one definition of "omnipotent",' GET A DICTIONARY!!!

Omnipotent
Main Entry: 1om·nip·o·tent
Pronunciation: \-tənt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin omnipotent-, omnipotens, from omni- + potent-, potens potent
Date: 14th century
1often capitalized : almighty 1
2: having unlimited authority or influence <an omnipotent being>
— om·nip·o·tent·ly adverb

So, you roll d100 and your result is "34" you are the Almighty. Another player rolls, his result is "89" he has unlimited influence. OH MY GOODNESS, THEY CAN BOTH DO ANYTHING!!!!!

"Ditto for omniscience, which range from normal human senses to Plot Device omniscience"?? Omniscience is the quality or state of being omniscient:

omniscient
Main Entry: om·ni·scient
Pronunciation: \-shənt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: New Latin omniscient-, omnisciens, back-formation from Medieval Latin omniscientia
Date: circa 1604
1 : having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight
2 : possessed of universal or complete knowledge
— om·ni·scient·ly adverb

So, again, you roll and this time your result is "12," you have infinite awareness, understanding and insight. Your other player rolls and his result is "67," he posseses complete knowledge.

The idea of a SUPREME being cannot be made to be LESS THAN SUPREME! Otherwise, it is just not supreme.

Supreme
Main Entry: su·preme
Pronunciation: \sə-ˈprēm, sü-\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin supremus, superl. of superus upper — more at superior
Date: 1513
1 : highest in rank or authority <the supreme commander>
2 : highest in degree or quality <supreme endurance in war and in labour — R. W. Emerson>
3 : ultimate , final <the supreme sacrifice>
— su·preme·ly adverb
— su·preme·ness noun

A Supreme Being IS God (as described in the earlier post by Glitterboy2098). Otherwise you are simply describing a very powerful entity. There can be NO God Character Class -- the Game Master IS God!!!

[KillWatch]

so the all fathers and mothers are supreme beings

[Beatmeclever]

so the all fathers and mothers are supreme beings

Only if the authority of those fathers and mothers cannot be surpassed by the authority of any of the others. Can it? I tell you that as long as the government can come in and take your children away because something that was said or done was considered "wrong," fathers and mothers are NOT supreme.

[twingle93]

I come for ideas, and all I get is excuses not to do something, and suggestions to replace what could be an interesting thought-experiment in testing the upper limits of what is definable in the Palladium, and instead I get people that would replace a character class with a paragraph long plot device description.

Tell me, should we start doing that with adventures? Don't write them out---much too work, too much imagination required, too many details, too many possibilities.

Lets throw out character sheets to begin with. No way they could actually describe something.

Lets get rid of campaign worlds. Whole worlds? They're too big. Let's write a paragraph as a guide-line and make it up as it goes along.

Throw out Phase World and the Three Galaxies, because you know a single galaxy in real life in unthinkably enormous, and look, there are THREE of them!

See my point. It's just laziness preventing a supreme being class being made or even conceived of, because it's inconceivable that a definition could be bent. Or perhaps you simply want follow what C.J Carella wrote down one day in Pantheons of the Megaverse because it probably looked good on paper at the time? Have you no imagination of your own?

How many times was say Q, described as omnipotent or omniscient, and yet he was constantly being tricked or losing his powers?

How many times was the Beyonder treated like an moron, and batted around by superheroes?

How many times in sci-fi did we see some average smoe become capable of turning thoughts into reality, and ends up destroying the universe or turning reality into a nightmare?

And they were all called omnipotent!

My point deities in palladium are too weak, omnipotence is a word that is thrown around and can mean different things depending on circumstances (would it make you feel better if I called it Reality Warping?)

OK, now you are going too far. Rolling for 'one definition of "omnipotent",' GET A DICTIONARY!!! A Supreme Being IS God (as described in the earlier post by Glitterboy2098). Otherwise you are simply describing a very powerful entity. There can be NO God Character Class -- the Game Master IS God!!!

Of course, a very powerful entity---hence supreme being, with powers beyond the normal range. And the gods of Rifts are comparatively weak supernatural entities who would be hard-pressed to destroy a city. They don't fit the definition of a god either. Mine will be closer to the reality.

Pantheons of the Megaverse even says that being a god is a con-job anyway.

Another rule that is taught is that Infinity in gameplay is essentially no different than the very large. Does it matter is the PCs are fighting a 100 billion demons, or an infinite number of one.

In this case, omnipotence means can do all that is required.

With this class I can write up Reality Warpers, Great Old Ones, mega-powerful constructs, as well as supreme beings, all under a nice label, with varying degrees of earth-shaking powers---ones far above what passes for gods in Palladium


BTW, there is a Game Master Character Class. It was a joke, obviously, but it's creative fuel.

[Severite]

I come for ideas, and all I get is excuses not to do something, and suggestions to replace what could be an interesting thought-experiment in testing the upper limits of what is definable in the Palladium, and instead I get people that would replace a character class with a paragraph long plot device description.

Tell me, should we start doing that with adventures? Don't write them out---much too work, too much imagination required, too many details, too many possibilities.

Lets throw out character sheets to begin with. No way they could actually describe something.

Lets get rid of campaign worlds. Whole worlds? They're too big. Let's write a paragraph as a guide-line and make it up as it goes along.

See my point. It's just laziness preventing a supreme being class being made or even conceived of, because it's inconceivable that a definition could be bent. Or perhaps you simply want follow what C.J Carella wrote down one day in Pantheons of the Megaverse because it probably looked good on paper at the time? Have you no imagination of your own?

How many times was say Q, described as omnipotent or omniscient, and yet he was constantly being tricked or losing his powers?

How many times was the Beyonder treated like an moron, and batted around by superheroes?

How many times in sci-fi did we see some average smoe become capable of turning thoughts into reality, and ends up destroying the universe or turning reality into a nightmare?

And they were all called omnipotent!

My point deities in palladium are too weak, omnipotence is a word that is thrown around and can mean different things depending on circumstances (would it make you feel better if I called it Reality Warping?)

OK, now you are going too far. Rolling for 'one definition of "omnipotent",' GET A DICTIONARY!!! A Supreme Being IS God (as described in the earlier post by Glitterboy2098). Otherwise you are simply describing a very powerful entity. There can be NO God Character Class -- the Game Master IS God!!!

Of course, a very powerful entity---hence supreme being, with powers beyond the normal range. And the gods of Rifts are comparatively weak supernatural entities who would be hard-pressed to destroy a city. They don't fit the definition of a god either. Mine will be closer to the reality.

Pantheons of the Megaverse even says that being a god is a con-job anyway.

Another rule that is taught is that Infinity in gameplay is essentially no different than the very large. Does it matter is the PCs are fighting a 100 billion demons, or an infinite number of one.

In this case, omnipotence means can do all that is required.

With this class I can write up Reality Warpers, Great Old Ones, mega-powerful constructs, as well as supreme beings, all under a nice label, with varying degrees of earth-shaking powers---ones far above what passes for gods in Palladium


BTW, there is a Game Master Character Class. It was a joke, obviously, but it's creative fuel.

Well, for a slight touch of vindication (if you care about such things), I would be interested in what you have come up with, particularly if you have tables for tailoring such a being, as I am a bit busy to come up with such.

In any case, I normally write out roleplaying notes, and quantify as much of the world as possible, if to give one concrete ideas if nothing else. Its great if you don't have to have such ideas, but some of us are not that smart.

Well, being male, I am rather lacking in the 'busty' department, so I should probably edit it to say busy instead..........

[twingle93]

Well, for a slight touch of vindication (if you care about such things), I would be interested in what you have come up with, particularly if you have tables for tailoring such a being, as I am a bit busty to come up with such.

Thank you.

It will have all the essentials of a character class included.

You won't be disappointed.

[KillWatch]

Destroy a city? How hard is that?
1 Have a god
2 Have deific abilities
3 have a destructive power
4 remove limits

by limits I mean the silly idea of not pumping points into spells or psionics to increase damages. So if a fireball spell costs 35 points, 10,000/35=285x(avg 3d6=9)=2571MD.
Now if you want to go with deific damage capacity as DDC or Tere DC, then add another 0.

If you are a god of fire, I might give you Pyrkinesis, and if you are a 20th level psionic, multiply the Pyrokinesis by 20. We are talking gods here.

But again if you want a supreme being, palladium has already listed how to do this, they can do anything to anyone anywhere. Look in Dragons and Gods.

If you want to make a new class, then add 0's to whatever you wish. It isn't really a question about creativity. 0's solve everything. I mean basic descriptions of many gods is all spells and all psionics. Throw in all chi powers. is 50,000 PPE not enough? How about 5,000,000 (ahh 0's).

Demi Gods: x100
Godlings: x1000
God: x10,000
Greater God: x100,000
All Father: x1,000,000 (real mdc)

It takes not a lot of creativity. To make reality warping and logic breaking beings, remove any concerns for game balance or what if the PC want to take the thing on. Well, they shouldn't be taking on gods in the first place.

But again for great hard outlines on what gods should be able to do pick up the Immortal boxed set or book from D&D. Again, you can create anything, living or inanimate. you create entire races, universes etc, with point values etc.

[Severite]

Destroy a city? How hard is that?
1 Have a god
2 Have deific abilities
3 have a destructive power
4 remove limits

by limits I mean the silly idea of not pumping points into spells or psionics to increase damages. So if a fireball spell costs 35 points, 10,000/35=285x(avg 3d6=9)=2571MD.
Now if you want to go with deific damage capacity as DDC or Tere DC, then add another 0.

If you are a god of fire, I might give you Pyrkinesis, and if you are a 20th level psionic, multiply the Pyrokinesis by 20. We are talking gods here.

But again if you want a supreme being, palladium has already listed how to do this, they can do anything to anyone anywhere. Look in Dragons and Gods.

If you want to make a new class, then add 0's to whatever you wish. It isn't really a question about creativity. 0's solve everything. I mean basic descriptions of many gods is all spells and all psionics. Throw in all chi powers. is 50,000 PPE not enough? How about 5,000,000 (ahh 0's).

Demi Gods: x100
Godlings: x1000
God: x10,000
Greater God: x100,000
All Father: x1,000,000 (real mdc)

It takes not a lot of creativity. To make reality warping and logic breaking beings, remove any concerns for game balance or what if the PC want to take the thing on. Well, they shouldn't be taking on gods in the first place.

But again for great hard outlines on what gods should be able to do pick up the Immortal boxed set or book from D&D. Again, you can create anything, living or inanimate. you create entire races, universes etc, with point values etc.

Which is an idea, which is what he wanted, heh. I would probably come up with something to the effect that 1-?? level spells are instant cast, with a massive + to spell strength, granting certain imunities, giving it lackeys, and anything else that made sense given a particular being abilities that represented him. Seems the easiest way, though again, it would need tweeking, and more thought, to which I dont really have the time.

[glitterboy2098]

I come for ideas, and all I get is excuses not to do something, and suggestions to replace what could be an interesting thought-experiment in testing the upper limits of what is definable in the Palladium, and instead I get people that would replace a character class with a paragraph long plot device description.

if you came for ideas, it was probably a bad idea for you to have already decided what you wanted to do, and to discount everything we've said out of hand.

Tell me, should we start doing that with adventures? Don't write them out---much too work, too much imagination required, too many details, too many possibilities.

actually, 90% of adventures is prose, fluff. Discription not stats. detailing out in detail is just railroading the players. for it to be a game you have to be vague and adapt to the players.

Lets throw out character sheets to begin with. No way they could actually describe something.

"Quick, somebody get him a copy of the Amber RPG!"

Lets get rid of campaign worlds. Whole worlds? They're too big. Let's write a paragraph as a guide-line and make it up as it goes along.

have you ever read a world book? it's 75% description. because their too big to give lots of hard numbers on. you have a few pages of 'guide lines' and your required ot make up the rest as you go along.

Throw out Phase World and the Three Galaxies, because you know a single galaxy in real life in unthinkably enormous, and look, there are THREE of them!

and you'll notice that the phase world books are mostly description, and require you to make up the rest? they don't try to detail the three galaxies down to every grain of sand.

See my point. It's just laziness preventing a supreme being class being made or even conceived of, because it's inconceivable that a definition could be bent. Or perhaps you simply want follow what C.J Carella wrote down one day in Pantheons of the Megaverse because it probably looked good on paper at the time? Have you no imagination of your own?

ok, let's invent a "supreme being OCC"

Class: Supreme being
Attributes:
IQ: infinite
ME: infinite
MA: infinite
PS: infinite
PE: infinite
PP: infinite
PB: infinite
Spd: infinite

PPE: Infinite
ISP: infinite
MDC: PE x Infinity

Skills: knows all possible and impossible skills at Infinity%

powers: can create universe. can manipulate all of reality at will. timeless. deathless. exists at all times and places simultaniously.


ok, the stats are done.

what C.J Carella wrote in Pantheons was absolutely true. a supreme being is so powerful it will never need stats. it will never appear directly. it operates on a level so different from our own mortal span it is literally incomprehensible by mortal minds.

How many times was say Q, described as omnipotent or omniscient, and yet he was constantly being tricked or losing his powers?

you'll also note he is never called this by anyone but himself, and that the only infinite thing about Q was his Ego?

How many times was the Beyonder treated like an moron, and batted around by superheroes?

and yet he always lost. which means he wasn't all powerful.

How many times in sci-fi did we see some average smoe become capable of turning thoughts into reality, and ends up destroying the universe or turning reality into a nightmare?

and yet, aside from the end of Akira, none of those were God. and even in Akira, Tetsuo merely became god of a new universe, not his own.

And they were all called omnipotent!

and they were all called the wrong thing.

i'd like to tell a little story from history.
one day a newsman asked Lincoln why he waited so long to sign the declaration of Emancipation. lincoln answered "How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg."

just because the writer had the character say "i am all powerful" doesn't mean the character really is. frankly, since we are such pathetic creatures, any power we get tends to go right to our heads.

My point deities in palladium are too weak, omnipotence is a word that is thrown around and can mean different things depending on circumstances (would it make you feel better if I called it Reality Warping?)

palladium's stats for dieties too weak? dear god man, what book have you been reading? they have hundreds of thousands of MD. they can kill cities with one blast. they know all magic and usually have additional powers besides! you can't even kill them, they just vanish from the dimension to show up later somewhere else!

OK, now you are going too far. Rolling for 'one definition of "omnipotent",' GET A DICTIONARY!!! A Supreme Being IS God (as described in the earlier post by Glitterboy2098). Otherwise you are simply describing a very powerful entity. There can be NO God Character Class -- the Game Master IS God!!!

Of course, a very powerful entity---hence supreme being, with powers beyond the normal range. And the gods of Rifts are comparatively weak supernatural entities who would be hard-pressed to destroy a city. They don't fit the definition of a god either. Mine will be closer to the reality.

actually, the pantheons in pantheons do fit the designation of god. little g.
the supreme being, as described in pantheons, fits the description ofGod, big g.

Pantheons of the Megaverse even says that being a god is a con-job anyway.

actually, it says pantheons get more powerful based on the number of worshippers they have. aside from the one section on supreme beings/God, he doesn't cover the almighty.

Another rule that is taught is that Infinity in gameplay is essentially no different than the very large. Does it matter is the PCs are fighting a 100 billion demons, or an infinite number of one.

Infinity = never ending. and there is a differance between fighting a hundred billion of something and an infinte number of them. if it's just a hundred billion, you can eventually kill all of them. if it is infinite, they will never run out.

infifity is just another big number? thats like saying a nuclear weapon is just another bomb.

In this case, omnipotence means can do all that is required.

at which point there is no roleplay. "oh no, Dr. Demntoid is holding the city ransom with his super-duper-frazzleray!" *snaps fingers* "ok, he never existed in the first place. who wants lucnh?"

With this class I can write up Reality Warpers, Great Old Ones, mega-powerful constructs, as well as supreme beings, all under a nice label, with varying degrees of earth-shaking powers---ones far above what passes for gods in Palladium

actually, palladium classifies reality warpers, and great old ones and mega-powerful anythings as gods, or sometimes Alien intellegences, which are basically the same thing. supreme beings are defined as God, is in the almight, i am that i am, ect.

BTW, there is a Game Master Character Class. It was a joke, obviously, but it's creative fuel.

and it had near infinite powers that totally screwed up the game. best it stays a joke.

[Misfit KotLD]

Glitterboy2098, ever play OWoD? In my high school days (over fifteen years ago), we played it a lot. And the book covered what happens if the PCs take on a second or third generation vampire. "The party looses." That was it. No rolling, nothing but the ancient vampire wins.

[glitterboy2098]

Glitterboy2098, ever play OWoD? In my high school days (over fifteen years ago), we played it a lot. And the book covered what happens if the PCs take on a second or third generation vampire. "The party looses." That was it. No rolling, nothing but the ancient vampire wins.

the only WoD stuff i did was a rather poorly run and highly munchkinistic LARP back in 2002. when most of the players had been involved for years and pressured the storyteller to let them keep their long running characters through several campaigns (regardless of timeperiod), the newer characters (like my technomage...i was on a babylon 5 kick then) just couldn't really survive. then again, the Storyteller had a greater demon serving as a bouncer for his character's club...

so yes, i understand the principle of "if you face this character, you will die. period" well enough. i still remember pulling recon duty for that Hunter assualt on the club. when the rocket launchers got pulled out of thin air (don't ask) and started shooting at our hijacked gasoline tanker was nothing compared to what happened after the long running characters decided to strike back....

[KillWatch]

The gaem stats for the Beyonder were literally the best in the MSH game. In the upper eschelon there were CL 1000,3000,5000 and finally Class B=Beyond which means anything the being wants to do with whatever has this rank automatically succeeds. Beyonder had this in everything, had all power etc.

As for Q, I think he limited himself to keep from being bored. If he knew what was going to happen then existence would be boring. He could go anywhere, do anything, etc. I think the boring things applies to the Beyonder to. He limited himself to keep life interesting.

As for gods, I think that omnipotence only applies if you are the only only one. You exist outside of it and you may be able to see what will/might happen, but the certainty goes away with the introduction of other gods.

I think the multi god therum explains why bad things happen. Gods acting against gods, making the universe seem chaotic, but is a deific chess game of action/counter. It explains why "god" would allow bad things to happen to good people. Of course other explanations might be a distant-dispassionate god/s, or a godless universe

[Beatmeclever]

And yet, the Beyonder was out-smarted by Dr. Doom into allowing Doom to steal his powers and Q is forever out-smarted, tricked into, or logically convinced to put things back where (or how) they were?

The Beyonder was a fledgling Cosmic Cube. He was never intended to have the level of power he had. It was a fluke in Space-Time that allowed the amplification of his power. He was not a god (or a God), Space-Time (mathematical reality) was the "God" there.

Q is incredibly powerful, but only as smart as an average human. Picard, Riker, Sisko, AND Janeway all outsmart or logically convince him that he needs to put things right multiple times. The entire secret about Star Trek is that it is intended to show us that the "Human Spirit" is all-powerful and unbeatable. WE are the "GOD" in Star Trek!

I'm just trying to emphasize this point here -- The Almighty, as the Judeo-Christian faith propose, does not exist in those universes.

A couple of posts above we are given the most accurate Statistics for a Supreme Being that could be given. All infinite. God, the Supreme Being, works from a level beyond any reasoning, a level that is inconcivable by man. None of the beings that could be created to satisfy Twingle98's request could be anything close to this -- not a Supreme Being. Maybe the request should simply be for an "Ultra-God" or Super-God;" this probably wouldn't ave gotten the same kind of response.

Twingle98, I'm happy for you that you have created such an amazing being in your gaming world, but please don't assume that all of us here should accept that God is anything near as weak as a being would have to be in ordr to be brought into a gaming world in the first place, or that anything that could be beaten by Player Characters could be a Supreme Being.

[Dog_O_War]

Blah blah blah, I got bored reading post after post of obstinate, arbitrary, and non-contributive responses, or how the OP is wrong for wanting to define something for a game, even if that definition didn't match the one in the dictionary.

I mean was it seriously that tough to offer some constructive dialogue, or was thinking around the word "omnipotent" too difficult?


Anyways, context - a supreme being for a game needs a context. If this is supposed to represent the various universal truths (life, death, order, chaos, fate, chance, etc...), then you want massively high ability scores - like a minimum of 1000. For a more generally believeable Super-Being, somewhere in the realm of 100's is best; this offers that some creatures can rival this being in certain aspects, but it otherwise puts a more literal term "supreme-being" on this class. What I mean by this is that this RCC is the best in everything, though it may have rivals in one or more stats.

For example, the generic SB might have "average" scores of 100 straight across the board. A hero from an HU setting might then have a strength of 100SN - a stat that rivals the SB. They might say that he's got "godly strength", which is true. His other stats don't come close though. From here you might have a range, typically 90-900 for a supreme being; the stats go up or down depending on where they hail from, what aspects of reality they are most closely tied to, or however else you wish to govern it.

Always have a context though, as well as a comparison. For example, if within the rules of Rifts you have people making characters with strength scores of 100, and you still want demon-lords, gods, and alien-entities to be stronger (maybe 150-200), then you need to have the supreme beings' strength score be at a minimum of this.

For skills I would pick a focus set - say one SB is a master-technologist - and have those skills at a rating of auto. Meanwhile most of his other skills would be in the 98% range - leaving only fate and chance to dictate a failure. Perhaps have an arbitrary system set up so that any being with a skill-score of 98%+100 able to rival their "auto-skills" - this means that while in the presence of this kind of rival, their auto-skill becomes 98%.

[Grandil]

Your stats seem a bit low considering HU has easy access to physical stats in the 50s and beyond. My personal preference is to simply not stat out such beings and handle them more like Chthulu than something to be faced directly.

Ditto.. although Odin vs. Cthulhu would be some awesome pay per view.

Call of Cthulhu IS now a Movie-Google it, Evil. BTW-take a look at my pic..... Its what is called a Mini-Bane from Rifter, not
sure the #.

[Grandil]

Blah blah blah, I got bored reading post after post of obstinate, arbitrary, and non-contributive responses, or how the OP is wrong for wanting to define something for a game, even if that definition didn't match the one in the dictionary.

I mean was it seriously that tough to offer some constructive dialogue, or was thinking around the word "omnipotent" too difficult?


Anyways, context - a supreme being for a game needs a context. If this is supposed to represent the various universal truths (life, death, order, chaos, fate, chance, etc...), then you want massively high ability scores - like a minimum of 1000. For a more generally believeable Super-Being, somewhere in the realm of 100's is best; this offers that some creatures can rival this being in certain aspects, but it otherwise puts a more literal term "supreme-being" on this class. What I mean by this is that this RCC is the best in everything, though it may have rivals in one or more stats.

For example, the generic SB might have "average" scores of 100 straight across the board. A hero from an HU setting might then have a strength of 100SN - a stat that rivals the SB. They might say that he's got "godly strength", which is true. His other stats don't come close though. From here you might have a range, typically 90-900 for a supreme being; the stats go up or down depending on where they hail from, what aspects of reality they are most closely tied to, or however else you wish to govern it.

Always have a context though, as well as a comparison. For example, if within the rules of Rifts you have people making characters with strength scores of 100, and you still want demon-lords, gods, and alien-entities to be stronger (maybe 150-200), then you need to have the supreme beings' strength score be at a minimum of this.

For skills I would pick a focus set - say one SB is a master-technologist - and have those skills at a rating of auto. Meanwhile most of his other skills would be in the 98% range - leaving only fate and chance to dictate a failure. Perhaps have an arbitrary system set up so that any being with a skill-score of 98%+100 able to rival their "auto-skills" - this means that while in the presence of this kind of rival, their auto-skill becomes 98%.

I generally agree with most of this.
Stats like ME-100 (+8 vs. Psychic, +13 vs. Insanity, 100% vs. Coma/Death in Cyberspace, 100% Meditation Skill from Mystic
China) MA-35 (120% Trust/intimidate) PE-100 (+8 vs. Magic, & Poison, 100% vs. Coma/Death; [this is good when going to
Yggdrasil]) & PB-40 (120% Charm/impress) DO have limits. I agree with ya Dog, on how frustrating it is to get good
Munchkin stats Down. PPL have real problems with it. All other stats are basically unlimited-IQ, SPS, PP, & Speed. Please ask
me what I think-there's more to this. This is Similitude, Guys, NOT Reality-Dont take it so seriously

[Lenwen]

I've never bothered statting out beings on this lvl , Course I've never had to USE a being on this lvl .
If I ever did use a being on this lvl it would be for something of a cosmic lvl that would be on the lvl of say the Dominators time Traveled picking up several Mechanoid motherships along the way and teleporting to Hades and Deeval to port out with half of both dimensions contents ( demon wise ) while bringing along several trillion Xitixic bugs that happened to be in the neck of the woods of the 100% Combined power of the Apocolypse Demon god entity an they simply rifted onto say Phase world .

At that stage of the game is where this lvl of being would come into play an simply put he would take the PC's talk to them and show them the error of thier ways ( if they allowed this to happen or couldent stop it ) and simply snap his fingers an put all right in the megaverse again .

And obviously the only people who would know of the aformentioned megaverse train wreck would be the PC's .

No stats needed simply proof enough that it is there .

[Grandil]

Okay, how would you go about creating a Supreme Being in your campaign? I'm not talking about Conversion Book Two: Pantheons of the Megaverse. Those gods were simply supernatural beings with tens of thousands of M.D.C, and were simply immortal with powerful psionic and magic abilities. Those beings are too limited by their own magical knowledge or experience level to qualify.

And yes, despite what RPG publishers think virtually omnipotent characters have their place in games. Take Heroes Unlimited for example. How many times have superheroes had to band together to confront an omnipotent entity? Same thing in sci-fi settings.

My idea is not far-fetched. Remember this is the system that had "Demon Planets", ships with guns powerful enough to blow holes in planets, and we can pretty much assume that the Great Old Ones are around this level.

Myself I used a general "reality manipulation" power and used the Nightlord's control over matter and energy as guidelines. I gave him about 70 abilities taken from spells, psionics, and super-powers that I thought if one possessed all of them, used them in combinations, one could accomplish pretty much any feat. Such abilities were also modified to remove any pesky limitations (for example his powers can manipulate living as well as non-living matter).

And then instead of an experience level based system, I had it based on the Nightlord's ability to expend P.P.E in order to increase an ability's range, duration or damage; if he invested enough P.P.E into the range and damage of an energy bolt, he could destroy the moon. His P.P.E is in the millions, ditto for S.D.C. and Hit Points.

I also gave him attributes like this:
Intelligence: 50.
Mental Endurance: 45.
Mental Affinity: 38.
Physical Strength: 44.
Physical Prowess: 28.
Physical Endurance: 50.
Physical Beauty: 33.
Speed: 2000 (moves at the speed of sound).

Skills and bonuses are so high that his opponents can typically only succeed against him with a natural twenty AND if he rolls a 3 or less.

So are you inspired?

Please post your own ideas for truly powerful godlike beings, as I hope to come up with a general template for such characters. It will be a fun exercise.


No jokes please (The GM simply says "You're dead." or the supreme being thinks about it and it is done) , make serious attempts to define earth-shattering abilities, or come up with attributes that you think could possibly stat out a truly supreme being.

This is what Twingle is Talking about-Putting definable limits on what I call a Gawd. not those whimps
in Pantheons!

[Grandil]

I've never bothered statting out beings on this lvl , Course I've never had to USE a being on this lvl .
If I ever did use a being on this lvl it would be for something of a cosmic lvl that would be on the lvl of say the Dominators time Traveled picking up several Mechanoid motherships along the way and teleporting to Hades and Deeval to port out with half of both dimensions contents ( demon wise ) while bringing along several trillion Xitixic bugs that happened to be in the neck of the woods of the 100% Combined power of the Apocolypse Demon god entity an they simply rifted onto say Phase world .

At that stage of the game is where this lvl of being would come into play an simply put he would take the PC's talk to them and show them the error of thier ways ( if they allowed this to happen or couldent stop it ) and simply snap his fingers an put all right in the megaverse again .

And obviously the only people who would know of the aformentioned megaverse train wreck would be the PC's .

No stats needed simply proof enough that it is there .

Of course if you had PC's with truly High stats, but then go
ahead limit yourself. I generally play with higher than god-like stats, & this is a forum for an exchange of Ideas, not a
railroading, critically thoughtless simulation. Besides, twingle needs SOME limitations so it can be played, not necessarily
playable!